AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: cobra06FR on September 13, 2017, 22:27:30
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Hi All,
I am new on this forum. I live on the sunny south part of France and I dream finding an AC MK IV autokraft from 1987 or earlier.
I recently spotted an AK in Germany, from 1986. The car has a valid german registration. However the car does not have a VIN plate and is referred to through its AK number on alll official papers and not through its VIN like if it never received a VIN.
Could anyone on this forum help me understand this AK-VIN business i.e. why some AC MKVI autokraft seems not to have any VIN ? any chance I can find the missing VIN somehow for this german AC MKIV Autokraft ?
The reason for which I am desperately trying to sort this VIN problem out, is because I will not be able to get the car registered in France without the VIN
So if anyone was able to give me some advice on that, I would very much appreciate.
Many thanks in advance
Cobra06FR
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Hi Laurent,
I have a 1984 MK IV legally registrated in Germany and I only have the AK number. I think the AK number is the VIN number but it has not the "standard" form of 17 characters, just 6 (= AKxxxx). The euopean VIN was introduced 1981. Germany has used this guidelines 1984. So I don't know why a 1986 MK IV has not the 17 characters VIN.
Kind regards,
Peter
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Hello Laurent,
I sent you a mail.
Constant
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Laurent,
Have you checked the existence of a proper 17 digit VIN hammered into the front cross brace linking the suspension points?
Constant
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Many Thanks MKIV Lux and dkp-cobra, for you feed-back.
I Will continue to direct thé German mechaniker to try and find the number in the car, but I suspect that I am in the same situation as you dkp-cobra - I.e only AKxxxx.
The stupidity of the French administration is that they won't just accept this cold hammered number.
I have also followed up MKIV Lux advise and have mailed the AC company in UK to try and get the number or a certification for the car-
I keep my fingers crossed for the moment
I'll keep you posted
Laurent
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quote:
Originally posted by cobra06FR
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The stupidity of the French administration is that they won't just accept this cold hammered number.
...
Aren't there any exceptions? How do you register a really old car from the 30th or 40th which has definitely no 17 digit VIN?
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Hi dkp,
No problem to get it registered actually if the car was actually homologated in France at the time.
In the case of the cobra's , AC's has never been registerd officially as a car builder in France.
To my knowledge there are only 2 AC autokraft that have been officialy registerd in France in the 1980'S1990's. I know of a 3rd one that has been officially registerd couple of years ago after years of battle.
so in this case of an AC, what you need to do is go through the FFVE (antic car federation) and provide as many information as possible that proves the car is above 30 , then they will confirm officially that the car you want to registerd is a "true" authentic and moreover they can trace it is more than 30 years old (requisit for them to consider the car "antic").
Through negociation, I manage to convince them with the hammered AKnumber as well as reference of the official Shelby registry (that includes AK's) that the car was a "real one" - Moreover in the shelby registry, there is no refernce to the VIN number so it confirms that from the currently available infos the car seems not to have a VIN.
I keep my fingers crossed, hopefully I shall be able to find my way through to successfully registering in France but ... hard work
Many thanks again for your help
Laurent
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Laurent,
The car was originally (?) registered in Germany. Do the German registration docs not show evidence of initial registration date?
Cheers
Constant
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Laurent,
My 1985 MkIV is only identified by the AK number on the car and official paperwork BUT the factory records do show a full VIN.
Have you contacted the Mk IV registrar, he may have details?
John.
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The ACOC's Mk IV Register shows 17 digit VINs for most of the cars listed there.
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I am able to provide the VIN for all MkIVs, based on the AK number - if it is included in the AC/Autokraft chassis register. You can reach me on tlegate@btinternet.com if you prefer
All I require is a case or three of Chateau Lafitte-Rothschild 2009.... :)
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WARNING!
Spelling & syntax errors are key advance fee fraud indicators. Tread carefully bearing in mind 'TLegate's' novel vinious appellation.
RS
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quote:
Originally posted by 302EFI
The ACOC's Mk IV Register shows 17 digit VINs for most of the cars listed there.
Hey 302EFI. Thanks for the advice. I exchanged with the registrar following MKIVLUX suggestion ut he does not have the VIN for this car like if the car was never issued one.
It is really strange as AK1158 and AK1160 have one.
BR
L
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quote:
Originally posted by TLegate
I am able to provide the VIN for all MkIVs, based on the AK number - if it is included in the AC/Autokraft chassis register. You can reach me on tlegate@btinternet.com if you prefer
All I require is a case or three of Chateau Lafitte-Rothschild 2009.... :)
Hi TLegate,
Thanks for your advice. Let's have a try, The AK number is 1159.
Many thanks in advance and if you find the number, then if you pass by my southy France, I could make you try few some of our wines - not called Laffite-Rothschild but pretty respectable too. ;-)
BR
L
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Typical!! All previous 7 cars on that page of the chassis register have their vin number - but not 1159. (But four of the following five cars on the next page do not have their vin either...)
I have the name and address of the original owner (Berlin) and I know it was black/blue interior with a map pocket added along with windwings, s/s side vents and spare wheel cover. I have the key numbers for the ignition, glovebox, boot, bonnet and fuel cap and I know it had a 302 carb engine. But no vin. :(
If the sequence of vin numbers were continued, 1159 should be: SA9AK3020GAO17159. But it's not shown, so cannot be proved.
Either way, I'm on my way to southy France!!
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quote:
Originally posted by TLegate
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If the sequence of vin numbers were continued, 1159 should be: SA9AK3020GAO17159. But it's not shown, so cannot be proved.
Trevor, what is your logic to alledge that the 9th and 10th position should be 0G (zero Gee)?
The 12th position is a 0 not an O (zero not Oscar)!
Cheers
Constant
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Not much logic - the entry is hand written and I took a 'best guess' based on the way the '0' and 'O' were written. I happily stand corrected and send apologies for any confusion
(Plus the first letter 'S' looks very like a '5')
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no problem Trevor,
I have not made up any logic yet for the 9th and 10th position, except that 9th is numerical and 10th is alphabetical
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Little help with decoding VIN#SA9AK3020GAO17159 (as an example)
SA9 = World Manufacturer Identifier
AK302 = Vehicle Attributes, in this case AutoKraft 302cid
0 = is a check digit used in decoding the VIN and is generally not used by low volume manufacturers
G = Model year
A = Plant code
017 = manufacturer identifier, this is an assigned code and should not change
159 = last three digits from the chassis number
So if the car has the chassis#AK1159, Trevor may well be correct in assuming the VIN# is sequential, with perhaps the model year being the only other variable
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Rob,
thanks for the explanation.
Looking at the registered VINs Model year G stands for 1986, H being '87, J for 88 ... (I, O, Q are are prohibited for avoiding confusion).
The check digit (9th position) however does not seem to follow any rational ?
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Constant, the check digit is totally random with low volume manufacturers. The only reason I know anything about this, was that it was a major exercise to get the VIN decoded for my car and accepted by the authorities
Explanation:
The check digit for a VIN is obtained through a number of mathematical steps. Each letter used in a VIN has a corresponding number value, while numbers stay the same. Therefore, the VIN becomes a string of 17 numbers (with a space in the ninth position, where the check digit goes). Each position in the VIN has a weight - the number of times that digit is multiplied.
For example, the weight of position one is eight. A computer multiplies the number in position one is by 8. Then it multiplies all 16 numbers by the appropriate weight for their position in the VIN, adds the results together and divides that result by 11. The remainder becomes the check digit. If the remainder is 10, the check digit is X.
Example:
Using our theoretical VIN for AK1159 the check digit should be 4
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/2nosv6k0g5d9q6l/VIN%20Decoded.PNG?dl=0)
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Thanks Rob,
All very scientific and clear now. 4 being the 4/11 remaining in the fraction. We (continentals) have to refrain from our usual numerical thinking here.
Cheers
Constant
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Dear Laurent,
I have a 1986 MkIV registered in France (was a painful process).
Contact me on rvonwedel@gmail.com
Rudiger
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Ok, finally have a green flag from SAAC as the new registrar in the states and the old SAAC records given to me which I hope to merge with UK group to allow a new publication of an AC AKL registry.
It would be similar to the new cool spring and buggy spring registries.
....Stories
.......Specification
.......,,,Model options
Maybe interview with Ford engineer that worked with Anglis on these cars.
Then detail updates to previous big book.
Idea is digitize so we can reprint and keep cost reasonable every 3-5 years.
Goal is by year end....