A 427 with an interesting history!

[Chafford]

Recently on sale for £395,000 was this 427 which was present at Cholmondeley last week (and apparently on sale again).
   
   
   
   The car was described in the earlier advert as 'A genuine CSX numbered 427 Mk III, damaged and then totally rebuilt and converted to 'S/C' spec. by Cobra specialists in the USA in the 1970s, retaining its original chassis and the majority of its original panel-work, ancillaries and fittings..... An exceptionally rare opportunity to own an absolutely genuine 1966 '427' Cobra, priced to reflect that in the 1970s the original chassis plate was removed from this car in its damaged/pre-restored state, and transferred to a new replacement body/chassis unit (as stated in the Cobra Registries) with substantial accompanying documentation of the full history.'
   
   http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/find/4100_results.asp?sorderby=dtSubmitDate&fc=13&action=simple_search&lmanufacturer=*&next=4100_results.asp&bsubmit=true&lmostrecent=200&lCarID=1851584
   
   The ACOC Coil Spring Replica Register records that the car was built by Lynn Park in the US in 1979 using some parts from the original CSX 3272 when that car was rebuilt. Originally given chassis number CSX 3140 in 1979 but renumbered CSX 3272 in 2005, according to the Register.
   
   According to the Coil Spring Register, the car that has legal title to CSX 3272 is now in Indiana being rebuilt by Brian Angliss with a new body and chassis in the mid '70s after damage.
   
   Ned Scudder provided a recent insight into the car's background on the SAAC Forum website:
   
   'The car in the US was constructed with the title of 3272 but used a new Angliss chassis/ body composite. It alone has the legal chain of title for CSX 3272, even though it is not the original vehicle from the 1960s. The damaged chassis and body of 3272 was used in the construction of another car, but a car that did not have a identity until this car appeared and claimed a VIN that was actually someone else's. It was sold to Europe and existed there until the legal title for the VIN it was using was granted in the northeastern US, at which point the dealer who had the car did the right thing and removed the improper VIN. The car was then sold as a legitimate Cobra, but absent a VIN. A buyer was told that (a) the former VIN could not be proven, and (b) the former VIN could not be claimed by that car again. Apparently, however, the smell of cash has again warped people's perceptions if the car in Europe is attempting to call itself 3272. It has no claim to that number.' (Not suggested in the advert)
   
   Ned Scudder continues:
   
   '...the original 3272 was sideswiped. It owner at the time was given the choice of repairing it, or reconstructing it with a new chassis & body built by Autokraft (Brian Angliss). He chose the latter. (It is important to note that this was legal in CA at the time, but is not in most states.) This is the car that ended up in IL and, later, IN. The restoration shop became the owner of the wrecked car, and a customer decided to use it as the basis for a project. We believe, but can not prove, that the wrecked remains of 3272 were used as the basis for a car that appeared claiming to be 3140. But it wasn't a narrow-hip car, as 3140 should have been, and it had the hallmarks of a 32xx car. Further, it was unclear how 3140 had popped up in CA, as the history provided did not match at all what was known about the car in the northeast, where it had originated. This car, with the 3140 VIN, was sold to Europe. That was fine until the actual remains of 3140 surfaced in the northeast and it became clear that the "3140" sold to Europe had no viable claim on the chassis number. Once the current owner of the real remains of 3140 was granted legal title to them, the car in Europe became an "air-car" i.e. a car with a title created from thin air. Or. more clearly stated, an illegal title with no continuity in its chain of ownership. The dealer in Europe who had possession of the car was convinced that the car there was NOT the legitimate 3140. But nor could it be proven that it had once been 3272. So that car became what is, following great efforts at discovery, an original AC/ Shelby-built 427 Cobra, but with no chassis number that could be ascertained or legally proven. And given those circumstances, it is hard to fathom how the car in Europe can legitimately claim to be the one and only 3272 with a valid claim to the VIN. While we may not like the scenario, the law prevails, and we can't adjust it to fit the ideal outcome we might like to see.'
   
   I believe this is the car featured in 'Cobra, the First 40 Years'. It certainly has an interesting history!
   
   http://www.flickr.com/photos/19634747@N00/7428018430/in/pool-705968@N20/

[Chafford]

I asked Ned Scudder on the SAAC website about the status of this car and he gave this interesting response:
   
   A further question:
   
   Given that the recent advertisment of this car did not use the CSX 3272 VIN number and given your comment that this is an original AC/Shelby-built 427 Cobra albeit one without an identifiable chassis number, how would you describe this car - Replica (as the AC Owners Club does), 'Air-car' (difficult to pin this description on this car if the 3272 chassis number is not being claimed) or something else?
   
   
   Ned Scudder:
   
   I wouldn't call it either one. It is not a replica, as it was in fact a legitimate 60's-built Cobra, constructed by AC Cars and finished by Shelby American in the appropriate time period. Nor is it an "air-car," as it was not built from scratch without any valid claim to a VIN. It HAD a VIN, at one time, but through the vagaries of U.S. DMV laws, its owner was allowed to build a brand new car via Brian Angliss in the 70's and apply the original VIN to that car. At that point in time, the buyer of the salvage chose to claim the car was a Cobra with a different VIN entirely. But when you attempt to claim ownership of a VIN that, in this case, was pulled from thin air, reality often gets in the way, as it did here. Once the car that legitimately had claim to the VIN used on the recycled chassis showed up, albeit many years after the initial fraudulent action, the car could no longer masquerade as that chassis number. So the car is exactly as it has been described in the (SAAC)registry: a legitimate Cobra with a former chassis number that has been legally attached to a newer car, leaving this car as a more original example than its replacement and yet without a legitimate 1960's Cobra VIN. What is unfortunate but fairly typical is that the buyer of the salvage who initially claimed a chassis number he did not own suffered no consequences from his action, as he sold the car long before the real car was discovered. So the financial hit was taken by a subsequent owner. A nasty but not uncommon outcome, which is highly regrettable.
   
   http://saacforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ca6d22f383e05e3a52305c050fd25749&topic=18582.15
   
   Possibly some clarification is needed in the AC Registry?

[TLegate]

I suggest Ned's clear reply now closes the topic.

[Chafford]

quote:Originally posted by TLegate
   
I suggest Ned's clear reply now closes the topic.
   

   
   Can the fascinating, sometimes tortuous, history of any of the vintage Cobras ever be closed? [].

[nikbj68]

In some cases, yes. Please.

[Chafford]

222 UBX (CSX?)features in September's 'Classic and Sportscar' as part of their Cobra edition:
   
   http://www.classicandsportscar.com/news/general-classic-car-news/cobras-top-the-food-chain-in-september%E2%80%99s-csc
   
   And offered by Coys:
   
   http://www.coys.co.uk/showrooms.php?itemID=1900

[A-Snake]

aaron,
   
   FWIW, that shot is on the Classic Driver website. It appears as an ad from Auto-Salon-Singen. Scroll to bottom of the page.
   
   http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/find
   /4100_results.asp?sorderby=dtSubmitDate&fc=13&action=simple_search&lmanufacturer=*&next=4100_results.asp&bsubmit=true&lmostrecent=200&lCarID=1851584

[Chafford]

quote:Originally posted by A-Snake
   
aaron,
   
   FWIW, that shot is on the Classic Driver website. It appears as an ad from Auto-Salon-Singen. Scroll to bottom of the page.
   
   http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/find
   /4100_results.asp?sorderby=dtSubmitDate&fc=13&action=simple_search&lmanufacturer=*&next=4100_results.asp&bsubmit=true&lmostrecent=200&lCarID=1851584
   
   

   
   Link to the earlier advert not working - here's the correct link:
   
   http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/find/4100_results.asp?sorderby=dtSubmitDate&fc=13&action=simple_search&lmanufacturer=*&next=4100_results.asp&bsubmit=true&lmostrecent=200&lCarID=1851584
   
   To date, Coys are being a little bit coy with the information and pricing for this car on their website.  []

[nikbj68]

Coy? From your latest link, it says £395,000 and there appears to be full disclosure about it`s 'history', and it still says sold 21st May 2012.
   However, on COYS Showroom there is a great deal of unprecisenessness regarding price and history. []

[Chafford]

Different (earlier) advert - the latest one is:
   
   http://www.coys.co.uk/showrooms.php?itemID=1900

[Gus Meyjes]

Nik,
   
   I appreciate your efforts in furthering the proper dynamics of language and adopting lessons learned in Germany!

[Chafford]

Coys have emailed me the following extra info on 222 UBX:
   
   'The Cobra that we are offering is an example of the later, 'wide-hipped' 427s. Believed to have been supplied new by Shelby American in October 1966, the Cobra was acquired by Canadian Lynn Park in the mid 1970s and completely restored. The resulting car appeared at SAAC-6 in Monterey in August 1981, where it was voted the "Best 427 street Cobra".  It was also featured in the January 1982 issue of 'Popular Hot Rodding', as well as the May 1982 issue of Car Exchange.  The car was sold in 1985 to ex-President of Paramount Films Frank Mancusso and purchased in 1987 by noted Cobra collector Harley Cluxton of Phoenix, Arizona.
   
   The Cole Yacoobian group acquired it in late '87, advertising it the following year for the then not-inconsiderable sum of $250K.  The car was featured in the magazine, Muscle Cars of the '80's, vol 1, #1, the editor proclaiming that the car is widely regarded by AC Cobra owners as one of the nicest around - very original and very correct". The Cobra was subsequently sold to a Spanish collector who kept it for a number of years until it was purchased in 2005 by the current owner through marque expert Rod Leach.
   
   Beautifully presented in Rangoon Red paintwork with black leather upholstery and hood and tan tonneau and sidescreens, this Cobra has a delightful patina. The 427ci big block engine has been rebuilt by Knight Racing Services and is in fine fettle, starting easily and performing strongly accompanied by an outrageous, spine-tingling soundtrack from the side exiting exhausts. Indeed, as stated in the September 2012 issue of Classic and Sportscar Magazine where this car featured on the cover, 'the acceleration truly is that most over-used of American adjectives - awesome'. And this fearsome Cobra is not just fast but also civilised 'the real revelation, though, is just how well-mannered this 150mph plus car is in traffic' enthused Julian Balme.
   
   The word icon is often used inaccurately to describe a car however in the case of the AC Cobra its use is entirely appropriate. Manufactured in limited numbers, with purposeful yet graceful lines and with giant killing performance on road or track, the Cobra is rightfully considered to be one of the all-time greats and the example we are offering here is arguably the very best one available today.
   
   We are inviting offers around £425,000 for this epic 60's sports car.'

[nikbj68]

Hmmm... No mention of the chassis number 'issues' in that info pack, unlike the more concise details in the previous advert.

[CRS9505]

Come on guys lighten up, [] didn't it look good in the mud with the rest of us.......and as for value how much was that Aston - £1.27M for a new car... also in the mud with the rest of us!
   If you have that sort of money to spend on a car then you should be smart enough to establish for yourself whether the pedigree satisfies your own needs and standards. After all you are going to own it and drive it and at the end of the day you may never go to an AC meeting where the tutting finger of damnation will be pointed. After all were there not 2 fibreglass replicas on the Club pitch at Donnington? [:0]

[nikbj68]

It certainly did look fantastic at Cholmondeley, I must get some photos up!
   Here are a couple from ChumMUDley, the Cobra, and it`s info board: