AC Ace Brooklands 1995 - electric hood problem

[Alison Kingdon]

Hi  I have been left a AC Ace Brooklands.  Unfortunately the electric hood is not working.
   
   Any advice or suggestions would be  greatly appreciated.  In the process of trying to replcae the ECU.
   
   What else should should be checked.

[Wally]

Hi Alison, Welcome to the forum.
   
   I don't know how technical you are but hope this info may help.
   
   There are at least two fuses involved, one for the hydraulic pump and one for the ecu. As far as I know both are in the boot and may be near the battery but I am not sure.
   
   The main switch for up/dowm may be faulty, this would have to be tested with volt meter etc to prove good or bad.
   
   There are also several small switches, one on the handbrake lever to ensure you are stationary when operating the hood, one on the hood lid catch to ensure the catch is released before the hydraulic rams try opening it, and at least two possibly three more on the hydraulic rams themselves to ensure one procedure has finished before the next one starts.
   
   I have also found that the ecu is very voltage sensitive in that if the battery voltage is down in the slightest then the hood will not operate, fully charged battery or engine running and all works fine.
   
   As you can see from the above, you will have to be very carefull because if the rams operate when they should not you will cause a lot of damage.
   
   The hood can be lifted or lowered manually but it will take a lot of effort to force the oil around the system and can only be done slowly because of this.
   
   If you do try manually, have somebody operate the hood as normal, eg, ignition on, handbrake on and press the up or down. Assuming the hood is down, first of all listen for the hood catch operating, if this clicks try lifting the hood lid. If the resistance of lifting the hood varies depending on if the up button is depressed or not this may indicate that the ecu is working and opening the hydraulic valves but the pump itself is not working. If the hood is up (and bearing in mind you have just got the vehicle) you have to manually operate the locking handle on the hood and then push the hood up and back until the front section is nearly vertical before the hood will operate via the hydraulics.
   
   Hope this helps.
   
   Wally

[DGoose]

Hi Alison,
   
   Welcome to Ace ownership.
   
   Several things to check prior to replacing the ECU (if you can find one)
   
   Power hood problems are a well known issue with these cars so it would be worth scanning through previous forum posts.
   
   Some basics.
   
   If motor doesn't run.
   Check fuses in boot!
   Check micro switch's on right of hood frame and handbrake mechanism (hood should only work if hand brake is applied)maybe late cars only !
   
   If motor runs
   Check fluid level in pump reservoir.
   If fluid level OK clean out any sludge and refill.
   If fluid is low, re-fill and check hydraulic pipes and rams for leaks.
   Check wiring harness and plugs.
   
   The pump, solenoids and manifold are all standard Peugeot 306 Cabriolet so readily available via e-bay. The ECU looks like the Peugeot unit but is bespoke to AC.
   The original manufacturers of the ECU (Dutch company whose name I can't remember)
   weren't interested in servicing or repairing my ECU when I contacted them last year.
   
   If you have to change the Hydraulic fluid the hood has to be raised and lowered manually to prime the rams.
   
   Does the power hood light stay constant or does it flash when activated?
   
   David

[Max Allan]

Hi Alison. I rarely look at the forum these days, so have only just seen your request for info regarding hood problem. Have you sorted the problem?
   My Ace came minus hood and a few years ago I was fortunate in obtaining one. However, fitting and getting it to work proved a major challenge. As a consequence I gained a fair knowledge of its workings. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
   
   Max

[AcemanToo]

Hi Alison,
   
   It's possibly a bit late in the day but get in touch with Autotek, Unit 11, Wessex Trade Centre,Ringwood Road,Poole, Dorset BH12 3PQ. Their phone number is 0871 983 7424. I've used them twice, once to repair the hood ECU and the second time to check it after the hood mechanism stopped working a couple of years ago. They charged me about £300 I seem to remember and also told me that all the circuitry was the saem as for a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet! The ECU for one of those is about £2500 I've been told! They also repair all sorts of other auto electrical stuff from airflow meters, fuel injection and engine ECUs of all types. Not exactly cheap, but highly recommended!
   
   
   
   
   

quote:Originally posted by Alison Kingdon
   
Hi  I have been left a AC Ace Brooklands.  Unfortunately the electric hood is not working.
   
   Any advice or suggestions would be  greatly appreciated.  In the process of trying to replcae the ECU.
   
   What else should should be checked.
   

[AcemanToo]

Hi Max,
   I'm hoping your visits are a little more frequent and you pick this message up!
   I have a 1995 Ace and the hood has given up the ghost. The ECU checks out (see my other post to Allison on this) and both fuses are fine (5 amp and 30 amp close to battery). The pump motor is newish, fluid level fine and no leaks. I don't get any of the leds lighting on the dash when the ignition is turned on although they always used to work. The hood operating switch checks out but I'm not getting any power appearing at it for some reason. At the same time as I lost the hood operation, the wipers stopped the intermittent function. Could the two be connected? Does the primary live feed to the hood switch come from the ignition switch? I've yet to take the dash out but I suspect the problem in my case is somewhere there. Any suggestions on dash removal for access would also be welcomed!!
   Thanks for any help!
   Regards,
   Patrick.
   
   
   

quote:Originally posted by Max Allan
   
Hi Alison. I rarely look at the forum these days, so have only just seen your request for info regarding hood problem. Have you sorted the problem?
   My Ace came minus hood and a few years ago I was fortunate in obtaining one. However, fitting and getting it to work proved a major challenge. As a consequence I gained a fair knowledge of its workings. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
   
   Max
   

[ACOCArch]

quote:Originally posted by Alison Kingdon
   
Hi  I have been left a AC Ace Brooklands.  Unfortunately the electric hood is not working.
   
   Any advice or suggestions would be  greatly appreciated.  In the process of trying to replcae the ECU.
   
   What else should should be checked.
   

   
   There are a few manuscript notes in the archive, which probably originated at Brooklands or Frimley.
   
   One confirms AutoTeck at Poole BH12 3PQ for hood ECU repairs. (See post above.)
   
   A personal recollection from visiting Brooklands circa Y2000 is of development work continuing on the hood mechanism, and the use of some Audi components. Having the door windows down a fraction was also essential and failure to do so would result in broken glass!

[Max Allan]

Oh dear! Think I should have kept my mouth shut – reckon I’ve forgotten most of what I learnt about the vagaries of Brooklands hood operation. To make matters worse I seem to have lost the CD  I had containing Brookland wiring diagrams - not that I ever found it much use – nothing ever tallied.
   
   Patrick, you say you’ve checked the 5 amp line fuse, but don’t say if you have 12v at the fuse with ignition ON? If yes, problem is likely to be one of the relays or micro switches. If not,  its likely circuit is protected by another fuse in the main fuse box, which has blown (which might explain the loss of intermittent wipers). If you have 12v let me know and I’ll put myself on a crash refresher course and hopefully come up with some pointers.
   Cheers
   Max

[AcemanToo]

Most kind of you Sir!
   
   I shall take a look at the wiring over the next couple of days to see if there's any current flowing. I suspect not. I'm still fairly convinced that the problem lies behind the dash somewhere.  I've checked the main and subsid fuse boxes and all is in order. Relays are a bit trickier. The key symptom would seem to be that there's no power appearing at the hood up/down switch. I thought of taking a direct feed to the switch to see what happens but I'm not too sure if that's a good idea or not. Any thoughts on that one? Anyway, many thanks for your response. I'll let you know what happens - hopefully it won't be yet another Ace fire......
   
   Regards,
   
   Patrick.
   

quote:Originally posted by Max Allan
   
Oh dear! Think I should have kept my mouth shut – reckon I’ve forgotten most of what I learnt about the vagaries of Brooklands hood operation. To make matters worse I seem to have lost the CD  I had containing Brookland wiring diagrams - not that I ever found it much use – nothing ever tallied.
   
   Patrick, you say you’ve checked the 5 amp line fuse, but don’t say if you have 12v at the fuse with ignition ON? If yes, problem is likely to be one of the relays or micro switches. If not,  its likely circuit is protected by another fuse in the main fuse box, which has blown (which might explain the loss of intermittent wipers). If you have 12v let me know and I’ll put myself on a crash refresher course and hopefully come up with some pointers.
   Cheers
   Max
   

[Max Allan]

Hi Patrick
   
   Many of the components controlling hood operation are connections to earth, so don’t recommend tracking down the cause of problem by indiscriminately applying 12v and “blowing” something. Ideally use a volt meter to check continuity and voltages.
   
   I’m almost certain the up/ down switch is an earth connection, but without the wiring CD (which currently I can’t find) I can’t be certain. Worst case scenario, I’ll check out relays on my own car and report back what to expect at various terminals, but first check you have 12v at fuse.
   
   Max

[DGoose]

Hello Max,
   
   When your CD turns up would it be possible to purchase a copy?
   
   There are certainly differences to the wiring harnesses on the cars I own but a schematic of some sort would be very useful.
   
   Many thanks for your previous posts on hood issues, very helpful.
   
   Kind regards,
   
   David

[ACOCArch]

quote:Originally posted by Max Allan
   
........... without the wiring CD (which currently I can’t find)............  Max
   

   
   Hi Max,
   When your CD turns up,could we have a copy for the AC Owners' Club Archive please?
   Regards,  John

[bnwood]

Hello everyone,
   I have a CD which I will copy and send down. You need Turbo Cad to open it though. I had trouble with my hood but it is now working.
   To start the process here are the basic operations which everyone else has mentioned:
   1.Hand brake on
   2.Lower windows to half open at least
   3.Undo center catch and open the hood about a foot
   4.Operate the switch either way and the red light in the switch should light up. I think it is back to lower
   Sometimes the hood will complete the whole cycle. sometimes it stops and I have to release the switch and then press again. You have to hold the switch for the duration of the operation.
   If the light does not come on has the bulb blown in the switch? This may break the circuit if it has, but do not know for sure.
   Good Luck

[Wally]

We have used "Free DWG Viewer" to view the wiring diagrams.
   
   Link - http://www.bravaviewer.com/download.htm
   
   You will find it at the bottom of the download page.
   
   Hope this helps.
   
   Wally

[AcemanToo]

First of all, many thanks to all of you for contributing to this particular thread. Next, Max, I've tested the 3 amp fused circuit to see what I'm getting in the way of voltage, and here are the (confusing) results! Ignition off - battery showing 12.54 volts (been standing for a couple of weeks). With the ignition off, I'm getting 3.54 to 3.62 volts showing at the fuse holder with the fuse out. Ignition on - 3.39 volts across the fuse holder. Engne running gives 6.29 volts at the same fuse holder. The battery is getting 14.6 to 15.2 volts with the engine running. I've checked the fuses behind the centre panel and under the bonnet in the main fuse box but none are blown. I'm now more confused than ever.....!!! Regards, Patrick.