AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => General Forum => Topic started by: Exowner on October 04, 2016, 12:16:25
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3 questions
1/ Is it possible to make posting photos on our wonderful forum as easy as it is to attach a photo to an email? if not, why not?
2/Is the ACOC forum open to non-members, if so, why? After all, it is the AC owner's club forum.
3/ Why is the club in the process of wasting money on producing a Brexit register? All the registers are on the club website. Seems to be a complete waste of the club's money and, for those that give there time so willingly,a waste of it!
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Glen
I've been on the Council for at least twelve years and have missed a few meetings, like last month, Obviously missed something whilst on holiday.... ... What is this Brexit Register..[?]..[?]
Most members would appreciate a easier system of posting pictures, I will bring it up at the next Council meeting for discussion, in the meantime maybe you can write in to the Council and publish a letter in the next issue of ACtion.
The AC Owners Club is open to owners and enthusiasts of all AC models, with many owners not being affiliated to the ACOC, but have access and contribute to the general Forum, However they cannot gain entry to the Members section.
Non Members and AC Enthusiasts alike contribute to the Forum to the benefit of all, Why do You feel they should be excluded .[?]..[?]
Keith
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A fourth question;
Which other clubs' websites can be posted on by non members or is the ACOC alone in providing such access?
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Glen.
Having read and reread past Council minutes, I come to the conclusion that your referral to A Brexit Register in fact refers to producing a up to date issue of the ACOC Membership listing.
In the past many members didn't register to have their details included in the 2013 membership listing, then complained of their omission.
It was therefore suggested that all members details be included unless instructed otherwise.
Keith
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BE1058. Q. 4th The Bentley Drivers Club forum
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Keith, lifted straight from the Sept 2016 Action ACOC Council meeting review (page 10) –
REGISTERS: The editor is compiling the data for a new bound copy of all ACOC registers. It was suggested that they be called ‘The Brexit Registers’
As for your question re non-member website access: ‘why do you think they should be excluded’
If the forum is on the ACOC website, then I assume it is funded, managed and moderated by the ACOC. To allow non-members access seems strange. If someone is passionate enough about matters AC, I would have thought the first step would be to join the ACOC, then proceed to airing one’s views in Action and on the forum. I would be interested to know if issues brought up on the forum by non-members influence the actions of our guiding hands?
I have been told many times that the forum is not the recommended way to propose things, that is what Action is for, and the forum is to ask technical questions etc. exactly what ‘etc’ consists of is confusing. Maybe it would be wise to enlighten members exactly what the forum is and isn’t to be used for.
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From a purely technical point of view, implementing a public access and a member-only access to the "forum" should be rather simple.
We currently have a main forum labeled "AC Owners Club Forum" comprising 11 sub forums :
1/ ACOC News and Events
2/ General Forum
3/ AC Weller Engine
4/ Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum
5/ Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum
6/ Cobra (Thames Ditton) Forum
7/ 428 Frua Forum
8/ 3000ME Forum
9/ Mk IV, Superblower & CRS Forum
10/ Ace 'Brooklands' Forum
11/ Recent ACs
At this point all of this can be accessed publically, which in my opinion as a (fresh) member of the ACOC is really far from ideal.
What I would suggest would be to add another main forum. We would then find oursleves with a main forum open to the public, and another main forum being restricted to paid-up ACOC members.
What either of those two main areas may contain should of course be discussed, but I strongly suggest, for example, that any outing should be restricted to the members-only area.
Here is an example of what it could all look like :
1/ AC Owners club Forum (Public area)
General AC news
AC-unrelated car news
Cars for sale
etc
2/ AC Owners club Forum (Members area)
General forum
The Workshop
ACOC Events
Members' for sale ads
ACOC Partners, discounts, etc
etc
Having a functional breakdown structure of the forum would I think be more interesting and enlightening than having just a breakdown between cars where owners may not always read about other models, etc.
Food for thought.
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As already mentioned earlier by me to Committee members, I am an advocate for a Members’ only forum. I can however understand that our Forum should also be a means to communicate (two ways) with non-members. Hence a solution of a Forum composed of 2 sections could be a good idea:
1. ACOC Members Forum: hence restricted to paid-up members of the ACOC, with
o a structure (model based) as is currently in place
o this Forum would then be part of the Members’ area
2. ACOC Public Forum, with subs like:
o General AC news
o All matters AC cars related
o Technical questions
There should also be more transparency as to the Forum users’ identity.
• Under 1 above (ACOC Members’ Forum), users should be identifiable by their real name such as to avoid the need to look up the identity in the Members’ list. Here you then know to whom you “talk” and you can express yourself accordingly.
• In the Public Forum, users’ identity could still be “hidden” by means of a pseudonym.
Direct upload of photos is a prerequisite to make our Forum more attractive and more active (as opposed to uploading on a host platform, on which you need to have an account and that you need to manage, and creating links to get your photo onto the ACOC Forum. Depending on the options you have chosen to host the photos on the third-party host platform – like Photobucket, photos may disappear from the ACOC Forum after a while).
This however technically may require more hosting capacity and may eventually be more costly.
I would love to see more photos shared in the ACOC Members Forum, however I can understand that members may refrain (me included) from uploading photos on the current Forum, precisely because it is public! This issue would also be solved by a Forum with the 2 sections as described above.
A subject worth to be given further consideration.
Constant
ACOC member since 2002
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Having the forum open to non members does not cost the club anything. If you close the forum to non members , those non members are unlikely to join the club and you will deprive members of the knowledge of those people.
Yes I have an interest in AC's. It was in a past life, (12/40 sports, 16/70 special, 16/80 comp, Cobra), but I don't now want to be a member of yet another club, receive unwanted post etc and pay for it.
I fail to understand what the problem is.
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MkIV Lux makes a very good point about the privacy. I personally would never post my name or pictures of my Ace on a public www area.
Regarding posting pictures I would however suggest to keep the technical discussions in a private area as there may be members who may wish to post pictures when discussing technical aspects they may want to share about with other members only. I would find objectionable that professionals who are not members may learn for free solutions/tips/tricks that non-professional members may have found by working themselves on their cars, but would be happy to share with disinterested members.
For instance, on many other "car forums", known professionals are required to pay "sponsoring" fees if they want to promote their activity and/or have access to all areas.
Just my tuppence worth anyway.
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On the VSCC and BDC forums, there are many professionals who give their knowledge and advice freely,
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….mmm. interesting thread.
Well, In for a penny, in for a pound. I go along with Jam2. My interest is pre-war cars in general. I have belonged to many clubs over the years (currently four). So, clearly I’m not into Cobras (sorry about that!) and withdrew from the ACOC as ACtion seemed to be full of Cobras, and pages about racing, yet so little information on, for example, ’20’s cars - just take a look at the spares available from the Club and you’ll see, for vintage Sixes, it’s down to one item. Also, check how many vintage AC owners are members and it’s extremely unlikely to exceed fifteen. This is reflected in the lack of early cars at club events.
I’m an elected member of the Institute of the Motor Industry so others consider me a ‘professional’. I find the comment from TTM odd and, contrary to his view, have many ‘amateurs’ approach me for technical advice, historic information, personal library documents, specialist tools, taking up a lot of time and wanting all for free (and often without even the courtesy of a ‘thank you’). I do not mind if it keeps historic vehicles on the road, but think TTM’s view is one-sided.
Also TTM, why should any ACOC outing be restricted to only a members’ forum. Surely the marque should be promoted, and the public be welcomed to view any gathering of AC cars? Remember the highly successful National Day at Thames Ditton a few years back?
As for other clubs that have open forums, where non-members can post, there’s the Riley Motor Club, Austin Seven friends, Aston Martin Owners Club, the Lagonda forum (do I list more?)
Finally, the vintage forum has been used by both owners and enthusiasts and has become an information and historical archive in itself. Change that and any future owner suffers.
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Well, this is all jolly depressing, isn't it? [xx(]
ACtion is of course, 'the official organ' of the ACOC, but the forum is 'useful'.
It's instant, it isn't restricted by page size (so dozens of photos can accompany a roadtrip report, for example) and it can be accessed from anywhere.
So, we want to keep all of our technical knowledge within the Club?(heaven forbid the Oiks pick up a useful hint or 2!) [|)]
If you want to share something with the poster of a particular question in the open forum. and no-one else, send them a Personal Message.
There have been a number of professionals who have offered much useful information, advice and know-how with no hint of 'peddling their wares'.
OR:
A.N. Member posts a cry for help on the 'closed' forum for how to unseize his grottle sprocket, but according to Simon B-B, no 'real' members read the forum, and 3 months later A.N has to pay mirrions to Brizzle Fixers for a job A.Non Member has been doing for years, and would have told him, with pictures, if he'd known.
Of course there should be Members Only content. There already is,(although not in the forum, it's via the Homepage) where the Model Registries, technical articles, Members' lists & Membership benefit discounts can be found (where did the regalia page go?)
Hosting photos within the forum would cost more, so why would the Club pay extra when no members use the forum anyway? [;)]
(I have hosted and posted hundreds of photos for dozens of members and non-members, and I'm happy to continue to do so for anyone who wants to paint a thousand words).
Re-jigging the existing Forum categories now would be chaos.
Example: the Cobra and 428 models shared a forum until '11, when the Thames Ditton section was born, consequently pre-2011 Cobra posts are in the 428 forum.
My entire life has had ACs running through it, so if you cut a slice through my soul, it would look a bit like this:
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/Blackpoolrock1.jpg)
BUT. I'm not a Club member. Dad is the member, and the AC owner, but he doesn't use the forum.
I'm the first Registered User on this forum (except for admin) and the most prolific poster by some margin, and I have literally 'seen it all' on here, and I firmly believe that keeping the Forum largely public is good for the individual Users, Club members and ultimately the Club itself.
We're here to celebrate the cars, the people who use, rescue, restore and enjoy AC's, share information, and maybe be entertained or amused along the way, and suggesting that non-ACOC members are unwelcome, have nothing of value to add and are here purely for their own selfish ends is offensive.
Nik Bagshaw. (Not hiding behind my username).
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Hi Nick,
Thanks for sharing your views on this interesting topic. You are definitely one of the top users of our Forum and know how it is used.
Regarding my point on "direct upload" as opposed to upload via a "host platform" I just made a little test to upload the photo below:
To upload this photo below, from when I create this post, it took 12 steps.
Prerequisite: I had previously installed an account at Photobucket. This is free of charge up to a certain capacity. After that limit, I have to pay for hosting the pics.
Of these 12 steps, once I am logged onto photobucket and I have created a subfolder to contain the photos I want to share, 6 steps are required to get the photo onto our Forum.
I am a member of Club Lotus France (www.club-lotus.fr).
We there have a Forum (members only) with direct upload of photos. Number of steps required for uploading this photo: 3
If I want to post 10 pics here now for instance of an ACOC event I visited,it takes 120 steps as opposed to 30 with direct upload.
Other downside of "external hosting": once the capacity of my account is used, I will have to either purchase additional capacity, or start removing pics from Albums, with the effect that they disappear from our Forum. There are numerous examples of such instances on various posts of our Forum.
Of course direct hosting requires more capacity to be made available by the Club (for the benefit of its members and non-members if Forum is public).
I agree with you that we should not restructure the current Forum (as I had already mentioned above). My proposal is for the addition of a public section that can be structured as necessary.
Food for thought.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w34/MkIVLux/Test%20Album/dsc00300_0_zpsrmgrfrbe.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/MkIVLux/media/Test%20Album/dsc00300_0_zpsrmgrfrbe.jpg.html)
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Nice one, Constant.
If you add a " between the = http, and another one before the last ] that whole line of text will disappear:
[URL="http;//website/album/picture.html"]
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
Nice one, Constant.
If you add a " between the = http, and another one before the last ] that whole line of text will disappear:
[URL="http;//website/album/picture.html"]
that would then add another 2 steps to the process (see above) making it 14 steps to post this photo
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My comment regarding professionals comes from my experience in another club where a few privateers, who had built significant knowledge working themselves on their own cars and who offered disinterested support to other members who were a bit less handy, found out later that some other members would use what they had learned to sell it as a service to third party owners. Now while that kind of practice has never been unheard of in the whole hobby itself, I see no reason not trying to control it within a certain extent through the forum. It remains to members’ discretion to proceed with their interest in the hobby however they feel like but I do not see why members should indirectly support possibly ill behaviours through a paid membership. To me it’s a matter of principle, regardless of the values of the cars.
As for outings, may I need to mention about some classics (not necessarily ACs) getting spotted at public events to later get stolen? The first time I heard of this I could not believe it but reading later again about it – and in the current edition of ACtion – I thought this point needs to be brought forward. I do hope that members who post pictures of their cars on the www blank their registration plates. Yes it’s a sad world we live in and the www has become a useful tool for everyone, including organized crime.
Nik, I appreciate your enthusiasm and even if I am only a fresh member I have had strong emotional link with ACs for several decades, but that should not prevent us to keep a cold-blooded approach and apply some common good sense considering the information the forum should or should not be displayed publically.
In any case there should be enough technical solutions to satisfy everyone’s needs with regards to the format of the forum, but as in the real world it should be shaped flexibly enough to satisfy the wide range of people on board, without necessarily feeling offended by the sometimes different expectations of its different members.
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I note that Simon has deleted his post, making some of my comments look like answers to unasked questions!
I don`t really see how cars spotted at events being stolen relates to photos on forums; I get "We are in Jamaica for the next 2 weeks!" on Farcebook resulting in burglary, but after-the-event show photos, which have no direct track-back to a car`s home location, hmmmm...
Hopefully we can take this forward without too much disruption to the status quo...
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
I don`t really see how cars spotted at events being stolen relates to photos on forums
They don't, but promoting a forthcoming event publically can attract unwanted attention. This is not saying we should hide in bunkers, but using a public area to promote a club event is I think not ideal.
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For the sole sake of underlying what I mentioned in my earlier message on "direct upload", I have just been looking at my account in Photobucket which I use exclusively for the ACOC Forum:
- I have 209 photos stored for a total of 0.3 GB out of 2.0 GB which are free of charge; so the approximate free capacity is for some 1,130 photos.
The next capacity level is for adding 20 GB so allowing for a total of some 12,430 photos to be hosted. Cost herefore is 29.99 €/year.
In comparison: on the Club Lotus France Forum on which I am active since 10.5 years now and I have posted todate 10.324 messages with over 30.000 photos uploaded by me(none of which has been deleted due to capacity limits); had I done so through Photobucket, I would have spent some 300 $ over that period just to keep the photos alive!
And to give you an idea of the size of that Forum (restricted to club members), todate:
- it has 1,648 users
- is structured in 9 sections containing a total of 44 subsections
- contains 298,066 messages on 16,693 subjects
- unnumerable photos (guess there must be over a million)
If anyone wants to see what a totally userfriendly Forum looks like, send me a PM and I'll arrange for a live full view.
This in no way is a critique to what we have in place at the ACOC, for which I am thankful to the volonteers who manage it, it is simply an example of how members could get en even better system.
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Well, well, questions 1 & 2 certainly prompted some comments!
What about question 3 - Keith?
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quote:
Originally posted by MkIV Lux...In comparison: on the Club Lotus France Forum on which I am active since 10.5 years now and I have posted to date 10,324 messages with over 30,000 photos...
And only 508 posts here in almost the same 10 years... you have some catching up to do! (And my missus thinks I post too much on here!!!)[;)]
Obviously a much more active forum than ours, but a well-made point, I have 1,367 photos in my Photobucket, (35% of my 'free' space) and also have a Flickr account, so I should be okay for a few more years.
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
....And only 508 posts here in almost the same 10 years... you have some catching up to do! (And my missus thinks I post too much on here!!!)[;)]
Obviously a much more active forum than ours, but a well-made point, I have 1,367 photos in my Photobucket, (35% of my 'free' space) and also have a Flickr account, so I should be okay for a few more years.
Indeed, I could have been more active here: three elements have been working against this:
- the fact that our Forum here is public hinders me to post photos and voice my opinion
- the "cumbersome" way to upload photos (I am spoiled by the CLF Forum)
- the relative inactivity on our Forum: the more active a Forum is, the more opportunities you have to respond to posts and get involved; otherwise you end up monologuing and that is no fun; this may have to do with the age distribution of the membership: in CLF I am part of the older generation, the majority of the members being in the 30-40 range, in the ACOC I am more in the lower middle of the distribution I guess. The younger generation is much more active in all things electronic communication and almost permanently "connected".
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With reference to Nik Bagshaw's comment above on 6th October that I have deleted an earlier posting, I have not. I wouldn't know how to and I don't think one can once it's done. He is now posting on the wrong thread. The posting to which he refers was on a different thread.
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quote:
Originally posted by SBB
With reference to Nik Bagshaw's comment above on 6th October that I have deleted an earlier posting, I have not. I wouldn't know how to and I don't think one can once it's done. He is now posting on the wrong thread. The posting to which he refers was on a different thread.
You can delete completely your own post; you just have to click the last of the 5 icons you see behind the timeline of your own post.
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I would not see the "lack" of activity, at least relatively to some other car forums attracting a probably "younger" and wider audience, as a negative point per se.
Not everyone from the older generation feels comfortable using the www yet, but those who do, especially on here I believe, seem to post messages to bring significant content and/or make a point. There is probably not enough cars in existence and not enough general public interest for the brand for the forum to generate a traffic that would make it a several hour daily time-eater like some others forums are, and I personally see this as a positive point.
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quote:
Originally posted by SBB
With reference to Nik Bagshaw's comment above on 6th October that I have deleted an earlier posting, I have not...He is now posting on the wrong thread. The posting to which he refers was on a different thread.
Sincere apologies, Simon; sloppy of me.
I was posting on the right thread, but referencing This Thread (http://"http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4349"), and this statement:
quote:
Originally posted by SBB: ...The Forum is much inhabited by a peripheral fringe lurking on the sidelines who do not wish to subscribe financially to the Club's welfare and the services it offers but yet they may wish to obtain information from and use the Club's resources for their benefit or exchange views for free.
There are many of this peripheral fringe who have taken the trouble to sign up to the forum specifically to impart knowledge, advice, history or otherwise be of service to Club members, which if the forum were 'Members Only' would not have done so, which would most certainly be our loss. [:(]
I know one (non-ACOC member) Forum user who is a highly-respected authority on AC who we have probably lost from the site for good since this line of thought was aired, which is a terrible shame, but I can`t honestly say I blame them. [B)]
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I'm one of those lurking in the weeds. I'm been a fan(atic) of AC cars for 60 years since I first saw a road test in Sports Car Graphic. I worked on a friend's badly wrecked BEX in the mid 1960's and in the early 1970's owned RS5024 and was a member (and didn't particularly have a welcoming experience with the US arm of the club (AND "why do you want to be a member?")). I post periodically when I think I have something of interest to contribute. I have every book on AC's I can find and have contributed to one. One of the reasons I follow the forum is in hope of sometime seeing that 5024 has re-appeared. If I were blocked from the forum I would lose the primary source of information on these terrific and interesting cars (and while I prefer the 1955-64 cars, I refer to ALL models). I would dearly miss hearing from all of you!
John
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Dear all,
a friend of mine gave attention to me about the ongoing discussion.
Taking notice of this discussion I would like to express my personal opinion:
As owner of two MkIV (AKL 1411, AK 1073) I am happy to participate in the open forum.
Yes, I have been ACOC-member also for a while. However difficulties in the payment for membership renewal and difficulties in having access to the ACOC members area (password) frustrated me and finally I ended up automatically as a non-ACOC-member.
For me it is o.k. so far as the forum for me is the most important feature.
Sitting on the continent – lack of time and because of distance to UK - in any case I can not participate in most of (social) ACOC events which – by nature – are focused to the UK.
So what really than is the advantage? Yes, access to the registry is a real value, the Action-publication is nice, but what else is left? For me personally little.
I am also participant in other open forums as well (Cobra-Germany and Sailing)
Looking to the costs of a non-commercial forum in general with such a traffic on a lower level, we are taking about cost of 50 – max. 300 pound a year to operate a forum …………not too much and shouldn’t be a real issue.
The sailing forum is established by a few enthusiasts and they do not ask for any financing, the German Cobra forum is also free of charge, however you can provide donations (4 to 40 pounds a year) on a volunteer basis – and from time to time I do so.
Out of my view forum-financing is not a criteria to create a closed shop or not.
However, if you create a closed forum what will be the effect?
You loose much more traffic – which currently isn’t high anyway.
You loose tipps, tricks, generell interesting informations like supply sources for sought parts and market informations from a wider community of experienced AC owners/enthusiasts which are – for what reason ever – non ACOC members.
Out of my view a closed Forum for ACOC-members only will be simply much poorer than an open (minded) forum.
Last not least:
You loose a marketing instrument to attract AC-enthusiasts to enter in an ACOC membership.
Just my 5 ct.
Martin
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Although not being a member of the Club not having a 428, how I wish it wasn't 3 inches long, I really appreciate it also being open to non-members offering the opportunity to showcase Derek Hurlock's lovely creation in perpetuity worldwide, otherwise it would have sadly soon been forgotten anywhere else.
Once again my grateful thanks to everyone in the Club….
Paul [:)]
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I am a member of the ACOC and fully support the request to keep the Forum open. I wouldn't want prospective members to think the ACOC was elitist by not allowing forum participation unless you were a member.
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A reply to all those who hope that the forum remains open to non-members. I'm glad you all appreciate it so much, maybe your appreciation might show itself by taking out membership of the ACOC for one year as a thank you to all those fully paid-up members who fund the forum that you appreciate so much? or am I, once again expecting too much from those that appreciate it?? It wouldn't be there if not for members -think about it - if you want a service, it has to be paid for.
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Glenn,
I am one of these guys you address: non-member, user of this forum and happy if it will be an open forum in the future. Will I become a member if this forum would be non-public? No, I wouldn't. There is nearly no benefit for me to become a member. Same reasons as Hobo wrote already. If you live outside of UK you do not participate in the social events.
I think the arguments for making this forum non-public focus a little to too much the costs of providing it. There are some people (including me) who spent a lot of time to keep this forum alive with their input. This takes a lot of time. Without this input the forum would not only non-public, it would be dead. If you want to make this forum non-public please make a simple check:
One the top of this page you can find a button called "Members". Just click it. You will see all members of this forum (these are not related to the ACOC members). They are sorted by the number of the posts in descending order). Our hero is Nik (more than 2000 posts) followed by Keith (more than 1200 posts). This list is 44 pages long. If you go on page 3 you find the members with less than 100 posts. I wouldn't call these people the "drivers" of this forum. They don't keep this forum alive. So check the first three pages who of these members are also ACOC members.
I don't know the answer but I am sure that you will get a feeling about the consequences making this forum non-public. Maybe it will work out, I hope not.
Kind regards,
Peter
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I’m personally not against in a financial support to the ACOC-Forum in what form ever (temporary membership, sponsoring etc.) if the forum costs (as estimated above) is THE issue.....which I do not believe As mentioned I do sponsoring for our German forum.
The two Jeep-forum, sailing forum, clubcobra etc. even do not ask for sponsorship, same with the forums mentioned below.
The world is big enough, if you exclude AC enthusiasts they have a free choice and I believe the traffic on the ACOC-Forum will decrease significant and without them the ACOC-Forum would be less attractive.
(In the past I have seen a Cobra-forum simple dying as the flow went to a “competitor” when the question of a “members-only” forum occurs)
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/shelby-american-inc/
http://www.the289register.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=4
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/ac-mkiv/
http://www.cobra-forum.de/forum.php
Me and my AKL 1411:
http://www.cobra-forum.de/showthread.php?11602-Back-on-the-road-))&p=124011#post124011
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quote:
Originally posted by dkp_cobra
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One the top of this page you can find a button called "Members". Just click it. You will see all members of this forum (these are not related to the ACOC members). They are sorted by the number of the posts in descending order). Our hero is Nik (more than 2000 posts) followed by Keith (more than 1200 posts). This list is 44 pages long. If you go on page 3 you find the members with less than 100 posts. I wouldn't call these people the "drivers" of this forum. They don't keep this forum alive. So check the first three pages who of these members are also ACOC members.
..... Peter
interesting point, Peter,
some more statistics:
todate, the Forum has 1.091 members having posted 26.748 messages
100+ messages: 6% of members account for 77% of traffic
10-99 messages: 14% of members account for 18% of traffic
1-9 messages: 43% of members account for 5% of traffic
0 messages: 38% of members are silent
I have not been able yet to make a correlation between Forum members' activity and ACOC membership... but will have a look .....
.... well a quick check reveals that: of the 62 Forum members having posted 100+ messages, 28 can be identified in the list of ACOC members (there may be just a bit more as it is some Forum members do not disclose their name), so barely half of the top players, but they account only for 29% of the total traffic respectively 38% of traffic by the top players.
This makes me come to the conclusion that loosing the non-ACOC members' traffic in case the Forum would be restricted to ACOC members would have a serious effect on traffic, unless we could convince them to subscribe to club membership [:)] [B)]
This may be less difficult to achieve than getting our Club Members to generate more posts and offset the losses ...
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Never been called a hero before. [:I]
I have, however, been able to help a good number of members with various 'challenges' which I could not have done were this a members` only forum, and hope to continue to do so.
In the big scheme of things, I don`t think the cost of the forum is a factor for a Club with the resources of the ACOC, but I do feel that some of the 'old guard' who do not, would not, and will never frequent the forum resent the cost of it, whether for members or non-members alike!
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
...but I do feel that some of the 'old guard' who do not, would not, and will never frequent the forum resent the cost of it, whether for members or non-members alike!
Nik, we hence have not seen and will not see their opinion expressed here! [;)] Your feeling cannot be based on content of this topic started on 4 October.
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I wonder how many present Members do not own an AC? Having sold my Ace I am sure I must be in the minority....
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quote:
Originally posted by MkIV Lux...[;)] Your feeling cannot be based on content of this topic started on 4 October.
Indeed. That`s from actually speaking to a couple of members at ACOC events!
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My original post is set out below- it read...
3 questions
1/ Is it possible to make posting photos on our wonderful forum as easy as it is to attach a photo to an email? if not, why not?
2/Is the ACOC forum open to non-members, if so, why? After all, it is the AC owner's club forum.
3/ Why is the club in the process of wasting money on producing a Brexit register? All the registers are on the club website. Seems to be a complete waste of the club's money and, for those that give there time so willingly,a waste of it!
So far we have had masses of comment on member v non-member access to the club's forum (Q2). There has been masses of opinion, but no reason why the club's forum is open to non-member - I am still waiting for an answer!
Everyone seems to think that posting photos on the forum could be easier (Q1), although those familiar with the process seem happy with things the way they are.
As for why this so called bound 'Brexit Register' is in the pipe-line (Q3)????? nothing, not even from Keith.
I would like it noted that I asked Q1 & Q2 because I wished to know the answers (I have been educated by a fact that has transpired during this post - that most forums are open to non-members of the club running the forum). No opinion was included, alltough I can see how some assumed I was against non-member access. If these 2 questions are read without any 'baggage' you will see that they are only asking. Q3 is a little more opinionated, I'll grant you.
I think my next move is an open letter to ACtion
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Hello,
Here is a suggestion on how a revamped homepage could look like.
Please note the Public area vs the different members areas, the latters being accessible to ACOC members only. (Do not click on the links, I just did this dummy homepage as a sample) :
http://mapage.noos.fr/tjmm/ACOC/Homepage_TEST.htm
As for the public vs private acces debate, there are several ways to skin a cat.
Firstly it could be made that none of the forum could be made visible to people who are not already logged in.
Secondly, depending of forum user credentials (ACOC member, non-ACOC member, Partner/Sponsor, etc) different types of access can probably be implemented.
Again, food for thought.
quote:
Originally posted by dkp_cobraI am one of these guys you address: non-member, user of this forum and happy if it will be an open forum in the future. Will I become a member if this forum would be non-public? No, I wouldn't. There is nearly no benefit for me to become a member. Same reasons as Hobo wrote already. If you live outside of UK you do not participate in the social events.
I am also outside of the UK and would think that supporting the Club as a member is a first condition to be able to use any of the tools or facilities it provides. If I cannot participate to club events as much as I would like, then tough luck. FYI there are club representatives pretty much everywhere in Europe, it's up to local sections to organize social events, and a good reason I think for owners genuinely interested in getting the ball rolling to become full ACOC members.
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I've been watching this discussion for a while and answers are:
(1) I suspect that directly attaching photos isn't possible with this software - I know we discussed it when the site was set up but I can't remember the answer. I've asked our site provider and am awaiting a reply. At some stage we will probably have to move on to more modern Forum software and that would be a logical time to make the change. I'll see what racecar say.
(2) A huge amount of historical and technical info has come to the club via the Forum which would never have surfaced had it only been open to ACOC members. At its best (which is 99% of the time ) it also provides a very positive shop window for the club. There is no members-only forum because I (and the Council - we have discussed it in the past) don't believe there is a need and anyway, running this website as it is takes up plenty enough of my time and I'm not prepared to increase my workload. I've been doing it for ten years so if any ACOC member wants to take over as webmaster, please let me know. I'm quite happy to stand aside.
(3) I think there are about 100 - 120 regular or semi-regular Forum users and watchers. There are ACOC members who do not have a computer, let alone look at the website. ACtion and hard copy including the new register publication will therefore remain the principal means of communication to the other 500 - 600 club members.
Bryan
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Glenn,
Why not come along to the next council meeting, the 3 points you raise are all valid and have been discussed by the club council in detail and I'm sure will be again.
My own opinions regarding "The Brexit Register" are that as well as providing an important hard copy snap shot of where our cars are at a given point in history the register is something tangible to give to our members, including those with no desire to view the registers online. The online registers will also update periodically losing any historical relevance to members of course.
Maybe the title of the register is a bit emotive and could have simply been the 2016 register but then again it's all about the history.
One more thing, the knowledge and information that comes to the club through non-members using the forum is invaluable so please keep it coming.
David
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David, at last a reply to an actual question - many thanks.
My view on the proposed register must be apparent from my post, however, if I had one of these 'Brexit registers' waved in front of my face - I'd take it, as it is, as you say, club history.
But it is out of date the moment someone included changed car/address/email/phone No/aftershave.
Maybe we should have had our own referendum - 'Do we, as a club, want a hard copy 2016 register' We could have had an on-line vote to show what the members rea........ Oh, I forgot no member can use the internet, can they, silly me.
Maybe I'm up against 'Living in the past' syndrome, a lot of members like living in the past, but with one exception - I bet they know the bang-up-to-date worth of the there precious car/s!!!!
As for the reluctance to step into the new age in which we live - I have 2 comments
1/ If learning how to use a modern PC solved all your financial problem - there would be no pc-illiterate people.
2/ What's wrong with the good-old-days - I'll tell you - cholera, TB, Oswald Mosely,The 3-day week/ Jimmy Saville (he does such good work for charity...)/ Loon pants.......
Look at the wonderful state of our motorcycle industry - silly little Japanese with there silly rice burners.........
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quote:
Originally posted by administrator
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(1) I suspect that directly attaching photos isn't possible with this software - I know we discussed it when the site was set up but I can't remember the answer. I've asked our site provider and am awaiting a reply. At some stage we will probably have to move on to more modern Forum software and that would be a logical time to make the change. I'll see what racecar say.
......Bryan
Bryan, thanks for your feedback on this element;
It is definitely a matter of software, but more important: it is a matter of hosting capacity:
- when we load photos directly, a copy of the photo is kept "on-site"; either directly in the text of the post, or by hidden mecanism of a link to a storage directly and solidly linked to the Forum; photos stay "active" as much as the post; this implies a huge amount of hosting and storage capacity linked directly to our Forun;
- when we use "remote loading" through services like Photobucket, we create a copy of our photo off-site and create a web-link to this copy which we then stick into the post on the Forum; here storage capacity requirements are with the Photobucket's of this world (and hence with the user of our Forum); not with the Forum itself; as mentioned before, one of the downsides of "remote loading" is that you have to manage the remote storage in a way to ensure that the link that was created and glued into the Forum's post, remains active: i.e. you cannot delete a photo from the Photobucket storage, you cannot move a photo to another "folder" within Photobucket; otherwise in your post on the Forum the link is still being shown, but it no longer works, as the link was a copy of the "address" where the photo was located when you created the link.
Sounds a bit complicated but is trivial.
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to give you an example on my latter statement regarding the link to a remote hosting facility, take at look here:
http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=306
the photos of this post have disappeared;
reason is that whereas I am still unsing Photobucket today, at some point in time I had rearranged subfolders of the storage, so these photos were moved like from first floor in room A to second floor room B; hence the link that I had created while they were on first floor in room A now does not find them anymore! The link is a historic copy of an address; it does not update when the address moves;
There are numerous examples like this in our Forum; text remains, but the documenting photos are no longer existent for the reader.
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A little nostalgic side-note: I realize that in that Topic #306 the late John Owen, chief technical officer at AC while they were at Malta, had answered to my query. Not sure if he was a member of the ACOC at the time. If he wasn't, this would be a good example of Bryan's second statement above!
Meanwhile, as most of you know, helpful John has disappeard forever, and with him a valuable source of information.
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Some more statistics: on the subject of "public" vs "members only" Forum as discussed in this Topic.
Reading through all posts so far in this Topic and categorizing my interpreting of what they were expressing, the following appears:
- 14 Forum users have expressed an opinion; given that we have 1091 Forum members, and even only considering the 684 members having posted on the Forum, I doubt that the 14 (= only 2% of the active population) are a statistically meaningful sample;
- 2 are in favour of a mixed Forum: part public, part members only
- 1 is in favour of a members only Forum
- 11 are in favour of an open Forum
definitely not conclusive enough to modify anything on this subject
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If it's any help I've never once had a problem in all this time using Activeboard which hosts the AC 428 Register and Archive....
http://www.activeboard.com/
Just my pennorth...[:)]
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quote:
Originally posted by MkIV Luxdefinitely not conclusive enough to modify anything on this subject
Couldn't we equally say it is not conclusive enough not to modifty anything on the subject? Not sure why changing a few bits would matter to the majority who does not seem to care anyway but may matter to a minority willing to be more active if a few modifications were made?
Like with many other public forums, the reason why the majority of forum users may not "care" is because they most likely consist of profiles that are barely used or even not used at all. Keeping such profiles is irrelevant as we do not know what the actual majority consists in, and is a flaw of keeping a forum completely public. User profiles that have not been active (at least one connection) for say 6 months should be erased, for example.
Keeping all those profiles is a bit like getting hundreds of people confirming an invitation to a social event while only a few folks actually turn up, yet all those others who had confirmed they'd come just lurk from afar, and the forum being publically readable without any kind of registration obligation makes this is even worse.
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Well TTM, in my quick conclusion on "non-conclusiveness" I have only considered active Forum members (i.e. those with at least 1 post, irrespective of time-line).
What we ignore is how many of the "inactive" have been totally inactive over say the last 12 months, and how many use the forum as "viewers only". Maybe the Administrator has such info readily available.
Our particular topic here (#4432) todate has had 50 replies by 16 different users; however it was read a total of 1495 times. Of course there are a number of people reading (=opening) the topic more than once (even more than 5 times), but in the 1495 there must be quite a number of silent viewers.
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quote:
Originally posted by TTM...Not sure why changing a few bits would matter to the majority who does not seem to care anyway but may matter to a minority willing to be more active if a few modifications were made?
Minor tweeks would balls up the entire forum for everyone, as I highlighted previously with the Cobra/428 split.
Bryan does a fabulous job of keeping this place on an even keel, bearing in mind he has a dayjob so can`t be expected to devote more than 'spare' time to looking after us!
If, one day, it is decided to migrate to a new forum engine, that might be the time to consider reformatting, but for now, 'if it ain`t broke, don`t BREAK it!
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How can you feel concerned with breaking something that has never really worked from the start? [:o)]
Joking aside, what kind of issues did the Cobra/428 split raise?
I was a forum admin for about 10 years and I would agree that it represents a lot of spare time... when you get between about 100 and 300 posts per day, which is not really the case on here. Perhaps I am giving here another one-sided view, so please bear with me.
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
Bryan does a fabulous job of keeping this place on an even keel, bearing in mind he has a dayjob so can`t be expected to devote more than 'spare' time to looking after us!
...
[:)][:)] this is absolutely true and I can only support this statement [:)]
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68...Re-jigging the existing Forum categories now would be chaos.
Example: the Cobra and 428 models shared a forum until '11, when the Thames Ditton section was born, consequently pre-2011 Cobra posts are in the 428 forum...
If you look from HERE (http://"http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=6&sortfield=lastpost&sortorder=desc&whichpage=7") Backwards, you will find Cobra & 428 threads, but forwards, it`s only 428.
Add to the existing forum, maybe, but don`t alter the existing categories please.
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I went through the same issue with the forum I used to administer, and I spent 4 whole days re classifying the existing forum into ... 6 different sub forums.
As as I have expressed in this very topic specific requests (privacy + two separate public/private sections) I am happy to volunteer if any task is required to do any reshaping work, as fastidious as it may get.
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I find posting photographs very difficult and migrate to the Team AC Facebook page on a daily basis where there is always a new AC related topic or gallery every few days. Steve Gray seems to dig up some amazing stuff from his archive and ex factory employees network.
Facebook does seem to be a much easier way of doing things and gives wider exposure.
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Unfortunately, Facebook is blocked from my work server, so I can't view it (or YouTube, or Instagram... But I can Tweet!) during my teabreaks, which is the only time I use my works computer for looking at forums, eBay...etc! [;)]
But yes, Steve keeps finding fab stuff.
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Apparently the Team AC Facebook page has over 2000 followers from all over the world - amazing when you think about it and probably the easiest way to achieve coverage and publicity.
Just type Team AC Facebook and you are there., for those that have never visited the site.
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What is Facebook?
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I have just had a quick skip through this thread, and it strikes me that as with any subject there are an awful lot of talkers with opinions, and precious few do-ers who actually get the job done. The ACOC Council of Management meets on the last Thursday of every month at the King's Head, Westmoreland St. W1G 8PJ from 19.00 onwards. We always appreciate members and AC enthusiasts to join in. After the usual Council Business, there is time to chat and suggest new ideas. I must say, we have discussed the open access to the ACOC Forum ad-nauseam, and the overwhelming majority of do-ers have voted to keep it open. Through this policy we have made contact with non members all over the world who have helped identify and find missing cars, and source components, photos and history which otherwise would remain lost. Whilst I am no Spring Chicken, I do not subscribe to the restrictive practices of pre-Thatcher Britain, where knowledge was power and therefore kept secret from outsiders. ACs are my passion, and I am happy to share all of my enthusiasm with any like minded soul. My real name is available to registered Forum contributors and I do not hide behind layers of security. Anyone can send me a message via the Forum, and my personal email address is available in the Members' Area of the ACOC Website. Nik, it was good to see you at the NEC. I'm with you and believe openness is the way forward.
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This may be a bit off message, but elsewhere we have been discussing the ACOC Sprint down at Goodwood. It is the last competitive sporting event which is organised by the Club. Over the years, the attendance by ACOC members driving AC cars has dwindled down to just 8 entries this year, down from a peak of 33 in 1990! I admit this year was a particularly poor turnout from ACOC members in ACs, as there were 18 or so last year, but the trend is ever downwards. Entries are also open to ACOC members in non-ACs (17 this year) and non ACOC members in non ACs (31 this year). By inviting outsiders we can keep the event going, in the hope that sons and daughters of members, and new owners of these beautiful cars will come out to play in the future. We are incredibly lucky to have a Saturday slot at Goodwood, and if we failed to renew our application, we would never have another Sprint at Goodwood as there is a queue waiting for anyone to drop out. We would then be a Club representing some of the most charismatic sports and racing cars in the world, without an event in which they can compete. That would be a sad day, and so we try various ways to encourage entrants in their ACs. Whether it be the Forum, the Sprint, the International Meeting, the National Day or the Dinner Dance, we need members to join in and enjoy making new friends.
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It does indeed seem a great shame that the Sprint is a shadow of its former self in terms of AC entries. It used to be a fantastic display of a great number of AC cars at full chat going back over 20 years now.
I think part of the problem is that the Sprint rules and regulations/equipment/helmet and overalls etc are far more stringent these days and you really need to be a committed sprinter with several events booked for the year to make it all worthwhile. Added to this, there is also the fact that car track days are now far more prevalent. You get at least 40 laps of the circuit in as opposed to only 3 or 4 at a sprint. Contrast the event with the mid-week Brooklands Trust track day that was held at Goodwood only days before which was over subscribed. If times have changed then you have to move on.
Perhaps there are two ways forward? Either make it a track day and see how many members fancy enjoying the circuit at their own pace for pure fun - different fast/slow groups as usual. Or, make it a 'must do' event in the calender, perhaps run along Intermarque Championship lines to make it a real spectacle - invited clubs only - AC/Aston Martin/Ferrari/Jaguar/Porsche. Now that would be really interesting and there are enough competition enthusiasts in those clubs to take up the allotted places. Goodwood is a definite draw and many would fancy a post- Revival thrash no doubt.
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This merits a new thread, as I feel it may swamp this one.
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What about some response to Q3?
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I have been watching this thread and really I wonder what the hell are you moaning about. I see no problem with it having public access, some may join at some time. Some do not own AC but have advice and fixes that may be relevant to older cars. There is not traffic on here as it is, it would be worse if closed to members only.
As for posting photos what is wrong with a link to photobucket etc, posting pics on the forum only slows the thing down anyway.
And as for the Brexit register its a name only whats the problem. Some have nothing better to do.
Go and get in your AC, drive it, use it, give any advice you have gained from using it to others.
There are more worrying things wrong with the club like why are we hosting the international surely it should be abroad, we have the national here (when someone decides when/where it is going to be). Why do we have a rehash of the Action from throughout the year in January?
Ho hum now I going to fiddle with the ol girl.
see ya. G
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Thank you Gary. I think you have put the world to rights and deserve time to go fiddle! For Glenn I would say that the production of a set of bound registers was thoroughly discussed by the ACOC Council of Management, and the unanimous decision was made to go ahead. The Club will publish a set of up-to-date bound registers, and a Blue Book Membership List. Whether members are IT literate or not, both documents afford immediate reference sources which are much appreciated by most members judging by the well thumbed examples to be seen. Unlike the Database, lapsed members can be found in the Blue Book, and notes written in the margin of the registers. I believe that fully answers question 3. No 2 has already been discussed and decided, which only leaves No 1 which is Work In Progress.