AC Owners Club Forum

AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: French Frie on January 21, 2015, 14:36:43

Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: French Frie on January 21, 2015, 14:36:43: I didn't post here for some time, as my MKIV was having some make-up...

   in fact, during one of the long trip I love to do, in splendid scenaries, I encountered a break down on the way back to home ... at a relatively low speed (50/60 kmph) and on a straight line (fortunately !), the left A-arm lower ball joint broke [xx(] !

   so the A arm dropped to the ground, and the wheel hit the wing , smashing the inner wheel arch and the wing ! of course, the wheel was able to turn freely and remained stuck for about 50 meters ! I succeed in keeping the car on the road and didn't hit anything, but stopped at about half a meter from a stone wall !

   (http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s673/frenchfrie91540/public/7E7399D2-7686-44AA-B72E-056756DB110C_zpszzzfsr5y.jpg)

   (http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s673/frenchfrie91540/DD8F921E-6EB1-45B1-B1A4-35C8CC7F7844_zpsjzvmdaiq.jpg)

   it was in the middle of nowhere, and it took ages to tow the car to the nearest garage, then to go back to home. it took even longer to have the car back near my home (about 1 month !) and for the assurance to accept to have it repaired in the Caron's workshop, which is near my home... He's accustomed to work on alloy bodies, and he has to repair CSX2127 few times [}:)] !
   it took also some time for the insurance expert to agree, and C2C is quite busy in summer with races ...
   as the paint was original, we guessed that we'd never obtain the same texture and hue , so I decided to have a total body respray. then I also thought that it would cost me a lot of money anyway, so I took the opportunity to change the color and have the sidemarks and cockpit leather lip removed ... I've never been a great fan of the red/tan leather combo, which is very US minded to me (no offense), and I was a fan of the black body of Rev and Dpk_Cobra cars, so I choose the Black/tan combo... I know some members may regret those mods on a very original car, but hey, the more important thing is that the I love the car, isn't it [}:)] ?

   so yesterday, after more than 8 months after the crash, here is the result :

   (http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s673/frenchfrie91540/public/75032939-1DBD-4C1A-B4F2-425186FE9C5A_zpsn1tjyrsv.jpg)

   (http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s673/frenchfrie91540/public/9F843B36-C7CC-490C-A589-E071E9079712_zpslrfqo64l.jpg)

   (http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s673/frenchfrie91540/public/CFE7C562-A934-430D-9ED2-1BA6B76C4A3D_zpsf5vdpgne.jpg)

   of course, the car was totally stripped down, all seals were replaced, the sidelights were replaced by alloy sheets and welded, and we took the opportunity to replace ball joints, rose joints, bushings and shocks (Gerry's Gaz shocks were still waiting)...

   I'm very pleased with the classy result, which compliments the street look of the MKIV... The Caron's team did a long but terrific job ! Can't wait until Friday, when I'll pick up the car [:)] !

   PS: of course, I'd prefer to keep the car the way it was before the ball joint failure, but I've to go on and all in all, I transformed this issue in an opportunity [:I] ...
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: dkp_cobra on January 21, 2015, 16:16:53: Really nice [:)]
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: nikbj68 on January 21, 2015, 17:23:28: How lucky you were to be able to stop the car so well, and limit the damage!
Looks fantastic, I`m glad something good came from a bad situation. Here`s to many miles of happy motoring in Black Beauty!
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: REV on January 21, 2015, 18:20:08: Beau!

   Looks a stunner!

   :-)
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: French Frie on January 21, 2015, 20:52:39: You're right, Nik [B)]! The days before, we were on twisty and bumpy roads, in the Cévennes :

   (http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s673/frenchfrie91540/692DEFF5-8F51-4037-9439-60DC5AC77A2B_zpsh0ebzv0k.jpg)

   (http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s673/frenchfrie91540/7A776D2D-ED58-471A-BD72-B4B2FCFA6EB5_zps48oztcsd.jpg)

   Terrorizing mosquitoes [:o)] :

   (http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s673/frenchfrie91540/08A6BE48-8A43-4DEB-A1DC-5B943B3B7271_zpsxnfxmp5z.jpg)

   We had a real good time, with few cars on the road, but what if the failure had happened in a canyon [xx(] ? Please check your ball joints !
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: AC Ace Bristol on January 21, 2015, 23:57:51: .
   French Frie.

   Nice to hear She's back on the road, could have been real serious should the ball joint have failed the day before.

   Glad you took the opportunity to change from Red to Black.....A good Choice, Mind you I could be Biased...[;)]

   Looks more classy and now has attitude.... Enjoy the next outing.

   Keith..[:)]
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: jbottini on January 22, 2015, 13:12:21: FF, my old girlfriend looks brilliant in her new frock!! Jim B
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: AC Ventura on January 22, 2015, 17:49:22: It looks fantastic in black with the 15s. The definitive Cobra colour for some reason. In the last few weeks, I have become custodian of AK 1500 which is red with black interior. I want to change it to black like yours and in time I will, I feel completely sure.
On another matter, how on earth do we check our ball joints, mes amis?
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: Mark IV on January 22, 2015, 21:29:42: Very nice! And I am pleased that JBo has approved! Nice to see one of my former charges being enjoyed!
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: French Frie on January 22, 2015, 22:15:49: Hello Jim and Rick ! I must confess I was concerned about your comments, even if she's my mistress now [;)] ... Glad it pleased you ! She will do a lot of miles again and again, and will be treated well, as usual ... I'll let the community know about my Gaz Shocks experience as well ! Still 15 hours to wait ....
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: nikbj68 on January 23, 2015, 09:32:59: Sorry to focus on the negative, but how did the balljoint break? Did it burst out of the socket, shear clean off? Was there any warning at all or just Wallop! Do you have a photo of it?
I'm just trying to help others avoid the same issue... Keith & I were discussing it last night and wondered if even though there may be no obvious wear, would it be wise for MKIV owners to replace their 30+ year old balljoints now as a matter of course?
Have there been any other MKiV's suffer the same failure, or were you just the unlucky one to have a faulty joint that finally let go after goodness knows how long?
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: French Frie on January 23, 2015, 10:56:42: that's a good point, Nik !

   I can't tell for sure what has broken in the ball joint, as I was a bit shocked and the car was lying on its disk when we removed the wheel, in order to tow the car on the trailer...

   the short story is : when I swapped the 16" wheels for the 15" ones, I noticed that there was a very small play in the upright... I put the wheel on, and went to the local MOT shop, who's a good friend of mine, ask him to check. he shaked the wheel side to side and up and down, and didn't noticed any play; then, wheel on the ground, he used a bar to try to move the upright and didn't found any play... so I left, confident, but my guess now is the ball joint was already weak, but when loaded, it couldn't be noticed [:(] ! I SHOULD have replaced it anyway !

   Jim, the PO, told me that he has changed the right side one, few years earlier, and I kept the ref. part (TRW JB252, saab 900 '69-->ç") , in my Iphone... it was very helpful as the local workshop was able to change it and then the car was able to be moved on its wheels, reducing possible further injuries !

   during this trip, we had very good and fast blasts, and roads there are sometimes quite harsh, with polholes... I assume it has accelerated the wearing !

   to summarize : I assume it a very good thing to check your cars for ball joints wearing, especially on fast and powerful cars as ours. furthermore, I think it can be a wise thing to replace them BEFORE it wears, as even if cars may only have few thousand miles on the odometer, ball joints can be 30 years old ! provided the replacement part is a good quality one, of course ...

   Jim, can you tell us why the RS ball joint was replaced, during your ownership ?

   PS : Caron replaced two upper A Arm rose joints as well, as he found a very smal play in them ...
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: nikbj68 on January 23, 2015, 12:11:46: A very quick search led me to Mister-Auto (http://"http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/ball-joint/trw-jbj252_g2462_a161JBJ252.html") who stock the balljoint for £29.96 each +VAT,

   (http://media.mister-auto.com/trw/ball-joint/210x200/161jbj252-1.jpg) (http://"http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/ball-joint/trw-jbj252_g2462_a161JBJ252.html")

   AND they sell on eBay (http://"http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRW-JBJ252-Ball-Joint-for-SAAB-99-1967-1987-/291287817193") too (based in France!!!).
   What price peace of mind?
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: dkp_cobra on January 23, 2015, 13:25:43: Nik, you are a rich man. Calling £29.96 each +VAT cheap. I show you what cheap means:

   http://www.ebay.de/itm/NK-Trag-Fuehrungsgelenk-5044102-1-/161438803960?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

   15,90€ incl. VAT (and think of the actual €-change rate).
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: Flyinghorse on January 23, 2015, 13:27:27: I cant believe there is no photo of the offending ball joint and how it broke?

   There are not many options. I guess it could have come out of the taper by loosing the nyloc nut,or it fractured in the taper,or the ball wore and popped out.(note no grease nipple?) or the cast piece fractured and broke.

   Was it an OEM part?

   It makes you wonder what quality of new one you should put in --perhaps not the cheapest.



   Graham
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: dkp_cobra on January 23, 2015, 13:57:17: One small notice: these ball joints are from Saab and are not used for the early MK IV's as you can see here:

(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r138/dkp_cobra/Cobra/IMGP3237.jpg) (http://"http://s143.photobucket.com/user/dkp_cobra/media/Cobra/IMGP3237.jpg.html")
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: nikbj68 on January 23, 2015, 14:53:32: quote:
Originally posted by dkp_cobra

Nik, you are a rich man. Calling £29.96 each +VAT cheap.

   Oh I laughed out loud!!!
   I`ve been called MANY things, but rich was never one of them!!! [:D][:D][:D]

   I do, however, have experience of fitting the cheapest parts (http://"http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volkswagen-Passat-1-9-TDI-FRONT-SUSPENSION-WISHBONE-ARM-KIT-FULL-KIT-/181647305902")* (coz I ain`t rich, and I`m the son of a Yorkshireman, who make the Scots` reputation for tightness appear generous!), and yes, I saw copy parts even cheaper than those, but I wouldn`t EVER fit them to one of your cars!!! [xx(]

   (Oh, and if you buy the TWR ones on eBay, the £29.96 appears to include VAT AND shipping...[;)])


   *£100 for an entire VW front suspension, compared to £500+ (or £1100 fitted!!!) from V.A.G, but was shot within 10,000 miles!
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: AC Ventura on January 23, 2015, 15:47:24: Maybe the increased grip of modern tyres like the Avon ZZ, increases lateral loads on suspension parts.
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: jbottini on January 23, 2015, 23:53:49: FF, memory serves, I replaced the passenger s,ide or perhaps was wheel bearings a thousands miles or before she went overseas,Im
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: French Frie on January 24, 2015, 10:30:51: Hi Jim, I remember well (i'm younger [;)] !) you told me it was the rs ball joint (and you asked here for that in an old thread) ...

@Flyinghorse : To me, it was the ball that popped out, or the thread that broke... What I recall is that the nut was still in place, with a part of the tapped part . And the upright was intact. It is strange that i can't find any pic, as I thought that I took some...
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: jbottini on January 24, 2015, 11:08:27: Yute' isn't wasted on the young!
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: French Frie on January 25, 2015, 16:18:05: Ahahah ... In French, we say : "Si jeunesse savait, si vieillesse pouvait" (can be translated : "If youth knew, if old age could") [;)]
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: jbottini on January 26, 2015, 00:24:45: Sounds good in either language
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: cobham cobra on January 26, 2015, 16:53:59: Pleased to hear you're OK and your car is back on the road. Black is a big improvement - but then I would say that, I'm biased.
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: jbottini on January 26, 2015, 22:35:53: All well and good, but it was the ORIGINAL COLOR.
Title: don't call her Red Hair anymore !
Post by: westcott on January 27, 2015, 09:14:50: I like Red Hair in her body tight black dress :-)