AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Recent ACs => Topic started by: shep on October 16, 2016, 13:04:39
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I just read the article in the October ACtion on Steve Gray's new batch of continuation Cobras, to be manufactured by his company AC Heritage at Brooklands. Priced at £500,000 each, I wondered what people thought about the exercise, which apparently has Alan Lubinsky's support?
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What is very strange is that the specification suggests a live rear axle & implied with transverse springs, so I do not know how the springs are to be held up!
Anyway surly the chassis /suspension should be transverse springs with wishbone independent suspension all round as per the original Ace which obviously has a separate diff assembly.
In terms of making replicas this is a very high cost & effectively premium for an AC badge when replicas of the same Original specification can be purchased from Hawk Cars for considerably less!
The other issue is they are all left hand drive cars also if to be purchased in UK how will they pass IVA without considerable modification?
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How will they pass emissions tests with a "new" 260 engine? How can they be original spec if they wish to pass the IVA test where switches etc will have to be rocker switches to comply with latest requirements?
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November's Cobra Corner poses the questions:
- Built to the exact specification of the very first 1962 Cobra....Will Legacy Edition cobras meet road use standards?
- AC Cars will build nine....Build in what sense?
- They will be handbuilt at AC Heritage.... But who is the Manufacturer?
- AC Cobra...260... Sure?
- Cobra.... Sure?
- MkI.... Sure?
- AC was established in 1901.... Sure?
- AC....retains the distinction of being the oldest British car maker still in operation... Still in operation?
- The original factory blue.... Where does this novel proposition come from?
- Live rear axle.... Another novel proposition?
CC also suggests, where known, the answers.
RS
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Is the Hawk comparable to the new Steve Gray cars? I thought the Hawk was fiberglass and the AC Heritage cars aluminum.
When the CSX7000 series was announced the fiberglass cars were to be $96,000 and the aluminum cars $160,000 less running gear and so a complete aluminum car would have been around $200,000 US.
Being built by AC Heritage with AC licensing would add value but maybe not $300,000, but again with a volume of 9 they will be exclusive.
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I thought the "Cobra" name was owned by Ford - or Shelby? Even when AC produced the cars for the home market in the mid 1960s they had to call them the AC 289 or 427. I understood AC never marketed a car in the UK called a Cobra. Is that correct? Some time ago I saw the names which had been registered in the UK by Lubenski and I don't recall the Cobra name being amongst them. Perhaps I am wrong. It would be good if any one can clarify his.
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Simon,
The ACOC library has, I believe, all relevant copies of Cobra tredemark applications and grants. If you want access please email John Spencer. Alternatively, email me for the ACtion article's text.
RS
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A. L. Support?.....beware!,,
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Simon, if I remember well, Ford had to give up its rights on the Cobra brand in Europe, not confirmed, but heard in several conversations with AC Automotive GmbH.
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Emmanuel,
This is not as I understand it. Acedes Holdings llc, St.Kitts-Nevis c/o PO Box 103, Sliema Post Office, Malta filed for the trademark AC Cobra on 24th April 2007. This filing was abandoned on 31st January 2008 and is recorded as Dead.
Next month’s ACtion sets out the questions and provides answers where known.
RS
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Thanks Robin, actually Acedes reiterated the demand in 2015.
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Unsuccessfully, it would appear.
Not only does http://www.ac-automotive.com/en.html not have the C word after AC; it doesn't have the C word at all. Customers, who can choose between Mk VI GTs, Mk VI GT BIG BLOCKs, Mk VI GTSs and Mk VI GTSRs, get an 'AC', not an 'AC C****'.
RS
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quote:
Originally posted by jrlucke
Is the Hawk comparable to the new Steve Gray cars? I thought the Hawk was fiberglass and the AC Heritage cars aluminum.
When the CSX7000 series was announced the fiberglass cars were to be $96,000 and the aluminum cars $160,000 less running gear and so a complete aluminum car would have been around $200,000 US.
Being built by AC Heritage with AC licensing would add value but maybe not $300,000, but again with a volume of 9 they will be exclusive.
why should being build by AC Heritage add value compared to a CSX 7000 with aluminium body? the earlier CSX 7000 were build by SAI under Carroll Shelby himself with MSO's signed by him, what do AC Heritage have in common with the original company beside the name affix "AC"?
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AC Legacy Edition on display at the MACAU MOTORSHOW (http://"https://mobile.twitter.com/BrooklandsCars/status/794598398435487744").
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quote:
Originally posted by rstainer
Unsuccessfully, it would appear.
Not only does http://www.ac-automotive.com/en.html not have the C word after AC; it doesn't have the C word at all. Customers, who can choose between Mk VI GTs, Mk VI GT BIG BLOCKs, Mk VI GTSs and Mk VI GTSRs, get an 'AC', not an 'AC C****'. RS
Well, according to "THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE OF AC CARS" (http://"http://www.accars.eu/breaking_news.html"): "AC, AC Cobra, Ace, AC Bristol are Registered Trademarks of Acedes Holdings, LLC | Copyright © 2016 " [;)]
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
AC Legacy Edition on display at the MACAU MOTORSHOW (http://"https://mobile.twitter.com/BrooklandsCars/status/794598398435487744").
They were still replicas !
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Rob,
My understanding is that the project's originators hoped that their "fortunate few" target market would have nine members, that any other than the first car would be built to order, that the target market hope has not been realised and that 'few', to date, is fewer than two.
I may be wrong: any authoritative correction would be welcome.
RS
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I fear that AC Automotive is no longer an active company. Let's see what come out of the ashes, Mr. Lubinsky is relentless about the brand AC.
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Emmanuel refers to AC Automotive GmbH (Straubenhardt, Germany), the Jürgen Mohr/Laurent Abert company that may have ceased physical existence.
A glossy motor magazine could at some stage spot a rising Phoenix but the UK Lubinsky companies do not appear to prosper:
AC Car Group Ltd: A dormant £2 company
AC Cars Ltd: A dormant £1 company
AC Cars Manufacturing Ltd: A dormant £1 company
AC Cars (England) Ltd: A dormant £1 company
AC Cars (Eu) Ltd: No evident activity - shareholder funds minus £153,651
Autokraft (UK) Limited: A dormant £1 company
Autokraft Advanced Technology Ltd: No evident activity - shareholder funds minus £120,182
Zenos Cars Ltd: A dormant £1 company
Zenos Cars (Europe) Ltd: A dormant £1 company.
RS
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Rob,
ACEDES Holdings LLC was a Malta company (PO Box 103, Silema) that ceased operations in 2008: “The owner of a sports car manufacturing company who in 2005 was granted half a million Euros in government aid to transfer his factory to Malta, abandoned the factory and fled the island, without paying anything back to Maltese authorities” (the Malta Star, 18 March 2008).
It appears the ‘company’ was then transferred to another country not normally associated with car manufacturing, St Kitts-Nevis.
Is AC still in business? Taking the conventional meaning of business (operations, markets etc) the evidence suggests NO.
RS
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Rob,
The AC Mk VI GTs, Mk VI GT BIG BLOCKs, Mk VI GTSs and Mk VI GTSRs (not, please note, 'Cobras') were manufactured by AC Automotive GmbH (Straubenhardt, Germany), the Jürgen Mohr/Laurent Abert company that may have ceased physical existence (see Spatnik post above).
Is someone, somewhere, still manufacturing these cars? The evidence would suggest not.
RS
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Rob,
This should really be addressed to Constant Wagner, but I’ll have a stab at an answer.
All vehicles sold as manufactured vehicles need a manufacturer of record - under ISO 3779 it’s the world manufacturer identifier, the first three digits of the VIN/car number. ACOC Registers only list cars where AC (or Shelby American for Shelby contract ACs) is the manufacturer of record and AC has advised us, or we’ve had reliable information from other impartial sources, about the VINs and dates of cars sold or ready for sale.
AC hasn’t provided us with any information for almost twenty years and we’ve received no reliable information from impartial sources, so no register for cars made this century. You may put me right, but I don’t know of any current AC company that is a manufacturer of record.
The ACOC defines an original car as one having continuous history as a complete vehicle since manufacture. ‘Fake’ (a thing that is claimed to be other than what it is) is a more nebulous term; for example, some would call FIA HTP Cobras built this century fakes, but if they’re properly described they’re genuine but not ACs. I would describe them as genuine replicas if they replicate the performance and behaviour of the period and non-genuine replicas if they don’t. Genuine unless defined is as nebulous as fake unless defined.
RS
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Rob,
Even if less than 500 there must be a known ‘manufacturer of record’ for it to be classed as an AC. If an owners’ club doesn’t know who made the vehicle, the owners’ club can’t include it in its register. Not one of the AC companies in the 3rd March post above lists its ‘Nature of Business’ as ‘Manufacture of Motor Vehicles’ (SIC 29100).
However, I’m only the Thames Ditton Cobra Registrar and not on the Club’s Council. Any proposed changes to Club policy need to be put to Council via Constant Wagner or Andy Shepherd.
RS
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Rob,
Our registrar’s efforts are not in vain.
Until, I believe, the 70s the AC Car Number and UK VIN were the same. For example, the Vehicle Registration Document for my 62 Cobra has VIN: CSX2042. When the UK vehicle registration authorities and motor manufacturers adopted ISO 3779 VINs, most EU manufacturers took the whole 17 digits to be the car number but a small number, producing low-volume retro vehicles, kept the same retro-format car number but incorporated their car number (or enough of it to identify the vehicle) in digits 10 to 17 to provide clear identification of the particular vehicle.
All our registrars have the AC Car Number from the Factory Ledger or other authoritative sources and potential purchasers, the main register users, can easily check that the VIN incorporates the manufacturer’s car number.
If you are able produce an ACOC-policy-compliant register for ACs other than those currently listed the Club will gladly appoint you registrar for those vehicles. As regards Club policy, member recommendations for clearly-thought-through change are always welcome.
RS
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Rob,
As you rightly observe, 10 to 17 provide a wealth of ‘clear identification of the particular vehicle' information that is of much use to registrars.
There is no alternative register suggestion whatsoever and I apologise if I wasn’t clear – my suggestion was that you might like to become ACOC registrar for more recently constructed ACs.
RS
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Is someone, somewhere, still manufacturing these cars? The evidence would suggest not.
RS
Well, it would appear that the Boss Motor Company are taking orders for the “AC COBRA 378“ on EBAY (https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F312254758685)!
Quote:
AC Cobra 378 - New Cars To Order PETROL MANUAL 2019/19
white 10 miles Genuine AC Cobra New Model £89,950.00
As the official partner of AC Cars, Boss Motor Company are delighted to announce that orders are now being taken for 2019 factory built AC COBRA 378 and Superblower Models.
This car is a genuine AC Cars Product and will come with a certificate of authenticity and a designated 'COB' chassis number on the correct 'AC Cars Ltd' Chassis Plate.
A very high specification includes:
Original style 4inch round tube ladder frame chassis, 6.2 litre 440bhp V8 Engine, 6 speed gearbox, Aluminum radiator and header tank with Electric Cooling Fan, High Performance - Servo Assisted Race Specification Calipers with Ventilated Disc Brake System, 3.45:1 Ratio - Limited Slip Differential, Front and Rear Multi-Link Suspension with Coil Over Shock Absorbers, Front and Rear Anti-roll bars, Pin Drive 8" x 16" Front - 10" x 16" Rear Wheels, Hand Crafted Interior Finished in Black Leather, Glovebox in Leather, Door Map Pockets, Deep Pile Carpets, Leather Covered Instrument Panel with AC Branded Instruments, 13" Motor Litre Leather Wrapped Steering Wheel, Heater/Defroster with Air Conditioning, Chrome Plated Over-ride Bumpers Front and Rear, Side Wind Wings and Sun Visors, Dual Chrome Plated Roll Bar - With the Optional Passenger Side Roll Bar, Full Weather Equipment Including; Hood, Frame, Tonneau Cover and Side Screens, bespoke colour options.
LIST PRICE - £89950
Supply is limited so please contact us today to secure your build slot
AC COBRA 378 SUPERBLOWER (550BHP) AVAILABLE TO ORDER - LIST PRICE - £104950.