AC Owners Club Forum

AC Owners Club Forum => 428 Frua Forum => Topic started by: cliffordl on June 19, 2013, 17:11:29

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: cliffordl on June 19, 2013, 17:11:29

One of the manifolds has cracked on the Frua and needs cast iron welding. Can anyone recommend someone in the south east who can do it?
   
   The boys at Thunder Road no longer have a contact as their previous welder has now retired. They tell me that the original is an American Ford part but do not know which model it comes from. Attempts to fabricate tubular manifolds have been tricky due to the lack of space available.
   
   Any thoughts on this?

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: dkp_cobra on June 19, 2013, 17:51:23

I am not a welding expert but I remember that I heard that cast iron can be welded with laser welder. Not cheap.
   
   Maybe this is a starting point for search: http://www.twi.co.uk/technical-knowledge/faqs/process-faqs/faq-what-other-processes-are-available-for-welding-cast-iron/

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: david langford on June 19, 2013, 18:32:39

Hi Clifford
              I met up with the guy who is doing the work on my engine at a place where they fabricate stainless steel manifolds and asked about getting them made up for mine. He seemed confident about doing it but it was going to cost around £1000. With all the expense of the engine that'll have to wait til the winter. Don't know how far south you are but this place is just outside Norwich.
              As a temporary fix on my manifold I used Chemical Metal, made by Plastic Padding. Worked really well and may be worth a try.

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: J Jones on June 20, 2013, 01:49:26

Clifford - here's an online tool that might answer your question concerning the origin of your exhaust manifolds.
   I removed mine and replaced them with fabricated stainless ceramic-coated ones. My intention was to send as much engine heat out the tailpipe as possible. The cast iron originals don't breathe as well, and are a heat-sink, keeping engine bay temperatures high. I'm saving my originals to accompany my car whenever it goes to a new home.
   If you've removed your cracked manifold, find the casting number - you might find it identified here:
   http://mustangtek.com/FordDecode.html
   Once identified, it would be MUCH cheaper to track down a used (or unused "new") part in the USA and have it shipped.
   Good luck!
   Jeff

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: cliffordl on June 20, 2013, 18:01:13

Thanks for the feedback. The General Forum have come up with a consensus of opinion regarding who to go to for the welding - my problem there is that the manifold will almost certainly crack up more when removed and the studs shear in the block - then the car will block up the workshop until when and if the repair is made...not popular with the Garage.
   
   So I guess I'll try the chemical metal for now and pursue the original part route and investigate new replacement at the same time.
   
   Has anyone got access to an uninstalled manifold to get the part number? The part is said to come from only the station wagon version of a particular Ford model.
   
   J.Jones - who fabricated your manifold? Short heads have been suggested but it's said that one of the pipes has to be made removable in order to allow access to other parts/go around the steering column?
   
   David can you send me a link to your man in Norwich?
   
   Thanks again
   
   Cliff

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: J Jones on June 20, 2013, 21:16:04

Clifford - Yes, they did use short headers, and modifications were needed to get them to fit in the space available. Dennis Cann (Lynn Park's mechanic) arranged the fitting with a muffler shop he used - but Dennis has retired and is unavailable.
   I'll try to get to my storage sometime soon (it's not close) and find my originals. Unfortunately, I did not take photos of them, and don't have the casting numbers.
   Not much help yet, but I'll try to give you better information soon. Emmanuel might know - his engine is out of the car
   Jeff

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: ak1234 on June 22, 2013, 03:40:48

Cliffordl ,
   
   if you dont mind .. post a few pictures on the manifold ... next depending on where the crack is cast iron can be mig welded with stainless steel wire with Co2, argon / helium mix ... and preheat and slow cool. ... and as I  said depending on where the crack is ... we sometimes drill the ends so the heat dont extend the crack ... it also is a slow process as not to over heat.
   
   Is this manifold for an FE Ford Motor
   
   Ron

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: Jam2 on June 22, 2013, 08:00:46

If you would like a further suggestion for custom made manifolds, try
   
   Dave Tyler t/as Len Hartley Developments, Unit 2, Wootton Fields Farm, Marlborough Road, Wootton Bassett, Swindon, Wilts. SN4 7SA
   01793 849430
   
   No web site, and you might have to try the phone a few times before getting a reply, Dave is very skilled and helpful.

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: david langford on June 22, 2013, 09:56:46

Hi Cliff
           I will be speaking to the guy who is doing the engine next week to get a date for fitting new heads etc and I'll get the info from him and let you know. There was a delay in getting the heads but if that's sorted they should be being changed in the next 4/5 weeks so if you can wait that long I can get the part no. for the manifolds then.

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: cliffordl on June 22, 2013, 15:30:27

Got the camera out and came up with one part number on the underside of the manifold.
   
   (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb29/clifford_039/L1070224.jpg)
   
   Cracks showing here
   
   (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb29/clifford_039/L1070232.jpg)
   
   and here with an old weld showing.
   
   (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb29/clifford_039/L1070164.jpg)
   
   Part number looks like B67237 which is as far as I can tell is not a Ford code.

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: cliffordl on June 22, 2013, 15:40:22

Another view of the crack through the main body
   
   (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb29/clifford_039/L1070233.jpg)
   
   and one of the whole manifold - the cracks are at the right end. Top mount hole looks almost broken away and then a long crack runs down through the body.
   
   (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb29/clifford_039/L1070157.jpg)
   
   Can't see any other numbers - the opposite side has a similar short number (maybe other numbers are on the inside - seems odd though)

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: J Jones on June 22, 2013, 19:11:05

Left and right side manifolds have different but similar numbers. I'm hoping to be able to access my parts this week, but check this link. Anything look familiar?
   The letter "B" would indicate a part from the 1950's. In the 1960's, the letter would be "C", according to the Mustangtek 'decoding Ford Casting numbers" link above.
   Ford FE engine blocks made their debut in 1958, so the manifold might very well have come from an early iteration.
   Unfortunately, Ford were apparently inconsistant (according to FE forums I've visited) in their casting numbering system. The number you found does not conform to the code as understood presently. Maddening!
   
   http://www.fordfe.info/ExhaustManifolds/FactoryEx/indexExhaust.html
   
   http://www.ebay.com/bhp/ford-fe-exhaust-manifold

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: J Jones on June 24, 2013, 02:33:29

Clifford - I managed to get to my storage, and took photos of my manifolds. The clearest number was B67207
   I googled "B67207" "FE" engine exhaust, and found this thread discussing the part
   
   http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1191946603/1192167381/Identifying+stock+exhaust+manifolds+-+possible+upgrade
   
   Interestingly, this thread was started by a fellow in the UK, and his car was a UK-built custom. So... Is it possible the non-standard casting number might be due to it's being a UK manufactured part? Seems unlikely, but not entirely impossible.
   The moderator of the thread was/is Bob Sprowl, and the link to his FordFE site is above, in my previous contribution. He might know...
   
   It certainly seems to be the opinion of the participants in this 2006 FE thread that the manifold is FAR, FAR Faaarrrrr.... from being a "performance" part.
   
   Sorry to be of little help. I vaguely recall Mike McClusky saying he thought these were used in "Country Squire" Estate wagons. I think that may have been a bit of dry humor on his part. Some were used on "original" Cobras - the 428's - that were subsequently re-engined by Shelby or modified by early owners. They are (apparently) one of several variations of "standard FE" 8 bolt, center dump items.
   
   I'll ask around. It's a slim possibility there might be a pile of them in a corner somewhere. Good to know for the ACOC Frua parts list.
   
   Dorman have a 'made in China" replacement that might work, sold by Summit racing. Otherwise, it's Ebay, junkyards or (best case, already discussed) modified "shorty" tubular headers.

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: cliffordl on June 24, 2013, 15:41:06

Thanks for that. i had also heard that these were possibly Galaxie Station Wagon so the 'Country Squire' bit seems about right.
   
   Looks like new headers might be the way to go...

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: david langford on June 28, 2013, 17:14:41

Spoke to the engine guy today and the custom exhaust place is Power and Performance.co.uk and the chap is called Matk Stacey. They also have a contact who can weld the manifolds. The phone no. is 01603 880060 in case you can't find the website.
                Dave

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: Emmanueld on June 29, 2013, 05:31:22

I have been looking for mine and can't seem to locate them, there is another place where they may be. My mechanic told me years ago that there were truck manifold. No matter what, you would better off with a nice set of custom headers. An instant 50HP.
   Welding cast iron manifolds is a bad idea, it will never hold, not with this type of heat and vibrations. These are standard cheap Ford manifolds, I will let you know tomorrow.
   
   Emmanuel[:)]

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: Emmanueld on June 30, 2013, 03:35:46

Still have not found it yet but I have more info, From the numbering scheme it does not look like a Ford part. Let see when I locate mine, like I said yesterday it could be a truck part or an industrial one since these motors found the ways in many applications. What I find odd is that most of  the stock FE Manifolds had one side going back almost horizontal. Maybe to clear a Steering box.
   Emmanuel[:)]

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: J Jones on June 30, 2013, 04:25:35

Emmanuel and I met up today, and he will (probably) post some photos of my tube headers for your edification. He had a similar set-up for his car, but now he thinks he may have a better solution (O JOY) !  We looked at "427 shorty" cast Iron headers (very rare AND expensive), but if he's correct, it would look "stock" and "period correct"  for those who are fussed about such things.
   My car runs great, and the heat issue is mostly a thing of the past, partly due to these ceramic-coated headers. i'm satisfied... for now...
   Paul - To answer a question you posed a long time ago on 'Frua restoration part 2' - yes; I do now have a subtile (and removeable) front spoiler. I followed Emmanuel's lead, it's virtually invisible and works very well.

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: shep on July 08, 2013, 18:40:34

I agree with all the advice. Welding is almost bound to fail, and the manifolds are awful, so why go to all the effort. A pair of tubular manifolds will sound better, release more power, and allow the engine to run cooler. It's a no brainer for a road car. If a place in a musemum or a concours winner is the object of the exercise, a US scrap yard may be the best alternative.

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: cliffordl on July 10, 2013, 14:14:50

So other than David's man in Norfolk (bit far away for me)who else comes recommended to build shorty headers in the South-East?

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: Emmanueld on July 10, 2013, 15:24:49

http://www.dreamershotrods.com/SandersonFF427FordFEBlockHeaders.aspx
   
   Hi any large online part store like Jegs. Get the Ford 100 truck headers. One side gets shortened and the other has to be changed a bit more.
   Get the raw steel ones and then they can be ceramic coated after.
   
   There is another option you might favor:
   
   http://www.headersbyed.com/__ford.htm
   
   or
   
   http://www.stainlessheaders.com/engineheaderflanges
   
   You can buy the exhaust flange and collector separately and have a shop make you the header. Probably the best way.You may want to give a call to QuickSilver Exhaust in London, I have dealt with them in the past, pretty good company. Good luck!
   
   Emmanuel[:)]

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: J Jones on October 01, 2015, 04:14:57

Reviving this old topic, Emmanuel and myself are planning to have new headers fabricated by Mike McCluskey's shop.
   Anyone interested?

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: cliffordl on October 08, 2015, 15:47:49

Yup, do let me know the cost.

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: siegfried on October 09, 2015, 14:01:15

Hi i am interested ,do also let me know the cost.
   rgds Siegfried

Title: Exhaust manifold
Post by: Emmanueld on October 10, 2015, 21:03:04

Here are the photos, These will be stainless steel of try Y configuration which is a big step up compared to the shorty headers we made before. The design is based on some 60's racing Cobras. It is very similar to 60's Corvettes racing exhaust or even the exhausts found on 60's Ferraris.
   
   (http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q271/Emmanueld_2007/IMG_1908.jpg)
   (http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q271/Emmanueld_2007/IMG_1906_1.jpg)
   This is for the mark III, the one above (Right Side) almost fits the Frua, the one at the bottom (left Side) will have to be staggered like the right side.
   
   (http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q271/Emmanueld_2007/IMG_1907_1.jpg)
   
   This is the way it looks on my car. we will adjust the angle to give more clearance. Cost will be reasonable. Jeffrey and I both will get a set, and then we will have a pattern for those who want a set. Long headers make a huge difference in both power and torque compared to shorties. I will ceramic coat mine inside out to reduce heat as much as possible.
   
   Of course, the original manifolds which were  lifted from a ford pick up truck completely restrict the engine.
   
   
   Emmanuel[:)]