Messages

31

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: Ac Aceca Battery type?

« on: October 23, 2022, 09:35:24 »

Hi Eddie,

The original battery for both the Ace and the Aceca, at least up until 1960 would have been a
Lucas GLT7A battery. Length 10 3/4, width 6 7/8 and height over terminals 9 1/4.

Obviously these haven’t been produced for the last 60 or so years but modern vintage style batteries are available from a couple of different sources.

I’ve been trying to find a Lucas GLT7A battery for years without any success. If anybody has one, regardless of condition I would be very interested!

Please find an image of an old advertisement that shows a similar battery.

Jonas

32

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: AC Ace steering box?

« on: October 10, 2022, 13:23:52 »

Good afternoon gentlemen,

Thanks Michael for helping out again. I do also think that 1’ shouldn’t matter very much. I’m also rather certain that Track Ace isn’t accurate down to the last decimal!

I’m afraid that I do find myself rereading what I have written, and unfortunately conclude that I have been unclear, or not precise enough.
Sorry about that. Let me try to rectify that.

I did mean that the play was at the steering wheel. I redid the test and I now I tried to replicate Greg's test down to using a similar tape and ear swabs!
Since I perform this test on my own I basically move the steering wheel to either side until I feel, again, the slightest drag, or shall I say resistance in the steering wheel on either side.
I suppose I have to get an assistant so I can perform the drop arm test. Either way, when no applying any force at all the play in the steering wheel is not as much as I previously mentioned.
It’s something like 14-15 mm which is something in-between 9/16 and 5/8 of an inch, which is a whole lot more than the 1/8 you mentioned. Please see the attached images.

I do think that I have to perform the “drop arm test”, in hindsight; I should have done that a long time ago…

But, and I think this is important, do I understand you correctly Michael that I should aim for a free play of 1/8 at the steering wheel when adjusting the steering box?

Something that springs to mind is that the peg that goes into the worm on 31 was visibly compressed on the sides that moved against the worm. I did press it out, turned it 90 degrees before pressing it back on again…

I have asked around the “classic car circle” in southern Sweden and so far nobody has admitted to be in possession of a 'drive over' alignment gauge. I also have a feeling that the old Dunlop toe in gauges with two mirrors
are more accurate than the Track Ace version, they are also a lot more expensive!

So the quest for the optimal steering experience goes on.

Jonas

33

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: AC Ace steering box?

« on: September 11, 2022, 09:04:55 »

Gentlemen,

I finally managed to find time to reset the toe-in on 31 to 12-13 minute degrees, which should be the equivalent of 1/16 of an inch. I had planned to do a drive test yesterday but a torrential down poor ment that I had to spend yesterday afternoon looking after a bilge pump, and sweeping floors!

So this morning I eventually took the car out for a longer test drive. The steering behaved better than before so I’m convinced that 1/16 is for the total toe-in. The steering has open up a bit and at the same time straight ahead stability was better. I did take the car up to something like 125 kph, which is a bit more than 75 mph. My next careful adjustment has to be to adjust the peg “until the slightest drag is felt over the dead ahead position”. Any idea just how slight that should be, hardly noticeable or just a bit more?!

Great thanks to Michael, Berrie, Andy and everybody else that helped out with this.

Jonas

34

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: AC Ace steering box?

« on: September 05, 2022, 19:36:08 »

Dear all,

A sincere thank you all for joining in and helping out with the toe-in examination. It’s very pleasing that so many of you are sharing your technical knowledge of these lovely cars.

Michael, I do suspect that AC did follow the convention of the day so that 1/16 was the total toe-in. However I still find it interesting that it says “on rim”, that might very well be a linguistic detail that should be overlooked. As previously mentioned, other British sports cars of the period came with recommendations of a lot more toe-in.

Barrie, you most definitely make an interesting observation that the early cars have harder mounts for the inner wishbone. I believe I have the original handbook for 31 (that was delivered in the summer 1954) and that definitely states 1/16, as it does in later handbooks.

I’m just back from the UK so I will try to find time this week to set the toe-in to a total of 13’, or 1/16 of an inch, and test it! Hopefully with astonishing results.

Contrary to Greg’s experience I have to say that 31 is fantastic around winding roads, it’s only at higher speeds, on straight roads that the wandering manifests itself. The total play on 31, if doing Greg’s test would be, I’m guessing a maximum of 2 inches, if that.

Best regards

Jonas

35

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: AC Ace steering box?

« on: September 01, 2022, 14:55:25 »

Barrie,

Thanks for your comments. First I have to admit to being guilty of mixing up fractions of a degree with decimal points. I’m aware of the difference, and I did try not to make this mistake, but I did. Sorry.

Since I’m travelling at the moment I haven’t had a chance to set the toe-in to lesser degrees.

However I’m still wondering what the verdict is concerning the statement in the handbook, is 1/16 intended as the overall toe-in or is it per wheel?

I’ve also enclosed the Track-ace conversion table which is what I have used as a base to decipher what the setting 31 has.

Thanks Jonas

36

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: AC Ace steering box?

« on: August 24, 2022, 15:32:37 »

Michael,

Again thank you for taking time to engage in this matter. I’m in no way offended. My main reason for posting on the forum in the first place was to find out what to-in other Ace drivers
have and if anybody else has had experienced any similar problems.

Let me also try to be clearer with what I meant concerning the degrees of the drop arm. What I did was to adjust the length of the arm that goes from the steering arm
to the idler, so that the peg in the box was dead centre when the idler was, since it wasn’t!

To answer your question I have, as you know,  made the assumption that the 1/16 toe-in as stated in the handbook, is per wheel since it states rim, not rims.
This might very well be a mistake on my part and this will obviously make a difference. I also have to admit that I was unclear in my previous post, I was and I am talking about the total toe-in,
i.e. the combined toe-in for both wheels.

I have since my last post talked with two AC Ace knowledgeable people and they have interpreted the handbook toe-in as referring to one wheel, when the 1/16 inch measurement is given.

But they can naturally have interpreted this wrongly. It would in this situation be interesting to hear how other members on the forum interprets the 1/16 inch toe-in statement;
if they believe it is per side, or the total toe-in?

I agree with your calculation under the fourth point, when I look at conversion tables for 16 inch wheels, from inches to degrees, 1/16 inches translates to 13 minute degrees which
is very close to 0.1 degrees.

At the moment 31 has a total toe-in of roughly 40 minute degrees, or 0,4 degrees which is too much regardless of how the handbook is interpreted. So I will definitely set the car up
with less to-in, after which I will post my experience of this.

One comment I have had during this “investigation” was that a problem could come from the fact that I’m using Penrite’s Semi fluid Steering Box lube and not a high viscosity oil…

I also feel I have to point out that I’m not an engineer, so any statement I make can obviously be wrong, I hope that that any possible ignorance on my part isn’t regarded as rudeness
since that’s the opposite of what I intended. I totally agree and hope that members and owners of AC cars will continue to talk to and try to help each other out as much as possible.
I am very grateful for all the comments and help I have received in this matter, as well as on other questions I have posted on the forum over the years.

Thanks also to Ron, the tyre pressure you stated is exactly what I have so that shouldn’t be the culprit!

Jonas

37

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: AC Ace steering box?

« on: August 19, 2022, 10:37:48 »

Michael,

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and experience in this matter, much appreciated. I also thank you for the kind offer to use your Trackrite. I am somewhat confident that the bearings, king pins and bushes, all suspension bushes, ball joints and steering box are fine since most parts are more or less “new”.

I will give you some more data about the Wheel geometry, well the caster is a little bit off as I think I mentioned 4 degrees and 02 minute degrees on the left and 3 degrees and 42 minute degrees on the right side. So 18 minute degrees difference, if that is too much I don’t know.

The camber on my car was at least – 23 minute degrees on the left and - 10 minute degrees on the right side; again if this is acceptable or not I don’t know but I have seen a couple of Ace’s that race that are set up with negative camber.
When it comes to the toe-in I have made the assumption (right or wrong?) that when the handbook states 1/16 toe-in that is per side, so my calculation is that the total toe-in should be 1/8 inches. I recently bought a Track ace alignment gauge, http://www.trackace.co.uk/ and when I use their guide to converting the 1/8 to degrees I end up with a total toe-in of 27 minute degrees.

So to answer your question where the 0.25 comes from it’s from the fact that I used to have the total toe-in set to 0.25 degrees. After trying this, which I believe corresponds to the factory specification, I have increased that to, at the wheel alignment shop 47 minute degrees, and when I measure it at my workshop with the Track ace, it’s roughly 40 minute degrees. I increased this after consulting with people with a lot more experience than me. When looking at the recommended toe-in for other English sports cars of the same era with 15 and 16 inch wheels, many of them seem to have a recommended total toe-in of 1/8 inches.
Anybody else out there with any ideas about this?

I very much regret that I didn’t check what toe-in 31 had before I pulled everything apart since it used to be less prone to high speed wander.

Furthermore what I meant about the angle of the steering arm relative to the box was that the arm, which I believe should be 3 degrees to the right, on a left hand drive car. If you look closely at the drawing in the handbook you can see that the arm is not straight in comparison with the column when in the dead ahead position. I’ve enclosed an image of a TR 3 steering box as well as the image from the handbook.
I do have a bracing strut that I have had for a very long time, I maybe got it when I had AE 25 in the early 1980’s but so far I haven’t fitted it, maybe I should?!

Thanks a lot for all the comments and help.

Jonas

38

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: Replacing Speedo cable

« on: August 07, 2022, 21:56:37 »

Chris,

I’ve got an Ace from 1954 and I don’t know if they differ in this respect but on my car I indeed have to remove the seats and the transmission tunnel to get to tighten the cable on the angled drive.

Jonas

39

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: AC Ace steering box?

« on: August 05, 2022, 17:58:43 »

Michael,

Thanks for replying. I indeed mean directional instability, or maybe even that the car wants to “self steer” to some degree. It has gotten a bit better after I have adjusted the angle of the steering arm vis-à-vis the steering box and I also had a bush in the idler that protruded some thousands of an inch, but all that is now corrected.

So  when I go faster, say above 60-65 mph I still experience a little bit of this, and that’s basically as fast as I go these days, but it would be nice to do 75-80. As I think I mentioned earlier in this thread I have had 31 for many years now and before I took it off the road in 2005 to start a restoration I used to regularly go almost flat out, say 90-95 mph and never think twice about the steering having a life of its own.

One thought I have is that the most recent Michelin X’s are different compared to the older ones, that could make a difference.  Another  thought is that the toe should be more pronounced and lastly I’m also wondering if my wheels are well balanced enough. I have checked the two last things at a tire shop and the digital readings are correct for both toe in and the balance of the tyres.

Sorry for the rambling but interesting to hear what other members of the forum thinks.

Thanks

Jonas

 

40

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: AC Ace steering box?

« on: July 23, 2022, 14:56:38 »

Hi Ron,

I take my hat off for your 315.000 km. I wouldn’t be surprised if you have driven more miles in an Ace than anybody else. I guess I have done roughly 20.000 km all in all in 31.

Out of curiosity could I ask were you have done all these kilometres?

Thanks for answering my questions. I really don’t think that there is anything very wrong with my steering box. So by fine tuning everything I hope to reach an acceptable result.

I will recheck the idler again.

Talking about the handbook I also believe it says that the steering when properly adjusted should be “finger light”, I wonder if anybody has experienced that!

Thanks again for helping out.

All the best.

Jonas

41

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: AC Ace steering box?

« on: July 22, 2022, 10:20:56 »

Ron,

Thanks for your input. I have to say that 450.000 km is rather impressive, have you done many of these miles yourself?

I’m also curious as to what tires you are running with at present.

The funny thing for me is that I never used to have any tracking problems before 31 was restored, sometimes I wonder if it’s also an older version of myself, that’s more used to modern cars that’s the biggest problem. I have had 31 for 22-23 years now…

Anyway. All the ball joints were changed when the car was restored, which is now only some 6-7000 km ago.

After having rechecked everything I found that the front steering idler was a bit stiff and after sorting this my car isn’t tracking as much. However I am still wondering if possibly I should set it up with a bit more toe in, at the moment the total toe in is 0,5 degrees.

So still interested to hear what toe in  other members have on their cars, that have 16 inch wheels.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Jonas

42

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: AC Ace steering box?

« on: June 30, 2022, 14:17:06 »

Gentlemen,

Thanks for your reply’s. Barrie, are you a 100 % sure that the cam is machined to give more clearance in the centre of the cam? There is one thing that I find intriguing and that
is that the peg is past the centre of the cam in the straight ahead area, which would mean that the peg, theoretically, wouldn't have any contact at all with the sides of the cam,
unless the cam is machined with different angles.

To make things even more complicated for my little brain a friend of mine sent me this text:

https://ttypes.org/keeping-it-on-the-straight-and-narrow-aspects-that-affect-tatbtc-steering-part-7/

The text is about steering boxes for MG TA-TC, but still a Bishops box that I presume would be designed, and machined in a similar fashion?

If that is correct this text assumes that the peg clinches, or meshes with the cam in the dead center position and towards the stop of the travel.

Greatful for any comments.

Kind regards

Jonas

43

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: AC Ace steering box?

« on: June 24, 2022, 16:39:09 »

Many thanks for your input.

Barrie, I do think the uprights are fitted the correct way. Both sides have a positive caster of between 3 and 4 degrees. So hopefully no insult to the old lady (31!).

I will definitely try to let the peg sit with less force and see if that changes matters. I have also enclosed an image of the worm. Maybe hard to see but there is some wear, especially in the center of the worm. I do think my worm Is just worn, maybe from historical over tightening?

Regardless I do think that the modern Michelin X’s are rather different to the older ones. First of all the later versions have an almost 20 mm larger diameter, different thread pattern and probably a different rubber specification. I definitely feel a large difference to the older ones when cornering, the new type sticks to the road much, much better.

Robin, I have had some contact with the Marles company. I can see on their website that they have restored a number of the Bishops boxes for AC’s. Do you or anybody else on the forum have any first hand experience with them and the quality of their work?

A last thought I have is that toe in should play a large part as well. 31 is set up with roughly 0,25 degrees per side, which should equate to the 1/16 inch as it says in the handbook. Anybody with different opinion/experience concerning  toe in? I run the car with the original 16 inch wheels.

Thanks again.

Jonas

44

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / AC Ace steering box?

« on: June 23, 2022, 15:06:01 »

Dear all,

AEX 31 has done something like 80.000 km and so has the steering box. With the help of a knowledgeable friend we replaced all the moving parts that we could so I guess it’s as good as it can get, without changing the worm and peg, so with modern Michelin X’s it’s tracking a bit at higher speeds.

So my question is simple, is there anybody out there that has a very good or even nos steering box or at least a new worm and maybe a column that they want to sell? To me!

I know one can buy new worms from TR specialists but I have also heard that the quality of these new worms aren’t very good. Also if anybody has any experience with new parts and tracking problems in general it would be interesting to hear about the experience that others with old Ace’s and Aceca’s have had.

Many thanks in advance for any input.

Kind regards

Jonas

45

Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum / Re: Rotor Arm for UMC engine

« on: June 12, 2022, 14:49:29 »

If your car still has the original DX6A Distributor i believe that the rotor arm is Lucas part number 415088. There's a couple available on eBay and a number of companies will have these in stock.

Regards Jonas