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[Gus Meyjes]

I think we should simply stay with the "Heritage" classification and specify which car has been finished by whom and where the Chassis/body were produced, to go back to the idea of "built buy AC craftsmen in an AC factory". There are a few cars out there, built by Steve Grey and now one by me, but I learned there are a number of chassis/bodies stacked up somewhere ready to be completed (where did these come from?).
   
    There is also the RS car built by Rod Leach, based on a saloon, he is advertising now, so unless all these cars are sorted, at some point they will pass for the "real deal" as some Air car Cobras have.
   
   Gus

[Classicus]

I think in the final analysis it's a question of putting oneself in the future buyer's shoes really....[]

[Emmanueld]

"And where has the 2 litre  gone"
   
   It was probably a rusted bucket! Again for this type of car I would prefer the term " reproduction" rather than "replica" which seems more exact and less dismissive. This is indeed a beautiful car! Replica to me is more for "the MG with a VW engine"
   
   Emmanuel[]

[Gus Meyjes]

Actually,
   
   This car should be in the Ac 2 litre registry, with a special note attached describing the reproduction, stating the only thing original about this car is the chassis plate. It is a very well done car, but for all intents and purposes, this car was not built by "AC craftsmen in an AC factory" and none of the chassis and body parts were produced by AC or retained from the 2 litre, making this a "replica".
   
   Funny how many opinions there can be on the same topic...
   
   Gus

[ANF289]

quote:Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
   
Actually,
   
   This car should be in the Ac 2 litre registry, with a special note attached describing the reproduction, stating the only thing original about this car is the chassis plate. It is a very well done car, but for all intents and purposes, this car was not built by "AC craftsmen in an AC factory" and none of the chassis and body parts were produced by AC or retained from the 2 litre, making this a "replica".
   
   Funny how many opinions there can be on the same topic...
   
   Gus
   

Agree.  This is the exact reason the SAAC first started including the Mk IV in its registry, and why they have expanded it to include cobra replicas.  Simply protecting the perceived purity of their anglo-american mongrel. []

[Gus Meyjes]

That is the exact point why ACOC needs to move forward with this. Aside from the fact that an excellently kept up registry has at the least maintained values of all of the Shelby cars, but more than likely contributed significantly to their value, as prospective buyers had a much better record of the cars available to them when making a purchase. Which is what I propose would be the value to ACOC and all of the owners of "genuine" AC cars, whatever their provenance might be. The market will decide on value. The registry of heritage cars will in no way detract from cars built in the 50's and 60's and it will not add value to the Heritage cars. But it will be recorded what is what and having a complete registry will help values overall as there will be more confident buyers.
   
   Gus

[Gus Meyjes]

quote:Originally posted by Classicus
   
I think in the final analysis it's a question of putting oneself in the future buyer's shoes really....[]
   
   

   
   Without a doubt, as long as the buyer knows what he is buying...
   
   Gus

[Gus Meyjes]

I'm assuming the chassis plate was used simply to obtain a 1960's registration. I don't think Mr Leach is attempting to fool anybody. Building a car from scratch at this quality is an expensive undertaking. The price, I'm sure, will allow for some room for negotiation. As I've said before, it would be interesting to see what the car actually sells for. I'm also sure that Mr. Leach, with his long history in selling the marque, has a keen understanding of where to price the car in the market.
   
    I see no real problem with what he has done (other than losing the 2 litre), as long as it's clearly advertised what it is and the buyer knows what he's getting into. People with money buy what they want, they don't necessarily look for authenticity and at this price it still is considerably less than a fully restored 1960's RS car. Someone will enjoy that car a lot.
   
   Case in point:
   
   http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/galleries/custom-cars/427-billet-chassis/427-billet-chassis-book
   
   Not a "real" Shelby, a lot more money...
   
   This is in part also why Kirkham deserves his reputation for building quality cars.

[Gus Meyjes]

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   

quote:Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
   
Actually,
   
   This car should be in the Ac 2 litre registry, with a special note attached describing the reproduction, stating the only thing original about this car is the chassis plate. It is a very well done car, but for all intents and purposes, this car was not built by "AC craftsmen in an AC factory" and none of the chassis and body parts were produced by AC or retained from the 2 litre, making this a "replica".
   
   Funny how many opinions there can be on the same topic...
   
   Gus
   

   
   My view is that this car shouldn't be described as an AC Ace by Mr Leach in his advertising. The car would have more credibility without the EL 1558 chassis plate, which isn't going to fool anyone who can afford the £145k asking price.
   
   I can't help comparing the looks of this car with RS5038 being discussed elsewhere though - I'll have both!:
   
   
   EL1558
   
   
   
   
   RS5038
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

   
   I may be biased, but what a lovely car RS 5038 is!

[Emmanueld]

Gus I agree 100% about Kirkham building quality cars even if the billet stuff is not really my cup of tea. To each his own.
   
   Yes documentation is the key, anyone pouring big money into a classic automobile with no documentation is asking for trouble. I agree, SAAC has been doing a good job in keeping their registry up to date and we should do the same.
   I can see an urgent need with Fruas' in view of their price escalating and not much history documentation. This way it should be easier to differentiate the good from the basket cases when they get listed for sale.
   
   Emmanuel[]

[J Jones]

Back to the original subject of this thread, when will the PayPal option for dues be up and running? No pressure intended. Just interested in paying my dues.

[DGoose]

Pay-pal is ready now but to get maximum benefit from this payment option we will be launching a new mini e-commerce website / payment portal.
   
   Site is ready now and will allow you to purchase New Membership or Membership Renewal but I need to get sign off from the other council members prior to the site going live.
   Would expect this to happen shortly after our next meeting (28th July)
   
   If you wish to get things moving more quickly send me you e-mail address and I will raise a pay-pal invoice, I would however prefer to wait for the shop site to go live.
   
   David

[Gus Meyjes]

David,
   
   Thank you so much. Outstanding job. As soon as it goes live, I will submit my renewal payment. Fantastic job!
   
   Gus

[AEX566]

Just as a matter of authenticity, will one of our experts confirm that the brass chassis plate shown on Rod Leach's two litre EL 1558 is real?  It's slightly different than the brass plate on early Aces and Acecas, of which I've seen a number of close replicas.  The later aluminum chassis plates were silk screened instead of being etched, and are far easier to counterfeit. One wonders if this new "Ace" also has serial numbers stamped on the other specific body locations.
   
   So is this "Ace" any different than counterfeit handbags, cigarettes,  Apple computers in China or Picasso's?  There is the EEU directive setting forth destruction (crushing) of counterfeits.  We've already seen the action of AC's intellectual property holder regarding use of his trademark by this club. Basic Economics 101: This counterfeit Ace, which by reason of being offered to a potential buyer of a genuine Ace as an alternative, causes a reduction in the value of the limited supply of real Ace 2.6s.
   
   Art

[Gus Meyjes]

quote:Originally posted by Chafford
   

quote:Originally posted by AEX566
   
Just as a matter of authenticity, will one of our experts confirm that the brass chassis plate shown on Rod Leach's two litre EL 1558 is real?  It's slightly different than the brass plate on early Aces and Acecas, of which I've seen a number of close replicas.  The later aluminum chassis plates were silk screened instead of being etched, and are far easier to counterfeit. One wonders if this new "Ace" also has serial numbers stamped on the other specific body locations.
   
   So is this "Ace" any different than counterfeit handbags, cigarettes,  Apple computers in China or Picasso's?  There is the EEU directive setting forth destruction (crushing) of counterfeits.  We've already seen the action of AC's intellectual property holder regarding use of his trademark by this club. Basic Economics 101: This counterfeit Ace, which by reason of being offered to a potential buyer of a genuine Ace as an alternative, causes a reduction in the value of the limited supply of real Ace 2.6s.
   
   Art
   

   
   Although the advertisement headline is, in my opinion, misleading, the description of the car makes it quite clear that this is a replica, AC chassis plate or not. I suspect it could only be regarded as a counterfeit if it were being passed off as one of the original 37 cars with an RS/RSX chassis plate. And given the rarity of the original cars, I can't imagine that this car would have an adverse effect on the value of the originals.
   

   
   
   I would agree with that statement. a 2.6 Ace would be bought by a connaisseur of the marque, someone that would do due diligence before buying. In no way will this car decrease the value of the period built cars. However, it does make a case for my call for the ACOC to add a new registry for Heritage cars. 30 years from now, who will remember which car was period or not, if we don't keep track of the cars that are heritage cars. This particular car should be in the 2 litre registry with a side note of what happened to it, or it should be removed from the registry alltogether, as the original car was destroyed. ACOC takes the position that if it did not drive out of the AC factory, it can not be in the registry. In that case, this car should be removed. I don't agree with that, as I think there should be a record of what happened to cars and which "new" AC cars are produced, whether under license or through the Heritage program.
   
   Gus