New AC MkVI Gullwing

[MkIV Lux]

Difference between all these very good expensive replicars (Kirkham – closest to the original, Superformance, Gardner Douglas, Dax, CN – German variation based on Dax Supertube, Hawk, Mohr etc) and the ACs, up to the Mk V, is that the former are replicars, whereas the latter are cars that were engineered and manufactured by a company called AC. Look through the range of cars represented in the ACOC. Up to the Mk V (not yet listed), last and only car beyond the Brooklands Ace, they were produced in a factory run by AC. The Mk V bodywise is an evolution of the 212 S/C. Even the Malta venture however small it was, was a factory owned and run by AC people. Doing engineering, getting successful homologation for market introduction, manufacturing and assembling etc. Even if the few Mk Vs turned out were not totally sorted and work had to be carried out by the distributor before they could be sold.
   
   The Mk VI Gullwing is a completely different story: take an existing good replicar based on the Dax Supertube chassis, which over years has evolved into its latest Mohr variation, the Gullwing venture adding the specific hardtop, make a deal with its producer for rebranding by simply replacing the car’s badges, run an aggressive info campaign by putting the car under the butt of a number of key journalists and make the world believe that this is the new evolutive AC Cobra. Yes it is sold as an AC . People owning the company and the right to the name can do whatever they like.
   The market reality will tell whether the car is accepted by customers.
   What we at the ACOC have to make our minds up on  is whether or not we will accept this car as an AC. I don’t  know enough about the club’s bylaws to make a statement on this, but personally I would be disappointed if such rebranded replicar would be regarded an AC as much as the Mk IV & Superblower, Brooklands Ace,  Mk IV CRS, 212 S/C, Mk V.
   This is an ACOC Forum – and I know it is open to non-ACOC members, so there may be quite different views on this.
   
   Constant/ACOC member since 2002

[Chafford]

quote:Originally posted by Trevor Legate
   
Michael
   
   
   BUT the Gardner Douglas shown above is an equally interesting variation on the Cobra theme. I don't think of it as Cobra, just a very nice sports car in its own right, the ideal tool for blatting across Europe in a degree of comfort while returning circa 30mpg from its unstressed 6-litre engine. What's not to like? It just echoes the classic coke-bottle shape of the Cobra but has taken its own branch on the tree of Cobra evolution. And for around half the price of a certain 'competitor'!?
   

   
   And they even do a version based on the MkIV shape - taken from a real MkIV I believe!
   
   My only gripe with the MKVI is that for £93,500 you would expect the shape to be spot-on - the DAX based shape has lost the original curves.
   
   As to whether the MkVI should be accepted as an AC, if Mr Mohr is an AC enthusiast and his car is built to high standards then I can't see any reason for excluding it. The 'Octane' article suggests the car is built with real care and to a high standard.

[nikbj68]

That`s Exactly how I see it, too...
   It`s very hard to see how AC Cars can make this statement in their official press release: "The AC MkVI, a faithful recreation of the ultimate sports car icon - the AC Cobra, is now being produced in Germany for worldwide sales...says Alan Lubinsky. “Why would anyone buy a replica when they can own an authentic AC roadster that is lighter and better and has been engineered and built to such demanding standards?” "
   
   Ironically, even the press release for the MkVI is a replica, with only minor tweaks (such as substituting the name of Doug Hasty with Jurgen Mohr and the model change from 'V' to 'VI') to tell it apart from the press release for the MkV in April 2006(April the first?![)]).
   
   Constant, I appreciate that you had your Mohr Cobra several years ago, but how does it differ from the MkVI, for example, is the interior very different?

[TLegate]

Everybody will have his or her own take on the situation and the only thing we can agree on is that everyone will probably disagree. For me, if it looks like a Dax, smells like a Dax and quacks like a Dax...it's probably not an AC!
   
   And in all seriousness, the fact that the title on the cover of the current issue of Autocar states "New AC Cobra" would have me diving for cover in case that ever lands on a lawyers desk in Dearborn. The Cobra name was not removed from AC's ownership before the 25-year agreement had expired for nothing - the legal eagles obviously read the terms under which AC was purchased from Price Waterhouse in 1996 (and that's another issue...) Even the use of the word 'Cobra' on the current website treads a fine line (association by implication?) Whaddever, not my problem.

[MkIV Lux]

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   
That`s Exactly how I see it, too...
   .....
   
   Constant, I appreciate that you had your Mohr Cobra several years ago, but how does it differ from the MkVI, for example, is the interior very different?
   

   
   Nick, I assume you refer in your first sentence to my statement, not to Chafford's?
   
   My Mohr Cobra was a car from the 90'ies. Already at the time they were Dax based. Good solid car but nothing in comparison to the Mk IV.
   Body and cockpit wise these cars have not changed much. Just look at replica sites and compare Dax, Mohr, Mk VI Gullwing. They have since certainly evolved in matters of chassis and suspension. From my experience of driving other replicas in 2001, some had superior handling, I would even pretend superior to the Mk IV's. And since 2001 another 8 years have passed, so other upgrades may have been included. Look at the Dax site. They have some interesting suspension features. One of the better handling cars in the 90ies was the Contemporary, using E-Type front and rear suspension elements. They had very limited appearance though in Europe.
   
   The Mk IV is essentially a 1982 car with basic chassis design from the 60ies. And that's part of its attraction, for me.
   
   However good a Dax, Mohr, CN, Superformance... you name them may be today, for me putting an AC badge on them does not make them an AC.

[nikbj68]

quote:Originally posted by MkIV Lux...Nick, I assume you refer in your first sentence to my statement...Just look at replica sites and compare Dax, Mohr, Mk VI Gullwing...However good a Dax, Mohr, CN, Superformance... you name them may be today, for me putting an AC badge on them does not make them an AC.
   

   Yes, Constant, I was agreeing with you, Mr.Chafford posted whilst I was writing! (I type very slowly!) []
   
   It is not easy finding information on the Mohr replicas, but I admit my research has been less than exhaustive.
   
   As Trevor says, it is a debate that will rumble on for a long time to come, but I trust none of us will fall out over our differences!!![]

[Chafford]

quote:Originally posted by Trevor Legate
    Even the use of the word 'Cobra' on the current website treads a fine line (association by implication?)

   
   But presumably OK to describe ACs originally sold as 'Cobras' as such - i.e. the original 60s cars and (some)MkIVs.

[nikbj68]

AC may be able to describe themselves as manufacturers of the original Cobra, but not being licensed to use the name now, could be open to litigation for describing the MkVI here as: "...an open-top sports car based on the design of the Le Mans winning AC Cobra with many of the original car's characteristics while incorporating modern technology. The cars are not imitations - they are new generation of AC Cobra incorporating relevant advanced technology." [B)]
   And which AC Cobra upon which this (and the MkV before it) is based, won Le Mans??? [B)][V]
   Shelby took Factory Five to court, because the metatags in their website(which are not visible on the page,)would direct someone 'googling' "Shelby", "Cobra", "427" or "S/C" to their website, I don`t recall the result. Maybe there isn`t one yet.
   Also, many replica manufacturers can`t refer to "AC" or "Cobra" cars in any context, even historic... simply refering to 'the original cars fom the sixties' or similar.

[MkIV Lux]

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   ...... The cars are not imitations - they are new generation of AC Cobra incorporating relevant advanced technology.[/i]" [B)]
   ...

   
   Interestingly this ad makes no direct association between the name "Cobra" and the "AC Mk VI". The above statement may well be read as "new generation of (the former) AC Cobra".
   Mr Lubinsky is certainly smart enough to leave this association to the journalists. And they of course have done it.

[Gus Meyjes]

The factory five suit was settled. Factory five was allowed to use the cobra "dress" IE the body shape, but not the name. Hence came a big sigh in the world of replica/kit manufacturers, because if Shelby could still claim ownership of the trade dress, he would have gone after everybody else. The Superformance "continuation" shelby was born out of this. Superformance settled with Shelby by agreeing to pay royalties to Shelby. I believe Trevor details this in his book.
   
   Anyway, I hear the Kirkham name far too few in this blog. Let's face it, there is NOOO comparison between any of the other manufacturers and Kirkham, and most aluminum Shelby continuation cars are re-badged Kirkhams. Without AC producing any cars at this time, I guess that makes Kirkham the next AC. Same principle: Some one supplies the chassis and body, Shelby shoehorns in a drive train and puts his name on it.
   for the sake of the brand, would hope the German affair is successful, but from the outside looking in it smells way too much like history repeating itself and another lawsuit in the making....Although I must say, how "AC" is a German built car and how "cobra" is a GM powertrain?
   
   Hmmm, maybe I should throw in a couple of inflammatory comments to assure this blog keeps going for another few pages!!!
   
   Gus

[TLegate]

Feel free Gus!!!!! We can take it! He said, with tongue firmly in cheek......and I do agree re Kirkham for what it's worth. If you need a 'Cobra' in your life, who you gonna call...?

[Clive Sutton]

Following close on the heals of Aston Martin and its commercial tie up with Toyota to make the £20K Aston derived from the Aygo, a great follow on for the deutcher lubinsky consortium could the 'Mk V1 GWIZ.  A modern day city electric variant complete with external loundsprechers blasting sampled sounds of the 427 exhaust tone. Only one problem, they might get sued by Brabus who got there first with the Brabus tuned Electric Smart.. Then to quote the classic line from the film 'Life of Alan (whoops I meant Brian!) ' What have AC ever done for us ?

[Gus Meyjes]

That oughtta get 'em going again!!
   
   Gus

[nikbj68]

Autocar have just tested the MkVI...And they like it. A LOT.
   
   (Click pics for video reports.)
   
   
   
   They Decided to Drag race the MkVI vs a Corvette ZR1... which will win? `Vette`s 640BHP vs The MkVI`s 430BHP...
   
   
   
   And for those of you who think the MkVI looks like Tim... think again!(Clcik pic)
   
   

[dkp_cobra]

Sorry, but in the video the car looks like a kit-car to me. A nice kit-car but a kit-car.
   
   I just sold my first cobra kit-car and was hoping to leave that community. Now it comes back to me [xx(]