AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: AK1131 on November 05, 2012, 13:50:17
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Dear MKIV owners,
This past weekend I participated in the Hilton Head Island Concours d'Elegance in the Club Car Jamboree because my MKIV is not old enough (1972 or older) for the concours event. This year there was a special event called "A British Thing". A couple of years back there was a similar British theme but my Cobra was overlooked instead there were two BMW Minis in the line up. I guess they thought I had a kit car. This year I got lucky, They pick me to be in the parade of 10 British Things. I was the first in line and the first at the podium. I shut off the car and looked at the MC, at that moment I knew I was in trouble. I could see he did not know what the car was. He approached me and ask my name on the PA system then stalled. I figured I had the perfect solution that could not be questioned so I handed him the original window stacker from the Ford dealership with a large AC Logo. He read the first line "1986 Autokraft AC MKIV" then added "a Shelby Cobra replica". I was pissed but did not call he out because I did not want to embarrass him. But he was not done with me. He then told me I had won second place in the Hagerty's award but did not hand me trophy. Later a few of the Host were together in the shade. As I walked past, one commended me on my award. I said thank you but I did not receive anything. He graciously said "OH it is beautiful, lets go get it". Then one of the other host said wait, they made a mistake you did not win.
On the bright side, in Sunday's concours event there were a number of "Real Cobras" both MKII's and MKIII's. Both MKIII's were street versions with no hood scoops and 428's. One belonging to Jim Maxwell is original including the paint. The best was Ron Finger's original USRRC factory race car. My MKIV looked much nicer then any of the original Cobras. There was only one kit car built in 2009 in the entire event but it was in a concour category for modified Fords as a 1967. So my question is should I buy a Pinto or tell them my Cobra is a 1967? [}:)]
Sincerely,
Fred Mix
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Start engine.
Hold throttle at 5000rpm.
Dump clutch.
Shower them in gravel without a backward glance.
Continue until shouting can no longer be heard.
Philistines!
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Do not worry, everyone gets that as a question. I have had replica's / originals. But I think every car has a story to tell that is unique. Enjoy the car and know you have an original AC.
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Not the first time it's happened and certainly won't be the last. Very few of the type of people who organise these events know anything worth a damn about classic cars. Amazed they can even find their way home unaided.
And the answer to your question is: Yes. Buy the Pinto!
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Fred, I know the feeling.... My Mk IV was in a show a couple of weeks ago in Morgan Hill, CA called the British Fall Classic. My Mk IV was the only AC in the show. Lots of MG's, Austin Healy's, Triumphs, Jaguars, many original California "black plate" and even older CA cars, but I digress! Very few of the visitors to the show (and some participants) knew what an "AC" was let alone a MK IV. This seemingly included the organizers of the show itself. There were some pretty rare cars in the show, but the Mk IV I would have to say was one of the rarest. It is a wonderful show in many respects and the hosts went around and interviewed a number of owners over their PA system, which was nice. The judges completely skipped my car however, which is in very nice original condition, and the host interviewed owners around me, but not me to talk about my Mk IV. I know they could not talk to all participants, but the lone AC in the show, let alone a MK IV Cobra, should have been on their list of cars to judge and to talk to the owner about I would think. Based on comments from people I spoke with during the day, lots of them thought my Mk IV was a fiberglass replica. At least, I was able to tell them more details about my car and perhaps educate them about AC's and in particular, about the Mk IV cars.
If anyone is interested, below is a link to my Photobucket album for the British Fall Classic that shows some of the great cars there that day. The BRG Cobra is my Mk IV.
http://s1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd450/bb1kitty/AC%20Cars/2012%20British%20Fall%20Classic%20Morgan%20Hill%20CA/
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That's a crappy story. Happened to me as well. With my Aceca and Ace... at the Concourse D'Elegance of America in Pontiac, MI. One of the judges was Luigi Chinetti Jr. He had no interest in the brand that came to beat up his favorite brand... It became pretty clear that the winners were picked long before they were parked on the green... One guy showed up with three customer cars on his trailer. All three won a prize... Probably for showing up last minute to fill the field.
Gus
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I have been told to park my MK IV with the kit cars at British Car Day at the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix. I opened the bonnet and showed the admissions people the VIN tag. I was then permitted to park with the British cars. My friend with a MK IV was recently made to park by himself at another all British event while a COX continuation car from the early 1990's was touted as an "original" cobra and parked with another 1960's cobra. I don't feel so bad because there were only 400 or so of our MK IVs made and many people have never seen one. What really irks me though is when people think my Morgan is a kit car!
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quote:
What really irks me though is when people think my Morgan is a kit car!
Yeah, I have the same problem with my super seven![:D]
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and you guys all have aluminum bodies, imagine the fun of owning a carbon-fibre CRS, but at least I can show them the weave in the body fabric! [:D]
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quote:
Originally posted by BBK
Fred, I know the feeling.... My Mk IV was in a show a couple of weeks ago in Morgan Hill, CA called the British Fall Classic. My Mk IV was the only AC in the show. Lots of MG's, Austin Healy's, Triumphs, Jaguars, many original California "black plate" and even older CA cars, but I digress! Very few of the visitors to the show (and some participants) knew what an "AC" was let alone a MK IV. This seemingly included the organizers of the show itself. There were some pretty rare cars in the show, but the Mk IV I would have to say was one of the rarest. It is a wonderful show in many respects and the hosts went around and interviewed a number of owners over their PA system, which was nice. The judges completely skipped my car however, which is in very nice original condition, and the host interviewed owners around me, but not me to talk about my Mk IV. I know they could not talk to all participants, but the lone AC in the show, let alone a MK IV Cobra, should have been on their list of cars to judge and to talk to the owner about I would think. Based on comments from people I spoke with during the day, lots of them thought my Mk IV was a fiberglass replica. At least, I was able to tell them more details about my car and perhaps educate them about AC's and in particular, about the Mk IV cars.
If anyone is interested, below is a link to my Photobucket album for the British Fall Classic that shows some of the great cars there that day. The BRG Cobra is my Mk IV.
http://s1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd450/bb1kitty/AC%20Cars/2012%20British%20Fall%20Classic%20Morgan%20Hill%20CA/
Any British car enthusiast will know what an AC is. What planet are these people living on? [:(]
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quote:
Originally posted by Chafford
Any British car enthusiast will know what an AC is. What planet are these people living on? [:(]
[/quote]
I was really surprised and disappointed. Another example. I visited a local collector car showroom today and struck up a conversation with a long term owner of a Austin Healey 3000. When he asked what I owned, I told him and he had no idea about AC's and no idea what a Mk. IV is. Most people here in the U.S. know about MG's, Jaguars, Triumphs, Austin Healeys, RR, Bentley, etc. but draw a blank at AC's. Most British shows have a plethora of the aforementioned Marques but very few to no AC's. I'm not sure if my fellow AC and British car enthusiasts here in the U.S. experience this as well, but that is what I have found. It is rare to see any older British cars on the road any more for the most part and I have never seen another Mk IV here in Northern California let alone any other AC cars on the road except for those in collector car showrooms. If I see any older British cars driving around, it will usually be an MGB or Triumph. Many more of those Marques made and imported over here vs. AC of course.
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I think those type of people fall under the heading of:
Know the price of everything and the value of nothing !
They're really not worth the time of day.
People that know - matter, people that don't know, don't matter.
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The Royal Automobile Club 'know'.
From Cobham to Pall Mall (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YatC9-GOkT8&list=UUnHJiaBksX9vpT8nPcWAAfQ&feature=plcp"). [8D]
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
The Royal Automobile Club 'know'.
From Cobham to Pall Mall (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS9X0i7J5Mg"). [8D]
Nik, fantasic video! Who's Mk IV is the star of the show?
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It`s John, our very own Mr.Cobham Cobra.
That is probably one of the most well-used, (and occasionally ABUSED (http://"http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2177") [;)]!!) MkIV`s you will find, but it is always beautifully presented.
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
It`s John, our very own Mr.Cobham Cobra.
That is probably one of the most well-used, (and occasionally ABUSED (http://"http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2177") [;)]!!) MkIV`s you will find, but it is always beautifully presented.
Very nice! It seems quite an honor to have ones car on display at the Royal Automobile Club. What a wonderful looking place. I am not aware that we have any place similar here in the U.S.
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Thanks everyone. I could not sheep that night I was so rattled. I have a very nice, very tasteful sign I post in front of the car at shows. It informs most, that it is real. The chairman of the event apologized to me. She told me the MC can't handle the unknown.
Yep, someone even ask me if it was a VW. I had a few Morgans. The last was a righthand drive and yep again, I was ask if it was a VW. I never have had a VW so maybe I should get one.
OK, the day of the concours, the cars needed to be 1972 or older. Across the way from the vintage Cobras was a category for Modified Fords. There was a 2009 kit car posted as a 1967 Cobra. I have asked to be in this category next year. Lets see what they say. By the way, Both Jim Maxwell & Ron Finger have seen and appreciated my MKIV.
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The AC Heritage Registry for MKIV is obviously needed
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AK1131 ... I feel your frustration ... I also have had similar experience at a few shows, and going thru the whole Its Not Replica explanation like a broken record get old real fast. My thought would be a simple sign or placard with the History of the AC MKIV posted on or in front of the car might save my voice and frustration. The problem is and maybe some of the experts could help put together a Paragraph which we could post of the exact history and makings of the MKIV of which we would be technically correct .... any help would be greatly appreciated.
Ron
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I created a short write up regarding the background of the Mk IV cars which includes a short history of my Mk IV in particular and have a small clear plastic stand which holds it for display purposes that I had in front of my car at a couple of recent shows. I also have some period magazines with articles on the Mk IV that I have open in the car for display purposes. I feel it has been helpful to educate those looking at the car though those who don't bother to look at these still ask the questions subject of our frustrations posted here.
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quote:
Originally posted by ak1234
AK1131 ... ...... My thought would be a simple sign or placard with the History of the AC MKIV ....
As I understand it, the main problem is to make people understand what a Cobra MkIV is in relation to AC's history, and thereby link our cars to period Cobras (obviously in the US Shelby Cobras are the reference product, however the link to AC is most often ignored).
Hence one would need to make a very short write up of AC history including:
- a shortenend version of the AC History summary as on the ACOC website
- a chronological list of all car models produced by AC (model + years of production + numbers + factory location)
- the list should highlight period Cobras (260, 289, 427) with statement on the fact that all Shelby Cobras were produced (less engine ... ) by AC at Thames Ditton
- the list should highlight MkIV Cobras
- the list should end with last models as recognized by the ACOC.
To ensure correctness, I would suggest that the club officials/historians produce such document, that can then be used at displays and be completed by individual additions as to the owner's car.
The other problem beyond the general public is possible ignorance by organisers of events! So here it seems important to inform them about the facts up-front before joining into an event.
Looks simple, but I reckong from experience it ain't that easy.
There will always be instances where kit cars are being "sold" as genuine and period and very often the guy with the mike making statements just reads what he is being submitted, true or false!
And as stated before on this thread, if we can't get our point accross, let's just ignore those who don't want to know, and enjoy our AC cars by driving them, because that is what they were made for.
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I did such a A4 plastified sheet, with some figures and historic facts, and I put it behind the windscreen on each meeting I may participate to... and it also prevent sometimes the knock-knock on the body to check the material origin [}:)] !
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Hi Fred, over the years I have driven and indeed raced many ACs including Thames Ditton Cobras, Mk IVs, Ace Bristols, a 3000ME and 428 Frua. I own a silver Mk IV LHD, and love to drive it. It is sad that the Show organisers don't understand where the Mk IV sits in the history of the Cobra. They likely think that Carroll fabricated the original bodies and chassis' himself in the USA! I am looking at the ACOC publication entitled "AC Registers 1910-2001" also known as the Millennium Registers. There is a section for the Mk IVs, and your car is listed as AK 1131, 1986 White, 302 engine, lhd, Dobbs Ford USA. Back in 2001 I assume you had yet to discover the ACOC, so owner's details were not recorded. There is more information on the current register on the ACOC Website, but of course that is not a hard copy like the Millennium Registers. For evidence I would suggest carrying copies of books on AC, "Essential AC Cobra" by Rinsey Mills, "AC Cobra The Complete Story" by Brian Laban, and of course "Cobra The First 40 Years" by our own Trevor Legate. Each gives the whole Cobra history AND explains where the Mk IV fits in to the story. Backed up with a copy of the ACOC Register, you would then have some pretty convincing firepower. If it helps, as ACOC Chairman I can also write you a reference for your car, or better still ask Alan Faulkner-Stevens to do it, as the ACOC Cobra Mk IV Registrar. Once you have made the point, and educated the ill-informed, let's hope the problem will be solved. Good luck, Andy.
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quote:
Originally posted by shep
or better still ask Alan Faulkner-Stevens to do it, as the ACOC Cobra Mk IV Registrar. Once you have made the point, and educated the ill-informed, let's hope the problem will be solved. Good luck, Andy.
Good point, Andy... I asked Alan for such a "certificate" (what he did very kindly), and it is printed on the back of the aforementioned A4 sheet [;)] ! no more hasslers with that [}:)] ...
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here's the print (hope nothing wrong in showing it here [:I] - if so, let me know) :
page 1:
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6861/affichette.jpg)
page 2:
Edited : pic deleted
EDITED: I deleted the back of my sheet, as I realized it implies other peoples than me... So, I Wait for their approval
ps : to Terry : ahahah [:o)] ! Should I add this phrase on the boot of my car too, behind the AC logo [;)] ? It's not an official publication, just a sheet of paper...
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French Frie on page 1 of your letter (with the AC logo) please add:
"AC is a trademark of Acedes Holdings, LLC"
The use of the logo is a problem and should be agreed with AC Cars direct.
Thanks,
Terry
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I have noticed with interest that in Alan's certificate 'AC Cars Ltd.' is named as manufacturer of the car. I think that this is logical at least for cars produced after the point in time when Brian Angliss / Autokraft Ltd. (together with Ford) acquired all shares in AC Cars Ltd. in 1986 and, thus, there was no need for Autokraft anymore to operate under a license from AC Cars as they had done before. Somewhat strangely, on the chassis no. plate in the engine bay of my car (AK1200CH, March 1987) it reads: 'This automobile was designed and manufactured by Autokraft Ltd. of Brooklands Industrial Park...' without any reference to AC Cars. I have seen several other MkIVs of that period bearing plates with the same wording.
Does someone have an explanation for this?
Jürgen
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Possibly 'AC' was the registered company for the (then) new AC Ace, jointly owned by Angliss and Ford and 'Autokraft' was 100% owned by Angliss and continued as the official manufacturer of the MkIV.
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[quote.......
EDITED: I deleted the back of my sheet, as I realized it implies other peoples than me... So, I Wait for their approval
ps : to Terry : ahahah [:o)] !....... It's not an official publication, just a sheet of paper...
[/quote]
interesting point!
And it is not commercially used! Would be interested to know what the lawyers say about the reproduction of the logo for non commercial use?
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quote:
Originally posted by Chafford
Possibly 'AC' was the registered company for the (then) new AC Ace, jointly owned by Angliss and Ford and 'Autokraft' was 100% owned by Angliss and continued as the official manufacturer of the MkIV.
In that case it would be correct to specify 'Autokraft' and not 'AC Cars' as the manufacturer. As regards my car the registration papers are not of much help either, they designate 'AC Autokraft' as the manufacturer... Maybe Alan Faulkner-Stevens can bring some light into this.
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There appears to be a point where all Brooklands produced cars were described as ACs. I'm wondering whether this happened when Brian Angliss acquired 100% ownership of AC Cars or when Pride Automotive took over in 1996. Perhaps Mr Legate will be able to confirm.
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I just re-read this thread from the start, and it reminds me so much of my wife's chosen sport. She devotes thousands of hours and Lord knows how much cash, on training and competing beautiful dressage horses. Like our own Concours d'Elegance, the winner is chosen at the whim of a judge or panel of judges. Karen used to get so angry when she reviewed the video of a test where she had been beaten by the judge's second cousin's dog walker, or whatever. Even I could see that the result was wrong, but if you sign up for a daft competition which depends not on fact, but an subjective opinion, what do you expect? I have always preferred sports where you cross the line first, return the ball more times, jump higher or whatever it takes to win. At least Karen now chases perfection on her own terms, and doesn't pay too much attention to the results as decided by the judges. I think she makes a beautiful picture.
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Fully agree, Andy. Know that sport pretty well and the frustrations that it can generate. :-) Your own feeling of getting your horse to perform as you wish it does is more important than the judges' subjective opinion, too often biased.
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This November 1992 article from 'Car' magazine refers to the car as an 'Autokraft' and the car has the Autokraft badge on it, which suggests that strictly speaking 'Autokraft' rather than 'AC' was the manufacturer of record.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/triggerscarstuff/sets/72157629509510133/with/6952129891/
And this official US EPA fuel economy site describes the Mk IV as an Autokraft Ltd A.C. Mark IV
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/28959.shtml
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Thank you for your input, Mark. Whenever in the past I was asked whether my car was a 'true' Cobra I used to respond something like: 'Well, yes, it was built in 1987 by AC Cars which is the company that together with Carroll Shelby produced the legendary Cobras in the 1960ies...' It appears now that this statement is not quite correct if one takes a very formal approach. In view of the fact, however, that after 1986 Angliss/Autokraft did not only have the right to use the AC Cars name and logo but also had access to AC Cars' operating assets (such as staff, tools, equipment), the statement does not seem to be really false or misleading.
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As often is the case, nothing in life is simple, Jurgen! However, all Mk IVs from 1982 onwards were licensed to use the AC badge and outside the USA, by Ford to use the 'Cobra' moniker (up until June 2002). From 1986, Brian Angliss as AC boss was effectively giving himself permission as Autokraft boss to descibe his cars as 'ACs'.
I think therefore it's accurate in the broad sense to say that your car was built by 'AC'!
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quote:
Originally posted by Chafford
As often is the case, nothing in life is simple, Jurgen! However, all Mk IVs from 1982 onwards were licensed to use the AC badge and outside the USA, by Ford to use the 'Cobra' moniker (up until June 2002). From 1986, Brian Angliss as AC boss was effectively giving himself permission as Autokraft boss to descibe his cars as 'ACs'.
I think therefore it's accurate in the broad sense to say that your car was built by 'AC'!
Here are a few pictures from my car (AK 1216) which shows a manufacturing date in October 1987, which was from what I understand, after the date by which Brian Angliss acquired the controlling interest in AC from the Hurlock family. The timing of this event (1986) is shown in one of my smaller period brochures from the Company that contains a timeline of events. The Certificate of Origin for my car shows the manufacturer as "A.C. Autokraft".
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd450/bb1kitty/2001%20Discovery/Hetchins/AC%20Mk%20IV/Autokraft002-1.jpg)
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd450/bb1kitty/2001%20Discovery/Hetchins/AC%20Mk%20IV/Autokraft003-1.jpg)
Interestingly, each sill plate in my car shows the Autokraft logo in the middle, with AC to the left and the "Cobra" symbol to the right. My car was imported directly to the U.S. by the first owner and was not purchased through a U.S. dealer. I understand that the U.S. cars were not allowed to use the "Cobra" trademark, so it is interesting that my car has it! Here is a picture...
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd450/bb1kitty/2001%20Discovery/Hetchins/AC%20Mk%20IV/SillPlate017.jpg)
In a large multi-page period brochure from Autokraft that I have, a page contains the following statement. Not sure if this sheds light on whether the cars are Autokraft cars or AC cars. I am thinking that up until a certain date, the cars are considered to be made by Autokraft but called the A.C. Mk IV.
"Autokraft Limited is a totally independent privately owned British Company, incorporated in 1977 occupying its own recently constructed Freehold factory premises of some 33,000 square feet. The building is sited on four acres of land within the historic motor racing circuit of Brooklands in Surrey and is part of an overall Freehold factory area of 90,000 square feet which is shared with A.C. Cars Limited."
"Brian Angliss is the majority Shareholder in Autokraft who, in turn, are major Shareholders in A.C. Cars. Brian Angliss is also the Managing Director of both Autokraft and A.C. Cars. Autokraft's principle activity has, for the past fourteen years, been the manufacture of two improved and updated versions of the original 1968 A.C. Cobra - the A.C. Mk IV High Output and the Lightweight versions."
I believe the large multipage Autokraft brochure is from 1990, after my car was made. The timeline in another, smaller period brochure I have, shows that AC Cars moved to its new factory in 1988 and that the lightweight version of the MK IV was introduced in 1990. As the "Lightweight" is referenced in my large brochure, this leads me to believe that the large Autokraft brochure is from 1990. The smaller brochure with the timeline has no reference to Autokraft at all...only AC Cars Limited. The last timeline date in this particular brochure is 1992, thus this is likely when this smaller brochure was made. The 1992 timeline date references Brian Angliss' purchase of Ford's interest in AC Cars Limited, thus perhaps it is in 1992 that the cars were "officially" manufactured by AC Cars Limited vs. Autokraft? Not sure. I have the smaller brochure scanned into a PDF file. If anyone is interested, please email me and I can attach and send a copy.
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It would be interesting to see a chassis plate from a '93 - '96 MkIV
This link to a MkIV owners manual refers to Autokraft as the manufacturer:
http://rides.webshots.com/album/31597373CwUCdBYNFd
However if you look at the first brochure on the following site (from 1992/3), only AC Cars are referred to not Autokraft.
http://rides.webshots.com/album/27455338FImWfuvVLR
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The first brochure you refer to with the red Mk IV on the cover is the same one I have with the timeline of events. Anyone have a 1993-1996 chassis plate?
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A couple of photos of MkIVs from the Redline Engineering sales site:
The 1994 London Motor Show car (recently sold):
(http://www.redlinepe.co.uk/images/galleries/sales/ac-cobra-2i.jpg)
And a 1997 car currently for sale (one of the last produced?) - the chassis plates (upside down on the opposite side) can't be seen very well but you can just make out if you look closely that both plates say 'AC Cars':
(http://www.redlinepe.co.uk/images/galleries/sales/ac-cobra-3f.jpg)
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quote:
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I have the smaller brochure scanned into a PDF file. If anyone is interested, please email me and I can attach and send a copy.
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Robert, first of all thank you for your contribution. I tried to send you an e-mail through the ACOC system but recieved a delivery failure notification. Could you please send me your e-mail address?
Jürgen
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quote:
Originally posted by 302EFI
quote:
...
I have the smaller brochure scanned into a PDF file. If anyone is interested, please email me and I can attach and send a copy.
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Robert, first of all thank you for your contribution. I tried to send you an e-mail through the ACOC system but recieved a delivery failure notification. Could you please send me your e-mail address?
Jürgen
Hi Jurgen. Just emailed you from the site.
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How do I post a photo on this page?
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quote:
Originally posted by AK1131
How do I post a photo on this page?
Fred, here is a link to a recent Forum lesson from Nik on posting photos.
http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2560
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quote:
Originally posted by Chafford
As often is the case, nothing in life is simple, Jurgen! However, all Mk IVs from 1982 onwards were licensed to use the AC badge and outside the USA, by Ford to use the 'Cobra' moniker (up until June 2002). From 1986, Brian Angliss as AC boss was effectively giving himself permission as Autokraft boss to descibe his cars as 'ACs'.
I think therefore it's accurate in the broad sense to say that your car was built by 'AC'!
There seems to be much to do about nothing. We know that sometime in 1986 CP Autokraft bought AC, and then sold a controlling interest (50.96%) to Ford soon after. Thus, Ford and Autokraft owned AC, which “manufactured” the Mk IV. This is no different than GM owning Chevrolet, which manufactures the Corvette (and GM is stamped all over Cheverolets just like Autokraft is stamped on ACs), or BMW owning Rolls Royce, which manufactures the Phantom (I haven’t checked-out any Phantoms to see if BMW is stamped anywhere). After Ford was bought-out by Autokraft it became the sole parent company. God knows what happened after that. [:0]
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Here we are at the podium receiving our insults. Please note the MC reading the original window sticker just before he tell the audience my MKIV is a replica. I think his first name is David. If anyone konws his last name I would appreciate it. He know all there is about a Duesenberg but nothing about an Autokraft. Maybe I can broaden his knowledge.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/1bigfish_photos/th_11-3-331.jpg)
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Yes, I konw (know) I am dyslectic and can even type backwards. What is your special skill? Sorry for the typo.[8D]
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OK, The guy's name is F.Edward Lucas II not David. I contacted him on Facebook gave him a jab and suggested he go to the AC Owners Forum for some enlightenment.
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I think you should call him David. EVERY opportunity you get.
When he says "My name is F. Edward Lucas the Second" Just say "Yes, David, I konw it is." [;)]
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I wonder if he is related to Lucas, Prince of Darkness? [:D]
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quote:
Originally posted by BBK: I wonder if he is related to Lucas, Prince of Darkness? [:D]
That would explain what the "F" stands for!!! [:p]
Fail, obviously!
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Clearly another typo - it must be Fedward Lucas, surely? :)
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quote:
Originally posted by Chafford
As often is the case, nothing in life is simple, Jurgen! However, all Mk IVs from 1982 onwards were licensed to use the AC badge and outside the USA, by Ford to use the 'Cobra' moniker (up until June 2002). From 1986, Brian Angliss as AC boss was effectively giving himself permission as Autokraft boss to descibe his cars as 'ACs'.
I think therefore it's accurate in the broad sense to say that your car was built by 'AC'!
Any other views on this?
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It never occurred to me that it was otherwise.
I never liked the MKV, but it was still an AC and there was nothing I or anyone else could do about it. The man who owns AC decides what is an AC. They always have and always will.
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Sounds like something I've said before as well... [:)]
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Becoming an old cracked record. Boring. zzzzzzzzz
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Sorry if I rehashed an old topic. Maybe you can point me to where it was discussed/settled already?
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Sorry, not having a go at anyone in particular but the MkIV was built by both AC and Autokraft. Quite how you define which company built what is hardly relevant. Brian Angliss owned AC Cars Ltd (in partnership with Ford for a while until he spent their joint money re-developing the Ace without telling Ford) and Autokraft, at the same time. Initally the MkIV was an Autokraft product, then Derek Hurlock permitted the use of the AC name and logo (happy days) before he sold the business to BA who negotiated the right to use the Cobra name.
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Thank you, Trevor. Let's leave it at that.
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http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=997
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Thanks for posting, Mark. I think I will not pursue this further though. My point is probably too narrow.
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Jurgen
One of the good things about a forum like this is it allows discussion of a wide range of issues. Occasionally these become controversial and exchanges have to cease, but this is not one of them. Therefore feel free to continue asking questions on this topic as you wish and don't let the 'old lags' intimidate you![;)]
The MkIV Register may provide some insight into this as all the MkIVs whose VIN numbers are recorded, have the format SA9 followed by 'AK' with the exception of one car with a recorded date of January 1997 for which 'AK' is replaced by 'AC' in the VIN number, according to the Register.
As ANF289 posted in 2008, the VIN numbers can be decoded as follows:
Example VIN for AK 1069:
SA9AK3025FA017069
Decoder:
SA9 = British Standard
AK = Manufacturer - Autokraft
302 = Engine size
5 = Check sum number
F = Model Year (1985) (G = 1986, H = 1987, J = 1988 K = 1989, L = 1990, M = 1991 N = 1992 P = 1993).
A = Plant A or B
017 = British Standard
069 = Chassis production number since 1985 (Cars not necessarily produced in numerical order).
Mark
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Oooooh..... Mr. Chafford. Trying to make friends and influence people once again I see!
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/old-lag
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Consider all us old lags deeply offended.
After a glass or several of the rosso grape-juice I first read that 'old slags' so having checked via me National Health specs, I'm almost relieved :) (and they said it would never stand up in court....)
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Easily fixed, my car's registration plate in California when new was "REAL AC", repeated in Oregon when the car moved there. That was for AK1061