AC Owners Club Forum

AC Owners Club Forum => Cobra (Thames Ditton) Forum => Topic started by: rstainer on November 07, 2015, 12:35:01

Title: CS2030
Post by: rstainer on November 07, 2015, 12:35:01
It has now been established that 2030 has continuous history as a complete vehicle. The updated register reads:
   
   AC Cars demonstration car. 4.2 Ltr engine. Instructions issued 12-9-62
   RHD. Listed on Shelby American ledger as ""AC test car"".  Completed at Thames Ditton and not sent to the USA. Believed to have been the prototype rack & pinion car. Registered 1 Nov 62 and used by AC as factory demonstrator. Sold 18 Nov 63.
   
   Severely damaged, believed to be front end collision followed by fire; log book stamped ‘insurance total loss payment’ (68/9). Salvageable components kept together, front end of chassis and front A frame replaced and new body made, with hood scoop, side vents and larger wheel arches. Purchased dismantled by Ronald Horsey (81).  Rebuilt with the new body, replacement 6 bolt 289 engine, non-standard dashboard, incorrect instruments, Ace-style seats, incorrect filler cap & 6” wheels. Rebuild completed in 84.
   
   [Shelby American/AC (63), D Cromby (68), Rupert Nuttall (71), John Southon (81)]
   "
Title: CS2030
Post by: aaron on November 17, 2015, 22:49:42
It will beinteresting to see what the car sells for at Auction, any idea who made the new body for the car ?
Title: CS2030
Post by: rstainer on November 18, 2015, 13:21:30
Aaron,
   
   If it is bought by someone who wants a Goodwood 'Modsports' racer, who knows. Hopefully, it will go to a collector who will restore it to original condition: 5 1/2" wire wheels, narrow arches, no side vents, 260 five-bolt engine etc. In its original form it was one of the most elegant Cobras of all time.
   (http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh599/rstainer/image002_zps0mg5cqco.jpg)
   
   Body? Impossible to tell - no visible clues whatsoever.
   
   RS
Title: CS2030
Post by: tim isles on November 19, 2015, 19:43:42
Robin,
   I can only agree, very elegant.
   I wonder what Stirling Moss thought of the car? I don't recall him ever commenting in the motoring press?
   From your description it sounds as though the car is now perhaps more 'spirit' than body? Whatever, it is good, and I think important, that CS 2030 lives on.
   Let us hope a new owner replaces the body, corrects the interior, fits the correct wheels and so on.
Title: CS2030
Post by: rstainer on November 20, 2015, 16:33:37
Now fully described in Bonhams catalogue: https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22729/lot/2/
   
   RS
Title: CS2030
Post by: MkIV Lux on November 20, 2015, 17:08:10
what I do not undestand in this description is the two advertisement pictures of 510GBL, showing a car with quite different body features, particularly fenders, the first ad's capture even talking about a Zephir engined Ace .... [V][?]
Title: CS2030
Post by: rstainer on November 20, 2015, 19:22:41
Constant,
   
   The first advert is for several cars, including the Cobra and an Ace 2.6. The advert transposed their descriptions, thus the Cobra being cheaper and having Zephyr engine!
   
   I don't understand the second point; it's the same car.
   
   RS
Title: CS2030
Post by: rstainer on November 20, 2015, 19:29:02
PS: meaning all the 60s pictures are of 2030.
   
   RS
Title: CS2030
Post by: MkIV Lux on November 20, 2015, 23:35:16
quote:
Originally posted by rstainer
   
...
   
   I don't understand the second point; it's the same car.
   
   RS
   

   must be the poor quality of the advert pics that misled me [:I]
Title: CS2030
Post by: rsk289 on November 26, 2015, 11:25:34
Wow.  I fear for this car, it looks like a prime candidate for the 'modsports' brigade as noted above.  It will take a lot of time and money, and the sourcing of a lot of tricky parts, to get this car back to how it was in '62.
Title: CS2030
Post by: rstainer on December 06, 2015, 19:59:24
The car is now in the hands of a sympathetic Ace owner who plans to restore it to original condition.
   
   RS
Title: CS2030
Post by: nikbj68 on December 06, 2015, 23:48:55
Excellent news!
Title: CS2030
Post by: TLegate on December 07, 2015, 09:46:02
And quite a large project! But good to know it's been rescued.
Title: CS2030
Post by: SJ351 on December 09, 2015, 19:57:43
I was looking at over 50 photographs of this car from all angles at AC Heritage a couple of days ago - inside, outside and underneath, both past and very recent. It is nice to know that it will be reconstructed in its proper guise.
   
   Preserving history is important and an antidote to the ever prevalent Modsports cars (which I also love). Hats off to Robin for taking on the auctioneers again.
Title: CS2030
Post by: aaron on December 17, 2015, 22:57:56
Thats good news that the car is being restored, the owner could use the current body for a 2030 replica hot rod for the race track [:)]
Title: CS2030
Post by: minimans on December 21, 2015, 18:15:32
Preserving history is important and an antidote to the ever prevalent Modsports cars
   
   But what history are you preserving? The history of the car is that from creation to present surly? to take it back to a point in its history is to destroy the very history of the car? It's a very personal thing I know but as a professional car restorer it becomes a dilemma when advising customers of a course of action......Paul
Title: CS2030
Post by: rstainer on December 22, 2015, 11:48:19
Paul,
   
   It all depends on what you mean by preserving history.
   
   ‘Preserving history’ can be read in a variety of ways:
  • Not do anything to the car
  • Turn it into a runner
  • Make good mechanical wear
  • Etc etc

    •    The wording I prefer (five posts above) is ‘restore it to original condition’, meaning to restore it to its approximate 60s technical specification.
       
       As registrar, all I do is record the facts; from a purely personal point of view, I wouldn’t advise preserving the history of bodge work but à chacun son goût.
       
       RS
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: minimans on December 23, 2015, 01:02:26
    I guess that was my point ineffectively put by me! to preserve history is to basically leave it alone except to conserve it, to restore it is to put it back to a certain condition at a set point in its "history"
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: nikbj68 on December 23, 2015, 08:09:06
    I have to say that I`m glad 39PH was never returned to 'Le Mans' Spec, as although finishing 7th in the 1963 event was a taste of things to come, in Willment trim, and in the hands of Jack Sears is where it`s greatest glories came!
       On the other hand, Pete Brock would rather see the Daytona 2287 restored to 'Shelby' spec, as the car`s patina post-dates the best times of it`s life...Horses for courses.
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: swiftruss on January 28, 2016, 18:36:13
    I would like to say an enormous thank you to everyone in the club who has given me expert guidance and invaluable information and support  before and since the purchase of CS2030.
       
       I will be returning the car to as original specification as possible. I have been amazed by the number of pictures received from club members of the car while in the possession of AC Cars. They will be a massive help during the course of the restoration.
       
       I look forward to doing justice to this very special car and meeting the people who have helped me so much and haven't already met in the near future.
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: nikbj68 on January 28, 2016, 19:23:02
    Welcome to the forum, and adding to the family`s Ace ownership!
       
       (http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww102/surfblue63/Croft%20Nostalgia%202013/IMG_8789.jpg) (http://"http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/278288-from-russ-swift-for-montegos-30th-drive-it-day/")
       
       (http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww102/surfblue63/Raby%20Castle%202013/IMG_9575.jpg) (http://"http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/278288-from-russ-swift-for-montegos-30th-drive-it-day/")*
       
       Congratulations on your new project, and it`s heartwarming to see your plans for 2030...and I assume all 4 wheels will stay on the ground most of the time?!
       Cheers, Nik.
       
       
       *(Photos from THE MINI FORUM (http://"http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/278288-from-russ-swift-for-montegos-30th-drive-it-day/"), please view the other great photos there!)
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: nikbj68 on January 30, 2016, 13:28:21
    I`ve had a few photos through from Russ, starting with this one from Rinsey Mills` book "Essential AC Cobra":
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/motor%20show_zpsvwctuduv.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/motor%20show_zpsvwctuduv.jpg.html")
       
       This Factory shot shows how the Cockpit should look, and hopefully will do again soon:
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/CS%202030%201962-63%200004_zpszlp8rzmk.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/CS%202030%201962-63%200004_zpszlp8rzmk.jpg.html")
       
       And these publicity shots showing the early overriders dominating the rear view!:
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/_57_zpszadyapsb.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/_57_zpszadyapsb.jpg.html")
       
       What is the knob just behind the gearlever? Is that a "Select-a-ride" suspension control? Nice option!
       
       More to follow...watch this space!
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: nikbj68 on January 30, 2016, 15:31:45
    Emailed conversation courtesy of Russ & Barrie...can anyone else help with required items?
       
       Dear Barrie,
       I have recently purchased CS2030 which needs some loving care, it was involved in an accident and fire in the 60’s and poorly repaired, I hope to rectify this.
        Among other things, I need most of the parts for the interior including all the gauges, switches, seats, door catches, etc.
       I look forward to hearing from you.
        Best regards,
        Russ.
       ------------------------
       Russ,
       How nice to hear from you - I have been toying with the idea of making contact,  as I thought '33 might be a help with '30 and you have such an important and historic Cobra there.
       I think you will find the parts you list:
       Gauges - Smiths gauges still built by Speedograph/Caerbont (http://"http://www.caigauge.com/page38.html") with correct open chaplet faces.
       The ammeter should be the Lucas 30 amp job which does not match the other dials, easy to find as they were fitted to everything.
       The Smiths clock is an older pattern than the one Caerbont are doing.
       Switches - Lucas tumbler switches etc. Holden Vintage and Classic or Autosparks.
       Did '30 have the Volkswagen trafficator switch as was used on the production rack and pinion cars? Likewise was it the first use of the later dished alloy steering wheel?
       Silent Travel Wilmot Breeden locks - best source for correct replicas Paul Beck Vintage Supplies.
       David Sanderson has more detailed knowledge of the Ace and Cobra than anyone else and huge experience in building parts and rebuilding cars.
       Please keep in touch and feel free to ask about the inevitable restoration headaches.
       Barrie
       ----------------------------
       
       Dear Barrie,
        Thank you for your reply and thank you for your advice, it is very much appreciated.
       
       I have a good picture of my cars original dashboard, [see above post, Nik] The dials currently available are close but are all slightly different i.e. Made in UK as opposed to made in England and different increments on the Oil temp and water temp gauges. I would like to get them as close as possible, I believe you can have custom faces produced. I may enquire about this if I can’t find originals.
       ‘30’ did have the VW traficator and dished steering wheel (as can be seen on the picture) it also has a Rover 2000 type dipswitch which I am keen to source, there seem to be a few variations of this. I think the correct one for my car is just a light and dipswitch, some appear to include a horn. Do you have a good picture of the correct one for my car or better still a part number
       
       David Sanderson spent an afternoon looking at the car.
       
       I am happy to run the car as it is, but don’t want it off the road for more than a winter for restoration, I want the satisfaction of doing as much myself as possible.
       
       I would like to source a 260 motor and a Frogeye dynamo.
       Other parts I am on the look-out for are:-, header tank, radiator grill, hood frame, hood, side screens, dashboard, grab handle, glovebox lock, bonnet locks, and boot stay. I would imagine I can source reproductions of these or have them made but would like to use original parts where possible. If you have any of these or know the whereabouts of any I would like to hear from you.
       I am trying to source the title of a book my car appears in, do you recognise it? [Above post, Identified by me as Rinsey Mills` "Essential AC Cobra". Nik]
       Doctored pictures of my car were used for the 289 sales brochure (see above), do you know anyone who may have a spare I can purchase, there is one currently on EBay for £83 but looking back at completed listings others have sold in the past for half that price.
       
       Best regards,
        Russ.
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: nikbj68 on January 30, 2016, 17:09:36
    A few more period photos, and a couple from Russ of how the Cobra looks today:
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/2030%20scan_zpst7yj3f4r.jpeg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/2030%20scan_zpst7yj3f4r.jpeg.html")
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/2030%20-%2047%20-%20period%20photo_zpsdz9nrpgz.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/2030%20-%2047%20-%20period%20photo_zpsdz9nrpgz.jpg.html")
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/2030%20-%2046%20-%20period%20photo_zpspvuovpms.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/2030%20-%2046%20-%20period%20photo_zpspvuovpms.jpg.html")
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/IMG_0654_zpsxxsjfwxb.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/IMG_0654_zpsxxsjfwxb.jpg.html")
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/IMG_0763_zpsd8p17ngg.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/IMG_0763_zpsd8p17ngg.jpg.html")
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: nikbj68 on January 30, 2016, 19:30:37
    Russ also pointed me to mention of his Cobra back in 2012:
       
    quote:
    Originally posted by B.P.Bird, in the MKI COX AND COB (http://"http://acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2468") Thread.
       
    ...It has always intrigued me exactly how CS2030 fitted in to this [Bishop Cam to Rack & Pinion] sequence. The time scale fits with the need for a test vehicle for the second Cobra chassis configuration. It would be unheard of for Thames Ditton to put such a radical alteration in to production with no testing and such testing would take a little while would it not? Once completed and accepted then the new chassis could be productionised - new jigs produced, pattern work completed and foundry work set in hand. In those days A.C. could work at amazing speed, free from the parasitic drag of modern institutions like our beloved HSE or VOSA, but not so fast that this kind of change to an existing production line could happen without a development period.
       I remember being told by Jock Wright and Fred Larimore, in period, that 2030 was a development car. I suppose that Thames Ditton would hardly be able to justify a 'demonstrator' to Shelby or Ford given that no early Cobras were sold in the home market. So if either of them picked up the bill for 2030 maybe this was the real reason? I have never looked 2030 over and so my post might well be be misleading, but I wonder if in fact 2030 was the 'mule' for the second Cobra chassis design ?
       

       
       
    quote:
    Originally posted by rstainer
       
    Barrie makes some very interesting points and the central proposition, a design in two halves, is correct in both senses: two halves (back, then front), and a proper design, test, production set-up etc for each half. Rinsey Mills’ ‘AC Cobra’ gives a useful account of the front-end changes on pages 40 & 41.
       
       The 2030 suggestion is very interesting, but only inspection would answer it definitively; unfortunately the car was last heard of in a dismantled state thirty years ago and I suspect it may have been destroyed. However the historical facts and timing tie in with Barrie’s suggestion:
       
  • The AC Factory Ledger is noted ‘Instructions issued 12 Sept 62’, the car was finished towards the end of October and registered in Nov 62. I wonder what the instructions were?

    •    
  • The Shelby American ledger lists it as ‘AC Test Car’

    •    
  • Per my records the car was paid for by Shelby but remained in AC’s hands for a year until sold to a Mr Dent on 18 Nov 63.

    •    
       As Barrie writes, although listed in the Factory Ledger as a ‘Demonstration Car’, AC had no reason to demonstrate anything. Finally, worm and peg it is: Register Introduction amended.
       
       
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: nikbj68 on January 31, 2016, 13:56:26
    2 more photos from Russ showing the Dash of 2030 used in the Cobra handbook:
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/AC%20Cobra%20RampP%20Chassis%20Instr%20Book_zpsqyworyrd.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/AC%20Cobra%20RampP%20Chassis%20Instr%20Book_zpsqyworyrd.jpg.html")
       How cool!
       
       ...And the current footwell:
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/IMG_1333_zpsl3qnqtmx.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/IMG_1333_zpsl3qnqtmx.jpg.html")
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: nikbj68 on February 26, 2016, 20:44:50
    Russ managed to find this fantastic shot of 2030, bearing the current registration too!
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/image.jpg1_zpszah4juwx.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/image.jpg1_zpszah4juwx.jpg.html")
       Taken from this publication:
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/image.jpg1_zpsrvfzadam.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/image.jpg1_zpsrvfzadam.jpg.html")
       
       
       And this amusingly doctored promotional photo, with the addition of sidevents...
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/image.jpg4_zpskm3is05t.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/image.jpg4_zpskm3is05t.jpg.html")
       
       which were definitely not there on this original of the same shot!!
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/image.jpg5_zpshulcslir.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/image.jpg5_zpshulcslir.jpg.html")
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: nikbj68 on February 28, 2016, 09:42:23
    Not content with painting in sidevents, for the UK AC Cobra Brochure, Keith Judd was given a set of sunglasses too!!!
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/_534_zpsaqjsdxma.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/_534_zpsaqjsdxma.jpg.html")
       
       Russ would very much like to acquire an original of this photograph, if anyone can help please?
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: shep on March 04, 2016, 13:04:15
    Love it!
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: swiftruss on March 04, 2016, 16:12:52
    With the massive amount of help I have received so far from club members I have been able to establish details of many suppliers of reproduction parts but I am keen to source as many original items as possible. I am aware of the fact that they are in short supply but If any one has any that they would be happy to part with for a genuine car, I would appreciate the opportunity to purchase them. Likewise if anyone can give me any leads to any parts I would be most grateful
       
       Most of the running gear is serviceable but I am keen to source an early 260 motor. I require almost everything for the interior. A picture of my dashboard when new is shown earlier in this thread.
       
       Thanks again for all the help I have received so far.
       Russ
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: rstainer on March 08, 2016, 13:38:47
    Russ,
       
       Engines/blocks etc: I've emailed you a California source that's always come up with the goods for me.
       
       RS
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: MkIV Lux on March 08, 2016, 13:58:14
    quote:
    Originally posted by nikbj68
       
    Russ managed to find this fantastic shot of 2030, bearing the current registration too!
       
       (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/CS2030/image.jpg1_zpszah4juwx.jpg) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/CS2030/image.jpg1_zpszah4juwx.jpg.html")
       

       
       how about the additional nose badge[?]
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: Morgy on March 17, 2016, 20:04:28
    Forgive if this is not what your after...
       
       
       http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sunbeam-Tiger-260-Engine-Block-complete-with-std-bores-/252321630384?hash=item3abf8a88b0:g:rJQAAOSw~otWfo3n
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: swiftruss on August 09, 2016, 13:18:58
    Thanks again to all the club members who have helped me so far with parts and advice in relation to the restoration of CS2030. I look forward to meeting some of you personally for the fist time at The National Weekend. I will have the car with me and will welcome any comments or suggestions or further advice regarding its restoration to original specification. As I have such a good reference point for the restoration of the dashboard (above - see picture of the dashboard of CS2030 which were used in the drivers handbook)I would be most grateful if anyone could point me in the direction of any similar original instruments (working or not)
    Title: CS2030
    Post by: rsk289 on August 10, 2016, 00:13:48
    Just love the Gold Seal advert.  When I qualified in 1978, I treated myself to my first 'proper' car from Gold Seal in New Cross - a two-year-old Jensen-Healey, with the Lotus 907 engine.  Turned out not to be that 'proper', in fairly short order...
       
       Good luck with the car, Russ
       
       Roger
    Title: Re: CS2030
    Post by: aaron on August 23, 2019, 03:52:33
    The car looks fabulous now, fitted with an original AC body
    Title: Re: CS2030
    Post by: rsk289 on August 29, 2019, 12:56:49
    Russ, did you get the instruments all sorted in the end?  I can't remember where you had got to!

    I've found a good route to getting a very accurate cable drive speedometer and tachometer made up using original instruments from another model.  If you're still stuck on this, get in touch.

    Roger
    Title: Re: CS2030
    Post by: swiftruss on September 04, 2019, 16:31:00
    Many thanks Roger. Email sent.
    Title: Re: CS2030
    Post by: swiftruss on November 01, 2022, 11:42:15
    60 years today since AC Ace Cobra CS2030 was first registered. Thanks again to everyone who has helped me with the project. Russ
    Title: Re: CS2030
    Post by: bobbylangley on November 04, 2022, 08:22:00
    Looked even better in the flesh Russ, you've masterminded a great job!
    Title: Re: CS2030
    Post by: aaron on December 06, 2022, 21:34:52
    The car looks fabulous ,I remember chatting with Russ about the car at Croft a few years ago