Author Topic: Ace Overriders  (Read 29896 times)

B.P.Bird

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Ace Overriders
« on: April 16, 2018, 16:19:11 »
               Ace Overriders

   It may not be generally known that A.C. bought in a special pattern overrider for the early Ace. I wish I knew who the suppliers were; there is a family resemblance to the items used on the 2 litre Saloon and the contemporary Lea Francis, but neither are identical. Some 70 cars were so fitted before a change was made to buy in the different overrider being supplied for the Standard 8.
   The early pattern seems to have become unavailable around AE 93 or 94 . Perhaps the supplier discontinued operations and A.C. had to look elsewhere ? Perhaps it was to accommodate the Aceca tubular bumper bars ? Although at least one Aceca (AE 504) used the early overrider. In any event it seems that when carrying out repairs the later pattern has had to be used and examples of Aces with early overriders on one end, with late overriders on the other have been found. This looks really strange.....
   A project has been running in the Club to reproduce these rather good looking early overriders. The research has covered the globe from New Zealand to California to draw on the expertise we have amongst the membership. The great challenge to be overcome is to produce the tooling and this is expensive, however we now have the 3D scans and drawings, but before we take the next step of starting the production process we need to get an idea of what size of batch to put in hand. The figures below are based on 15 car sets which is guided by a survey of early cars and might well be somewhat conservative. As in all these Club projects, if it runs, there will be no guarantee that any further batches will be possible. This is the chance to get early Aces back to their original, better looking, specification. The quality of the finished overrider will be every bit as good as the original and in fact the plating is likely to be superior.
   There is a scheme already running (see Keith Lessiter's advertisement in ACtion) to supply overrider brackets to suit the later cars and Keith has agreed to add the very different, early type, bracket to his offer. There is also the question of the simple spacer tubes used on the rear mounting brackets; they are identical to the later cars and can be cut from suitable aluminium tube. The fasteners required are all off the shelf 3/8” and 5/16” BSF nuts and bolts. We will publish dimensions of spacer tubes and fasteners, along with some fitting notes, at a later stage.
   Individual cars will vary in their needs: There will be cars which have lost everything, cars which need only a correct bracket and every possible combination in between. This being the case it is the intention to offer the parts on a single item basis rather than in sets. However fitting one new shiny overrider alongside a 60 year old worn example might not be an ideal result – perhaps best considered in pairs ?
   
   The projected costs for each Overrider, ready to fit, polished and triple chrome plated are dependant on batch size, exchange rates and applicable custom duties, they are likely to be in the range of £88 to £98, but only for launch customers. Later purchases, if there are any in stock, will have to be priced significantly higher.
To join the scheme as a launch customer and order overriders we will need a deposit of £45 per overrider:

   First send your deposit to 'Thames Ditton Spares Ltd.' bank sort code 30-98-77 account no. 01414758. For overseas members IBAN GB50LOYD30987701414758. Use as reference your surname followed by '-ORS.' For example 'SMITH-ORS'.
If you wish to pay by cheque, made out to Thames Ditton Spares Limited,
send to:


   

      
      C.T. Pearce,   
         Tree House,
            Yopps Green,
               Plaxtol,
                  Sevenoaks,
                     Kent.
                        TN15 0PY
                           UK

Secondly confirm your order to bird@oldmanse.net  and if you have any technical questions please ask me.
      

      If writing send to

         
      B.P.Bird,
         Manse of Premnay,
            Kirkton,
               Insch,
                  Aberdeenshire.
                     AB52 6QF
                        UK

   





   Just for information, if a car has lost everything, this is the complete set of parts you would need, but remember this offer is just for the overriders and we will address the other easier items if we can get enough support for the overriders:
   
   4 off overriders
   2 off front brackets
   2 off rear brackets
   2 off short rear spacers
   2 off long rear spacers
   8 off fasteners overrider to bracket
   4 off fasteners bracket to chassis, front
   4 off fasteners bracket to chassis, rear

   This is the best information we have on the situation with early Aces:
   
   Those fitted with correct early style:-
AE27.
AE28.
AE32.
AE41.
AE40.
AE43.
AE64.
AE65.
AE66.
AE79.
AE83.
AE89.

   Those missing overriders altogether:-
AE22.
AE25.
AE26.
AEX31.
AE35.
AE46.
AE51.
AE63.
AE86.
AE88.
AE94.

   Those with incorrect (mostly Ford Prefect) overriders :-
AE29 (rear only.)
AE33.
AE34.
AE36.
AE38.
AE39.
AE42.
AE45.
AE49.
AEX54.
AEX55.
AEX61.
AE68.
AE70.
AE71.
AE72.
AE74.
AE75.
AE76 ( front only.)
AE78.
AE92.
AE93.



 


 
Attachments:

AE 40 with correct fitting

AE 65 front with correct fitting

AE 65 rear with correct fitting

AE 32 front and rear with correct fitting



      

   Acknowledgements to the Overrider Team:

      
      Rob Hendriks
      Brian Horwood
      Keith Lessiter               

                           Barrie Bird
                           9th April '18
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 10:57:13 by B.P.Bird »

B.P.Bird

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 10:57:24 »
By happy coincidence I just had a message from Dale Walmsley with a video link to his first run in AE 23 post reassembly. Apart from needing small adjustments here and there, including brake backplate clearance, as you will hear on the sound track, the dear old thing seems to be pretty sprightly. More relevant to this thread you can see some moving pictures of the correct overriders:

https://youtu.be/vFCd1ayrCT0

AC Ace Bristol

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2018, 11:02:11 »
.

Barrie.

Great to see the  Early Ace Over-rider  Project has been published in  the May issue of ACtion pages 34 /37.  Hopefully it generates sufficient interest and
orders  to proceed to the next stage ,  that of Manufacture.

A lot of time , effort and research has gone into this project ,  Just needs a few ACOC Members  / Early Ace  Custodians to place their order/s to allow the
 AC Owners Club to invest in financing this project .. :)

Barrie..  ..  ..  ..  Can you please post update as to  orders / deposits received. ?

Keith... :)
.



 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 11:09:02 by AC Ace Bristol »

B.P.Bird

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 13:44:11 »
Keith,
So far we have orders for 12 overriders and the ACtion announcement has not yet generated any interest. Perhaps we have not gone about this in the best way ?
Given the premium which has developed for matching numbers cars, to original specification, I would have thought custodians of these rare early Aces would be keen on a chance to get the appearance back to the way it was when the car left Thames Ditton. However it is a significant cost, albeit minute compared to current auction values.
Thinking back to the Candess filler cap project - which, remember, was to replicate the fifties and sixties style of cap, which differed only by the keyhole shape of the operating catch - there was in the end a big response: Custodians appreciated the chance to get back to original. This overrider project is in principal the same. Of course the audience for the filler cap was larger as it included the later Aces, Greyhounds and most Cobras.
We are far from giving up yet, but all suggestions gratefully received.......
 

AC Ace Bristol

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2018, 13:06:20 »
.

Barrie

Met up with Rodney Kettel  ( AE49 )  at the ACOC National on Sunday 10th June, Where we caught up on Family matters then sauntered over to
 Brian Howards Ace ( AE24 )  and met up with  Brian,  to compare  the two styles of Ace rider and brackets.

Rodney Kettel supports the project, Sold on the basis the cost is small commensurate to  the current  market value of  Aces and is sending a Bacs
payment to Chris Pearce for the deposit to secure a set of 4 correct  early style Over riders,  Appreciates if we do not secure sufficient orders then deposit
will be returned and project will be shelved. .. :(
Hopefully project achieves it goal, then Rodney can sell on his later style over riders to assist another custodian of a later AC Ace to help protect the
vulnerable Aluminium  bodywork.
l
To make the project viable , we really need commitment for 50/60 over riders,  Which equates to just 15 sets.  I believe we are 20% there.   :)

If you know any owner of a Early AC Ace  pre AE93,  Can you please draw their attention to this project and ask them to contact Barrie Bird Or
Brian Horwood.

Thanking you in anticipation...

Keith
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 16:33:42 by AC Ace Bristol »

B.P.Bird

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 19:43:11 »
Latest update Keith: After ploughing through the Register contact has been made with some of the owners, although of course the Register cannot help but be out of date to a degree. Some more orders resulted and we are up to 20 overriders - 33% of the target.
There were several owners who felt their car was non original in many areas and therefore would not correct the overriders. Their prerogative of course, but it is a council of despair: The longest journey starts with the smallest step and non original cars can progress towards original specification one step at a time. As you point out each step potentially adds value.
I think your suggestion of owners of early cars contacting each other with regard to this project is very good, especially overseas. This could reach early cars which are difficult to find via the Register.

AEX 31

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2018, 10:22:01 »
To whom it may concern!

I would like to order some over riders for AEX 31. However when I tried to make the down payment
my bank asked for the SWIFT/BIC code as well as the name of the bank and the address...

Could anybody in the know please inform me about that?

I sincerely hope that enough orders comes in so that this very worth while project takes of.

Kind regards

Jonas

PS on a different note, I'm 99,9 % sure my car never had any rear over riders...

AC Ace Bristol

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2018, 14:54:14 »
.

AEX31.

AC Owners Club Ltd   Bank details emailed to you.

Any query or problem please give me a call.  tel number inc.

Keith
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 15:10:10 by AC Ace Bristol »

B.P.Bird

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2018, 12:24:12 »
An update on the project: As of today we have reached 40% of target for number ordered. However the deposits seem to be lagging a bit behind the orders, I hope they will catch up as we head towards the end of the month. Looking through the Register again there are quite a number of early Aces in the U.S. and in Canada and we need to reach those owners who may well not be A.C.O.C. Members. Perhaps the S.A.A.C. might publish a reference, or is there a better route ?

B.P.Bird

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2018, 14:33:59 »
More news on the overrider project - some new interest which we hope will turn in to deposits and, best of all, some really interesting photo's from Phil Meaney of his Ace AEX 53.  He is embarked on a mission to return the car to her original form, having been modified in to a V8 configuration. Phil has ordered overriders, but as you can see from the pictures and by some miracle, the original early style mounting brackets have survived in pretty good shape. I think this demonstrates better than anything I can say how important it is to get the correct overriders back on the early Ace and how unoriginal the conversion to the Standard 8 pattern can be.
I understand a Weller A.C. straight six is in preparation and no doubt we shall hear from Phil as he progresses - he will doubtless come across a myriad of missing parts which the A.C.O.C. and Members might help with.


Above you can see how the single mount of the later overrider means they have to sit too low (too high if you use the upper mounting hole.)




These last two pictures shew the problem very well, although I was brought up not to stare at ladies bottoms this view is worth some study.






B.P.Bird

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2018, 20:48:37 »
Quick update - we have hit 50% of our orders target.

AC Ace Bristol

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2018, 08:29:02 »
.
.
Barrie

Whilst at Silverstone Classic, I had a word with Derek Wickes , His Ace AE79 has a correct pair of old style  Over riders and a pair of the later style,
suggested he order a pair of the older style and sell on his incorrect pair along with the brackets.
The Council are prepared to put a few pairs in stock but really need a little more committment  and orders from owners of the earlier Ace.

Any sign of increase in orders since July 4th ?

After all the time and effort in putting this project together It would be a shame to  see it fail at the last hurdle. :(

Come on .........Just need a few more orders....  ;)

Keith
 




« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 08:34:18 by AC Ace Bristol »

B.P.Bird

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2018, 14:55:29 »
Keith,
Latest update: We have orders from 9 owners which puts us over the 50% mark and with The Club supporting the project we just need to get a few more orders before going ahead. Having the identities of many of the cars missing, or having the incorrect overriders may make it possible to use the Membership list to cross reference and make direct contact. Brian Horwood is looking at this right now.
We really do need to get this project to a successful conclusion or the opportunity will be lost, perhaps for a very long time. It is becoming more and more obvious that the market sees two kinds of Aces - those with their original works specification and those which have lost it. Two recent sales of significant Aces point this up: The one with matching numbers and unmolested specification made £50K more than the one with some obvious changes. I hate to be directed by the market and of course we should regard ourselves as custodians of an old machine which can still give so much pleasure, but we are not immortal and ignoring this kind of price differential is, perhaps, ill advised.

B.P.Bird

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2018, 15:04:32 »
Latest move from Brian Horwood, who has put a a great deal of work into the project:

" I have trawled through the Register and the Members list to find another 10 members who have not responded to our notice. I have sent a letter to each of them.
 
The chassis numbers are: 33,38,39,45,51,55,63,71,78, and 88.
 
There are a number of gaps but we don’t have a system to ask owners to advise us when a car changes hand.
 
Fingers crossed. "

As Brian points out Registers are always out of date, sometimes by years. Not the Registrars fault, you can only record what information is sent to you. So if any Members know of early Aces please give their owners a nudge to get in contact with the Overrider Project.
Here is a picture of AE 22, the first Ace sold and also a car missing the correct overriders. I include it a) to fend off boredom and b) to illustrate how different these early Aces were. With such a packed installation the wiring will be time consuming, just getting a screwdriver on some of the terminals will be a challenge. All the more reason to get the overriders correct wouldn't you say ?







B.P.Bird

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Re: Ace Overriders
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2018, 18:36:12 »
Hello overrider fans. An interesting update: We have our first order for an Aceca. The date and car number for the changeover from early to late pattern overriders is hard to establish for the Aceca. We know that early type overriders were fitted to AE 504 and there has been speculation that the change to the Standard 8 pattern was brought on by the fitment of the Aceca optional tubular bumpers. However there is a photograph of the tubular bumpers combined with the early overriders. The change to the Ace came about in late September 1955. One could conclude that the Aceca used the early pattern overrider for the first 6 months of production. Of course it is likely that cars were retrofitted with tubular bumpers if owners made such a choice so that photographic evidence will not be conclusive. If the early type overrider was used on Acecas up to the time it was discontinued on the Ace then the first 28 Aceca coupés would have been fitted with the early type - AEC 56 to AEX 525 inclusive. If the Aceca made the change earlier than the Ace then Thames Ditton would have had dual stocks of overrider patterns for a while. Anyone care to add some more speculation and Aceca pictures - did the 1954 London Motor Show Aceca have overriders for example ?