Rear Wing for sale on ebay

[lyonheart84]

At the time I bought my rear wing ( actually I bought a pair but the righthand one was used ) I was told they were the last pair available. If I remember correctly there was also a complete fastback rear ( both wings joined by rear tail panel ) and a complete convertible rear end but obviously these were difficult to transport or store and we are talking 25 years ago. Obviously it's possible the factory had recently sold some other wings or produced another small batch afterwards( or possibly Autokraft did ) so it would be useful for 428 owners to know what the Shepherds now have available or indeed if they will sell any of the panels they may have. I'm working on a sensible shipping option to America for Jeff for my rear wing.

[Michael Trotter]

Jeff
   Don't despair; bloody-mindedness no doubt lives on in parts of Britain but not here in Hampshire. I may be able to help you with windscreen info. I am having CF6 resprayed and decided to replace the screen (the original, I think - made by VIS and now with a million tiny scratches in it). I found contact info on the internet for Pilkington who were the big glass makers in UK using the Triplex brand name for their car glass. Turns out Pilkington was sold in 2006 to NSG, a Japanese company, but Pilkington Automotive Ltd lives on in Kent as a car glass making subsidiary of NSG. They tell me they made the tooling for the 428 screen in 1976 (they don't know why or for whom) and have since made 16 of them. They can do nominal 6 or 7mm thick and I bought a 7mm (as original) clear laminated at a very attractive price for collection from their factory in Kent - packing and transport adds a lot to costs. Offering it up to the car suggests fit OK but not perfect but then I doubt whether all the screen apertures on our cars are identical. I asked about supply to the US and they said no problem - available from Pilkington Classics at Urbancrest, Ohio, telephone (+1)614.539.8430, contact Shawn Megown. I understand Kent and other European factories ship to a Pilkington distribution centre in UK who fill a container and send to Pilkington Classics via sea freight. My guess is cost would be OK but supply time a bit slow.
   I gave up searching for an existing rubber seal section. The UK Masserati specialists said it didn't match any of their classic sections and some samples they got from their Italian contacts were no good.So I am having a new section made by Baines and expect to have a sample for approval in a few weeks. I have paid for the tooling and a (minimum) run of 50 metres which will do about 12 cars (assuming no cockups in cutting and glueing). If it all works OK I will be happy to supply the balance to other owners. I will let you know the outcome when I have my new screen and seal fitted to my repainted car.
   Regards, Michael

[J Jones]

THANK YOU MICHAEL!!!
   Finally, some really useful information!
   I am surprised, though. I would think Mr. Frua used an existing windscreen/windshield in his design. I think I see the same glass in one of the Monteverdi's, and in a Maserati Spyder.
   But some real information with an address, telephone number etc., is a VERY welcome contribution.
   
   I was totally taken aback by Bretts information about Andy Shepherds possible supply of body parts. Though I have not spoken to Emmanuel, I suspect this might have been useful for him to know had the information been available.
   
   One of these days (when finances permit) I'd consider painting my car. I wouldn't like to undertake that without knowing I could put it back together properly. My windshield has a tiny hole in it, making the possibility of breaking it more likely when removing it for prep.
   
   Though it does seem that I'm lucky enough to have a good original car - I'd like to know that if I do uncover something on the order of Emmanuels discoveries, there are parts available to do a really proper job of fixing whatever problem appears.
   
   Uniclip had the misfortune of being too early to the party.
   
   Too bad, on many fronts, that Keith Moon died. If he had lived, and kept his 428, he alone could have kept Uniclip going profitably. (Sorry Keith)(sorry Andy)
   
   It's possible that 428's will get "discovered" now. Eighty-one cars are not quite enough to build a going business, unless the demand and values rise sufficiently - and that seems to be the trend. But anyone buying an expensive Classic has a right to expect the car to be complete and in excellent condition.
   
   However many cars remain (54? is that the number you've come up with Paul?), many of them are likely to need some attention. Covering rusted panels with sheet metal and Bondo is not really a good solution, is it?
   
   Maybe years ago, when the cars were cheap and repairs were done on the cheap, but not now.
   
   One of the advantages of these cars is that they CAN be made to be better than they were originally. They can be made to run cooler, handle better, be more fun to drive. And they're distinctive, gorgeous and fast. My little video on YouTube captured a comment from a young guy I drove past - "Wow! That's a nice car!" - that is a common reaction out in the world.
   
   Thank you, Michael. And thanks again for the glass info, and the 'rubber offer'.
   
   Now wouldn't it be nice for your information to be posted somewhere it could be discovered a year or two or ten from now? Like a PART FINDER tab on the website??
   
   Jeff

[Classicus]

quote:However many cars remain (54? is that the number you've come up with Paul?), many of them are likely to need some attention.

   Hi Jeff
   
   Hard to say for sure unfortunately. I know Andy mentioned in the recent Aston Martin DBS vs AC 428 Classic Cars article he'd managed to track down around 54 cars, a few of which were converted into Cobras.
   
   I think it really depends on what sort of information is required to begin with as "remain" is a bit indefinite. You could choose for example cars that have been "Traced" overall, Guesstimated Total currently 67, or cars that have been "Active" within say the past year and where by contrast there have been postings or photos to prove they are actually on the road or in the process of being rebuilt and so on. So without going through the data and off the top of my head I would hazard a guess that there could be about 15 - 20 "Active" in the past year....??
   
   Sorry can't be more specific but hope it helps,
   
   Paul []

[shep]

Hi Lyonheart, As we shut down Uniclip Automotive a few years ago, we have very few 428 Frua spares, other than the ones we keep for our own cars. The rear body panels mentioned elsewhere are owned by the ACOC and stored in a secure barn North East of London. I believe there is still an assortment of rear wings for fastback and convertible, and some complete rear ends. They are not painted and have some light surface rust which should rub off without too much trouble. I believe they were bought by the club about 25 years ago, during which time 4 or 5 pieces have been sold to repair or restore cars in Europe and USA. As I haven't seen them for 5 or 6 years I don't know what is still in stock. All the front wings were used up years ago, so given the choice, have any accidents backwards!
   As an aside, we used to enjoy running Uniclip Automotive when all our customers were friends. Over the years things changed, and we needed to advertise to find sufficient work to keep our chaps busy. A whole new type of customer came into our lives and even though we only charged £25 an hour, there was a dispute over most of the final bills. No one wanted to pay the price and we ended up subsidising too many jobs. It is hard enough to make 40 year old cars behave as if new, but if you lose money doing it, what is the point? I'm sure we aren't alone.

[Emmanueld]

Hi Andy, the truth is that most luxury cars go through a down phase where prices plunge and they are then bought by people who can't afford to service them properly and don't care. They buy them for status and the cars end up in the wrecking yard or a total mess. It's probably what happened to my car before it was given a paint job, a new interior and was put up for auction at Bonham in the early 2000. With the AC428 things were made worst because of the rarity of the car, the corrosion issue and the lack of spares. It's too bad but "c'est la vie" I have chosen to restore it and I kind of enjoy it except at check writing time. If there are a few rears available, they should be reserved for cars that have been smashed up. Still, it maybe worth it to have some of these original parts duplicated for just in case. In my neighborhood the nightmare is the bimbo in her Range Rover and on the phone who plows in to you at an intersection.
   
   There is such a car being repaired as I speak, an original small block cobra missing it's front end because of being hit by such a customer  who went through a red  light. The amusing part is that I think she may have a problem finding cheap insurance in the future, the they get it with a bill which will match the price of a new Ferrari. A cobra is easy to repair because there are plenty around,  but a 428, if the front end is smashed, how do you recreate the car accurately?
   
   That is the question?
   
   Emmanuel

[Emmanueld]

If Jeffrey ends up getting is fender, Brian could duplicate the othe side and I would ask him to make a set of roadster ones based on my car and that one. The lower part is probably the same. Or we make a wooden buck or a fiberglass mold, whatever is cheaper.
   
   Emmanuel [?]

[Emmanueld]

Andy, I have a request from you because I know you had CFX54 in your shop at one point. What I am interested in is any kind of history you may have, who owned it, where it came from, etc. Any info would be most welcomed to try to establish it's history before it came to the US. Even photos if you have any. I am not interested in the service history as I have quite a few invoices from Uniclip, but any kind of history related to ownership and location.
   
   Thank you,
   
   Emmanuel []

[lyonheart84]

Hi Shep ( Andy ), of course I knew of you and Uniclip in the 1990's but by then no longer had any Frua's. It would never be feasible to specialise solely in such a rare car as the 428 as so few were / are in circulation, and being spread all over the world, there would never be consistent maintenance work, plus of course people have their own 'preferred' mechanics and body shops. I was a member of the AC owners club for a long period in the 1980's and early 1990's and we had the 4 Fruas ( mentioned in the register updates ) over a period of time. VKM 661H ( CF48 ) was still automatic when we owned it. At various times we also had an Autokraft Mk 4, a Bristol engined Greyhound and 3 or 4  ME 3000's. I have to say the spares department of the owners club was quite amusing in the 1980's as they rarely had any idea what the club owned, how much the parts cost or even where they were stored! No doubt the onset of computers has improved this situation. I was aware there were possibly some other rear panels still around but one wonders if they are still where they are meant to be ! I'd like another 428 but no budget for that these days with the higher values hence that's why I thought I'd find a good home for my rear wing. If someone in America wanted a whole rear end it would have to be shipped in a container which would be ridiculously expensive.

[cliffordl]

The plethora of responses to my mention of spares encouraged me to plough through my back issues of ACtion to find the remembered article.
   
   In the March 2009 edition the full list of AC spares was published by Acedes Spares Ltd (the clubs own holding company) the then spares co-ordinator was the given contact. Most of the parts listed are for the earlier models with almost nothing for the cobra. The 428 listing under the heading Frua is exactly as follows;
   
   T-shift handle £5
   Chrome side brackets for tilting front seat each £3
   Body panels: prices negotiable
   Roof panel
   Early RHD dashboards
   Early LHD dashboards
   Convertible boot lid
   Fastback complete rear ends (inc wheel arches)
   Convertible complete rear ends (inc wheel arches)
   Tail rear panels (light apertures to and including rear valence
   Convertible rear wings
   Convertible rear wing
   Fastback rear wing
   Pair s/h chrome fill finishers (not very straight)
   Fastback lower back light rails
   Fastback front windscreen top panels
   Convertible hood fixing squab panel
   Convertible lower front screen panels
   Pair fastback B pillars (behind door window, in front of rear window
   
   That's the lot. Further mention was made of 'Useful Spares People';
   Rod Briggs
   Colin Dunn - Vintage Connections
   Brian Eacott
   John Sichel
   Brian Taylor
   Robin Woolmer
   
   I believe that only Vintage Connections and Brian Eacott have 428 related parts. Brian holds a varied stock of useful bits such as indicator lenses (front), panels switches, hoses etc.
   
   I did contact the then spares co-ordinator who pointed me in Shep's direction (so sorry to Shep if I incorrectly implied that you were sat on a treasure trove of 428 parts) but did not pursue it as I did not wish to undertake a rebuild. It is typical of the club to be charging such modest prices (£5 for the shift handle!!) so who can say how much of that list is still available, given the eccentric nature of Acedes they may all be present. I would hope that the spares remain as a pool for those truly in need rather than getting bought up and hoarded by individual owners. Perhaps the club should only sell panels to club members who can prove their need?
   
   Michael - congrats on the windscreen/seal work this is a great breakthrough (and exactly the sort of thing that the club should be doing - but then I guess not enough 428 owners are members so our voice is small). If there is interest I would be happy to commission new door seals but I'll put it up as a separate post.
   
   Finally there was mention last year of the club commissioning new front badges along with talk of a cache of 428 spares being acquired from the German guy who runs the Pietro Frua website (who sold me and a number of other owners the wing badges a year or so ago. Perhaps we will hear more in due course...

[J Jones]

Hello Clifford - Just to clarify a couple of things;
   
   "I would hope that the spares remain as a pool for those truly in need rather than getting bought up and hoarded by individual owners"
   
   Absolutely! Just in case you might be referring to the item that started this topic (thank you for posting it, Clifford), please make note: I'm trying to buy the rear wing from Brett, not to hoard, but to help on this side of the Great Atlantic Ocean. Or in case of Nuclear war or a Great Tsunami. Shipping costs are very high, unless it's for either a small package, or a large completely filled container. Buying parts from the Acedes stores would be financially ridiculous. Even buying a Windscreen from Andy would cost more than twice as much to ship as the part itself. The information Michael provided makes the windshield proposition seem more feasible. (I suspect it may well have been Andy who commissioned the mold - true? If so, Andy certainly deserves a return on his investment)
   
   As I think I've already said, I'd like the part as a pattern. These cars prone to rust below the belt-line (as are all Italian steel bodied cars). Re-creating the wheel arches seems to be a problem. More than one car has been "repaired" with the wrong profile.
   
   please view the link to the "jay Leno" video further up the page. We could do this now - but print it out as a full sized paper pattern for a metalsmith to dupilicate.One left side panel can be both left AND right. It's possible to scan the whole car, but it had better be the best available example.
   
   Spares quietly parked in a shed North-east of London aren't much help over here. Or in Australia, or New Zealand or South Africa or Brazil. Especially when the existence of said spares is not well known.(I've moved a couple of times, and I've missed many copies of ACtion as a result. I knew nothing of the existence of 428 spare parts until now)
   
   "I guess not enough 428 owners are members so our voice is small"
   
   Good News for "Overseas members" and "not-yet members"! Tony Morpeth (membership secretary) can be reached via email, and can handle a CC payment via email as well. It's no longer necessary to spend a half a day at the post office arranging an International Money Order! No need to get screwed on exchange rates by sending a check! The price of membership for U.S. residents is 60 pounds. Well worth making the effort!
   
   "talk of a cache of 428 spares being acquired from the German guy who runs the Pietro Frua website (who sold me and a number of other owners the wing badges a year or so ago."
   
   Stefan Dierkes. I asked him about parts about a year ago, and it was my understanding he only had the Frua badges. Maybe something has changed? I have his email address, I'll find out.
   
   "I believe that only Vintage Connections and Brian Eacott have 428 related parts. Brian holds a varied stock of useful bits such as indicator lenses (front), panels switches, hoses etc."
   
   There was a thread "Identifying Frua parts" a while ago. It was sort of fun, hunting for the origin of the various bits and pieces that make up these cars. The thread had quite a few views. I'll go back and look to see if there is reference (don't want to risk losing what I've written sofar) to existing part suppliers. I think we identified the front indicator lenses as a Carello part for a 411 volkswagen, and Karmann-giha. Early version dash switches: Lucas, made for Maserati.  (I looked: 2014 views. No mention of a parts supply by the ACOC. And no parts list posted)
   
   Emmanuel has borrowed one of my bonnet springs to have re-produced. I think he'll post someting about it. It would be REALLY EXCELLENT to find out they already exist somewhere. And pretty damned annoying as well, after all the chatter there has been about this item in the past.

[J Jones]

Regarding Stefan Dierkes (of the Pietro Frua website), here is his reply regarding parts:
   
   Hello Jeffrey,
   
   YOur assumption is true: I have no other AC 428 parts than the Frua badges. And I agree with you that Pietro Frua most likely used existing parts during the design process. But presently I cannot name any; sorry that I cannot help. Anyway, I would be happy, if you could inform me about the source of other AC 428 parts. I would like to list them on my webpage for future reference of AC 428 owners.
   
   Best regards,
   
   Registro Pietro Frua
   Stefan Dierkes
   Eichendorffstr. 57
   71665 Vaihingen an der Enz
   Deutschland/Germany
   
   I went back in the forum, and there have been many threads devoted to discovery of the source of bits for the 428.  Clifford identified door handles, front indicator lenses, etc in 2008. We've all bemoaned the absence of a parts list readily to be found. Digging through the 12 pages of past topics can be useful, though inefficient.
   
   Assembling a list would be a collective effort. Finding a place to put it is another matter. The Administrator volunteered the "technical articles" section - though I wasn't successful in finding that area of the website.
   
   A "technical article" sounds to me a definitive and complete list. It would be better, if it were possible, to have a section separate from the forum, where members could add discoveries as they uncover new part origins. Once you know that (for instance) a front indicator lens is a Carello (or Hella?) part for Volkswagen/Karmann Ghia (or have a part number) - it's easy to do a successful internet search.
   
   It might also be a valuable tool to encourage actual paid membership if the "parts finder" (whotsitoff?) was placed in the "members only" section.

[shep]

I  know the availability of 428 spares may all sound a bit disorganised from the AC Owners Club, but there are a few factors involved. All the ACOC officers and committee members are voluntary and do a whole lot of work totally free for the benefit of the members. The Club has no storage facilities and all parts are stored in various barns and garages owned by members, again for free. When we manage to locate and buy spare parts, they are collected by the spares co-ordinator or registrar, who get no expenses for their time or trouble. Most of these Club officers are also organising other club events, both social and competitive, the ACtion magazine, Membership services, Website etc etc. If we don't look at the forum for a few weeks, it's not because we don't care, but we may be busy on something else. I always try to reply quickly to emails sent to me directly, and give the benefit of my experience to members for free. Unfortunately I don't know everything, and can't come up with the required answer every time. If any member needs advice, I'll continue to do my best to help. Andy.