1958 Sebring ? / Neat Old Photo

[rr64]

Is this a member's car?
   
   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Very-Rare-8-X-10-1958-Sebring-AC-Ace-Bristol-/180704464981?pt=US_Racing_Fan_Shop&hash=item2a12d35055

[Jam2]

I assume that the photo was from the 12hr race on 22nd March '58.  I wonder why both cars in the photo seem to be No.38.  There were 3 other Ace's  No.37 (BEX 229): 72 and 39.

[Jim A]

The near Ace does not appear to be race prepared.  I'd guess that the "T" is for something like "temporary" allowing the car on the track under the numbers assigned to AC.

[AC Ace Bristol]

quote:Originally posted by Jam2
   
I assume that the photo was from the 12hr race on 22nd March '58.  I wonder why both cars in the photo seem to be No.38.  There were 3 other Ace's  No.37 (BEX 229): 72 and 39.
   

   
   Nice interesting Black and White Photo.
   
   Ace Bristol number 37 in 1958 Sebring 12 hour was driven by DR Richard Milo in BEX229.
   
   Ace Bristol Number 37 in 1960 Sebring 12 hour could be BEX183...[?][?]
   
   Ace Bristol number 35 in 1960 Sebring 12 hour  was driven by Schoeder/Mazzi and could be BEX487.... [?]..[?]
   
   Can any one confirm ID of any of the Ace's raced at Sebring 12hr during late 1950s and early 1960s.[?].
   
   Details, Photos and Photo copy of official race program/s required to complement data in official ACOC Ace Bristol Register..[]
   
   
   Cheers..Thanking you in anticipation.
   
   Keith..[]

[jrlucke]

Racing ports Cars show 1 AC Ace entered in 1956 (John Dressel) then 3 in 57 with the last one in 1962 (Richard Kingham).
   
   http://www.racingsportscars.com/races/search.html?track=Sebring
   
   John

[bex316]

Wasn't BEX 183 the Dressel/Pohanka car that crashed badly in the 1957 Venezuelan GP? I have a photo of the crash somewhere, just need time to find it. I am sure it is also in Keith's archive. Not 100% sure about this car's identity but since a few years it is also stated as such in Tony's register.
   
   Jerry

[jrlucke]

The entries for 1958 show:
   #37 - BEX229 Milo/McClure/Furlong
    38 - BEX258 Love/Jackson-Moore/Crowder
    39 - UNK    Fuller/Tweedale/Briggs/Day
    72 - BEX297 Stear/Norris/Harris/Dressel/Woodbury
    73 - UNK    Casner/Jordan/Campbell
   
   1960 shows 3 factory cars and 1 private entry, #73 driven by O'Sullivan/Proctor/Stevens and with Jack Fernandez listed as entered but did not drive (would this be BEX155?).
   
   The 1960 listing shows photos of the entries.
   
   John

[AC Ace Bristol]

Jerry.
   
   You are right, BEX183 was the dressel Ace that got hit by Stirling Moss in  a Maserati causing it to become airborne hit a tree or lamp standard and split in two.
   
   I too  have a photo of Dressel's Ace in two pieces with another Ace or two passing by in the backgound.
   
   Tony Bancroft, Tim Isles, Stephen Phel ,  Jerry Van Kalleven and I plus various other AC enthusiasts can often marry racing numbers to various Pilots, but cannot ID the Chassis number/s of some of the Aces raced in Period......... Any Info always appreciated, []
   
   John.. (JR Lucke) .
   
   Thank you for the link and info, During your research and ramdom visits to numerous web sites, Can you positively ID any other Aces raced in Period on your side of the Pond .[?] East Coast to  West Coast and anywhere in between..[].
   
   Cheers... Keith...[]..[]

[shep]

Hi yo'all,
   
   When I spotted the photo I thought it looked a lot like my Ace BEX193 which was shipped to Virginia in 1956. We all dream of racing heritage, but there is something about the NS headlight being higher than the OS one which made me look twice. Subsequently it was owned by A Jackson in 1969, but I don't have any history. As far as the photo goes, having two cars with the same number with one suffixed T, was common as the T Car was denoted "Training" or a spare in case the first failed in qualifying. Andy.

[tim isles]

Andy,
   
   It's interesting to me that you think your car and '38T' may be one and the same. It appears to be fitted with the factory roll over hoop - was your car once so equipped? If your car still has the two flat plates (or signs of them) welded to the horizontal tube in the boot above the rear spring then this could be another clue. If it is your BEX 193 it does look to be in good condition for a '56 car - if it was raced I think maybe it had a cautious driver! But of course it could be straight from the paint shop too.
   
   In answer to rr64's question regarding the second car, car #38, in the absence of any conflicting information I would assume this car to be Bill Love's much campaigned BEX 258 - it certainly looks to have led a hard life. This car is very much a survivor and owned by a Club member.
   
   Tim

[Jim A]

My comment about the "T" car was based on my idea that few Aces were raced with the full size windshield and passenger seat in place.
   They did take off the bumpers.

[aex125]

The Roll Bar looks very similar to the one that was in Ak Miller's Ace that he took to Bonneville and set some land speed records with. Since Ak had stated his car was originally raced at the Sebring in '58, maybe 38T became Ak's car that went to Bonneville. Unfortunately, if the car from the pic became Ak's car, I believe it no longer exists as it was later rebodied as a Devin for Pike's Peak runs where it was identified as a Cobra/Devin.
   
   
   
   Jay

[AC Ace Bristol]

Great photograph of Ace Bristol number 38T.
   
   Used for training Practice for the 1958 Sebring 12 hour.
   
   Another picture of the same Ace is to be found in Tony Bancrofts  Ace Bristol Racing Book, on page 93.  Wearing the same number 38T, same windscreen sticker etc... Has to be the Same Ace!
   
   It was assumed to have been taken at Watkins Glen Ca in 1961,we can now correctly date the photo as having been taken at the 1958 Sebring 12 hour, thanks to the rare 8 by 10 B & W picture that started this thread.
   
   Now..... Can any one ACtualy  Identify this Ace ?
   
   Keith .[]

[tim isles]

Sebring. I'm spurred on to write this following rr64's link to the '58 Sebring photograph of the Bill Love car and car # '38T'.
   
   Together with Le Mans, the annual Sebring 12 Hours appears to me to have been the highest level of competition that Aces took part in (I'd have to add the 1957 Venezuela GP as well, when six Aces were entered, but this race was unique.)
   
   As is known, Sebring was an annual round of the World Sports Car Championship and run under FIA rules. Aces shared the track with the world's greatest drivers - in no particular order Fangio, Moss, Hawthorn, Behra, Gregory, Bonnier, Von Trips, Collins to mention just a few; you name them and they were there.
   
   That said, it seems to me sitting on this side of the pond that tales (with a few notable exceptions recorded in books by Tony Bancroft and Rinsey Mills) from this great race are few and far between, but perhaps that's because I'm not so well informed.
   
   Anyway, with the aim of stimulating discussion, adding to the subject, producing long forgotten photographs (and perhaps trying to emulate the superb thread run by Louis Monnier on Le Mans), I offer my limited grasp of this race in the hope that those more enlightened than me will be able add to the sum of knowledge that is there already for the benefit of us all.
   
   I believe that Aces were represented in the Sebring 12 hours from 1956 to 1962, but rather than offer my understanding of entries, cars and drivers over these seven years all in one go I'll do it year by year over the next few days.
   
   So, 1956, one car entered, AE 90 (yes, a RHD Ace), racing # 37, entered (and owned?) by Hap Dressel, who went on to run AC Imports of Arlington, Va. There is a good picture of this car in the pits at this link:
   
          http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Sebring-1956-03-24.html
   
   Co-drivers were down as Bill Woodbury and Frank Pohanka. At the a/m RSC site Frank Pohanka is down as not driving, but I find this a bit strange as Frank co-drove with Hap on a number of occasions.
   
   Contemporary reports suggest that Mr Weller's 'Light Six' never missed a beat, the car only pitting to refresh the vital fluids and coming home a creditable 18th place and 4th in class.
   
   The car exists to this day - here's a link  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cIOcwB9Rn0
   
   Can anyone add anything?
   
   1957 entries to follow.

[AC Ace Bristol]

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   .
   Tim ..  ..
   
   Should make a great thread,
   
   If the guys on the otherside of the pond can dig through their family photo Albums, the odd box of photos and racing programms gathering dust in the back of the odd cupboard / draw and in the family archives.
   
   Our US AC owners / enthusiasts and Classic Sports racing enthusiasts, MUST HAVE greater access to material being on the right side of the Pond.   Please start digging!!
   
   There should be more info available than of the 24hr Le Mans, so this new thread should hopefully produce even more material than generated in Louis Monniers great thread on "Aces raced at Le Mans 24hr". . []
   
   Knowing  Tim's enthusiasm and thoroughness in researching his series of articles "Aces Raced in Venezuela" published in ACtion  and his archive material on various Aces raced at Sebring in the mid 1950s through to early 1960s, This thread should run and run,[:p].
   
   If I can add the odd picture or snippet to complement this thread I will.
   
   In the meantime, I look forward to viewing new material and reading how the AC Ace contributed to the History of The Sebring 12 Hr
   
   Keith..[]..[]