Modern safety & security rules for 428's ?

[Emmanueld]

quote:Originally posted by cmaddox3
   
   The smog in LA is as bad today as it's ever been.  I first visited LA in 1974, made several trips out there in the 1994-1997 timeframe and a visit out there this February, and it's as bad or worse than ever.  Between a dearth of rapid transit [which aren't extremely dirty diesel buses] the mountains which ring the metro area and the sheer mass of vehicles, short of everyone driving an electric or at least a hybrid car, there isn't much that the CARB [California Air Resources Board] can do that wouldn't prevolk a massive taxpayer uprising.
   Cheers!
   
   Chuck
   

   
   Chuck, I don't know what you have been smoking but I want some! I have been living in LA since 1993 and I use to come over here regularly before. The quality of the air has improved significantly, so much so that smog alerts are now a thing of the past. Now granted, I reside on the west side near the ocean where the air quality is significantly better than in the valley. I remember coming here in the 70's and 80's and there was a blue haze all over the city, it has been gone for at least 10 years. By the way all city buses run on natural gas! By the way, when you are in LA look me over, we can talk AC428!
   
   Emmanuel

[cmaddox3]

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   

quote:Originally posted by cmaddox3
   

quote:Originally posted by Nik
   Quote " Teutel`s Orange County workshop would not be road legal o`er here "

   I haven't seen the bikes up close, but ...A lot of the stuff I see them do makes me cringe.I watch for the Soap Opera aspect of the show... I do not know how those bikes...are titled or licensed. I'll bet it'd be interesting to know though!

   I like their creativity, but often cringe more at the soap/slapstick aspects(Like when they 'ramraided' their old w/shop whilst building the 'Shelby' bike)than the build processes...but Wow, has there been some investment in cutting edge technology, since Discovery`s input???

   
   I have to admit, I haven't been following them as closely on the Learning Channel since they moved from Discovery.  They have a different timeslot and I simply don't catch it like I used to.
   
   I remember seeing the Shelby and Sunoco 260 episodes (I really like the 260 bike quite a bit, as it was a departure from their usual style), but I can't say I've seen very many more recent ones.  Oh, I saw their visit to Silverstone which was fascinating.
   
   

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   
Any vehicles here subject to SVA(Single vehicle Approval)test often 'develop' non-conforming features after passing that may not be noticed during(or are removed for) subsequent annual MOT tests, so I guess the same could apply in the USofA too.

   
   I know that in the 1980's and 1990's it was popular among the fellows who wanted to hot rod around in their Mustangs/Trans-Am's etc. to take out the Catalytic Converter for ordinary use and put in a straight tube so one could run both cheaper and more exotic fuel's, and then swap the cat back in for testing.  I'm sure there are some out there who still do that.   In fact I remember there being advertisements for fake catalytic converters, that were disguised straight tubes.  It struck me as more work than it was worth.
   
   

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   

quote:Originally posted by ak1234
   ...You dont have to worry if old cars meet the standards .. there gone after 15 years.

   
   I interpret that as being manufacturers` "End of Life" product support, so it`s left to enthusiasts like ourselves to look after ourselves to a greater extent. Even cars that are now 15+ years old are relatively lo-tech, but looking after current cars when they hit 15+ is going to be increasingly beyond most of us.

   
   The thing I've noticed locally is that many more people maintained their own cars back when there were relatively few computer controls, Fuel Injectors, etc.  Now that more advanced equipment is involved there are fewer DIYer's out there.  My 1979 Capri with a 302 and Stick I could easily maintain myself, same thing with my 1984 2.8l V-6 Bronco II,  With all the electronics on my current Explorer, it's a lot more involved.
   
   

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   

quote:Originally posted by cmaddox3
   

quote:Originally posted by Trevor Legate
   And we definately won't mention the V8 Corvette-engined AC Ace that was racing in SCCA in 1958, as Ol' Shel had the idea first. Right.

   I would love to hear more about that one as I can't say I remember that one, but if you don't wish to mention it... That's your prerogative.
   Chuck

   You`d have to look in the book for that!!!!!
   
   or maybe the 'Cobraskin' version?!
   
   
   Cheers!
   

   That's a book I didn't know about...  Anyone care to share a link to where it can be ordered?  I'm already setup for Amazon.com/.uk/ca, and that'd be my preference.
   
   Thanks in advance!
   
   --  Chuck

[cmaddox3]

quote:Originally posted by Classicus
   

quote:Originally posted by Classicus
   
Still it's a shame that all the States can't get it together in the general public's interest and agree on a nationwide safety and emissions standard's policy, as I think on the whole our MOT's despite their stringency have definitely been a good thing when it's so easy for anyone to cut financial corners and risk other's lives.

   

quote:Not to put too fine of a point on this, but this is probably one of the reasons for that nasty little insurrection that happened about 230 years ago...

   Sorry you've lost me there Chuck what reasons ? []
   

   
   Irritation over governmental interference.
   
   Four words are about as concise as I can get!  [8D]
   
   --  Chuck

[cmaddox3]

quote:Originally posted by Trevor Legate
   
Cheers Nik you beat me to it. The V8 Ace is dealt with in great detail in Chapter 2 but suffice it to say the car's bodywork was 'almost certainly' modified at Thames Ditton and was the only Ace to have been exported to the USA sans engine and was fitted with a V8 from day one. The silence about that car is almost deafening :-) Chuck now rushes to his library and pulls out my book and reads about the Ace in question!!!

   Sorry Trevor!  I am afraid I don't have the [your] book in question.
   
   I seem to remember reading somewhere that when Mr. Shelby received the car in California the engine/transmission still wouldn't fit and they had to make some modifications to shoehorn the engine/trans in.  I don't remember where I read it, but it's been at least 25 years since I read that, so I have a reasonably plausible excuse for not being able to cite a source.
   

quote:Originally posted by Trevor Legate
   
Please don't take any offence to my postings but it does amaze me (still) that CS is credited for the 'Great Idea' when shed-loads of cars were flogging around the roads and race tracks of the UK and USA with V8s stuffed under the hood/bonnet, and had been for years.

   
   Hopefully, I didn't come across as offended.  I have little reason to think that folks in the isles would not have a better understanding of what is/was/might be happening there that I do.
   
   I also am fairly certain that Mr. Shelby wasn't the first person to think "Aw Hell!  Let's just put a big engine in it and see what it'll do!".  However, he was the fellow who had a bit to do with the marriage of the motor and chassis/suspension/coachwork/etc.  I've read that he (CS) had the idea of doing such a thing for a couple of years, he was likely far from the only person who had the idea: "let's stick an American V-8 into a European Sports car".
   
   

quote:Originally posted by Trevor Legate
   
Assorted people in the UK were experimenting with the V8 idea. Ken Rudd for one, as part of the great 'what if' debate. Had Charles Hurlock not been so insulting to him (for being almost too successful and having the nerve to use such a common engine as a mere Ford!) CS might have been second in the queue at Thames Ditton. But he wasn't. The Hurlocks had being asking just about every manufacturer with an engine but were rejected for numerous reasons (not wanting the competition, not prepared to suppy small numbers etc) and no doubt the official Ford line was to turn them down, but in this life, it's not what you know, it's who you know, and Shel knew Don Frey, amongst others. The rest, as they say.....
   
   Always fun to discuss the Ifs and Buts of history, no?

   
   Absolutely, were it not for Chevy's reluctance to supply engines for a product that would compete with their own Corvette...  The Buick F-85 was certainly lighter (albeit smaller displacement) than the 260, but it would have made for a very interesting vehicle too.
   
   

quote:Originally posted by Trevor Legate
   
For the record, the only time I do get a tad irritated is when history is deliberately re-written. For instance: "AC were never more than a supplier of parts..." Such jaw-dropping idiocies should always been challenged and corrected regardless of who might get upset.

   I frequently have to do the exact same thing when it comes to vintage chronographs.  For if one doesn't stomp the fallacies quickly they tend to live a life of their own on the web.
   
   Hopefully I haven't been guilty of that in this thread...
   

quote:Originally posted by Trevor Legate
   
Still it seems that CS has now turned his attention towards the company known as SAAC, assuming current reports are accurate, so they will have something to occupy their minds for a while. Such fun!
   

   
   I'm glad to see activity on that front after so many idle years.  Mr. Shelby is in his mid-80's now and on his (at least) second heart.  I hope we have him and his efforts with us for a goodly time yet!
   
   --  Chuck

[cmaddox3]

quote:Originally posted by Emmanueld
   

quote:Originally posted by cmaddox3
   
   The smog in LA is as bad today as it's ever been.  I first visited LA in 1974, made several trips out there in the 1994-1997 timeframe and a visit out there this February, and it's as bad or worse than ever.  Between a dearth of rapid transit [which aren't extremely dirty diesel buses] the mountains which ring the metro area and the sheer mass of vehicles, short of everyone driving an electric or at least a hybrid car, there isn't much that the CARB [California Air Resources Board] can do that wouldn't prevolk a massive taxpayer uprising.
   Cheers!
   
   Chuck
   

   
   Chuck, I don't know what you have been smoking but I want some!

   "I wouldn't go banco on that, Mr. Bond!"  --  Contessa Tracy Draco
   
   Actually, Since I've never smoked,  I'm not so sure you'd be satisfied with that.
   
   

quote:Originally posted by Emmanueld
   
I have been living in LA since 1993 and I use to come over here regularly before. The quality of the air has improved significantly, so much so that smog alerts are now a thing of the past. Now granted, I reside on the west side near the ocean where the air quality is significantly better than in the valley. I remember coming here in the 70's and 80's and there was a blue haze all over the city, it has been gone for at least 10 years. By the way all city buses run on natural gas!

   
   Ok, I'll be open and upfront about the buses...  I'm sure they've improved from what I remember in the 1970's.  Frankly when I was out in the 1990's what little attention I was paying to buses was in not hitting them while driving about.  Although I remember getting caught in some nasty Diesel fumes in the Tustin area where I was doing some work.
   
   I made three or four trips out to LA in the mid-1990's, I flew out one memorable week in February 1995 when I arrived a front had just passed through and the air was so clear that you could see mountains clearly all the way out to the horizon (this was in the Tustin area), by the second day, you could only see a hazy outline of the shapes of the mountains, by Wednesday, only the base of the mountains and a ceiling of smog...  If I had arrived on that Thursday, I wouldn't have ever known the mountains were there because there was so much smoggy haze in the air: you simply couldn't see that far.
   
   This February I was in a reasonably swanky part of LA...  Wilshire and Rodeo Drive...  I could see the Hollywood sign as I was out and about, but man I could see the smog between me and it too.  I'll also note that I was pretty much pedestrian on that trip and Wilshire and Rodeo Drive probably doesn't see a lot of bus traffic either I'd wager.  It's a little too high rent for that.  So I don't have any first hand experience with current bus fumes.  But I don't think LA's commuter rail infrastructure compares with NYC's, or DC's or Chicago's.  LA is still a place where the car is king.  You have that many people driving that many cars in an area bordered by mountains...    Smog is going to happen even with comparatively clean running vehicles.
   
   Admittedly, I was only out in LA for a week to 10 days as a near-teen in 1974, and about a week each of my 3-4 trips in the 1990's, and only five days this year.  And it's very difficult to state long term progress based on such finite observations.  But...  I'm from Chicago, a place not exactly known for pristine natural beauty, lakes you can see clear to the bottom of, or a dearth of vehicular traffic.  That's what I saw when I was out there.  Over all, for a longer stretch of time, perhaps [and probably] the Air-quality is better.  But If anyone is planning a trip, Don't be too surprised if you see some smog when you're there.  Hmmm...  Maybe there were some wildfires that contributed to some of the smog.  I don't know.
   
   

quote:Originally posted by Emmanueld
   
By the way, when you are in LA look me over, we can talk AC428!
   
   Emmanuel
   

   
   Sounds like a plan should I get out that way!  Likewise if you ever find yourself in the Windy City!
   
   Cheers!
   
   --  Chuck

[Classicus]

quote:
Still it's a shame that all the States can't get it together in the general public's interest and agree on a nationwide safety and emissions standard's policy, as I think on the whole our MOT's despite their stringency have definitely been a good thing when it's so easy for anyone to cut financial corners and risk other's lives.

   

quote:Not to put too fine of a point on this, but this is probably one of the reasons for that nasty little insurrection that happened about 230 years ago...

   

quote:Sorry you've lost me there Chuck what reasons ? []

   

quote:Irritation over governmental interference.
   
   Four words are about as concise as I can get! [8D]

   
   Oh sure ! It's the same over here and everywhere worldwide ! [] A sad fact of life for years unfortunately.
   
   Interesting though I'm not quite sure if I've got this correct, are you trying to compare what happened about 230 years ago, with the lack of an organised nationwide safety and emissions standard's policy that represents to a greater or lesser degree an ongoing and increasing threat to people's daily lives, their families, children and futures ? And if so does this latter count as governmental interference as well ?

[cmaddox3]

quote:Originally posted by Classicus
   

quote:
Still it's a shame that all the States can't get it together in the general public's interest and agree on a nationwide safety and emissions standard's policy, as I think on the whole our MOT's despite their stringency have definitely been a good thing when it's so easy for anyone to cut financial corners and risk other's lives.

   

quote:Not to put too fine of a point on this, but this is probably one of the reasons for that nasty little insurrection that happened about 230 years ago...

   

quote:Sorry you've lost me there Chuck what reasons ? []

   

quote:Irritation over governmental interference.
   Four words are about as concise as I can get! [8D]

   Oh sure ! It's the same over here and everywhere worldwide ! [] A sad fact of life for years unfortunately.
   
   Interesting though I'm not quite sure if I've got this correct, are you trying to compare what happened about 230 years ago, with the lack of an organised nationwide safety and emissions standard's policy that represents to a greater or lesser degree an ongoing and increasing threat to people's daily lives, their families, children and futures ? And if so does this latter count as governmental interference as well ?

   
   Not exactly...
   
   What I'm saying is that the federal government has enacted and enforce nationwide standards on safety and emissions on new vehicles sold.  In certain areas of the country where pollution is a significant problem additional measures are taken.
   
   However, if you ask the typical American if they would prefer more federal mandates handed down from Washington DC or less of them, most would say less.  Most people would rather have issues settled at the City, County or State level rather than let the decision be made by Congress or some Burrocrat [spelling intentionally incorrect]  Hundreds if not thousands of miles away in some inane "one size fits all" law or regulation.
   
   In fact the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution mentions this sort of thing:
   “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people.”
   
   When laws, proclamations, regulations or lawmakers get out of hand, citizens have been known to take action to reel things back to a reasonable level.
   
   Reference:
   
   The 21st Amendment [repealing prohibition], California Proposition 13 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978)], or voting out elected politicians who have enacted unpopular laws/policies or voting people in who promise to change said laws/policies...  In Illinois in 1972 the incumbent governor enacted a State Income tax, which led to his loss in the next election and the end of his political career [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Ogilvie#Governor_of_Illinois].  We still have a State income tax, but we fired the arse of the turkey who ram-rodded it through the state legislature..   The Federally mandated nationwide 55-MPH speed limit of the 1970's and 1980's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law] is another example of people pushing back against unpopular imposition of regulations.
   
   
   [Kansas DOT workers changing a 75mph sign to 55mph in 1974]
   OH! THE HORROR!  A task so onerous that the worker had to wear a filter facemask!
   
   Oy! that was unpleasant, but I had to get the topic back on an automotive track.
   
   --  Chuck

[Classicus]

quote:Still it's a shame that all the States can't get it together in the general public's interest and agree on a nationwide safety and emissions standard's policy, as I think on the whole our MOT's despite their stringency have definitely been a good thing when it's so easy for anyone to cut financial corners and risk other's lives.

   

quote:Not to put too fine of a point on this, but this is probably one of the reasons for that nasty little insurrection that happened about 230 years ago...

quote:Sorry you've lost me there Chuck what reasons ?

   

quote:Irritation over governmental interference.
   Four words are about as concise as I can get!

   

quote:Oh sure ! It's the same over here and everywhere worldwide !  A sad fact of life for years unfortunately.
   
   Interesting though I'm not quite sure if I've got this correct, are you trying to compare what happened about 230 years ago, with the lack of an organised nationwide safety and emissions standard's policy that represents to a greater or lesser degree an ongoing and increasing threat to people's daily lives, their families, children and futures ? And if so does this latter count as governmental interference as well ?

   

quote:Not exactly...
   What I'm saying is that the federal government has enacted and enforce nationwide standards on safety and emissions on new vehicles sold. In certain areas of the country where pollution is a significant problem additional measures are taken.
   However, if you ask the typical American if they would prefer more federal mandates handed down from Washington DC or less of them, most would say less. Most people would rather have issues settled at the City, County or State level rather than let the decision be made by Congress or some Burrocrat [spelling intentionally incorrect] Hundreds if not thousands of miles away in some inane "one size fits all" law or regulation." In fact the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution mentions this sort of thing:
   The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people.? When laws, proclamations, regulations or lawmakers get out of hand, citizens have been known to take action to reel things back to a reasonable level.

   Ah good old Devolution....
   
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution
   
   Oh yes nearly forgot about one other nasty little insurrection that happened some 450 years ago as well. I was raised when young in Cornwall however bygones must be bygones I think ? []
   
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_Book_Rebellion
   
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_self-government_movement
   
   And back on the automotive track what an amazing coincidence ! []
   
   "AC also built a one-off AC Cobra Coupe to run in the 1964 Le Mans, the race won by Bondurant and Gurney in the Daytona Coupe. The AC Coupe was beautiful, sleek, and fast. On June 10, 1964, in the early morning hours, AC testers attained a speed of 185 mph on Britain’s M1 no-speed-limit super highway. Alas, a reporter was present and the ensuing publicity and subsequent do-gooder uproar in the notorious British tabloid press are frequently blamed for the imposition of national speed limits in Britain."
   
   Also among other AC items an interesting snippet and pic. about the Willment/Ghia 427 Coupe.
   
        http://www.secondstrike.com/Coupe/OtherCoupes.htm

[cmaddox3]

quote:Originally posted by Classicus
   
Ah good old Devolution....
   
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution
   
   Oh yes nearly forgot about one other nasty little insurrection that happened some 450 years ago as well. I was raised when young in Cornwall however bygones must be bygones I think ? []
   
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_Book_Rebellion
   
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_self-government_movement

   With regards to the Cornish movement.  We have a modern semi-serious equivelent in the States:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_republic
   

quote:Originally posted by Classicus
   
And back on the automotive track what an amazing coincidence ! []
   "AC also built a one-off AC Cobra Coupe to run in the 1964 Le Mans, the race won by Bondurant and Gurney in the Daytona Coupe. The AC Coupe was beautiful, sleek, and fast. On June 10, 1964, in the early morning hours, AC testers attained a speed of 185 mph on Britain’s M1 no-speed-limit super highway. Alas, a reporter was present and the ensuing publicity and subsequent do-gooder uproar in the notorious British tabloid press are frequently blamed for the imposition of national speed limits in Britain."

   As beautiful as the Daytona Coupe was/is, it doesn't have anything on the AC created coupe [pre-Frua].  I personally find the AC [pre-Frua] coupe to be exceedingly beautiful and one of a very few select cars which could give the Frua fasback a run for the money on that point.
   
   

quote:Originally posted by Classicus
   
Also among other AC items an interesting snippet and pic. about the Willment/Ghia 427 Coupe.
   
        http://www.secondstrike.com/Coupe/OtherCoupes.htm

   Thank you for sharing that link!  I wasn't aware of that one!
   
   I've seen the other coupes discussed previously.  I am not a big fan of the Wilmett/Ghia coupe (it's not a bad looking ar, it just doesn't live in the same league as the Frua.  Likewise the Type 65 is an interesting design ("the Slug" was one of it's nicknames) is likewise an interesting design.  I'm not sure it would have had the handling to keep up with the GT-40 and other competition with the roadster layout even with adequate development.  I also don't believe it's as handsome of a design as teh Daytona, (Pre-Frua) AC Coupe or the Frua.
   
   Thanks as always for sharing!
   
   Cheers!
   
   --  Chuck

[Emmanueld]

The main critic I have for the Frua was the use of low quality Italian steel resulting in tons of corrosion problems. The car should have been built out of aluminum like it's predecessors.
   
   Emmanuel

[cmaddox3]

quote:Originally posted by Emmanueld
   
The main critic I have for the Frua was the use of low quality Italian steel resulting in tons of corrosion problems. The car should have been built out of aluminum like it's predecessors.
   
   Emmanuel
   

   
   I agree whole heartedly.  Of course my biggest fear with one of these cars is the smallest stray pebble could ruin a windscreen and where does one find one for a car that only 80-81 examples were built?
   
   --  Chuck

[Emmanueld]

Windshield: We should get together with a few owners and split the cost to have a mold made! this is the biggest cost, then we could manufacture let's say 15 or 20 of them and sell the reminder and recoup our initial investment.  when I paint my car early next year, the windshield will have to come out, it will be the time to do it. I could investigate if enough people are interested. There a few companies here that specialize in custom glass! Emmanuel

[nikbj68]

quote:Originally posted by cmaddox3
   

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   You`d have to look in the book for that!!!!
   
   Cheers!
   

   That's a book I didn't know about...  Anyone care to share a link to where it can be ordered?  I'm already setup for Amazon.com/.uk/ca, and that'd be my preference.
   Thanks in advance!
   --  Chuck
   

   
   Hi Chuck. You should ask Mr.L very nicely for a signed copy.[]
   The book is available directly from TOUCHSTONE BOOKS, the publishers, where you will also find the 'SPECIAL'limited edition pictured above.
   A damned fine read, to be sure.
   
   You should also find it on Amazon, B&N etc....  

[cobham cobra]

I agree with you Nick, I have a copy of Trevor's book and really enjoy reading it. Trevor's original book is also very good but I have only read extracts and re-prints, I haven't managed to get a copy of the first book yet. Second-hand editions occasionally appear on Ebay, but they are usually expensive. I think Trevor has a stash of them in his loft and just sells one or two a month to finance his lavish lifestyle and motoring indulgencies[]

[Englishman]

Windshield -- Emmanuel, like you I will be pulling out the glass in order to paint the car, the condition of my existing screen is fine however there is always a risk of breakage. Andy Shepherd indicated that it is possible to get one made up in the UK for about 250 pounds plus shipping ( I believe that was the price stated ).
   
   Is the Fastback screen the same as the convertible ?
   
   Peter