AC Heritage Register for the Mk. IV

[BBK]

I had a recent inquiry in with Steve Gray at AC Heritage, asking him whether his company, with its position in the AC world, issues a sort of "heritage" certificate for the various models of AC cars, inclusive of the Mk IV.  My thought in this is something similar to the certificates that can be obtained for Britsh Leyland cars, the Marti Reports for Shelby Mustangs and Ford cars, or those that Galen Govier issues for Chrysler products.  I initially inquired with Alan Faulkner-Stevens to see if the ACOC issued such certificates and he directed me to inquire with Mr. Gray. Steve Gray responded that AC Heritage does not issue such certificates but also advised the following regarding the Mk. IV cars.....
   
   ......"Thease cars are becoming respected as "classics" thease days . We are putting together an Autokraft register of cars that exist today as Brooklands was their birthplace and our facility and archive dept are keen to include this generation in the Brooklands History of vehicles manufactured within the site . If you wish to add your details please send some recent photos and up to date information on.  And pass that message on to anyone in the US that has a Mk1V please that may be interested."
   
   I do not know any other Mk IV owners here in the U.S. yet, but advised Mr. Gray that I would post something on the Mk IV forum to reach out to ACOC owners of MK. IVs in the event there is interest in providing the details of their cars to him.  His email address is as follows:
   
    Steve <Steve@brooklandsmotorcompany.co.uk>

[ANF289]

quote:Originally posted by BBK
   
I had a recent inquiry in with Steve Gray at AC Heritage, asking him whether his company, with its position in the AC world, issues a sort of "heritage" certificate for the various models of AC cars, inclusive of the Mk IV.  ... We are putting together an Autokraft register of cars that exist today as Brooklands was their birthplace and our facility and archive dept are keen to include this generation in the Brooklands History of vehicles manufactured within the site . If you wish to add your details please send some recent photos and up to date information on.  And pass that message on to anyone in the US that has a Mk1V please that may be interested."

   Not sure what benefit this would provide.  A heritage certificate would have to be based on AC factory records, which I assume AC Heritage does not have.  Providing heritage certificates based on owner-supplied information is a little like having a fox guard a hen house.  Where are the guarantees of “heritage”?
   
   In reference to an Autokraft register, the ACOC already has that information.  Why recreate the wheel?

[linklaw]

I thought that Mr.Legate was in possession of the factory build records? Also, much information is available from the SAAC publications of 1997 and 2009 (I think), including owners, original color, original engine size, options.

[BBK]

."[/quote]
   Not sure what benefit this would provide.  A heritage certificate would have to be based on AC factory records, which I assume AC Heritage does not have.  Providing heritage certificates based on owner-supplied information is a little like having a fox guard a hen house.  Where are the guarantees of “heritage”?
   
   In reference to an Autokraft register, the ACOC already has that information.  Why recreate the wheel?
   
   
   [/quote]
   
   I'm not sure what makes up the relationship between Alan Lubinsky and AC Heritage and what factory records AC Heritage may have or not have.  Alan Faulkner-Stevens had suggested making the contact to Mr. Gray thus I presumed Mr Gray was privy to the factory production records.  My thought in a heritage type of certificate would be based on factory information vs owner supplied, which owner supplied information would be more for a register that  Mr. Gray is looking to compile.   Most  likely a duplicate of what Alan has and is compiling.  Not sure if a sharing of information between ACOC and AC Heritage makes sense.  Guess this depends on the relationship between the two organizations.

[AK1131]

Thank you BBK,
   
   I commend you thought and work. I will send my MKIV information soon.
   
   Fred Mix
   [8D] My car is aluminum and my boat is fiberglass.

[BBK]

quote:Originally posted by AK1131
   
Thank you BBK,
   
   I commend you thought and work. I will send my MKIV information soon.
   
   Fred Mix
   [8D] My car is aluminum and my boat is fiberglass.
   

   
   Thanks Fred!

[Alan Faulkner-Stevens]

While it is nice to hear of the latest work of Mr. Gray in keeping upto date details of the MkIV cars constructed by Autokraft, i just wanted to let Club members know that i and previous Club Registrars have been doing the same thing for many years. Due to the very limited information listed in the copy of the AC Build book the Club holds, with the help of the very informative members, it is the Club who has a great deal of information about individual cars, including detailed photographs. It is true however, the Club does not hold all the information about some cars, hence my suggestion to contact AC's Heritage department to see if they were prepared or able to release anything else.
   Ultimately, the Registry of information is to help Club members, perhaps respond to an important question about a specific vehicle should it arise and just to try to sort the wheat from the chaff in the future.
   To make the very best Registry, if the owners of the AC brand would be prepared to lend the Club its individual build records, all the information we hold along with each cars actual build spec could be incorporated into a Shelby American style registry, which has always been my hope.

[BBK]

quote:Originally posted by Alan Faulkner-Stevens
   
While it is nice to hear of the latest work of Mr. Gray in keeping upto date details of the MkIV cars constructed by Autokraft, i just wanted to let Club members know that i and previous Club Registrars have been doing the same thing for many years. Due to the very limited information listed in the copy of the AC Build book the Club holds, with the help of the very informative members, it is the Club who has a great deal of information about individual cars, including detailed photographs. It is true however, the Club does not hold all the information about some cars, hence my suggestion to contact AC's Heritage department to see if they were prepared or able to release anything else.
   Ultimately, the Registry of information is to help Club members, perhaps respond to an important question about a specific vehicle should it arise and just to try to sort the wheat from the chaff in the future.
   To make the very best Registry, if the owners of the AC brand would be prepared to lend the Club its individual build records, all the information we hold along with each cars actual build spec could be incorporated into a Shelby American style registry, which has always been my hope.
   
   

   
   Hi Alan.  I think your idea of the owners of the AC brand sharing such information with the Club is great.   Also, a similar registry of information such as the SAAC has would be a great idea.  As I am relatively new to the AC fold if you will, and not being in the thick of things in Britain like many members, I do not really have the background regarding the Club and its relationship with the owners of the brand. Has there been much dialogue with them regarding sharing of information like you suggest and what about use of the AC logo for the club?  I do not know the reasons why the Club cannot use the logo.  If they are not allowing it for some reason, it seems very short-sighted on their part.

[Alan Faulkner-Stevens]

I think the relationship between the Club and the owners of the AC brand has not been good for some time. In the past some members visited the MkV production Malta Factory and produced a great write up about it and have produced many nice editorial pages on the MkVI. However, despite what was a series of very generous write ups about these vehicles i feel we have been treated awfully. To have the Logo taken away from the Club was the best way of saying to Members, we really don't think much of you or your value to the brand. I did ask the previous Chairman about getting some of the original Factory build information for the MkIV Registry from the brand holders, but was told this would never happen. Of course, i may have not helped smooth the way here as i have have publically critised the build quality of the MkV ,shocking, and the shape of the MkVI, odd. I have also had quite strong disagreements with both John Owen and AC Heritage over problems with the CRS Suspension tower failure and the treatment of Lee Arganese and his damaged CRS. But fundamentally i am here to support Club members and if i have to use my engineering background, training and experience to stand up for an important point, i will. For any member this may have made getting information a little difficult for, i apologise. Despite this lack of help from some quarters, it strikes me from reading this forum, most members can get 95% of all the advice and help they need from the superb members around the globe and i thank you all for it.

[BBK]

Alan, thanks for the information on the relationship between the Club and the brand owners.  It is hard to understand why they would act the way they do.  Similar things can happen in other arenas, such as corporate takeovers, where a new owner treats the employees at the taken over company poorly and of little value.  Same concept...different venue. All that does is create ill will, and ultimately, works against the new owner.  Club enthusiasts are what create, in large part, the value of a brand by keeping interest and enthusiasm for the brand going.  Similar to what SAAC did for the Shelby brand.  I inquired with Steve Gray as to use of the AC logo by the Club and what he knew about that, and he advised that the Club was offered use of the logo for no charge but that there were certain conditions that were unacceptable to the Club that he would not comment further on.  I am not sure whether the information that Steve mentioned was correct or not, but I would think that a more or less unconditional use of the logo should have been offered, perhaps with a right of recision should the owner deem it necessary...but that is it.  I am not familiar of course with what was or was not offered to the Club so cannot comment knowledgeably.

[Chafford]

Steve Gray and his company AC Heritage has no control over the use of the AC logo. He is merely repeating what the AC brand owner, Alan Lubinsky has decided.  In terms of the AC product, the Mk V was rightly criticised as being of very poor quality and the MkVI prototype as being based too closely on the Dax replica. However, with the new 378 Zagato, the latest MkVI which is a very nice product, and the Mk11 Classic, AC's future looks a lot more rosy than it did a couple of years ago.

[BBK]

Yes...I do not believe that Steve has any say in the subject and was mentioning what he knew of the situation.  Has there been much discussion of Mr. Lubinsky on the ACOC forums?  Where is he located and how would one get a hold of him?  It would be interesting to know more about Mr. L. and what the history is of dealings with him.

[shep]

I think we are all singing from similar hymn sheets! One of my first actions following election as ACOC Chairman, was to contact Alan Lubinsky and Steve Gray, to ask if we could all meet with a view to working together in the future for the benefit of our ACOC Members, and the AC marque. Unfortunately John Owen's untimely death has delayed any such meting, but I did manage to meet Steve for a chat at Goodwood, and I am happy to meet Alan at any time. My intention is to bring everyone together to promote our common interests, and would advise a pinch of understanding and common sense, rather than criticising each other on a public forum. On another thread we explained the ACOC Register Policy, and all our Registers are constantly being improved, as new information comes to light. The ACOC has no commercial axe to grind, and its Registrars try at all times to be impartial, dealing only with known facts and not hearsay. Any interested party should first contact the appropriate ACOC Registrar for information, and any dispute with a Registrar should be referred to the ACOC Council of Management for resolution. Unfortunately with the appreciating values of our cars, there will be opportunists who hope to profit by misrepresenting vehicles which do not have the correct history. For that reason I thoroughly advise any potential purchaser to contact the appropriate ACOC Registrar prior to making any decisions. The better the history, normally the higher the price so as always it is Caveat Emptor, or Buyer Beware. That way there should not be any surprises. I am sure the ACOC would have no objection to sharing details of Brooklands produced cars with Steve Gray, if he wishes to record them, but would encourage the owners to ensure Alan Faulkner-Stevens has the correct information recorded on the Official ACOC Register. Post-Brooklands cars will be recorded in a new ACOC Register, presided over by Constant Wagner. This is a recent appointment, and will be publicised in the AC ACtion Magazine with his contact details. Best regards to all, Andy.

[BBK]

Hi Andy.  Seems like a very sound and reasonable course to follow!  I hope that such a meeting is facilitated...that would be great.  I have provided a fair amount of details and photos of my car to Alan Faulkner-Stevens for the Mk IV Register.  Thanks for your message.

[AK1131]

Please read my "No Respect" subject. All the reason more why we need an AC Heritage Registry for MKIV's.