Messages

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General Forum / Road rage

« on: December 03, 2012, 23:08:38 »

link worked fine for me, maybe your anti virus blocked it aaron?

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General Forum / Long Lost Unknown AC Model?

« on: November 25, 2012, 23:03:17 »

LOL there's no way that hideous monstrosity is a genuine Excalibur. I've seen plenty of them over the years and although they weren't to everyone's taste, Excaliburs were quite well built and engineered cars that used mostly Corvette running gear and were modelled on the Mercedes SSK's of the 1930's, and were generally referred to as Neo-Classic reproductions. The other similar quality manufacturer in America was Zimmer ( not the same as zimmer frame manufacturers ! ).  It looks more similar to a Gazelle (also American ) from the mid 1970's but even they were much prettier than the car on E=Bay. nikbj68 is right £ 2995 is probably all it's value ! I think the chappie on E-Bay is lucky not to have been pulled up under the trade description act LOL. I wouldn't be surprised if some clever clog that imported it originally managed to wangle registering it as an Excalibur........

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428 Frua Forum / CF 9 for sale

« on: October 18, 2012, 10:29:37 »

You can see why the AC 428 at approximately 20% more new than an Aston Martin in the late 1960's struggled to sell in higher volume in addition to the well documented development and production delays. Although the skilled labour is rarer these days, a lot more work could feasibly be done by modern machinery with modern materials which might balance out production costs. I guess if you compare with the current entry level DB9 series Aston at circa £ 130,000 the AC if they built a modern equivalent to the 428 would be about £ 155,000 today, probably too expensive to sell in viable quantities, especially if it still used a 'bought in' high performance engine. The most expensive Frua that I know of that has actually sold was the Convertible CF12 advertised at £ 175,000 for about a year which had gradually gone up in asking price over a period of 3 to 4 years as it passed through various auction and dealer's hands. Although advertised at that figure we do not know what it actually sold for of course or if part exchanges were involved as that is between the dealer concerned and whoever bought it

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428 Frua Forum / 1969 Frua Coupe for sale

« on: September 29, 2012, 08:25:44 »

I've always had concerns about the lack of MOT's in America as they are one possible way we have of keeping an eye on mileages covered. Most American cars that find their way across the pond to here have little history but invariably claim low  'genuine' mileages which can rarely be substantiated. When Heritage classics advertised the car they described it as a 'superbly original car with just 19,598 miles' . Look at Hyman's advert and you will see that today the car shows 16,829 miles !!! Somebody has been doing a lot of reversing...........
   I would say Jeffrey that if somebody doesn't really want to sell their car they can ask as high a price as they want for it, as that is one way to help the values rise which is in most owners interest as lets face it, one day a car may have to be sold either for financial needs or for a change of vehicle or for health reasons. Super rare exotica will all increase in value in a rising market, the rarer the better.

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428 Frua Forum / 1969 Frua Coupe for sale

« on: September 28, 2012, 20:58:45 »

lol well I hope you bought a ticket Paul ! I reckon that if you look back over the last 10 years, on average 3 or 4 Frua's changed hands every year either at auction or from normal dealer or private advertising. Some of these will be the same cars changing hands repeatedly as the market rises. I would imagine some are bought purely for potential investment or profit, and some simply rise in value to the point where the owner feels the money would be more useful than the car, such is the way of the world thankfully, otherwise no desirable classics would ever come back onto the market......... keeping my fingers crossed for your lottery ticket

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428 Frua Forum / 1969 Frua Coupe for sale

« on: September 27, 2012, 22:33:20 »

By the way I see the car has had some nice detailing done since 2008, together with a $ 200,000 price growth, but as nikbj68  pointed out still no AC badge added !

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428 Frua Forum / 1969 Frua Coupe for sale

« on: September 27, 2012, 22:30:31 »

Paul, I was at the Bonhams, Hendon sale at the end of April this year, 1969 RHD Fastback CF 46 was sold there for £ 77,600 including premium ( I think estimate was £ 65,000 to £ 75,000 ). Car was very nice but not perfect, a very sensible price. CF 42 was one of only 6 RHD examples so that might have caused a hike in bidding last November, after all you only need a couple of keen ( wealthy ) bidders to push a car higher than expected. I seem to remember CF 42 was estimated at about £ 80,000 to £ 100,000 in the catalogue so greatly exceeded expectations.

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428 Frua Forum / 1969 Frua Coupe for sale

« on: September 27, 2012, 09:45:15 »

At current exchange rates the most expensive Fastback I've seen by about £ 50,000 but I guess nothing ventured, nothing gained, Hyman may well get lucky. But looks like a totally original and correct ( I mean standard as it may well have been restored ) looking example. Unusually the sills ( rockers to my American friends ) are the correct curved panels with the correct jacking points and the carpet looks factory correct also. The electric window switches are the correct factory fitted ones for this year build ( usually broken or changed by now ) and it must have been one of the last cars built with the fresh air ducting still in the engine compartment. I know the top hose is not original as it should be rubber but it looks superb in alloy. I'm guessing Emmanuel and Jeffrey you know this car well ?

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428 Frua Forum / 428 Insurance

« on: May 14, 2012, 20:49:06 »

Clifford, suggest you try Footman James or Aeon, but you might find that the down side of increasing values is a sudden hike in classic insurance quotes as we cannot expect the companies to charge a premium of only £200 to £300 any more for cars that might be worth £ 100,000 upwards. The higher values will sadly mean more likelihood of theft and also higher repair costs in the event of an accident. You might find more of the insurance companies will soon be requiring trackers or other thatcham 2 alarm/immobilisers to be fitted to more valuable cars.

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428 Frua Forum / CF 64 coming up for auction

« on: May 01, 2012, 22:09:36 »

Hi Clifford, do you think Bonhams might do their marketing later as they take consignments on much closer to the actual sale than some of the other companies and therefore have a shorter lead time? It's all very well RM marketing a couple of months before but that might not attract sellers that suddenly need to offload a car due to unexpected circumstances, or possibly the need to realise fast cash to buy something else they want even more. Quick cash sales are really only available selling to dealers or at auctions, as selling privately to try and achieve a top market value can take many months with more unusual cars and some people do not have time or the inclination. That expensive convertible as you pointed out went through several dealers and I think took 2 years to finally go into private hands and ( probably ) none of us know the final selling price or if it involved one or more part exchanges. Surprisingly quite a large number of high value classic car buyers treat their purchases in the same way as they do their modern luxury cars, in that they don't mind dropping money when they want to move them on quickly because they fancy a change........

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428 Frua Forum / CF 64 coming up for auction

« on: May 01, 2012, 00:14:21 »

Paul, even if the cars are advertised weeks in advance of an auction the viewing is only ever on the day of the auction or very occasionally the day before. It would not be viable to get all the cars from all over Europe or indeed other parts of the World long in advance of the auction ( the 428 came in from Germany for the auction ), plus not only would transport and storage probably be prohibitive for the auction house, but also other costs like insurance and cleaning / maintenance be too high. I also cannot imagine many owners being too keen to leave their sometimes very valuable pride and joy for weeks in someone else's hands. Surprisingly we still have a lot of people contact us that do not have computers and do not use the internet, so they might well feel it is fairer for the auction cars to be marketed in regular magazine adverts and catalogues. It might not have occurred to you but I believe sometimes the auction houses do not actually want to 'over-promote' a sale. Most of the auction venues in this country are generally full on the day and if you had 2000 potential buyers turn up at a venue that realistically holds 400 bidders you start to run into logistical problems. Even the bidding registration can be a time consuming and lengthy process if there are too many people. They don't after all want hundreds of tyre kickers and dreamers.

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428 Frua Forum / CF 64 coming up for auction

« on: April 30, 2012, 21:52:16 »

I was actually at the auction today and it was extremely well attended and busy with a large number of serious buyers there. A high percentage of cars sold. I think you will find that Bonhams mail shot all of their registered buyers and sellers as like most auction houses they mostly have repeat customers. It seems to me that they knew most of the room on a first name basis. There were several bidders on the 428 including me but I stopped at a realistic ceiling because of the steep 15% buyers premium ( plus 20% VAT on the premium ). You need at least 2 bidders getting carried away to see high figures and had me or other bidders gone higher who knows what the winning bidder might have gone up to, that's the fun ( and risk ) of auctions, although I haven't been to one for several years before today.  Bonhams do not usually list their cars on the 2 main classic websites so that is why you probably did not see the AC mentioned. It was indeed listed on their auction website for that sale and was in the colour catalogue printed some time ago. Many people will not buy at auctions because you cannot even hear a car run, much less drive it or have it checked over and today it was so dark at the venue that you could not see most of the cars properly! Several people bought over the phone or internet and would not have been able to see the cars beforehand. To be honest some of the cars bought 'blind' today were poor quality and there may be a few disappointed buyers once they take delivery!

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428 Frua Forum / CF 64 coming up for auction

« on: April 30, 2012, 19:28:40 »

The car sold for £ 67,000 plus buyer's premium, a much more realistic market price for an immaculate fastback in the face of 1 or 2 exceptional auction results in the last year. They were probably caused by 2 or 3 enthusiastic bidders pushing each other up a bit too much. It needed a couple of minor cosmetics on the paint.

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428 Frua Forum / 1967 Motor Show Pathé Newsreel

« on: February 17, 2012, 20:05:26 »

Amazing have we really gone forward much in the last 45 years? Look through the whole report and witness the Ford electric town car !

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428 Frua Forum / YouTube clip Ac 428 tyres

« on: February 16, 2012, 18:28:50 »

Going to a lower profile does not necessarily give you better grip and as you pointed out Clifford does not fill the wheel arches as nicely as the correct size Avon or Michelin. The originals are known as 205 VR15 but they are in fact effectively 205/80 VR15, I never figured out why the 80 was left out on older tyres. Going to 215/70 VR15 does not quite make up the lost diameter and you are quite right in your assumption, will cause the speedo to read incorrectly and affect the gearing for cruising ( albeit neither will change much ).