Interesting questions !

[siegfried]

Posted - 29 November 2012 :  13:40:15
   Interesting questions !
   
   AC 428 Frua and De Tomaso Mangusta
   NOVEMBER 20, 2012 BY MIKE 7 COMMENTS
   4
   by Mike –
   This 1969 De Tomaso Mangusta is for sale on eBay with a Buy It Now Price of $$119,900.
   
   1969 De Tomaso Mangusta
   The seller, Daniel Schmitt & Co. (in St. Louis, Missouri), says it has just completed a restoration and has 36,325 miles. The photos look good and if the description is accurate this looks like a great Mangusta.
   
   1969 De Tomaso Mangusta
   
   1969 De Tomaso Mangusta
   This 1969 AC 428 Frua shown below was listed on eBay at a price of $255,000. It was listed by Hyman Ltd. (also in St. Louis). The eBay listing has ended and it is not on the Hyman web site now so maybe it sold.
   
   1969 AC 428 Frua
   
   1969 AC 428 Frua
   The seller says: “This 1969 example is in remarkable condition with just under 17,000 original miles and has never had, or needed, restoration yet today in metallic silver paint with its original black leather upholstery and interior trim looks crisp, sharp and exquisite. It has been repainted to very high standards.”
   
   1969 AC 428 Frua
   The Questions
   1) Here we have two excellent examples of European styled cars with American power (both Ford powered). Mike Clarke sent me the AC Frua eBay listing and asked why this car would be so much more expensive than a Mangusta. This AC Frua is priced at more than two times the price of this Mangusta.
   Is this justified? The Mangusta is a more beautiful car but I suspect the AC Frua is a better driver. Neither have any racing history and both were made in low numbers, although there are fewer AC Fruas around that Mangustas.
   As a talking point, the latest issue of the Hagerty Price Guide has the following values for condition 1 cars:
   1969 AC 428: $96,400
   1969 De Tomaso Mangusta: $145,000
   I do not believe that price guides are always correct but you can see why this is confusing.
   Let us know in the comments what you think about Mangusta values versus AC 428 Frua values.
   2) The other question – why are two such great cars both in St. Louis?

[Emmanueld]

The Detomaso Mangusta although quite pretty was a poorly designed car, it it was noisy, it was Alexandro Detomaso first attempt at a high performance car, it had very dangerous handling flows at high speed, suffered from constant overheating issues, it was also very costly to build. Lots of these cars were junked for their ZF gearbox which was straight from the Ford GT40.
   The Mangusta was superseded by the Pantera which was a big improvement in road holding but was now overly heavy and cheap. Gone was the GT40 gearbox, gone was the nice lightweight tubular and alloy body, just a rust prone regular Italian steel unibody. You are comparing apples and oranges! Detomaso were small production autos with no racing history (Incidentally, in the US, most of these cars have been modified with such poor taste billet after market junk, that their value is zero for real vintage car collectors) I have seen a couple of nice original Mangustas sell for mid $100K.
   
   For AC Fruas, it's a different ball game, just a few cars built by a very old established company, race bread heritage and chassis. Most cars are either original or are now restored to superb condition, this explain the high collector value. Like Cobras, a few deviations from original are allowed like side oiler blocks or other discreet, reversible mods.
   
   Now, one should be cautious about a Frua which has never required restoration, it may be true, but in practice, unless the car comes from Arizona or a similar dry state rust will have done its job and the car may require a complete work over. Buyer be aware.
   
   Emmanuel []

[Emmanueld]

Value has gone up and so is the quality of the cars we now run into, nice paint, interior, overall beautiful condition, a far cry from the cars which were around just a few years ago. It's nice to see that this fine automobile is now appreciated as it should!
   
   Emmanuel[]