AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Ace 'Brooklands' Forum => Topic started by: MikeP on November 12, 2019, 18:55:05
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Does anyone know who can supply and fit a convertible hood for a 1996 Ace Brooklands which has the mechanism but no fabric covering. From what I have found on this forum the hood is from a Peugeot 306. Would one of these Peugeot hoods fit? Any leads, tips or advice would be most welcome
Thanks
Mike
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Mike
If you are in the UK, Give Mike Wheatley of Elite Coach Trimming a call.
Mobile number : 07949 980260
land line : 01933 443422
53 Rixon Road
Finedon Road Ind Estate
Wellingborough
Northamptonshire
NN8 4BA
Specialist in Aston Martin, but will do any vehicle...……..
Traditional and Modern material used i.e. Connolly Hide, Wilton Carpet, Mohair Hooding, Woolcloth, Doby lining, Alcantara etc
Keith
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Good tip from Keith. Hope you are one of the lucky one's with working ecu and hydraulic pump.
The hood profile is not the same as a Peugeot 306. The similarities to the Peugeot are that both vehicles use Power Packer control units, hydraulic pumps and have the same opening and closing cycle.
The hydraulic mechanism on the roof frame end does not look the same.
Other posts have stated that the control unit from a 306 does not work. Sofar I hav'nt found a replacement control unit or pump to compare exactly. I have compared the pump using pictures, the only differences I can see are that the manifold on the pump has 12 pipes connected on the Ace, 8 on the 306. I think this maybe because there is an extra rear arch and hood cover hydraulic ram compared to the 306 which would require 4 extra hydraulic feeds but I'm guessing here. The electric motor driving the pump can also have different drive shaft ends that transfer the drive to the pump part. Otherwise the motor looks as if its interchangable. I've stripped down mine after it blew a fuse (water-logged), cleaned and lubricated it and its still going strong.
/Paho
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Thanks guys.Great information. I will give Mike Wheatley a call. Hopefully he can help and get a car back on the road.
Cheers
Mike
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I have spoken to Mike Wheatley and he can do the hood fabric in mohair for a very reasonable price. So all good. Thanks again for the assistance. It is much appreciated.
Cheers
Mike
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Good tip from Keith. Hope you are one of the lucky one's with working ecu and hydraulic pump.
/Paho
The ECU is unique to these, but a 306 one used the same blank unit. I have someone who has designed a new ECU, currently under development...... let me know if interested.
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Well done Nev.
I've a project to do the same based on the Arduino UNO micro controller, but other things have got in the way so I've only done is 85% of an operation sequence list sofar, plus collected the components I need.
/Paho
Noted that other posts indictated problems sourcing the hydraulic oil used in the pump. The oil is ISO 32 standard mineral hydraulic oil, Peugeot part number is 9735.57 but I use a lighter oil due to colder climate.
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It gets worse. It seems that the hood mechanism is not the original Ac mechanism but is an incorrect mechanism from another car which could not be made to work.
So....... I am looking for a complete hood from a scrapped car if such a thing exists. A bit like finding a golden unicorn but if you don't ask.....
Cheers
Mike
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Mike, my roof has a manufacturer's label with the following: Detec Gmbh, Hamburg Germany. Type A2 Date 10 06 1995, Serial no. S0020, see attached photo.
I've tried to identify the company without success.
You could try Redline Engineering, they are pretty helpful.
/Paho
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Thanks Paho,
That is a very helpful lead.I will chase that one up to see if any info can be found or even an actual hood!
Cheers
Mike
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According to the story I was told back in 2001 when I bought my car without hood from Duncan Hamilton the German supplier went broke because AC didn’t pay for the hoods supplied. If correct think you’ll draw a blank with Detec.
I was lucky. My Ace came with all hydraulic & electronic equipment still installed, but minus hood and frame. I managed to pick up a complete hood assembly from contact up North. But as is the way with low volume, hand built cars, frame didn’t fit. To get good fit and operating properly took many frustrating manhours.
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Hi Mike,
There are a few of us who need complete hoods, when I last spoke to John Abel on this subject he did tell me that the original manufacturer had refused to make any more until he was the outstanding monies, so not surprised by Max advising he went out of business.
Not sure if John managed to get any further or found a frame from which we could make a copy.
David
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David
Can you not get someone to make a frame from an existing car with working hood and frame. Mine for example?
Regards
Nigel
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Well I offered
Nobody replied, pretty much as usual
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Nigel,
I thought your offer was pretty "d...n" generous, surprised no one took you up on it.
Its worth documenting the dimensions and construction for posterity if nothing else.
It's winter here so I havn't been too keen to go out and examine my roof construction,
but when I do I'll share the info. with you for comparision.
BR /Paho
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Paho
Cheers
And your on
Regards
Nigel
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Nigel, apologies just seen your response from November, Work always gets in the way of enjoying life!! The offer is very kind and something I would like to look into, not knowing how the soft top is attached to the frame I think the frame would need to be measured with soft top still attached [ think it would be unwise to do remove]
I will speak to my local AC specialist / racing company to obtain a couple of businesses that may be willing to look at undertaking this work plus of course the coach trimmers mentioned in an earlier post.
Is the frame visible from inside the hood?
regards
David
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Is there anyone out there with an Ace who has neither hood nor hardtop?
My Ace came with a hardtop when originally purchased, but was lucky in that I was in the right place at right time to pick up a complete hood couple of years later (although paid lots for it!). Consequently, hardtop just sits in the garage unused, so might be persuaded to part with it.
Regards making a hood, having experienced in distant past the difficulty making a factory supplied hood fit and work, to make a frame from scratch would IMV be a project thwart with problems/frustration, even if armed with very accurate measurements.
Max
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As stated I have been down to see my local specialist - RW Racing.
The view is that it might be possible to have a hood/frame made from another even when the hood is still attached, however to confirm this he would really like to see the soft top
For now he has asked if it was possible to supply some pictures both inside and out.
Nigel, are you able to provide a few pictures?
Second question is the same soft top used on both the early and the later cars?
David
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Hi David,
As requested, some pics of hood frame in various positions when being lowered. To help make sense of the pics I've tried to put them in some kind of sequence and how the various parts move as the hood cycles.
I don't know how many pics can be sent in one hit, so have sent four at a time.
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More pics
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More pics
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I hope the above helps.
Max
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Hi Max,
thanks for all the photos, will download them all and send over to RWRacing for comment on feasibility. Do not expect any feedback until new year
David
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Hi David,
Pleased pics are of some use and hope RW Racing are able to come up with a half reasonable price.
Another problem you'll have is the seals round the windows. They weren't sourced from a car maker's parts bin, but made especially for the Ace. I was given to believe I had the last set available way back in 2000 when my hard top was trimmed out as part of deal to buy car. COH -Baines can make them but their minimum run rate make it pricey for one set.
Max
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Gentlemen,
my interest in these issues stemmed from the hydraulic pump 30Amp fuse blowing continously on my Ace, caused by a seized pump motor;
plus the problems people have with the ECU unit. I looked around for a new pump and found that Audi and Peugeot used similar
pumps for their 1990's models from Power Packer. Replacements are not cheap., so I stripped and cleaned the motor and that fixed the problem.
A few observations:
- When looking for parts for the Ace I usually find they have been sourced from other vehicle manufactures or their suppliers. I.e Peugoet/Citroen, BMW, Porsche, Ford Europe and North America etc.
- Looking at similar cabriolet solutions on other vehicles I found that Audi, Alfa and Peugeot models from the 1990's
had the same open and closing sequences and used ECU and hydraulic pump components from "PowerPacker".
- I found that the same roof operation sequences are used for the Peugeot 306 cab, Audi 80 cab and Alfa Romeo 916 Spider, and that they are illustrated in videos
on Youtube, e.g. search for "Peugeot 306 cabriolet roof problems", see one example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0shorR_3JAw
- I searched for a more detailed description of the system used and I found a high level description of the Peugeot 306 with schematics from an
Australian site Peugeotlogic.com, look under the Workshop page, then Body Work. There you will find a guide provided by the Peugeot Cabriolet Owners Club.
I'm not suggesting you can transplant another roof onto your Ace, but this at least describes the roof operation principles in more detail than any
other information I have found sofar.
God Jul /Paho
P.S. The Alfa hydraulic pump appears to have a 12 pipe manifold similar to the Ace.
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Thanks Paho for the additional information. I have sent the pictures over plus a link to this discussion
David
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Don Trimming in Erdington, Birmingham made me one last year for just under £1000. They had the car in for about five days and made to fit in mohair. They've been in business for ever it seems and can be strongly recommended without any reservations.
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Thanks for this information and useful for other owners. Rough order of cost I had for a 1 off frame and soft top was £5k. At present, no surprise, I have not discussed this further. At that price I would probably rather put money into some engine changes.
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Out of interest what sort of changes do you have in mind?
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Hi Max, was trying to build the car back to its original HP output of 340 at the crank. When we went to re- tune the car I was advised thar as our cars have the low cost cranks with the 50oz weight on end that the engines will rev to 5100 after which the cranks get of sync and break ( confirmed with Peter Knight). Therefore if I want to take the car above the 5100 and retune we will need to replace the crank with the old version that uses 25oz weight, I would assume that just replacing the Crank is only part of the work and hopefully some one on the forum will be able to advise what work needs to be done.
Of course could go Real steel and buy one of there 302 engines or alternatively I could get a 351 engine from another source - but I think these engines are taller and heavier but lower cost than the other 2 options.
So if someone could enlighten me on the crank replacement would be appreciated
David
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David ,
I have sent you an email on engine mods, however on the Mk IV / CRS Section people did do some air filter & spark plug mods to overcome some low output issues.
There’s no easy ,low cost solution due to what was installed and the UK mot regulations on emmissions.
I’m not sure what engines were installed in the Brooklands Aces or gearbox configuration but am surprised you have the 50oz external weight.
Graham
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Gentlemen,
my interest in these issues stemmed from the hydraulic pump 30Amp fuse blowing continously on my Ace, caused by a seized pump motor;
plus the problems people have with the ECU unit. I looked around for a new pump and found that Audi and Peugeot used similar
pumps for their 1990's models from Power Packer. Replacements are not cheap., so I stripped and cleaned the motor and that fixed the problem.
A few observations:
- When looking for parts for the Ace I usually find they have been sourced from other vehicle manufactures or their suppliers. I.e Peugoet/Citroen, BMW, Porsche, Ford Europe and North America etc.
- Looking at similar cabriolet solutions on other vehicles I found that Audi, Alfa and Peugeot models from the 1990's
had the same open and closing sequences and used ECU and hydraulic pump components from "PowerPacker".
- I found that the same roof operation sequences are used for the Peugeot 306 cab, Audi 80 cab and Alfa Romeo 916 Spider, and that they are illustrated in videos
on Youtube, e.g. search for "Peugeot 306 cabriolet roof problems", see one example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0shorR_3JAw
- I searched for a more detailed description of the system used and I found a high level description of the Peugeot 306 with schematics from an
Australian site Peugeotlogic.com, look under the Workshop page, then Body Work. There you will find a guide provided by the Peugeot Cabriolet Owners Club.
I'm not suggesting you can transplant another roof onto your Ace, but this at least describes the roof operation principles in more detail than any
other information I have found sofar.
God Jul /Paho
P.S. The Alfa hydraulic pump appears to have a 12 pipe manifold similar to the Ace.
Going back through older posts regarding hood operation (or lack of it!) i came across this one from Paho. My hood mechanism is completely dead, no operating lights on the dash etc - the motor is fine, the ECU checks out as fine and all the hood pivots are free. Seeing the bit about a 30 amp fuse blowing, I've been through the fuse lists in the car's handbook and can't find one listed in either the central fuse box or the Auxiliary one! Is this a separate fuse and where do I need to look to find it please? Any help most welcome as I feel such an idiot standing behind the driver's seat trying to pull the hood up manually......!
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Its a 30 amp line fuse near the battery, if I remember correctly. Thought I had a photo but can't find one at the moment. Will post one when I go up to the garage next. My fuse blew because the pump was immersed in water, I never found the leak, so I drilled a drainage hole instead.
BR /Paho
Here is a pic of the line fuses connected to the battery, the white fuse holder with red cable is for the pump, the black is for the aerial:
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Many thanks! I had exactly the same problem - motor immersed in water and pretty rusty inside. Stripped it down and cleaned it up, bit of grease, connected it to a 12v battery and it spun up with so much torque it disappeared across the workbench and pulled the leads off the battery......
Bought a spare brand new one for £50 many years ago from the spares department at Brooklands, the last one off the shelf!
I've searched in the boot compartments before now and have turned up with an online 3 amp spade fuse which seems to be for the radio / aerial but no other fuses. I'll have another search just in case I've missed it.....
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With regards to the ECU, I have been working with someone to build a brand new and improved replacement…. Personal message me for more info..