Author Topic: Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)  (Read 121567 times)

AC Ace Bristol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1511
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2009, 12:55:18 »
Email received from :-
   
   Art (Cleveland)  From the East Coast confirmed that Peter Lovely is now 79 years young and still lives in Tacoma, Has interest in Lotus Club. Also has ads in lotus Bulletin and possible connection with a Lotus restoration company in the Seattle / Tacoma area. (  believe he Still races a Ferrari Testa Rosa ?)
   
   Many thanks ART for telephone numbers and addresses  .....  will follow up this weekend.  appreciated!
   
   Keith

AC Ace Bristol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1511
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2009, 14:58:37 »
Received a e-mail from John R Lucke, confirming telephone numbers and addresses ( Inc Business) for both  "Peter Lovely" and "Tom Carstens".   many thanks  John.  [;)]
   
   Also confirmed some fasinating connections with 1950s & 1960s Sports Car racing in NW USA.  Obviously moving in the right circles, Racing Maserati 4CLT-8,  Knobbly Listers, Allards,  Ferrari Testa Rosa and the odd Lotus 11.
   
   Hopefully between these two they have additional information on the various AC Aces raced in this region of USA, Canada, British Columbia and Vancouver,  Any information however small appreciated, Could be the vital link to associate driver with specific Ace and assist another member/s  in confirming vital history of their Ace.
   
   Please keep the info coming in and eventually I should complete the Historic Racing Picture of BEX333 and hopefully furnish other Ace owners with pictures of their Aces in ACtion.
   
   Thank you to all those who have emailed. phoned and contributed to this thread to date ........  Appreciated.
   
   Keith  [:)]

nikbj68

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2009, 15:44:16 »
Wow... Floods of leads!!! Great stuff, considering only 3 weeks ago "...This thread is now closed..." !!!

AC Ace Bristol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1511
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2009, 18:56:22 »
John R Lucke  & Art Cleveland  etc
      Thank you for tel numbers, unfortunetely having a little problem as some of the numbers are out of date (no longer used) and the 7 hour time difference causing difficulty, If either of you or any other reader has a email address for Peter Lovely and Tom Carstens it/they would be appreciated, in the meantime I will post from UK a letter and link to this thread to each address in hope that it will generate a few more details.
   
   I have quickly lightly cleaned the English number Plate "TXF913" the letter T  and number 3 are a little marked the rest of the number plate is amost concours, Did notice lightly but clearly visible scratched into the black paint on the centre line face of number plate a circle encompassing the numbers 333. (was this scribed in UK or in USA ?)
   
   Need to establish if this number plate was issued in UK to my Ace prior to export or was it taken off a 1957 English export car and used to mount the USA number plate AKF221 to the front of BEX333 ??
   Have since learnt that Aceca TAE618 was registered TXF912  pre 2nd July 1957 and Ace  BE295was registered TXF911 pre 7th May 1957, with my Ace Bristol   BEX333 register TXF913 pre 19th Aug 1957.   Was this just a ploy to reduce purchase Tax ??
   
    Has Peter and / or Tom  photos of BEX331(Black/Black), BEX332 (Red / Black) and BEX333 (White/Red) which were all despatched from Thames Ditton on the 19th August 1957, Destined for Imported Motor Cars - Tacoma.
   
   Any one in the UK have record to which Vehicle English number TXF913 was allocated. Mike Mansergh in UK states that he has a book stating that TXF and TXA were issued in London for Cars due for Export.  All very interesting, but not answering the question.
   
   Any assistance gratefully received and appreciated.
   
   Keith  [:)]
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 14:55:42 by AC Ace Bristol »

mike m

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2009, 18:34:30 »
Keith,
   Just looking at your possible english registration for BEX333 in my "Trader Handbook" dated 1963. In the section for registration letters, TXA through to TXL are shown as (Export) and TXF covering May 57-Nov 57. This ties up well with the build/ reg date for your car.XF is also shown generally as a London mark. Further info may be on the national archive site:http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=051-cc_4&cid=2-5-1-6#2-5-1-6. Moving on to the actual plate, My trader book also has an advert for "ACE" number plates made by Corner craft Ltd, Ace works Parkside Coventry. The  small eliptical Badge is present on the upper left hand side, exactly the same as both plates on my Aceca. I suspect that 333 was registered in england, possibly at Kingston on Thames or County Hall London before export to the states.Good luck. Mike M

AC Ace Bristol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1511
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2009, 00:07:40 »
Hi Mike
   
   Welcome to the Forum.
   
   Thank you for scanning through your reference library and confirming  which parts of the registration plate indicate Area Identification and Confirming that the license issue date of May 1957 to November 1957, Which coincides nicely with the manufacturing & export date of BEX333 which was 19th August 1957,  also for confirming your source of reference material.
   
   Another source of reference worth checking out, for members seaking information on number plate Identification  google:-
   "Chiltern Preservation Group, Car Registrations & Number Plates , 1903 to 2003"
   
   
   Meanwhile John R Lucke and Art Cleveland  both in USA have made positive  inroads regards contacting Peter Lovely and have emailed a series of leads, with potential of securing email address and fingers crossed some proof that BEX333 arrived in Tacoma wearing the British Number Plate  TXF913.( Which also wears the small oval Ace logo in the top left hand corner of the number plate, as Mike confirmed )
   
   Hopefully a member of Peter Lovely's family or a ex-employee has a photograph of the three Aces ...  ... BEX331 /  BEX332  and  BEX333 all together on the forecourt and /or individual photos of each when delivered to  "Imported Motor Cars" - Tacoma in 1957. Mind you after 52 years We are asking a lot.
   
   Should any information materialise relating to BEX331 & BEX332 then I will  forward on to the relevent Custodians and publish along with all new material on BEX333 on this thread.
   
   A big thank you to you all.  [;)]
   
   Keith [:)]

nikbj68

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2009, 06:59:59 »
Quote
Originally posted by mike m  Keith,
   Just looking at...my "Trader Handbook" dated 1963...an advert for "ACE" number plates made by Corner craft Ltd, Ace works Parkside Coventry. The  small eliptical Badge is present on the upper left hand side, exactly the same as both plates on my Aceca...Mike M
And here it is:
   
   
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 22:17:47 by nikbj68 »

AC Ace Bristol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1511
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2009, 13:00:27 »
quote:
Originally posted by AC Ace Bristol
   
Hi Mike
   
   Welcome to the Forum.
   
   Thank you for scanning through your reference library and confirming  which parts of the registration plate indicate Area Identification and Confirming that the license issue date of May 1957 to November 1957, Which coincides nicely with the manufacturing & export date of BEX333 which was 19th August 1957,  also for confirming your source of reference material.
   
   Another source of reference worth checking out, for members seaking information on number plate Identification  google:-
   "Chiltern Preservation Group, Car Registrations & Number Plates , 1903 to 2003"
   
   
   Meanwhile John R Lucke and Art Cleveland  both in USA have made positive  inroads regards contacting Peter Lovely and have emailed a series of leads, with potential of securing email address and fingers crossed some proof that BEX333 arrived in Tacoma wearing the British Number Plate  TXF913.( Which also wears the small oval Ace logo in the top left hand corner of the number plate, as Mike confirmed )
   
   Hopefully a member of Peter Lovely's family or a ex-employee has a photograph of the three Aces ...  ... BEX331 /  BEX332  and  BEX333 all together on the forecourt and /or individual photos of each when delivered to  "Imported Motor Cars" - Tacoma in 1957. Mind you after 52 years We are asking a lot.
   
   Should any information materialise relating to BEX331 & BEX332 then I will  forward on to the relevent Custodians and publish along with all new material on BEX333 on this thread.
   
   A big thank you to you all.  [;)]
   
   Keith [:)]
   
   
   Still trying to confirm if BEX333 was registered TXF913 prior to export to Tacoma (Seattle-USA) in August 57.
   
   Just received a interesting email stating that it was fairly common practice for Cars to be Road registered in UK (clock up a some miles) prior to export, thus avoiding or reducung purchase tax as the vehicle would be deemed second hand.  A very interesting Ruse !
   
   In fact Demo models in Garages today do similar practice, to help increase sales to the general public.
   
   Does any one reading this thread know of any one with access to records which might help confirm if TXF913 was officially allocated to BEX333 prior to exporting to USA in Aug 1957?.
   
   Cheers 4 Now
   
   Keith
   
   
   

AC Ace Bristol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1511
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2009, 13:59:26 »
John Spencer the ACOC Club Historian, Confirms that any member seeking details on registration marks issued in the UK should visit the following web site, better still write to them including a SEA and a cheque for £7.50.
   
   They have record of some 2.000.000 historic registration cards / documents, if they have major data on your registration they supply written proof and if sufficient information is available can for a fee of £25.00 supply written data to assist in securing original registration mark and reuniting it to its rightful place/vehicle.
   
   website:    www.KitheadTrust.org.uk
   
     or  TheKitheadtransportarchive
   
   email :  Kitheadtrust@live.co.uk
   
   Write to :  The Kithead Transport Archive.
               De Salis Drive, Hampton Lovett. Droitwich, WR9 0QE
   
   John also confirmed that the official  "Thames Ditton Build Book"   (The AC Bible) [;)] also contains data on all ACs ( Post War) which were issued to various Agents/ dealers for display in their showrooms (Sale or Return) and if not sold were returned to Thames Ditton some agreed period later for resale via Thames Ditton or another Agent.
   
   Thank you John for the above information, I will write to The Kit Head Transport Archive enclosing a cheque for £7.50 and hopefully get more information, if I get a negative response and my £7.50 cheque returned, I have only lost a few minutes of my time.
   
   Good luck to other ACOC members who might  be lucky in securing and reuniting their AC with its original Registration Mark.
   
   Keith [:)]  [:)]

nikbj68

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2009, 16:38:12 »
quote:
Originally posted by AC Ace Bristol
   ...Good luck to other ACOC members who might  be lucky in securing and reuniting their AC with its original Registration Mark.
   Keith [:)]

   
   This is exactly what Tony Bancroft succeeded in doing with the Ace Bristol 5 BPG, as my father retained that number in the 70`s (possibly used it on a Fiat 500!!!)but it would have been lapsed for some considerable time. It is now, I believe, non-transferable, but in this case, that`s no bad thing.
   Whether Tony used the above method or not, I`m not sure, but I am sure he would assist any club member in re-uniting a car with it`s correct number.

aex125

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2009, 15:09:54 »
Keith,
   I was going through some of my old magazines last night and found a copy of the Oct 1959 Canada Road and Traffic with an article on the first Race at Westwood. No pics of BEX333, but it talks about James Parson's 2nd place finish in Race 5 (finished 2nd to a Corvette, and there is a results table at the end. If you do not have a copy of the article and want one, I can try to scan it in.Unfortunately, the article does not have a race date identified.
   Jay

AC Ace Bristol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1511
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2009, 18:10:46 »
Jay
   
   I do not have a copy of the article you refer to and would really appreciate a copy of anything you have relating to James Parsons competing in BEX333.(Would even buy the odd back copy if available)
   
   I do have a poor discoloured copy of articles from the following Canada Track & Road, which gives mention to Jim Parsons at Westwood..
   
   Bill Barford wrote a feature "Westwood Still Going Strong" in  Canada Track & Road dated January 1960. (Jim / James Parsons is incorrectly referred to as John Parsons) ref: pages 30 and 31.
   Page 31 shows Jim spinning infront of Al Doyon also driving a Ace Bristol in very close proximety to a Porsche 356.  I would dearly love to get a good quality copy of this picture.
   
   Also have a equally discoloured poor quality copy of article published in  Canada Track & Road dated November 1959 ... SCCBC  "Westwood Opener" again James Parsons is mentioned.
   
   Sports Car Club of British Columbia News Sheet dated 12th August
   1959 confirms some race results confirming James Parsons racing results relating to  Westwood race meetings of July 26th 1959 and 9th August  1959.
   
   JAY ... Could you please email me   Keith.lessiter@gmail.com    (Amended 1st June 2018)    a copy of your data and if possible publish any    information / data you have on this thread. [?]
   
   Definitely interested in buying back copies of "Canada Track & Road"
   featuring the various race meetings in British Columbia, Vancouver and NW USA covering the period  January 1958 through  December 1961.
   Especially if they substantiate more racing history of my BEX333.
   
   What ever information you have certainly complements the information I have secured over the past 10 years and is yet another piece of the jigsaw which is gradually creating a historic picture of the
   " Racing History of BEX333".
   
   Jay .... Thank you once again, any information you have would be appreciated.
   
   Cheers 4 Now
   
   Keith [:)]  [:)]
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 16:32:33 by AC Ace Bristol »

aex125

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2009, 03:40:46 »
Keith,
    I sent a copy of the article. Not the best quality, but at least something.
   Jay

AC Ace Bristol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1511
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2009, 11:39:33 »
Jay
   
   Recieved all four pages,( Quality similar to other copies retrieved from SCCBC & ICSCC) Not sure of the exact date of this race meeting, in which James came 2nd in race 4,  Could have been the Westwood meeting of August the 9th.
   
   James Came 2nd in race 5 and 1st in class (Westwood 26 July 1959)
   and 3rd on 16th August 1959 also taking 1st in class.
   
   Interesting that Ken Miller and Alf Doyan were also doing well in their Ace Bristols.
   Also note that Pete Lovely did FTD in his lotus XV, Peter actually handed the keys and BEX333 over to James Parsons when James bought BEX333 from AC Agents " Imported Motor Cars " Tacoma.
   
   Alf Doyan rebuilt the engine in BEX333 in 1965 for Lee Kolb, from whom I bought BEX333 in Sept 2000.
   I didnt then fully appreciate that when I bought my Ace from Lee Kolb,(Seattle) that I would inherit 36 years of reciepts and Thames Ditton correspodance (1964 to 2000).Full continous history,? well almost,  Still more history is comming to light thanks to the ACOC Forum.  Still trying to contact Pete Lovely any one have a email address ?
   
   Keith  [:)]

aex125

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
    • View Profile
Racing History BEX333 (1957-1964)
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2009, 15:43:49 »
Keith,
   Have you tried contacting the Vintage Racing Club of British Columbia? At the end of the flyer in the link below, there are e-mail addresses for a few members who may have been there in the day.
   
   http://www.vrcbc.ca/Vantage%20Winter%202007.pdf
   
   Jay