Author Topic: AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62  (Read 68639 times)

AC Ace Bristol

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« on: August 29, 2010, 13:13:48 »
Louis Monnier one of our French AC members and ACtive participant with Bertrand Leseur's Le Mans exploits over the past 10 years, has bitten the bullet and is researching the History of all ACE Bristol's that have competed in the Le Mans 24 hour during the Period 1957 through to 1962.
   (possible BOOK .. [?]or  ACtion feature [?])
   
   Any information , pictures, "funny" and unusual stories relating
   to Entrants, the Aces, the Service crews etc.
   would be appreciated.
   
   For further details please refer to French Forum :-
   
   http://www.autodiva.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1265
   
   Louis is in communication with John Deveson & Alan Turner and
   has Tony Bancroft's book "Ace Bristol Racing" on order.
   
   Good Luck Louis, Please keep us all informed of developments especially if new information comes to light that hasn't already been published in Tony Bancroft's book or John Deveson's notes which were published in various back issues of ACtion. [;)]
   
   Keith [:)]

ACOCArch

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2010, 17:32:18 »
The AC Aces, of all engine types, which competed at Le Mans and other World Sports Car Championship events, between 1956 and 1964, are listed in Rinsey Mills' recently published book 'AC Six-Cylinder Sports Cars In Detail' ISBN 978-0-9549981-7-2. The body of the book includes further information on some of the cars.

Louism

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 19:54:50 »
So I decided to cross the channel !!
   Thank Keith for your help, looking forward to see you in Goodwood soon.
   Thanks ACOCArch, I have Rinsey Mill's book...very interesting.
   
   Somebody has a recent picture of AE205 ex Le Mans 57 ?
   
   Best regards
   Louis Monnier

Louism

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2010, 22:01:12 »
Well, just forgotten to thanks Keith again.
   I am going to improve my english with you...
   
   To bite the bullet ????
   to make yourself do something or accept something difficult
   Usage notes: When army doctors performed painful operations without drugs, they gave patients a bullet to put between their teeth.
   
   I like it Keith !!!
   Cheers
   Louis

AC Ace Bristol

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2010, 00:19:10 »
Louis
   
   As confirmed in the recent series of email, Tony Bancroft has a mine of information to complement his book  "Ace Bristol  Racing" especially on Ace Bristols racing in SCCA (USA) and on specific Aces raced at Le Mans 24 hrs in the 1950s & 1960s.
   
   He has offered you copies of his research material to give you sound foundations to build upon.
   
   As the Le Mans 24hr is a French event, you have more chance of securing additional information and photographs which hopefully you can share with Tony Bancroft and our Forum.
   
   We MUST LEARN to read French, In order to follow your Thread on your Forum....  Should new and interesting material come to light, Can you please translate and add to this thread. So we can follow your research and results ...  [:p]
   
   Have arranged to hand deliver a Copy of Tony's Book, see you at Goodwood Revival in the GRRC Marque on the Lavant straight. 13.00hrs Sunday 19th September for Lunch along with Bertrand, Christian and rest of the French Party.
   
   In the meantime good luck with the research. [:)]
   
   Cheers for Now
   
   Keith

Louism

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2011, 11:14:22 »
Hello to all of us and happy neaw year !
   
   In the eight different chassis seen in Le Mans between 1957 and 62, I have a problem with BEX289.
   
   The car raced in 1960 with a special body made by Gachang brothers in Aigle(switzerland).
   
   
   
   This car then had an history in its country in the hands of Michel Bricod (numberplate GE 151776 painted in metalic blue)as far as I know.
   After Switzerland, BEX289 came in France and has been used in historic races in the early eighties (in red again with numberplate 6116 RF 64).
   And that is THE problem. If you look at a picture of the car, you will see the back is completly different from Le Mans, this transformation was made BEFORE the arrival of the car in France. Do you think this transformation has been made by Drogo as I heard ?
   
   
   
   Then I lost the car and I don't know where it is today (Tony Brancroft thinks for Germany on the AC registers made in 2002)

MkIV Lux

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2011, 21:16:39 »
Hello Louis,
   
   BEX289 was raced at Le Mans with Swiss license plate VD 21156.
   I have a picture during scrutineering at Le Mans in 1960 and another one of the car in the pit lane. If you don't have those, I'll e-mail them to you.
   
   Constant

ANTOINE PRUNET

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 22:47:10 »
quote:
Originally posted by Louism
   
Hello to all of us and happy neaw year !
   
   In the eight different chassis seen in Le Mans between 1957 and 62, I have a problem with BEX289.
   
   The car raced in 1960 with a special body made by Gachang brothers in Aigle(switzerland).
   
   
   
   This car then had an history in its country in the hands of Michel Bricod (numberplate GE 151776 painted in metalic blue)as far as I know.
   After Switzerland, BEX289 came in France and has been used in historic races in the early eighties (in red again with numberplate 6116 RF 64).
   And that is THE problem. If you look at a picture of the car, you will see the back is completly different from Le Mans, this transformation was made BEFORE the arrival of the car in France. Do you think this transformation has been made by Drogo as I heard ?
   
   
   
   Then I lost the car and I don't know where it is today (Tony Brancroft thinks for Germany on the AC registers made in 2002)
   
   

   
   
   
   Hello Constant and Louis M
   
   Indeed BEX 289 had been (at least partially) rebodied after Le Mans ’60 when raced in France from the late 70s as shown on your photo. It was Michel Larive – from the Pau area – who vintage raced it (your photo) a lot and the car remained in the area afterwards until recently.
   
   The car was registered VD 31156 at with one Gachnang at Monza (GP della Lotteria) on 28 June 1959 (#48) but a photo I have of the car at Le Mans on the pit lame before the ’60 event with its welded hard top definitely shows reg. plate VD 2065. Probably it is a sort of trade plate…  I regret I never managed to post a pix in this forum…
   
   By the way a replica of the modified bodywork (1st version) is being prepared in the UK.
   
   Best wishes

Louism

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2011, 23:58:42 »
Dear Constant,
   
   Yes I would appreciate some pictures of any Ace in Le Mans 24 hours.
   Thank you so much
   
   Dear Antoine,
   - I had some informations with Georges Gachnang + the forum Autodiva in the topic about CEGGA (the cars made by Gachnang brothers).
   - I knew Michel Larive had the car but never talked to him (I sent a personal message to him through the forum).
   - When you talk about registration VD31156, do you mean VD21156 as shown on the picture:
   
   - Never seen this picture of Le Mans with the VD2065 registration.
   - Another information I did not know about this Le Mans 1960 bodywork replica.
   I still don't know where is the car today...
   
   Best regards
   Louis

ANTOINE PRUNET

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 07:55:34 »
Hello Louism
   
   Sorry for my typo with VD 31156. Of course I meant VD 21156 which I had not seen before on the car at Le Mans.
   
   I am still struggling to understand how to post in this forum a photo of BEX 289 at Le Mans with plate VD 2065. (What does mean?) Anyway that change of plates does not change anything with the car.
   
   The reference to Drogo is (another) mystery to me: I have seen many photos of many Drogo cars (mostly Ferraris) but this Ace never appeared.
   
   Regarding AE 205 ex-Le Mans, I have a picture of a Japanese entry in some Mille Miglia retrospective. It is metallic green and looks like the car shown in Rinsey Mill's excellent book, on the bottom of page 136. But this forum...
   
   Regards

AC Ace Bristol

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2011, 18:33:56 »
Louis
   
   
   In response to your request have copied below the recent postings off my two year thread reference:-
   
   "Racing History of BEX333 1957 to 1964".....As they also relate to your research / thread:-
   
   "Les AC Ace Bristol au Le Mans 24hour. 1957 -1962"
   
   
   
   
   Hello Keith,
   
   For my search about Le Mans I was reading "AC Six-cylinder Sports-car" by Rinsey Mills.
   If you look at the story of BEX399 in page 172, for the second participation of the car at the 24 hours 1961 (the only car to have race twice by the way) it is said she was slower than the second car in the class...BEX333.
   You did not tell me BEX333 had a story in Le Mans !!!
   I think the author wanted to write BEX1110.
   
   Cheers
   Louis
   
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Edited by - Louism on 08 January 2011 11:50:21
   
   
   AC Ace Bristol
   
   
   United Kingdom
   495 Posts
    Posted - 08 January 2011 :  13:56:43
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   Louis
   
   IF ONLY !!
   
   Both Barry & I have driven BEX333 round the Le Mans circuit a few times over the past 5 Le Mans Classic,
   But these have been Parade laps at full chatter, passing various cars at over 100mph and
   being passed at 155mph by the odd Ferrari. (Achieved a Boyhood Dream)..
   
   Rinsey Mills has made a small error in his latest book. (which is Rare and out of character for Rinsey, He is usually
   very fastidious with his research).
   BEX333 never raced at 24 hrs Le Mans in the early 1960s, she was still racing in NW USA, Vancouver &
   British Columbia in the capable hands of Jim Parsons .. .. .. Not as prestigious as The 24hr Le Mans.
   
   Louis you are correct Rinsey Mills should have printed BEX1110 for the 1961 24hr Le Mans.
   Keep up your research on AC Ace participation in the 24hour Le Mans. Especially reference to the history of BEX289
   
   Keith.. ..
   
   
   
   
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Edited by - AC Ace Bristol on 12 January 2011 17:43:45
   
   
   nikbj68
   
   
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    Posted - 13 January 2011 :  20:08:26
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   quote:
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Originally posted by AC Ace Bristol...BEX333 never raced at 24 hrs Le Mans in the early 1960s...you are correct Rinsey Mills should have printed BEX1110 for the 1961 24hr Le Mans....Keith...
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   
   
   Here`s a photo of BEX 1110 being 'numerated' at Le Mans in 1961! Is that supposed to be a '2' or a '9'... make your mind up! (It was no.28!)
   
   
   
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Edited by - nikbj68 on 13 January 2011 20:10:12
   
   
   Louism
   
   
   France
   6 Posts
    Posted - 14 January 2011 :  06:12:35
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   Thank you,
   Good (famous) picture !
   No problem with numbers, two Aces in 61:
   
   Number 28: BEX1110 entered by Chardonnet the french AC importator, Magne-Alexandrovitch, 17th (3507,282 Km average 146,137 Km/h)
   Best lap in practises 5'00'8
   Best lap in race 5'16'4
   
   Number 29: BEX399 Swiss entry, Wicky-Berney, DNF overheating 11th hour
   Best lap in practises 5'09'8
   Best lap in race 5'09'2
   
   The best topic for this would be "Les AC Ace Bristol au Le Mans 24hr... 57-62"
   
   Thanks for more pictures
   Louis
   
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Edited by - Louism on 14 January 2011 07:03:47
   
   
   tim isles
   
   
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    Posted - 14 January 2011 :  17:22:28
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   Louis,
   
   Am I right in saying that car #28 claimed AC's second class win at Le Mans? I think it won the class for GT Cars, 1601 - 2000 ccs. For some reason this achievement is rarely mentioned?
   
   Good luck with the book!
   
   Tim
   
   Agree with Tim,  Louis One day it would be nice to read a special book or series of features in ACtion reference the complete Racing History of AC Aces at Le Mans 24hrs.
   
   Good Luck
   
   Keith .. [:)]

Louism

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2011, 06:22:12 »
I did not notice Keith wrote "possible book" at the start of this topic...He was pulling my leg [:D]
   Guys don't wait from me a book about AC's in Le Mans, ask Tony or Antoine ! They are the right men to do so ! [:)][:)]
   
   Seriously a space in ACtion is more reasonable !!! [;)]
   
   I will give some more infos about categories and classes at Le Mans 24 hours during the week end...
   
   Louis

Louism

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2011, 17:34:55 »
So to answear your message about classes and categories at the 24 Hours.
   This subject is large enough to make a book...[:D]
   
   To make it short, let's look at the period 57/62 which is the centre of our topic.
   
   1957 and 1958: The classification is only based on engine capacity
   

   - 1957: AE205 n°31 Rudd/Bolton is 10th covering 3780.473 km
                                            and 2nd in the class 1501cc to 2000cc
                                            first in class is the Ferrari 500TR n°28 Bianchi/Harris in 7th position
             - 1958: LM5000 n°28 Bolton/Stoop is 8th with 3449.865 km, 2nd in class 1501cc to 2000cc
                     BEX399 n°27 Patthey/Berger is 9th covering 3426.612 km, 3rd in class
                                            first in class is Porsche RSK n°29 Behra/Herrmann in 3rd position
   
   In 1959 starts a new category called GT so in the classification you have a winner of Sport group and a winner of GT group.
   At the same time, you still have a classification based on engine capacity and this classification is independant of the one made by group.
   Easier to understand by reading the results:

   
             - 1959: BE214 n°29 Whiteaway/Turner in 7th position overall covering 3684.838 km
                                                 Our AC is a GT, group won by Ferrari 250GT Beurlys/Elde in 3rd position overall.
                                                 But she is First in class 1501cc to 2000cc without any group distinction.
             - 1960: BEX289 and BEX365 were not classified.
             - 1961: BEX1110 n°28 Magne/Alexandrovitch finished in 17th position covering 3507.282 km
                                             Winner in GT is Ferrari 250GT n°14 Noblet/Guichet in 3rd position overall
                                             Winner of class 1601cc to 2000cc is Porsche RS61 n°33 Gregory/Holbert in 5th position
                                             The ACE is 7th in GT and 7th in class.
                     BEX399 did not finished
             - 1962: BEX1192 did not finished
   
   Is this more clear now ? [:p]
   
   In conclusion, the best result ever in the 24 Hours of Le Mans was made in 1959 by BE214 driven by Ted Whiteaway and the still young John Turner. They were 7th overall and first in class.
   Behind that, AE205 in 1957, LM5000 in 1958 were both second in class.
   
   Have a nice weekend, waiting for comments...[;)]
   Louis

bex316

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2011, 23:58:48 »
Keith asked me to post these photos of BEX 289 on his behalf so here they are.
   
   Jerry
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

tim isles

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AC Ace Bristol's at Le Mans 24hr... 57-62
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2011, 08:09:19 »
Louis,
   
   Many thanks, all much clearer.
   
   If you go to this website:
   
   http://www.experiencelemans.com/contents/en-us/d131_1961_Le_Mans_24_Hours_Competitors_Results.html
   
   you'll see these results credit BEX 1110 with finishing 17th, but also 1st in the 1601 - 2000 GT class - is this a mistake in these results? I note that the Porsche is credited with finishing 5th O/A, and with winning the Sports Car class.
   
   Tim