Author Topic: Front Lower Ball Joint  (Read 7813 times)

Adrian_S

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Front Lower Ball Joint
« on: June 05, 2015, 13:45:15 »
Does anyone know what ball joint AC used on the Ace front lower hub to track control arm please? I had a spectacular failure in Brighton yesterday and the garage I was recovered to are scratching their heads. I was told by the former owner it was likely to be Granada Scorpio but this is not the case. If anyone can help, I would be extremely grateful!

Wally

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Front Lower Ball Joint
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2015, 17:07:03 »
The lower ball joint as far as I know is a Ford Transit 1985 to 1991.
   
   But, this has a tapered pin with a threaded section at the top for a nut.
   
   I may be wrong but I seem to remember some had this fitted and some had hubs which had been machined for a parallel pin with a grove in, that then uses a pinch bolt through the lower part of the hub which is split so the nut and bolt pinches the pin.
   
   Which has your got? I am almost sure that the ball joint is the same part number for both but one has been machined parallel and the length adjusted to fit.
   
   Wally

Wally

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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2015, 17:09:23 »
Part number 502 1430, Don't know what make (Maybe Ford part number) but google shows it.
   
   Wally

paho

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Front Lower Ball Joint
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2015, 20:04:02 »
I had this problem last year. The ball joint is from a Ford Transit as you say. The spindle has to be machined down to fit, but check the diameter of the spindle first as there are two different sizes of pin that have been used depending on which car you have apparently.
   
   Neil Fisher at Redline Engineering can help you with a new pair.
   /Paho

Adrian_S

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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2015, 18:52:14 »
Thanks Guys I managed to obtain one from Neil Fisher whom confirmed the need for post machining. This accounts for the £160 unit price & just for info Neil only has one remaining in stock & not sounding keen to get another batch done. Thanks for all your help.   I'll pick up a transit version as well and talk to my Cnc shop.

Max Allan

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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2015, 13:51:15 »
I heard it was Transit joint with taper machined to provide parallel fitting. How on earth you can turn down the taper when the ball will simply spin in the socket is beyond me. But I've not studied one to see is and how it can be done.

paho

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Front Lower Ball Joint
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 09:17:51 »
..... you do it carefully. Its not something I would tackle personally. But luckily the workshop I use used some lateral thinking.
   
   I needed a ball joint temporarily so that we could move the car around in the workshop while awaiting new parts from UK. The workshop I use made a spare for me by holding the ball joint pin in a lathe by its threaded end and turning it at a slow speed. The pin does not move around much in its seating as the joint is quite stiff when new, those I've purchased are at least.
   The tool used for cutting needs to be rated for hardended steel. The threaded end was cut off when the machining was finished. The slot for the locking pin was machined with an angle grinder.
   BR /Paho

B.P.Bird

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Front Lower Ball Joint
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2015, 20:05:01 »
Gentlemen one hesitates to interfere from a position of ignorance, but it is difficult to to feel entirely comfortable reading about ball joint tapers being reduced to parallel pins: Especially when it seems that failures are being encountered. I suppose thought has been given to leaving the ball joint as manufactured and putting a taper in its female partner instead ? If that is impossible perhaps the female part could be reamed out, still parallel, but made larger, while a tapered I.D. sleeve is fitted to the ball joint taper pin to give a parallel O.D. Finally if one must remove the ball joint taper it might be better to grind the pin and get some expert advice on what heat treatment is then required; not that I have a clue how to heat treat a pin with the ball assembly attached - cryogenic treatment ? Any real engineers out there ?

Max Allan

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« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2015, 22:41:26 »
B.P.Bird does have a point. Adrian, what was the nature of your "spectacular failure"? Was it failure of the ball joint stub/pin where it locates in the hub carrier?

Adrian_S

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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2015, 15:12:43 »
Hi Max The spectacular aspect was more to do with careering around a roundabout at speed with just one wheel steering etc. The joint sheared just above the ball and there was evidence of corrosion inside the shear indicating it was probably cracked for some time before finally letting go when I hit a pot hole on the roundabout. The consensus between my auto technicians & CNC shop was metal fatigue and/or metallurgical defect rather than design fault. The Transit component is plenty heavy duty and fit for purpose they think although you can't rule out stresses induced by post machining (either in process or by alteration) I was just looking to get back on the road but would be interested in any design improvements.This would take more time (and the Ace is my daily drive!) I'll endeavour to post some photos soon (just on a train at the moment) but please feel free to email me on adrian.short@btconnect.com and I'll send some high res images.

paho

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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2015, 16:50:17 »
Just to ensure I didn't give the impression that my ball joint had a catastrophic failure.
   Both the UK MoT and the Swedish "bilbesiktning" results indicated that the ball joint had excessive play, but not enough to take the car off the road (the car had travelled 92K UK miles). So I changed it before the situation became "catastrophic".
   
   I think you just had very bad luck Adrian.
   
   I would not be happy with changing the present setup without knowing the ramifications.
   BR /Paho

Wally

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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2015, 18:00:51 »
I am almost sure a taper pin with a nut on top of the hub can not be used, it was along while since but I seem to remember that the abs reluctor ring and the bearing cap are in the way and the lower part of the hub casting just does not suit adaption.
   
   Wally

Adrian_S

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Front Lower Ball Joint
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2015, 15:06:59 »
I am attempting to insert a photo of the fractured ball joint [http://shawlineassetmanagement.co.uk/PhotoAlbumsPro/Album_nr9w4l/img]

Adrian_S

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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2015, 15:08:16 »
OK that went well! I'll experiment some more!

Adrian_S

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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2015, 15:19:43 »
2nd time lucky? The link seems to work on preview - here we go...[http://shawlineassetmanagement.co.uk/PhotoAlbumsPro/Album_nr9w4l/Ball3.JPG?cache=0.6975180204026401/img] It's interesting to note Wally's comments on his reply to my Steering Rack post. We found no spacers installed on the rack fitted to my car, to inhibit the lock. Consequently, the wheels do rub on the suspension at full lock. Now, when reversing under full lock, the front wheels can 'scrub' across the ground exerting quite high forces on the ball joint. My garage and I are now thinking that this is where the damage may have been done. I am hoping to fabricate some kind of preventer stops to limit the lock (when I can find some time!) and meanwhile try to avoid using full lock! Footnote: just wanted to point out that my particular Ace is one of the last 'project' cars that was about 80% completed at the works, then privately finished and SVA tested.