AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Cobra (Thames Ditton) Forum => Topic started by: SunDude on January 29, 2014, 17:33:00
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The U.S. Historic Vehicle Association (HVA) has a display at the Washington Auto Show, featuring the prototype Cobra Daytona Coupe (CSX2287) which is the first car to be "inducted" into the new National Historic Vehicle Register. The HVA is documenting the car for future generations according to the strict guidelines employed by the Library of Congress.
I happened to be travelling on business in Washington DC this week, and had some time to visit the show once my meetings wrapped up. Here are some photos from my visit. Sorry for the poor quality, but my camera is not professional grade nor are my photography skills.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3829/12206277423_051de58d85_o.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3666/12206277773_acd58be76d_o.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3808/12206663916_fe43328157_o.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/12206277133_2e5da6b29d_o.jpg)
Me and the Daytona Coupe
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/12206278083_df408147d9_o.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3720/12206450974_7340c5e79b_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2867/12206664956_5b513493dd_o.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7298/12206665146_794bab4d62_o.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3807/12206044025_5f4219550d_o.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/12206665306_543f4c7780_o.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5544/12206664216_3410f238ed_o.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/12206664066_01751479be_o.jpg)
Some detail shots
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3778/12206277823_3c233d1e39_o.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5481/12206451034_59dd1a8f13_o.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7294/12206452444_7a10e730b0_o.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3706/12206044805_6273b42e51_o.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/12206278023_bd55d01455_o.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3741/12206452174_393aae355f_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2870/12206277443_b37919b4b2_o.jpg)
The roof has been signed by Carroll Shelby, Bob Bondurant, Phil Hill, Craig Breedlove and (?? Pete Brock ??).
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7395/12206664856_9729a7aa52_o.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5513/12206277103_0dd3a4534a_o.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3769/12206450684_64be861776_o.jpg)
The HVA display also included some great signage and pop-up banners.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3733/12206043755_b2146fd8e6_o.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3697/12206450634_bfd02ee8f7_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/12206663586_985c7eb983_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2819/12206451294_d9f8a765b2_o.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7367/12206451364_4209f05015_o.jpg)
The U.S. Department of the Interior produced a laser-scanned line drawing of CSX2287 which is going to be placed in the Library of Congress's permanent archives. A limited run of 500 numbered prints were available to visitors who signed up for the HVA newsletter. I got print #289. ;-)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7380/12206277083_89daecc8ef_o.jpg)
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For more information about the Cobra Daytona's placement in the National Historic Vehicle Register, check out:
-- the Historic Vehicle Association (HVA) website: http://www.historicvehicle.org/News/Articles/All-Articles/2012/06/11/Shelby-Daytona
-- this post on Hemmings Motor News: http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2014/01/24/shelby-cobra-daytona-becomes-first-vehicle-on-national-historic-vehicle-register/
-- this YouTube video by the HVA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNtIXvoMO0k
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Great post. Thanks Brian.
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Hmm, has the HVA verified that those bungee spare wheel tie-down cables are period correct!?
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I am not trying to denigrate Pete Brock's design or Shelby American's strong role in the development of the Daytona coupes, but to trumpet them as "BUILT IN AMERICA", all-American heritage cars, is a bit over-the-top. After all, it is an undisputed fact in the world of automobilia that a vehicle gets its identity from its chassis...regardless of who rebodied it. All of us on this website know who built the chassis and in what country. We also know that CSX stood for "Carroll Shelby EXPORT". I think most of us also know that a fellow called John Tojeiro in the land of Shakespeare and Newton, designed this chassis and sold the rights to AC, in Thames-Ditton, south of London. Furthermore, it is common knowledge that the Daytona coupes' bodies, while designed by Brock, were built in Italy. While a lot of Shelby engineering and racing experience went into the Daytonas (the reinforcing bracing that made the car handle even better, etc), to just conveniently ignore its non-American antecedents is historical "revisionism".
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quote:
Originally posted by Laurence Kent
I am not trying to denigrate Pete Brock's design or Shelby American's strong role in the development of the Daytona coupes, but to trumpet them as "BUILT IN AMERICA", all-American heritage cars, is a bit over-the-top. After all, it is an undisputed fact in the world of automobilia that a vehicle gets its identity from its chassis...regardless of who rebodied it. All of us on this website know who built the chassis and in what country. We also know that CSX stood for "Carroll Shelby EXPORT". I think most of us also know that a fellow called John Tojeiro in the land of Shakespeare and Newton, designed this chassis and sold the rights to AC, in Thames-Ditton, south of London. Furthermore, it is common knowledge that the Daytona coupes' bodies, while designed by Brock, were built in Italy. While a lot of Shelby engineering and racing experience went into the Daytonas (the reinforcing bracing that made the car handle even better, etc), to just conveniently ignore its non-American antecedents is historical "revisionism".
Just to add a little clarity;
The body for CSX2287, the first coupe, was built in the USA. The others were bodied in Italy. They were built on bare chassis, they were not "rebodied."
It is accepted that the 'C' in CSX does not stand for Carroll ;-) Following that theory, the COX, COB would stand for Carroll and of course they do not.
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thanks for sharing
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quote:
Originally posted by A-Snake
quote:
Originally posted by Laurence Kent
I am not trying to denigrate Pete Brock's design or Shelby American's strong role in the development of the Daytona coupes, but to trumpet them as "BUILT IN AMERICA", all-American heritage cars, is a bit over-the-top. After all, it is an undisputed fact in the world of automobilia that a vehicle gets its identity from its chassis...regardless of who rebodied it. All of us on this website know who built the chassis and in what country. We also know that CSX stood for "Carroll Shelby EXPORT". I think most of us also know that a fellow called John Tojeiro in the land of Shakespeare and Newton, designed this chassis and sold the rights to AC, in Thames-Ditton, south of London. Furthermore, it is common knowledge that the Daytona coupes' bodies, while designed by Brock, were built in Italy. While a lot of Shelby engineering and racing experience went into the Daytonas (the reinforcing bracing that made the car handle even better, etc), to just conveniently ignore its non-American antecedents is historical "revisionism".
Just to add a little clarity;
The body for CSX2287, the first coupe, was built in the USA. The others were bodied in Italy. They were built on bare chassis, they were not "rebodied."
It is accepted that the 'C' in CSX does not stand for Carroll ;-) Following that theory, the COX, COB would stand for Carroll and of course they do not.
What does the C stand for ?
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"X" in the chassis number meant left-hand drive (rather than simply "export"), on ACs from the 1930s up to the Frua. But I agree with Laurance's sentiments. Not forgetting Alan Turner's contribution to the chassis development. Not sure what the "C" stood for. Speculation usually suggests "Carroll" or "Cobra", but maybe the numbering pre-dated the "Cobra" title? Someone here will know much more than me :)
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This was covered at some length HERE (http://"http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1850"), but the definitive* answer is....
....
....
C....
....O....
........B....
............R....
................A.
As Mr 3.5 P_a_t_B states, X means LHD, and B denotes RHD, CO standing for 'Cobra', where S for 'Shelby' wasn`t used.
(*Definitive statement from the Introduction to the Cobra Registers, in the ACOC Members` Area (http://"http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/default.asp").(
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There has also been discussion about AC's breaking down the models by alphabetizing them. Think of the Ace, followed by the Bristol, followed by the Cobra. Models A, B, and C possibly?
And as for that Cobra coupe pictured above, just look at its condition. Apparently the factory must have left off its chassis undercoating/ rustproofing, and the time spent on the Bonneville Salt Flats did nothing positive for its longevity. That thing should be shipped to a restoration facility immediately, if not sooner, and completely dismantled, stripped, and restored to better than it ever was new condition. That's the way to do things today, right?
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CSX2287 belongs to Dr. Frederick Simeone and is normally on display at his museum located just outside the Philadelphia International Airport. The car is virtually unmolested from its racing days and I don't believe the good Doctor has any intention of "restoring" it. I have seen the car many times; it is in running condition and well cared for by the museum staff. If you are ever in Philly stop in to the museum; if you appreciate old race cars you will not be disapointed.
http://simeonemuseum.org/
Pete
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I'm with Cobra Ned - restore the hell out if it! Can you imagine that scruffy wreck at Pebble Beach? Oh, the shame!! Luckily I found some cans of blue spray paint in my garden shed and I have some time on my hands....
To reply to the bungee strap conundrum: they really are period correct! I recently found a photo of 39PH at Goodwood, Easter Monday 1964 and holding down the boot lid - those bungees! Who knew? So we can all relax. :)
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Why restore the hell out of it now the car is kept in a climate controlled environment ? Enjoy the car for what it is. Restoring the car wont make it worth anymore than what people think it is worth now.
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quote:
Originally posted by aaron
Why restore the hell out of it now the car is kept in a climate controlled environment ? Enjoy the car for what it is. Restoring the car wont make it worth anymore than what people think it is worth now.
Aaron, It would appear that you do not speak TREVOR-NED. It can be a strange language. [:o)]
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OK, strange language maybe. But with luck it stimulates thought.
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Yeah, God bless those climate controlled environments:
(http://static.euronews.com/articles/256532/606x341_256532.jpg?1392296330) (http://"http://www.euronews.com/2014/02/13/watch-sinkhole-gobbles-up-8-vintage-corvettes-at-kentucky-museum/")
Restore it QUICK, before Satan claims it to add to his other Corvettes!*
*As you can see, I speak (ef)fluent TREVOR-NED.
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The Corvette photo is clearly an insurance scam using Dinky Toys!! Fools nobody.....
Sorry for the TREVNED postings - unusally for residents of the west coast, Lord Nedly uunderstands the term 'irony' and I have a Pavlovian need to respond. Whip out your OED for more info :) (Plus my medication is wearing off)
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Much as I would like to respond, my wife has completed the laundry and now I am busy with the irony. Shame.
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quote:
Originally posted by BEX308
CSX2287 belongs to Dr. Frederick Simeone and is normally on display at his museum located just outside the Philadelphia International Airport. The car is virtually unmolested from its racing days and I don't believe the good Doctor has any intention of "restoring" it. I have seen the car many times; it is in running condition and well cared for by the museum staff. If you are ever in Philly stop in to the museum; if you appreciate old race cars you will not be disapointed.
http://simeonemuseum.org/
Pete
Not restored, but what happened to Phil Spector's door advertising? You know, the lettering that claimed "World Champion", "427" (yeah, I know) and "Speed record holder" that were painted on when Donna got the car?
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Ned.
Great use of the pun! It's so good I'm sure you must be mainly English with some Detroit added that was all mixed together and refined in California?
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No pun intended - he's just handy with the housework!
I guess the car was de-Spectored. He didn't do himself any favours with his claim to still own the car once someone told him what it was worth!
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If the lettering were restored would it get a " little bit of R-E-S-P-E-C-T" ?
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SB 7019, anyone who knows me would scoff at the use of the word "refined" in reference to same.
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Ned.
Remember that "refinements" can include putting on weight, having a wider girth and drinking a great deal more:-)
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In that case, it's a perfect fit.
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quote:
Originally posted by A-Snake
quote:
Originally posted by aaron
Why restore the hell out of it now the car is kept in a climate controlled environment ? Enjoy the car for what it is. Restoring the car wont make it worth anymore than what people think it is worth now.
Aaron, It would appear that you do not speak TREVOR-NED. It can be a strange language. [:o)]
Maybe I don't speak the language, I am sure if the owner wanted the car restored , it would have been done by now, maybe he just wants to enjoy the car for what it is now, I am sure there is plenty of corrosion on the car after being kept in a lock up for many years.
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Move on. If you have any questions, just ask Cobra Ned. Evidently he knows everything there is to know about Cobras...[:X]
Dale
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Trevor, you would think that after all these years with Cobras we would know better than to imagine they should all be thoroughly and comprehensively restored. Just think, no more changing how the car was originally manufactured in order to irrevocably alter its bits to make it better than new and win a trophy for one's wall. What will happen when there's no more original cars left? Well, why didn't we think of that?
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quote:
Originally posted by Dale W
Move on. If you have any questions, just ask Cobra Ned. Evidently he knows everything there is to know about Cobras...[:X]
Dale
Do you know how close to the truth you are? [:D]
Very very few have a broader knowledge than Ned. [8D]*
*Written in the Queen`s English, not TrevNed, so no translation or intepretation required! [:)]
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Ned: indeed, I have spent many an evening sitting in my old rocking chair on the porch, watching the sun set and wondering what will become of us all, once the ravages of time and metalurgial decay (if that's an acceptable term) has led every Thames Ditton Cobra to slip a fresh chassis under its nice new shiny bodywork. You can retire with honors and I'll carry on writing about replicas! So I win.... :)
Dale - for the record, yes Lord Ned does know it all and has forgotten more about Cobras than mere mortals like me (and you) will ever know. We are not worthy!
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Thanks, but that's simply not true. No one knows all there is to be known. I would like to think that some 35 years of effort as the SAAC Cobra registrar/ historian has taught me something, but it seems there is always more to learn. And that I'm happy to do as well.
[:)]
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Agreed Ned but I was feeling kind, warm and generous. Won't happen again... :)
Lets say 'you know more than most'. And now you know about the AC289 that was flown to New York back in the day and driven around the USA before returning home. So it goes on.
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Trevor. You live in Surrey, there is no porch, no rocking chair and no sunset for at least 4 months of the year. Have you been sipping the 20-50 again [;)].
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Go on John, burst my bubble. Actually I reside in the fair county of West Sussex (just) where we have fine sunsets every day (or maybe that's my screen saver). As for me and the 20/50, you promised never to mention that!