Shelby Cobra 50 Years - new book

[A-Snake]

quote:Originally posted by ACOCArch
   
A very early CSX Cobra in the Thames Ditton England factory in 1962. Note the AC Two-Litre saloons and other ACs behind the screen.
   
   
   

   
   Is it possible to make out the two emblems on the front of the car in your photo? I can not on the image you posted. Thank you

[J Jones]

Interesting photo.
   
   No side vents (as on previous "1962" photo), but the same wheel arches.
   
   The rectangular emblem on the flank near the drivers door is the same shape as the "Ford" tags seen on Cobras.
   
   Center location of the fuel filler on the rear deck is the same as the "1962" photo.
   
   No sunvisors on the above car.
   
    I have a Frua.I've noticed detail differences on all Fruas I have seen. These cars were "bespoke". All slightly different. By order? By chance? Cost or supply issues?
   
   Who knows?
   
   All AC 428 Fruas (however) have side vents. Useless on these cars (inner fender blocked airflow).  The vents themselves are identical in construction to those on "original Cobras". (So I've been told by an expert who has dealt with Cobras for 40 years).
   
   Presumably they are effective in "Cobras".
   
   These vents were (by the time the Fruas were being constructed) a styling detail that identified a kinship with "Cobras". I imagine  Mr. Frua tacked them on to fulfill his styling brief.
   
   Who's responsible for changes in details? Might it be the person for whom the car was built? Maybe. Mr Shelby might have said 'I need more airflow in the engine bay. Do what you can.'
   
   Or maybe everyone building the car was drunk, and they just did ...whatever....(hic)
   
   Here's a car I saw some time ago. It was badged BOTH "AC" and "Shelby". "AC" on the boot, "Shelby" on the prow.
   
   http://www.heritageclassics.com/past-inventory/detail/127-ac-cobra-mk-i-.html

[Chafford]

quote:Originally posted by aaron
   
Chafford we never realised that the AC Ace looked so similar to a Cobra untill you posted these photos !!
   

   
   And neither did Mr Comer according to his book []

[Chafford]

quote:Originally posted by J Jones
   
   Here's a car I saw some time ago. It was badged BOTH "AC" and "Shelby". "AC" on the boot, "Shelby" on the prow.
   
   http://www.heritageclassics.com/past-inventory/detail/127-ac-cobra-mk-i-.html
   
   

   
   Looks like this badge:
   
   

[J Jones]

Yes. It was maybe 10 years ago that I saw the car. I think thats it. Or at least, I've seen that badge on an AC at Heritage Classics. (my recollection is hazy. I seem to remember seeing an unplated AC roundel - though I might be merging memories of another car)
   
   I am really not knowledgable enough RE: Cobra lore to be chiming in about all this. I've never even seen Trevor's book. I DO see a copy is available on Amazon for $285.00.
   
   Time for an updated edition? (Update? Whaa? The cars were built more than 40 years ago!)(but theres always room for improvement!)

[Flyinghorse]

There are a few reasonably priced  "legate/cobra" options on www.abebooks.com

[ACOCArch]

[/quote]
   
   Looks like this badge:
   
   
   [/quote]
   
   The badging of US market Cobras is a bit of a minefield and, apparently, was a cause of some aggravation between Thames Ditton and US. Rinsey Mills' book 'Original AC Ace and Cobra' has a good summary.
   
   This is my own understanding for the early leaf-spring cars, based on the evidence I have, but which is far from being a complete account of period badges!
   
   a.When they left Thames Ditton, the earliest CSX Cobras carried AC roundal badges, as per the Two-Litre and AC-engined Aces, at the front. This is supported by some of the photos of these cars in US (see The Shelby American Original Archives Page 15).
   
   b.The first Cobra to appear on US roads carried a script 'Shelby' insignia on both front and rear.
   
   c. When first sold in the US, CSX cars up to 2054 had the elongated 'AC Shelby Cobra' badge, shown in the post above, at the front and rear. This is supported by period articles and advertising which, confusingly, often mentioned AC, Shelby and Ford, but not always all 3 at the same time! For example, the Sept 1962 R&T road test is entitled 'AC - Ford Cobra'; the March 1963 Car and Driver 'Road Research Report' is entitled 'AC Cobra', despite the car clearly carrying the elongated badge above!
   
   To add to the confusion, Cobras were homologated 'Shelby American' with the FIA for racing. But, 'AC Cobras' were clearly entered in European races including Le Mans. How did that work?
   
   If you have made it this far across the minefield, then well done!
   
   John

[nikbj68]

quote:Originally posted by ACOCArch...The badging of US market Cobras is a bit of a minefield...If you have made it this far across the minefield, then well done!  John

One thing we do know fersure...each and every Cobra ever built, inlcuding the Daytonas, started life with 'AC' Clutch & Brake pedals!

[A-Snake]

John,
   
   Thank you for your reply. The detail I could not see clearly in the photo was whether the car pictured had two emblems on the front. An AC emblem and the early AC/Shelby emblem. Photos of CSX2001 in the US by the first owner show two emblems.
   
   Thanks,
   Jim
   
   

[Louism]

Not to add some mines to the field...
   
   Just read what Doug Nye wrote in the TNF forum about a similar question:
   
   Perfectly fair comment from the American point of view - but from the land of the cars' origination and manufacture it REALLY pissed us off to see these agricultural hybrids being described as 'Shelby American' products, when all the colonials did ...it seemed to us... was to fit a Ford V8 engine and market the things with the usual heavy application of BS. In period we always talked about these things being 'AC' Cobras until the Daytona Coupe appeared, and that was a proper quality product which absolutely captured even our respect. I dismissed the Cobra roadsters then, and since, as a bit of a laugh, otherwise a bunch of uncultured junk. The Daytona Coupe changed all that. It was only at that point that here in the UK that we began to take 'Shelby American' really seriously - as did, perforce, Mr Ferrari.
   
   
   Good english lesson also for me.[]

[Gus Meyjes]

I suppose that is not an entirely fair view either. Shelby, Miles and Remington did do a lot of work to make the Cobra race worthy and reliable with the high power output... The 427 was an entirely new design, involving Ford's computers...

[A-Snake]

quote:Originally posted by Louism
   

   
   Just read what Doug Nye wrote in the TNF forum about a similar question:
   
   
   

   
   
   Do you have a link to that forum? Thanks

[Louism]

quote:Originally posted by A-Snake
   
   
   Do you have a link to that forum? Thanks
   

   
   http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=84603&st=0&start=0

[A-Snake]

quote:Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
   
I suppose that is not an entirely fair view either. Shelby, Miles and Remington did do a lot of work to make the Cobra race worthy and reliable with the high power output... The 427 was an entirely new design, involving Ford's computers...
   

   
   For the sake of clarity[] here is an additional paragraph from Nye on that forum.
   
   "In the AC Ace chassis/body/suspension combination Carroll Shelby had properly identified potential to accommodate Detroit horsepower in style, with reasonably 'modern' road-holding, braking and handling to match - attributes which seemed a mystery to the US industry of the time. AC Cars at Thames Ditton had the capacity to manufacture in the quantity he required. For the fans of these things it was a match wrought in heaven - neither one would have achieved what the hybrid marque did without the other."

[ACOCArch]

   
   This photo is of the front of CSX 2000 whilst having the engine and gearbox fitted in the US - photo courtesy 'The Shelby American Original Archives'.
   
   The caption in the book says:
   
   a. '.... the first production Cobra'. The factory ledger records the first production car, CSX 2001, was painted in UK whilst CSX 2000 was delivered unpainted. Therefore, the car in the photo is most probably the prototype, which was despatched from Thames Ditton on 20th Feb 1962.
   
   b. 'The AC Badge ... was soon removed'! A second photo, with the Shelby insignia painted on the bare shell, shows the mounting holes for the original AC badge still unfilled. A third photo shows the boot lid with a hole in it where the badge would be fitted.
   
   Safe to say I think the photo above shows how CSX 2000 left England.
   
   I have looked closely at the original of the photo of the car at Thames Ditton and there is only one badge on the nose. It is not clear whether this is 'AC' or 'Cobra'
   
   There is no indication on the photo which car this is, but it must have been between CSX 2001 (July 1962) and 2017 (Sept 1962) as the photo was published with the UK announcement in October 1962. By that time the Cobra model name had been decided.
   
   I have no recollection or record of cars bearing the elongated badge, or more than one badge, on the nose of cars in the UK. Later photos of COB and COX leaf-spring cars for Europe and ROW invariably show the cars with a single round Cobra badge on the nose - even when new outside the Thames Ditton factory.
   
   In conclusion, from this evidence for the early CSX Cobras:
   
   a.Just a few cars, and possibly only one, were despatched from UK with AC badges on the nose.
   
   b. As the Cobra model name had not been decided when CSX 2000 was shipped, it is logical that an AC badge would be fitted by the factory.
   
   c. When despatched from UK, the cars had one badge on the nose and one on the boot.
   
   d. Cars between CSX 2001 and CSX 2054 sold in US had elongated 'AC Shelby Cobra' badges fitted before they were sold.
   
   e.There is no evidence that the elongated badges were fitted in the UK.
   
   The minefield has not been cleared!
   
   John