Author Topic: Nose Extension framework bracket ID  (Read 7548 times)

aex125

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Nose Extension framework bracket ID
« on: October 22, 2008, 05:28:24 »
The previous owner of 1078 cut out the framework forthe  nose extension and it is such bad condition I may make a new piece. However, there is a bracket on the one from 1078 that I do not recognize. In the picture below it is the bracket that is in the center of the lower front cross tube. It is not there on AEX125 and I am wondering if it is supposed to be there on 1078 and if so, what is its purpose?
   
   
   
   Thanks,
   Jay

cobham cobra

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Nose Extension framework bracket ID
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 11:20:45 »
Hi Jay,
   Looking at the shape of the hole my guess is it's for a starting handle to hand crank the engine. Many European cars even up to the  early 60s had provision for one.
   This is a link to one on ebay to give you an idea of what it looks like.
   John.
   
   http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MORRIS-MINOR-STARTING-HANDLE_W0QQitemZ280278662108QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280278662108&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

pjbowman

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Nose Extension framework bracket ID
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 14:10:58 »
Jay - definitely for the starting crank. I can send a picture of it in place on AEX127 if it helps, sort of hard to see behind the grill, but it's definitely there. Was probably removed from AEX125 during modifications.
   
   Peter
Peter B.

AC Ace Bristol

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Nose Extension framework bracket ID
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2008, 01:22:16 »
quote:
Originally posted by cobham cobra
   
Hi Jay,
   Looking at the shape of the hole my guess is it's for a starting handle to hand crank the engine. Many European cars even up to the  early 60s had provision for one.
   This is a link to one on ebay to give you an idea of what it looks like.
   John.
   
   http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MORRIS-MINOR-STARTING-HANDLE_W0QQitemZ280278662108QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280278662108&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
   

   
   Jay
   
   John is spot on   all Ac & Bristol engined Aces & Acecas  had this bracket to support the starting handle,  hence the cut out in the Brass  and the later ali grills.
   
   Not sure how a starting handle got through the radiator and onto the non existant dog on the nose of the engine, However, keep things correct and fabricate the bracket to ensure everything  is authentic.
   
   Will email you in the next couple of days a few pics of various Aces to substantiate the above.
   
   Keith

aex125

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Nose Extension framework bracket ID
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2008, 06:17:04 »
While my imagination was running wild as to the purpose for the bracket, being for the manual crank for starting the engine was definitely not one of the thoughts I had. Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever tried to use it for its intended purpose? As Keith said the radiator would be in the way, so it seems it would not be very functional. Thanks to all for the responses.
   Jay

aex125

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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2008, 06:42:00 »
Keith,
   I received your e-mail, but my response to you bounced. My e-mail address is sfm081 at yahoo dot com.
   Thanks,
   Jay

pls01

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Nose Extension framework bracket ID
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2008, 18:59:14 »
On BEX 375, there is a hole in the radiator bottom tank that allows the starter handle to pass through.  The engine has a dog built into the large nut that retains the harmonic damper.  The dog feature is not easily seen because it is recessed in a tubular guide cover.
   
   All good, but the center steering link is in the way.  Turning the wheels a bit to the right on a LHD car may allow just enough clearance between the steering links to engage the starter handle into the engine, but I doubt it.  Maybe I'll give it a try this weekend

bex316

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Nose Extension framework bracket ID
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2008, 00:56:01 »
Agree with Peter (BEX 375) on every point. It's the same on BEX 316. Not sure about his doubts if it will work with the wheels turned somewhat. Besides cranking, it can be more useful for another thing and that is carefully and accurately turning the engine into the desired positions for checking and adjusting valve clearances. I have used this method several times on my MGA and it works well on that car.
   
   Jerry

pjbowman

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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2008, 04:17:35 »
I have actually used a home-made crank thru this bracket and to the engine to turn the engine over as I set the valves, so it definitely serves it's purpose on AEX127!
   
   Peter
Peter B.

AC Ace Bristol

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« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2008, 11:47:24 »
quote:
Originally posted by bex316
   
Agree with Peter (BEX 375) on every point. It's the same on BEX 316. Not sure about his doubts if it will work with the wheels turned somewhat. Besides cranking, it can be more useful for another thing and that is carefully and accurately turning the engine into the desired positions for checking and adjusting valve clearances. I have used this method several times on my MGA and it works well on that car.
   
   Jerry
   

   
   
   Jay, Peter & Jerry
   
   Grovelled under BEX333,  yep, your all correct,  my radiator has the hole through the bottom section to accomodate the starting handle which would then assist when doing the tappets.
   
   Trouble is my Oil cooler will leak if I put hole through to line up with both the rad and front bracket.
   
   Seriously, Just never really noticed this detail as I fitted the the oil cooler many moons ago. Whilst the front spring and steering geometry obstruct visual contact from inside engine bay.
   
   Hopefully the pics I emailed you, showing the bare frame work and chassis answer many of the questions encountered during the restoration of AEX1078.
   
   Cheers 4 Now
   
   Keith

pls01

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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2008, 20:35:35 »
Jerry,
   Didn't get a chance to try the handle, but took this picture.  Not a lot of room around the steering parts.
   
   
   
   Peter

AC Ace Bristol

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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2008, 09:53:16 »
quote:
Originally posted by pls01
   
Jerry,
   Didn't get a chance to try the handle, but took this picture.  Not a lot of room around the steering parts.
   
   
   
   Peter
   

   
   Peter
   
   Nice clear picture,  much cleaner than BEX333,  Just one observation, these three ball joints and the steering centre link pin need to been greased every 500 miles or so,  even more frequently if used in heavy rain conditions or  very dusty conditions,  to increase longevity of all joints and maintain best accurate steering.
   
   I know technology has moved on and oils & grease have superior properties these days, but this steering system was designed before we were born and most certainly wears out quicker than rack & pinion steering.
   
   Getting back to Jays initial thread ... ... ...can you or any other reader supply picture and dimensions of the starting handle issued and originally stored on the shelf  above the rear axle in each Ace prior to despatch from Thames Ditton?  or was it a optional extra ??
   
   Keith

pjbowman

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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2008, 22:25:06 »
Keith/Jay - while I don't have one of the cranks, here's a picture of one:
   
   
   and here's a picture of one stored in the boot:
   
   
   If any member knows where to get one of these handles, please contact me at peter@classic-motors-online.com
   
   Peter
Peter B.

GaryC

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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2008, 23:33:51 »
Jay and Peter...on BEX 402 you have to turn the steering to get the knuckles out of the way.  Then it slides all the way in and works as intented.  My handle is just as pictured. Dimensions are 36 3/4 x 5 3/4 x 7 inches.  What do the orig tools look like...I have a full tool bag but I was told there is a "box".??  Gary

bex316

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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2008, 23:51:59 »
Gary,
   
   Thanks for letting us know it works as intended by the AC factory, or at least on your car.
   Your newly acquired car seems to be quite complete even including the original crank.
   About the tools, AFAIK the Ace had a tool roll and the Aceca had a tray fitted in the recess of the spare wheel.
   So yours may be original, though having a complete and original set of tools is a real rarity. It may be not all of them are factory issued items. You could ask Ron Leonard for information. He is based in Durango, Colorado and has been handling these cars for ages.
   Of course we would love to see a picture of your tool roll and possibly the tools as well.
   How about some general pictures of your recently acquired Ace?
   Did you already send some to Keith?
   
   Jerry