AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => General Forum => Topic started by: rstainer on August 04, 2012, 12:29:36
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This is a super idea which deserves its own string. Future posts below?
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Robin.
This topic was posted throughout the ACOC Forum, I posted simply to indicate to those interested that as there are two distinct threads its worth consulting both.
You are right. An International in USA west Coast is a great idea and many of us have already shown our interest, Gus Meyjes will definitely be pleased to hear of your interest, which one of your Cobras do you intend to ship across the pond.
Good Luck Gus with your research and plans.. please keep us all informed preferably via one thread on Forum and via ACtion on a monthly basis.
Unfortunately majority of the ACOC membership do not venture onto the forum, so are not always conversant with current issues and potential events, but could well be interested in this once in a lifetime ACOC International.
Keith ..
Keith,
Either 2193 or 2042, depending on the itinerary.
Robin
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I just received my ACtion magazine for August and was disappointed to see that the Council appeared to have a somewhat lukewarm sentiment regarding the proposed USA International.
It also announced hiring a professional Event organizer in order to set up a European "international" as an alternative.
I am, frankly, miffed by this approach. I am gauging interest in a USA International and until a final decision has been made with regards to carrying through, I had hoped ACOC would not suggest competing events and I had also hoped for ACOC's full and enthusiastic endorsement. But I could be wrong in my interpretation, so please correct me if you attended the meeting in question.
There will be an announcement in September's ACtion magazine with a call to action on behalf of members. The feedback I receive will help in deciding whether to move forward with this or not. With international shipping and possibly a very large gathering of AC's from Europe and the USA this will take quite a bit of organization and I hope I can count on ACOC's full endorsement. If not, this will not truly be an ACOC International, which would than defeat the purpose.
From the many excited emails I have received to date, I'm confident this can grow into a fantastic and unique event.
I'm in the process of setting up a organizing committee and already have several ACOC members on the West coast enthusiastically involved.
If any of you readers is on the Council or attend Council meetings or personally know Council members, can I solicit your help in making this a fully endorsed event and stir up enthusiasm for this truly "Once in a lifetime event"?
Keep checking this thread for updates. I will start with outlining a rough idea of the tour in the near future.
Gus
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Gus
I was not present at the last council meeting, therefore was not privy to what was ACtualy said by various members of the ACOC Council.
Rest assured there is a positive appreciation and enthusiasm for a ACOC International event in USA and as you rightfully point out a chance in a Lifetime.
At present there is enthusiasm and encouragement for this event, However due to worldwide economic recession and the fact that many members are paying mortgages and/ or school fees and have committments to both Family and Business , we cannot expect a vast number of members to have or allocate the odd spare £4000.00 or more for a three week vacation and be without their AC for a few months for the Summer / Autumn.
The ACOC often find that more than one event in the same year clash or take precedence over another, so Priorities continually change, that doesn’t mean there is little or no support for a USA International.
We need to have some rough outline and accurate budget pricing in order to evaluate response , The ACOC Internationals of past ten or twenty years have been well supported by English and European members with many driving thousands of miles to meet up and enjoy the hospitally of our AC Host/s .
Please do not take this the wrong way, we do not see ACs comming across the pond in any number, We did have 4 Aces flown in from Chicago by the Mulacek Family for the 2010 International and Le Mans Classic. The cost is somewhat restrictive to majority of our members on both sides of the pond.
This ACOC International is a big committment and will take a while to materialise, so please organise a small committee of ACOC members and enthusiasts , We on this side of the Pond will support with advise and enthusiasm, You do not need to bring in Professional services to organise the event, A Small group can cope comfortably.
One or two to organise a route and produce Route Book/s.
One or Two to book and monitor Hotel/ stop over reservations..
One or two to contact and book restaraunts or Tie in all facilities and ammenities.
Not every one will want to join the majority all the time so the odd alternative venue /place of interest is required, with alternative route to jump ahead or rejoin party.
Jean Marc Dubost and I are the only 2 who organise the very successful Le Mans Classic every other year, granted it only involves Booking Circuit Tickets, Chateaux. Ferry crossings and a Gala Dinner for 125 or so. But despite we are in different countries. It works well.
Most ACOC Internationals are organised by one, two or three people, Who work as a team and produce a good varied itinerary of interesting venues , with good route book , eating establishments and accomodation.
I will ask a few organisers from previous ACOC Internationals to email data on their events, Places of interest in the past have included Vinyards, Glass making Factories/ Foundaries. Driving instruction/ skid pan, Villeroy and Boch Factory, Coal Mine, Race track and Hill climb to name just a few different venues / places of interest to entertain a wide range of Members of different Nationalities and Age.
The number of Cars taking part in the ACOC international and Le Mans Classic vary between 25 and 65 cars, however back in 2003 we Actually had 102 ACs in the rallye field and 34 ACs on the grid for the AC Ace Challange Race at Donington Park. A great International organised by John Arnold , his secretary and a couple of members...
Don't give Up, you have already made inroads to organising a Very Special ACOC International, granted the Majority will be American members but you should see a dozen or so from UK and Europe if the Transportation of our cars and Airflights are negotaited fiercly at your end with some costs possibly met by a sponsor, USA / European Company. ( transport Co, Insurance Co, Oil Co or IT Co ??)
Gus, I have spoken to Andy Shepherd whilst at the Bentley Drivers / Silverstone meeting this afternoon, he agrees with me that it is feasable, but due to financial committments of many ACOC Family members the overall cost of this International will curtail many from participating, so a alternative event during the year would be on / in the ACOC calendar. Eg. A Special National Event.......... In fact The ACOC always have a National Event as well as a International meeting every year, with Le Mans Classic alternate years, Not every member can or wants to participate, It is nice to have a choice.
Go for It, keep everyone informed via the Forum and Action Magazine, If it proves a wee bit daunting prepare it for 2014, but as Andy has stated before , most Internationals are planned within twelve / fourteen months and prove to be very successful.
If I Can assist in any way and ACt as a go between with you and ACOC Council I will do my best.[;)]
Please note I have copied your email and my reply to Andy Shepherd Our Chairman, and a few International members so this matter can be discussed at the next Council meeting ( Last Thursday of each Month.)
Last but not least. Imperative that all parties participating MUST Pay DEPOSIT , non refundable or on sliding Scale, Individuals Must have their own Travel and Medical Insurance. Disclaimers etc can be sorted and agreed at later date. .... Priority is to Confirm Costing, proposed date and put together Itinery.
Hopefully I have not offended or discouraged. One or two Members can come up Trumps ..... Many of us have in the past, Many of us will in the Future..[;)]
Cheers for Now
Keith ..[:)]..[:)]
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Copy of email from Jean Marc Dubost, Interest shown for ACOC International USA by a few members of AC CLUB FRANCE..[;)]..[;)]
Hi Gus
Will yu be coming to Pebble Beach / Carmel next week? I am flying to SF next monday to assist at the concours delegance & various other events therefore could be a good opportunity to meet each other at best convenience and discuss further about possible venue of AC French/European members. For info
I will attend the AC dinner on friday evening.
I know already that several AC French members are interested .
Kind rgds
Jean-Marc Dubost
GUS
You have captured the attention of Many, A once in a lifetime ACOC international in USA (West Coast), Keep posting updates and the party will continue to grow. [;)]
Keith..[:)]
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I will be in Monterrey next week to enjoy to classic car frenzy, but it is also turning out to be a great time to meet with ACOC members from all over the world. I will be meeting with members from the west coast, Canada, UK, France etc. Everyone has expressed interest in the International and everyone has committed to be of assistance in making this happen. This is VERY exciting!
With 50 ACOC members and Cobra owners at the dinner in Pacific Grove, I will certainly make an announcement about the event!
Can we get 100 AC cars together for this next year?
Gus
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100 A.C.s ? Easy just go for it Gus
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Hi Gus,
I can only support what Keith and others have said hereabove. Just go for it.
Personally, I prefer it to happen in 2013 rather than in 2014, as the Le Mans Classic event takes place in even years, and many of us go there, some for racing.
With a team of 3 or 4 at your end, and 1 or 2 for coordinating from this end, it should be feasible to make it all happen with a leadtime of under 12 months.
You have our support.
Constant
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Gus,
If you haven’t already done so, I’d suggest that you talk to Jim Feldman regarding recommendations for routes, lodgings, and attractions. He participates in the California Mille every year, and could probably share some ideas for routes and vintage car friendly accommodations / attractions in California (maybe even a copy of some old itineraries and route maps to build from…). No sense in reinventing the wheel if someone else has been their already! Jim will likely be in Monterey this week showing one of his many AC’s that he has in his fleet.
PS – There are also a number of other AC’s that participate in California Mille.
Good Luck with your efforts to put together an International gathering in the US.
Cheers,
John
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Those were exactly my thoughts and I have formulated a letter to Jim yesterday. As Jim apparently has not yet moved into the age of instant messaging, I will fax it to him tomorrow!
I just spoke with Jeffrey Jones along the same lines. He has participated in the Mille and I have friends who have done so, so my mind has already ventured in that very direction....
Gus
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The Council meeting was nearly two months ago and what was reported in ACtion was a bit of caution about likely costs and how many members could afford it. Talking to a number of people in the last month, there's a lot of interest in what would be a real "one off" (at least it would be a one-off the first time!) and a growing groundswell of enthusiasm. As Keith notes above, it will depend on final costs and programme. Good luck drawing up the proposals!
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I now have a small group of people committed to assistance in organizing the International. We will have a framework formulated in the next 10 days and I will post this on the Forum. I will be meeting with a number of people in Monterey this weekend in regards to this event.
I also have a much better idea of how previous internationals have been organized and what members expect from these events.
I'm very confident we can present a fantastic USA International with fabulous driving, site visits, Wine country tours, Pebble Beach extravaganza etc, etc.
With regards to Expense, the only "hard" quote I have to date is $4000 round trip for shipping of the cars, all paperwork and customs work included. I suggest interested members go online and check flight options most suitable to them. Depending on shipping we may start in Santa Monica and therefore flights to LA are in order, or we may start north, so flights to San Fransisco or nearby airports may be in order.
At any event I'd say: Start putting some money in your USA international savings account and start dreaming of California driving, twisting roads along the pacific coast, Redwood giant trees, mountains, wine country, Pebble Beach, etc, etc... This is going to be good!!
Gus
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US CUSTOMS ENTRY
Gus,
have just checked with a shipping firm in the UK (£2100 one way from Manchester UK to LA) who tell me that temporary importation of cars into the USA requires a "Carnet de Passage" and a bond posting to the value of up to 50% of the vehicle.This is done through the RAC in this country who will then complete the customs ducumentation.
I think this could be a stopper and should clearly be investegated further before we all get too excited.
Mike
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I have been in touch with Rinkens International, who do this all the time and ship 1500 cars every month. They did not mention this and they claim to have experience with shipping cars and motorcycles for temporary use in the US for clubs and tours. I will not ignore your suggestion and shoot an email immediately.
Gus
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quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
I have been in touch with Rinkens International, who do this all the time and ship 1500 cars every month. They did not mention this and they claim to have experience with shipping cars and motorcycles for temporary use in the US for clubs and tours. I will not ignore your suggestion and shoot an email immediately.
Gus
Gus - for several years in the '90s and early '00s, Morgan owners did a 30+ day tour called Morgans Over America. It was sponsored by the UK Morgan Owners Club and the NCal Morgan Owners. I believe that they ran this at least 4 or 5 times with the last one in 2005.
Here is a link that might be useful -
http://www.morgansoveramerica.co.uk/
There are some names from the NCal Morgan Owners club that might be helpful.
Good luck - tom i in AZ
AEX456, BE772
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Tom, Thanks!
relatively short hop from Arizona. I assume I can count you in on this one?!
Gus
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Gus
Just read the Loooonnnggg email from Jeff Jones,Some great Ideas but suggest you keep things simple, some days drive 200/300/400 miles, to get to a central base, book Hotel for a few nights and radiat from base, other times move Hotel to Hotel night by night.
ACs dont have extra large boot space once Julies Packed 12 pairs of shoes, colour co-ordinated day and evening outfits (for 2 or 3 weeks), leaves me with space for 2 pairs of shoes, 2 packs of throw away boxer shorts and a few shirts .... HELP !....
Travel light is not in the Female vocabulary.[B)]
Seriously....Without being Sexist and non PC, The Girls dont always want to hear a V8 or Straight 6 for hours on end and do appreciate a few more creature comforts than us Fellas / Petrol Heads who have a different outlook.
So the odd Hotel or Country Club / Health Club would be appreciated.[;)] if some of the group prefer to have a day out of the
Ace / Cobra / AC PVT etc etc.
Just a Idea ..... A case of Balance with Great places of interest with good food / wine and scenery plus great cosmopolitan company and New Scenery.
Cheers
Keith..[:)]..[:)]
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The Sonoma Mission Inn sounds like Keith's home base. Centrally located in the Wine Country with easy access to the North Coast, San Francisco, Sears Point (and shops located there), ect.
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My thoughts exactly...
The going joke among my friends is you pack light: all the ladies need is two thongs and a tooth brush...[:D][:D]
I know, not PC...
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quote:
Originally posted by jrlucke
The Sonoma Mission Inn sounds like Keith's home base. Centrally located in the Wine Country with easy access to the North Coast, San Francisco, Sears Point (and shops located there), ect.
John.
I take it You and some (Old) Racing Buddies are definitely up for the ACOC International USA, Being .... Home turf !![:)]
Hopefully we get to meet up and put Faces to Names that have been on numerous emails over the years..[;)]
Would be great opportunity to see some of the circuits ( assuming some still exist..[?]) that James Parsons once exercised BEX333 on, from Late 1957 to December 1964.e.g. Westwood, Shelton etc etc.
Keith..[:)]..[:)]
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Keith,
Yes, I’m excited about the prospects of an ACOC International possibly running through my backyard (Sonoma County). I might not be able to justify running the whole event, and I’d have to have a running car (minor details)…but I’d certainly plan on catching up with the group along the way to meet up with fellow AC owners from both sides of the pond. A track day at Sonoma Raceway would be grand![:D]
If all goes well, It sounds like you would plan on shipping your car back from Seattle or Vancouver…so that you can reunite it with its old stomping grounds.[;)]
John
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Gus,
Found this on the the US EPA site - pretty clear so should be no problem [:)]
2.2.5 Temporary Vehicle Imports for Nonresidents
Motor vehicles and motor vehicle equipment for personal use may be imported for up to one year.
The vehicle must be imported in connection with your arrival, and it must be owned by you or on order before you depart from abroad. Only individual nonresidents may import a vehicle through a nonresident exemption. There is no Customs bond required, however, EPA requires that written approval must be obtained prior to importation.
Requirements:
œ Importer must file with U. S. Customs, upon entry, an EPA Form 3520-1 declaring code "O;" and attach the EPA letter of exemption.
œ Importer should keep a copy of the EPA approval letter for future proof of EPA exclusion.
Restrictions:
œ Importer must be a nonresident;
œ Vehicle may not be sold or otherwise transferred to another party in the U.S.;
œ Vehicle must be used primarily for personal use by the importer while in the U.S.;
œ Use of this exemption is prohibited if the vehicle is to be used primarily to conduct business, or for principle use by persons other than the importer (or spouse of the importer); and
œ Vehicle must be exported after one year, or upon the nonresident departing the U.S.,
whichever comes first.
Section 2: Other Import-Related Requirements and Information Page 33
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I have this in front of one of the shippers. I believe they are well versed in this and all this will be taken care of by the shippers, so not to worry owners who want to partake.
I got a link From Barrie Bird to a Roll on Roll off shipper with some of the best prices. I contacted them and am awaiting their reply. It all depends if they can assist with all the custom's clearance and paperwork as well and if they can pick up at multiple ports and drop off at the west coast...
Lots to consider.
Meanwhile suggestions keep pouring into my email inbox and ideas about the event are taking shape.
Keep checking!
Gus
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Gus
You may not be aware that the Frazer Nash owners are planning an A USA Bash to New England in 2013, they do quite a number of the overseas trips so you might be able to get some advice from them in respect to proceedures & organisation.
Robin
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Thanks Robin,
Would you have an email to someone?
Gus
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The chap I store may car with is the person organising the transportation for the F-N club. Interestingly the F-N boys will be arranging for a club member to be present for the loading and unloading. I think they will be using Roll-on/roll-off vessels for the shipping, the same system and vessels used by BMW, Merc and Mclaren etc for delivering new cars. The owner is David Smith and his website is http://www.autofreight.co.uk/
I have mentioned the topic to him a couple of weeks ago if you want to make direct contact or I’m happy to put you in touch.
John.
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yes I would. I am not bought into anyone at this point. The main issue we have is that we have owners from all over the continent. So arranging shipping from multiple ports is an advantage.
RoRo appears to be the easiest. It may not be the most cost effective and I feel that experience in dealing with customs and having all the paperwork done and ready would be very helpful. You don't want to arrive and get ready to take off, only to find out something was not done correctly and you're held up for a few days....
I'm awaiting a reply from the company Barrie forwarded to me as well.
I also asked for a better price from Rinkens.
Gus
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Gus
Paul Baker is the person who has made a survey of the trip visiting New England a short time ago, his contact details are
' paul_baker@ntlworld.com ' i am sure he will assist with information.
Incedentally Paul has one of my engines complete apart from Head & Cam Cover, but he is fitting my Competition Camshaft & Hi Lift Rockers, so expect him to be very fast in his F.N.
Robin
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Hi Gus,
This all sounds very exciting!
Looks like a company called AutoShippers arrange RoRo services between UK (Southampton or Bristol) and California (LA or Seattle). This service is, apparently, both widely used by car manufacturers and the cheapest service. It seems one can also drive ones own car to the port for loading - much like we do to get from UK to mainland Europe.
Their link is:
www.autoshippers.co.uk/Ro-Ro%20Ports.htm
Looks like there is some good general advice there too. Might be worth a try.
Please note too that people require documentation to get into USA. Requirements are heavily dependent upon ones nationality and status etc etc. For example, if ones country is part of the USA visa waiver programme the minimum requirement is a machine-readable passport with at least 6-months validity remaining, AND an electronic travel authorisation called an ESTA. Without BOTH one won't be allowed to board the aeroplane!
British Citizens with valid passports and eligable for a visa waiver can usually obtain ESTAs on line in minutes for US$10. per person and they are valid for 2 years. All you need is your passport number and credit card!
The following link worked for us:
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/application.html
This link is direct to the US Government ESTA application site. There is no need to use an agent or other intermediary!
Keep up the good work!
Best wishes
John
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Hello Gus,
RORO shipment means cars roll onto (into) and off the ship like we do here boarding a ferry. Hence cars travel unprotected. This method is used by car manufacturers however they solidly protect their cars before the shipment, by means of special wax applied, to protect from the salty atmosphere while on the ocean. Upon unloading, cars need be devaxed by high pressure water spray. This is a rather standard job and may work well on sedans or coupés, but I can't see this happen easily on an open top car.
Containerized shipment is more expensive but has the advantage that cars travel in closed containers and are hence protected from the salty atmosphere. I have been investigating with a Dutch company specialized in car transport from/to US/Canada.
Their quote for Rotterdam to LA (one way) in container shipment is 895 € / 1,098 $ (4 cars per container) or 1175 € / 1,440 $ (2 cars per container. Containers are specially designed for the purpose. Insurance (on top) is 2% of declared value for all risk with a 1,000 € deductible. This is quite expensive insurance. I need to get some more clarification on the rate for roundtrip and on the services included at port of destination.
Nonresident exemption for temporary import EPA needs to be granted individually per car to the owner beforehand through the EPA.
Will keep you posted.
Constant
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Re protection of cars, Constant raises an issue which is undoubtedly important to anyone considering joining this exciting trip.
It is interesting that AutoShippers claim that special protection is not required on their RoRo ships, as the cars are on internal decks. Containers on the other hand are often in very exposed positions on the upper (outside) deck.
John
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My idea was to see if there is an alternative to ship from mainland Europe, from a port easily accessible for members from northern France, Benelux countries, Germany.
Just received full complement of information from SCL Rotterdam.
Whereas at first glance the shipment looks attractive, local handling fees including customs clearance in LA ruin a bit the attractiveness.
Round trip from Rotterdam to LA and back sum up to 3,218 € (3,954 $) if 4 cars per container. This includes all handling, customs clearance etc charges. Insurance is not included. It might be good to see with our insurance experts to get global coverage for all cars, as insurance rates are very high.
Another remark regarding nonresident import exemption. A restriction is that a car can only be driven in the US by the owner or a close family member. Hence this implies that cars have to be collected from and returned to warehouse by the owner himself, and not by a third party. As a consequence, time for that will have to be allocated in our schedules.
Constant
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quote:
Originally posted by ACOCArch
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It is interesting that AutoShippers claim that special protection is not required on their RoRo ships, as the cars are on internal decks. .....
Maybe they are right."Secured in the hold, wind and water tight" under deck is effectively good enough without wax protection. We would need to find out from a customer having effectively used the service.
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Or have a body made of carbon fibre! [:)]
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It's not only the body, it's all other parts not necessarily protected by a resistant coating. Like hubs, brake calipers and rotors, suspension parts, engine parts etc
A friend of mine, race car preparer, usually advises to apply loads of WD-40, but I am not sure how this reacts with brake pads if the car is stored for a bit longer a period. This would also have to be applied just prior to loading. Roll on/off might become a bit tricky if brakes do not work properly as a consequence of being sprayed with an oily product. Maybe I am too careful?
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Unfortunately there is a problem with condensation in containers although most shippers will put in silica bags to keep the moisture down (works well in saloons of course).
Otherwise can Silver City make it across the Atlantic? [:)]
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/CRS9505/silvercity2.jpg)
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Otherwise can Silver City make it across the Atlantic?
(http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x380/jospr/1952Mitchell2-litreBristolFreighterEastleigh.jpg)
ACs are used to flying! Jack Mitchell and AC Two-Litre boarding Bristol Freighter Eastleigh 1952
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Autoshippers have declined to quote for RoRo shipping.
Have obtained a 1-way indicative quote for an AC 3000ME, US-UK. shipping in a container, as follows:
Shipping - US$1195
Insurance - 2% of declared value with US$1000 excess.
Service includes receiving at the local port warehouse, preparation of export condition report, export custom clearance, secure loading/blocking/bracing into a steel ocean container, transport of loaded container to departure port and ocean freight to destination port.
Taxes, Duties, Custom Inspections, Destination Customs Clearance, port charges, storage, unloading or delivery services are not
included in the quotation.
There are weekly departures to most destinations.
On that basis, and at $1.50/£, indicative costs for a return journey between London (Tilbury) and Long Beach, including insurance excluding arrival port charges would be:
AC 3000ME (Value £15K) - £2200.
AC Cobra MkIV (Value £100K) - £3600.
AC Cobra MkI/II (Value £250K)- £6600.
I would emphasise this is an indicative quote only and, as can be seen, insurance charges dominate for the higher valued cars. It may well be possible to negotiate better deals, in particular for a group, although insurance may still dominate.
Another quote has been requested from a second RoRo operator.
Cheers, John
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My experience of shipping a Cobra to the East Coast was back in 1981 and may be quite out of date; I went for a RoRo option which back then was very cheap (£200), the one aspect that caused trouble for me was that the underside of the car was subject to a high pressure wash. The result was that on day 2 of the east to west drive, one of the stiffening rods in the fuel tank let go and deposited 15 gallons of fuel into a multistory car park. It was repaired with 'goo' bought from a local garage. Two days later the other rod let go with a similar result and repair. I have no idea if this type of tank problem is common, but the pressure clean was the cuprit. Be warned if you have an origional tank.
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quote:
Originally posted by ACOCArch
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Shipping - US$1195
Insurance - 2% of declared value with US$1000 excess.
Service includes receiving at the local port warehouse, preparation of export condition report, export custom clearance, secure loading/blocking/bracing into a steel ocean container, transport of loaded container to departure port and ocean freight to destination port.
Taxes, Duties, Custom Inspections, Destination Customs Clearance, port charges, storage, unloading or delivery services are not
included in the quotation.
.....
John this is not the full picture. Initial quote I had received from SCL Rotterdam was similar. Expensive part is the import and handling into US and customs clearance.
Here is the full detail after I had gone to clarify all aspects. Cost is in € per car (given 4 cars per container)
ACOC - shipment of cars to LA
SCL Rotterdam 16/08/2012
€/$ 0.814
Total/car (excl. of insurance) 3,218
Rdam=> LA shipment (*) 895
THC USA 153
Container => warehouse 56
chassis fee 49
pier pass fee 24
unloading from container 163
Customs clearance 305
Handling office fee 20
Courier fee 10
LA => Rdam 1,038
unloading from container 395
Customs clearance 75
Handling charge 35
Insurance 2% of declared value (80 K€) = 2 x 1,600
(*)R'dam => LA shipment charge is including receipt at local port warehouse (R'dam), preparation of our NL export condition report, export Customs clearance, THC, AES Filing, BAF, WARFAGE, secure loading-blocking-bracing into ocean container, transport of loaded container to departure port and ocean freight to destination port.
Equally, LA => R'dam shipment charge includes all above.
As you can see, import to US is the more expensive bit.
What might still come on top is following:
"The amount above does not cover any US customs exams fee’s, x rays, if the container get’s pulled over and taken to a US customs bonded warehouse. If this is the case, the rates that US customs provides to us, will be apply to your shipment". This is like a negative lottery[}:)]
Plus: warehouse charges. Remember that only the owner is allowed to drive his car, hence cars cannot be taken out of warehouse immediately after arrival in the US, unless we are able to arrange for 100% matching travel schedules of shipments and passengers.
And then there is this heavy burden of insurance!
We have to dig further and see if any of that can be improved.
Constant
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Talking of INSURANCE - have just spoken to my broker who cannot insure me to drive my own car in the US (although I have complete coverage in most of Europe), apparently this has to be done through a US insurance broker.
Another potential major problem possibly requiring group coverage? Is there any news from the Morgan Club?
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Very brief reply to all the information posted here over the weekend. I was in Pebble Beach making contacts, besides getting sensory overload with all the cars and racing!
All of your work is very much appreciated and I will look at every suggestion/entry made. I would caution to post "alarming" threads, as I am sure it will all work out and in the end it will not be cost prohibitive.
RORO remains to be an option and cars are shipped below deck and not subject to Ocean spray. However my preliminary belief is that Container is the best option and so far I only have one shipper with extensive experience with specialty car shipping, paperwork etc, etc.
I did get full commitment from Jim Feldman, ACOC liaison USA, who has done every single California Mille. I met with Simon Taylor, who had his 2.6 Ace on the lawn at Pebble, I met with Hagerty insurance. Marc Dubost was at the ACOC dinner and spoke briefly with me. Jonathan Parker, who had his Ace on the lawn has made some great contacts and I overall come away from Pebble Beach with a feeling of great encouragement.
So, let me get my feet back on the ground again this week and work through my backlog of work and we will be full speed ahead on the International!
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Also, before we all do redundant work, let me for clarity's sake post again that I do have a $4000 quote for container shipping round trip. To the west coast, all paperwork and customs clearance work included. This shipper can ship from various ports in Europe (Hamburg, Rotterdam, etc) and UK to LA, Oakland and I believe Seattle.
I know Keith has every intention of having Bex333 go back to her old stomping grounds, so it may behoove him to return ship from Seattle.
Hagerty will contact me this week about insurance and assistance with events and sponsorship.
I had some nice conversation with Simon Taylor and I have his email, so hopefully Classic and Sports car will do a spread on the International.
In talking to most, the idea of centering around Monterey is met with great enthusiasm. We have plenty of opportunity to drive incredible roads both north and south of there. Jim Feldman will share his California Mille roadbooks, so we don't have to reinvent the wheel. Both Jim and Jonathan Parker indicated to me that the driving in Oregon is most spectacular, however the distance from Monterey maybe too much to handle during the International. As most have indicated they would like to go for 2 weeks, it would seem logical they move north after the "official" part of the international is done.
Gus
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The shipper I dealt with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9unBxyAl6TI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fIB2R8o55k
Gus
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Gus.
Whilst at the ACOC National Day ( Stoner Park) on Sunday 19th August, met up with many ACOC Members who enquired and discussed the Potential ACOC International in USA, 2013 or 2014, Some already have committments in 2013 so prefer 2014, others have conflict in 2014 with other events.
You cannot please them all. But in general the response on this side of the pond is favourable, subject to cost and hassle free transportation of our ACs.
( not asking a lot )
Bertie ( Brian Gilbart- Smith) The ACOC Chairman for 25 years or so and Hon President since 2005, Also Insurance Broker for majority of
ACOC Club members AC insurance.
He has over the past 12 months been ACtively invloved with assisting in/with the Frazer - Nash USA tour planned for 2013, could be worth having a few words reference group Transportation Insurance and overall costings.
We know AC owners in the UK and Mainland Europe can only insure our Cars for the USA trip via a USA Insurance Broker/Company,Impossible to get cover on this side of the pond, hopefully a group policy can be created to cover all vehicles at a special premium with one of your contacts - Sponsors..[?]
Just a idea, I know you are already on the matter so dont want to duplicate, but a word or email with Bertie could be constructive and posibly save time and money..[;)]
Glad you made contact with Jim Feldman, Simon Taylor, Jean Marc Dubost and Johnathan Parker, all great AC Guys who have years of AC experience and can contribute to making the ACOC International in USA come to fruition..[;)]
Please keep networking and posting developments...on the Forum and duplicted in ACtion.
Cheers for Now.
Keith..[:)]
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I note that Bill Bridges attended the 2012 Cobra Celebrations at Monterey, etc - perhaps he can offer some advice on transportation, insurances, bonds etc etc??
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3476/rmmr12to001753.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/rmmr12to001753.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
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Of course I saw his car out there, but I don't know him, nor would recognize him. I should have made an attempt at meeting him as well.
Does anyone have his contact info?
Gus
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Gus - I've sent you a "pm"
Regards, Bill Patterson
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quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
Of course I saw his car out there, but I don't know him, nor would recognize him. I should have made an attempt at meeting him as well.
Does anyone have his contact info?
Gus
GUS
Confirmed Bill and Carolines Bridges telephone numbers via email.
.Keith
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Thanks guys, got it.
Will make contact
Gus
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FYI – because of time constraints I don’t think Bill was able to take the most economic option to get the Hairy Canary to and from the US. In order to be back in time for the Goodwood Revival I believe the car is being air freighted home.
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quote:
Originally posted by cobham cobra
FYI – because of time constraints I don’t think Bill was able to take the most economic option to get the Hairy Canary to and from the US. In order to be back in time for the Goodwood Revival I believe the car is being air freighted home.
Such a nice bloke, and a great car, I think Bill likes yellow Cobras,as all his cars seem to have been yellow !! looking forward to seeing the Hairy Canary at the Revival !
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A couple of pictures of Bixby bridge on the pacific Coast highway. Something to look forward to when participating in the ACOC International USA!!
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p222/AEX674/61-AC_Ace-26_D-12-PBC_m05.jpg)
Simon Taylor in his 2.6 ACE
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p222/AEX674/60-AC_Ace-rdstr-DV-12-PBC_m02.jpg)
Jonathan Parker in his gorgeous Ace
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Gus.
Great to see that you have published information on the Prospective ACOC International USA, in ACtion, hopefully you get positive feed back and the event comes to fruition.[:p].
Can you please confirm provisional dates, To make it really worth while and cost effective Julie & I like many would extend our visit to say 15 / 21 days.
Have you any more information on group costing for :
4 cars per 40 ft container.
Insurance, pending AC model and Value. (Hagerty ? Sponsor ?)
and
Have you a running list of interested parties from UK, Mainland Europe & USA ..[?] If so, I will email a name or 2 of other interested ACOC members , who have yet to contact you..In the meantime can you email me the upto date list..[;)]
Will send seperate email direct.
Cheers for Now
Keith..[:)]
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Gus, I was talking to Malcolm Welford, at the Goodwood Revival. He is a partner of Morris and Welford historic car consultants in Cost Mesa California. He has been a friend for years and has a lovely black 289. He will be happy to help wherever he can, and thinks the West Coast International would be a great success! Andy.
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Gentlemen,
I am receiving emails confirming interest in participation as we speak. I will publish a list of all who are interested. I have been in communication with the shipper and Hagerty. I have proposed to have them ship 4 cars per container. They frequently do this. I assume the cost would become rather palatable if that is the case. I have spoken with Jim Feldman the other day, who forgot to send me the Mille miglia California road books and promptly promised me to do so. I also followed a suggestion from Jonathan Parker to involve a couple ot the California Cobra guys, as they have organized tours as well, one of which being the sort of figure 8 with Monterey being the center.
Keith, the tour would center around the Monterey week. I don't want to get ahead of myself, as I'd rather have a good feeling for how many parties are truly interested in going. I can tell you that at this point it appears I have about 10-12 parties interested, some of which have suggested they may bring two cars...
My idea is to publish a proposal for the route and sights to see along the route and confirm the shipping costs next. I expect to have this buttoned up before the end of September. Between that and email confirmations, I suppose it will be D-day and either move forward or not. I am encouraged by the amount interested thus far. If all these people show up and we attract a gaggle of USA based cars, it should be possible to have a tour with 25-30 cars.
Gus
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Steadily emails are coming in.
At this time I have roughly 20 people that have interest in the event. Most of those are from Europe.
Gus
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Gus, if possible there should be a deal of support from the U.S.A. and Canada - do you need to spread the word through the other clubs who cater for Cobras in N. America ?
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Barrie,
I have made contact with some of the Cobra guys as well.
I have not seriously pursued this yet, as I think the biggest hurdle is to make the Trip palatable for the European crowd.
Gus
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I hereby submit an update to the ACOC international developments.
As the month of September came to a close, I have received 28 replies confirming interest!
Andy Shepherd
Rob Fisher
Rob Krantz
Jonathan Parker
Robin Grove
Keith Lessiter
Robin Stainer
Charles Bishop
John Thompson
Iona and Barry Dickens
Matthew and Laraine Feltham
David Coleman
Bryan Moseley
John Lucke
Anita Hermanns and Heinz Vogel
Paul Staiger
Brendan Finn
Nick Eden
Mark Vorenkamp
Drew Serb
Bill Patterson
Constant Wagner
Jeffrey Jones
Marc Dubost
Barrie Bird
Peter Come
Ronald Mack
And myself, of course.
Interestingly, it appears most seem to be European members. I would like to make sure that all members on the North American Continent also know they are welcome and included and to please email me notifying their intent to partake.
I've been talking to many shippers and have received as many different quotes. Most recently I was introduced to Robin Grove via Keith Lessiter. Robin happens to be restoring her AC Bristol and happens to be a very experienced shipper of high end collector cars! She suggested we ship to LA, where her office is based. Members can than fly in to LAX, get a good night's sleep and collect their cars the next day and start the trek north. Taking a gander at Beverly Hills, Hollywood, Rodeo Drive and Santa Monica boulevard before exiting onto the pacific coast highway in Santa Monica. Just north you will drive through Malibu. Honestly speaking, the first section from Malibu to Cambria is best to be passed by as quick as possible. However, Cambria is a great little town on the Ocean with good Lodging options for a night stay over. The next day will be some of the most Fabulous driving you've done in your life: The Pacific Coast highway from Cambria to Carmel
Incredible views, undulating roads hugging the cliffs on the pacific, traveling through Big Sur
It is best to not take off early in the morning, as you will likely be shrouded in pacific fog. Later in the day the fog usually burns off and spectacular views can be taken in. Of note is that Hearst Castle is along the way and although it will delay you for several hours, it is worth stopping in.
In speaking to various members over the past 3 months and getting more suggestions than I know what to do with, it is evident that most feel the idea of spending some time around the Monterey Peninsula during the Pebble Beach extravaganza is a good idea.
I have the 2012 route book from the California Mille, which would have us loop North from Monterey to the wine country and Lake Tahoe, with some spectacular driving!!
Lodging is extremely expensive in and around Monterey during the Pebble Beach week. Hotels will charge as much as 6-7 times their normal rate and get away with it.
I have stayed in Gilroy (the Garlic capitol of the world is it's self proclaimed dubious note of fame). The Hilton Garden inn is on the south end of town, offers ample parking and has excellent facilities (check out their website online: http://hiltongardeninn3.hilton.com/en/hotels/california/hilton-garden-inn-gilroy-SJCGHGI/index.html
Pricing per room is very reasonable and it is only a 45 minute drive from the Monterey Peninsula. In my opinion an excellent base for 2 nights, while visiting Laguna Seca Raceway for the Rolex Historics and Pebble Beach Concourse d'Elegance.
From there it is 117 miles to San Francisco along the Pacific coast. It is from there that we tie into the routes as outlined by the California Mille. The tour would than take another 4 days and be broken up into palatable morning and afternoon sections for a total of approximately 200 miles per day.
Generally speaking lodging will be along the same trend as this Hilton Garden inn and cost between $100 and $150 per night, depending on location and availability. This typically includes a good breakfast. Hotel rooms generally are bigger than in Europe and rooms with 2 queen size beds could be split, in case members would choose to do so, further reducing expense.
The ACOC part of the tour will be 7 days: 2 at the peninsula for the car events. You'll be on your own as to what you decide you want to do and see. There are many different Concourse events, Auctions by all the Major international Auction houses, historic racing at Laguna Seca Raceway and of course the Pebble Beach Concourse d'Elegance. All of these have different prices attached to them.
Pebble Beach this year was $200
Laguna Seca for a day is $50
The Auctions usually charge $100 or more(or you can renew your membership to Classic and Sports car during one of the events and get a complimentary entry to the Gooding Auction at Pebble Beach)
Dining and Lunches will vary in cost, depending on how extravagant one wants to be. Excellent dinner meals can be had for anywhere from $20-50 per person including drinks. Lunch can be had for as little as $5 to $20 for a great lunch.
Many members have indicated to me they would like to come over for a total of 2-3 weeks. With the above numbers you ought to be able to give yourself a reasonable estimate on what your budget for that trip would be.
Robin's concern is the cost involved with the Pebble Beach week. My concern is cost of shipping. I have various quotes and Robin will look into it as well, as this is her business. She also was kind enough to offer her help in offering options for a "southern" route with attractions such as the Palos Verdes Concourse d'Elegance and track time at Willow Springs. As soon as a firm quote is on the table I will post it on the Forum as well as updating through the ACtion.
Time line suggestion: Cars will have been shipped and are cleared and in warehouse by the time drivers arrive in LA.
August 14th: Arrival of Members at LAX, rest and recover from flights
August 15th: Collect Cars at holding warehouse in AM and drive from LA to Cambria, 220 miles
August 16th: Drive Cambria to Gilroy along the Pacific Coast highway with stop over in Carmel and/or at Hearst Castle, 145 Miles
August 17th and 18th: Stay at Gilroy Hilton Garden inn and visit events of Monterey Peninsula
August 19th: Drive Gilroy to Lodi, along Pacific Coast Highway, through San Fransisco, passing over the Golden Gate Bridge, 225 miles
August 20th: Drive Lodi to Lake Tahoe, 155 miles
August 21st: Drive around Lake Tahoe and up to Reno and back to Lake Tahoe, 190 miles
August 22nd: Drive Lake Tahoe to Calistoga, 236 miles
August 23rd: Drive Calistoga to Bodega bay back to Calistoga 200 miles.
All drives will be broken up in a reasonable morning and afternoon session.
This concludes the "official" tour. Members can decide on their own to continue from there.
Shipping can be arranged to and from LA or other ports, such as Oakland (San Francisco). Anything is possible, even airfreight. It all depends on how much you are willing and able to afford.
Please keep suggestions, questions and announcements of interest to partake coming to my email inbox!
Meyjes@chartermi.net
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Following are hotel suggestions based on the above mentioned tour suggestions as I found online:
August 19th: http://www.hotels.com/hotel/details.html?pa=1&pn=1&ps=1&tab=description&destinationId=1473225&searchDestination=Stockton&hotelId=307461&arrivalDate=08-19-13&departureDate=08-20-13&rooms[0].numberOfAdults=2&roomno=1&validate=false&previousDateful=false&reviewOrder=date_newest_first
August 20st and 21st:http://www.hotels.com/hotel/details.html?tab=description&hotelId=123827&arrivalDate=08-20-13&departureDate=08-22-13&rooms[0].numberOfAdults=2&validate=false&previousDateful=false&reviewOrder=date_newest_first
August 22nd and 23 rd: http://www.hotels.com/hotel/details.html?pa=21&pn=1&ps=21&tab=description&destinationId=1409892&searchDestination=Calistoga&hotelId=276422&arrivalDate=08-22-13&departureDate=08-23-13&rooms[0].numberOfAdults=2&roomno=1&validate=false&previousDateful=false&reviewOrder=date_newest_first
Prices range from $99 to $134 per night.
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quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
....
Please keep suggestions, questions and announcements of interest to partake coming to my email inbox!
Meyjes@chartermi.net
Hi Gus,
Tried a couple of times yesterday to push something into your mailbox.
My systems keeps reporting non-delivery.
Please check
Thanks
Constant
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Wow Gus, you have been busy! I like all I see, and will doubtless be speaking to various "AC Tourists" to make sure we are all pulling together. The Council Meeting in London is this Thursday 25th Oct, and it will certainly be discussed. Any information on or off the record about whole cost and timescale to ship to and from LA would be useful for budgeting. You are doing a great job, and I can't wait to see the project develop. Thanks from this end, Andy.
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Many thanks go out to our newest ACOC member, Robin Grove. She recently signed on and has been in touch with Tony Bancroft about her Ace Bristol.
Robin was introduced to me by Keith Lessiter and she has done a fabulous job making sense of the quotes I have been soliciting and receiving over the past several months.
Please see her email to me laying it all out below. In all of my conversations with people that have had personal experience with shipping their cars to and from Europe, I can attest that these estimates are about as close as can be. Please note that these quotes are per car.
This should give everyone a very good idea on the overall expense. Next on my list now is to see about sponsorship. I'm hoping to attract some sponsors that can help offset some of these expenses. Hagerty insurance comes to mind, as I have spoken with them and they appear interested in being part of the International and they could help offset insurance cost.
As of today I have 32 parties interested in the USA international!!
Hi Gus,
I have gone over the numbers, Please find the updated quotation:
Guidelines- Cars Valued at $75,000- $200,000- should consider the 4 pack
$201,000-$350,000- should consider the 2 pack
Over $350,000.00 should consider Air Freight
**These are guidelines only. Final decision per the discretion of the owner.
**Insurance Round Trip-
#1) Marine Transit Insurance “All Risks” subject to a 1000bp excess/deductible per transit = 1% of the insured value
#2) Marine Transit Insurance “Total Loss” only for roundtrip cover no excess/deductible = .5% of the insured value.
*** Personal effects stowed into the car can only be insured on a “Total Loss” basis and only on the basis the car is los in transit- a separate value declaration will be required.
*** Please also note, that shipping personal effects should be kept to a minimum, no alcohol or hazardous items will be allowed. Packing items will need to be reviewed prior to shipping.
Below Calculations for transport based on the following vehicle size-
Length-3848mm/151.5” x Width- 1511mm/59.5” x Height 1245mm 49” - Wheelbase 2286mm/90” GW 885kg/1950 #= 1 position lower deck ** subject to airline acceptance.
Cars UK/Loa- Delivered to Cars UK whse or designated airline- Collection, if requested would be additional and subject to the collection address.
Import $2550.00 based on a 2 pack**
$2000.00 based on a 4 pack**
Airfreight $7700.00 1 position lower deck
$10,200. 2 position lower deck
**Rates include-export loading blocking and bracing, export customs clearance, airline security clearance, airline handling & R/A fee.
US customs Clearance, port fees, unloading of container, port fees, temporary import customs clearance.
**For sea containers, customs exams, IF required, not included- Please consider $50.00-$200.00 estimated, and will be charged, only if required by us customs.
Export
Ocean freight $2650.00 based on a 2 pack**
$2050.00 based on a 4 pack **
Airfreight $9500.00
**Rates include-export loading blocking and bracing, export customs clearance, airline security clearance, airline handling & R/A fee.
UK customs Clearance, port fees, unloading of container, Airline security fees and customs clearance for re-entry into the UK.
**odd numbers of cars- How will the ship back and what is the time frame for return.
**Line/ Happag Lloyd/Maersk- t/t to the US 28 days/ return 34 days. Loading /unloading customs clearance on both sides 1-2 weeks. Airfreight 3-4 days.
I’ve been checking on some hotels, and I think for $300.00 per day, we will be set for hotels + one meal per day. Leaving some budget for the end send off dinner.
I was also wondering if a “support mechanic” along for the road would be a good idea. I’m sure that if we can sponsor the hotels, it could be a thought.
Please let me know what you think, and when you have a moment to chat.
The rates above, should remain pretty close, but there could be some changes by next year.
Talk to you soon,
Robin
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Thanks Robin, I have read your post above, and if I were to choose my Mk IV Cobra, can you help me calculate the bottom line cost? value of car is approx $150k so I assume the 4 pack container. Do I understand that makes roughly $2000 each way? Then insurance at 0.5% of $150k = $750 for the basic total loss, or 1% = $1500 for All Risks with a $1000 excess. Also allow, say $200 worst case for Customs. I also assume we Foreigners will require Motor Insurance whilst in the USA. Perhaps $300? For the main event 7 Hotel nights at $300 a couple = $2100, and a further say 7 nights in motels when going off piste? another $1500. Fuel at 12 gallons per day at $4.00 = $700, and with food and spending money another $1400. 2x Airline tickets $2000. So for a budget, approx $13000. Does that sound about right for the 2 of us? Andy.
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Shep,
I am receiving additional information at this time. I have contacted various parties for sponsorship. Hagerty issued an insurance quote, which I intend to post soon after I speak with their rep for clarification on a couple of matters. I also am working on still getting better pricing on shipping. It may actually get to as low as $2500 per car, round trip if we ship 4 per container and there is a discount for higher quantities in case we get 24 cars minimum. At that point the quote maybe reduced by another several hundred dollars, I'm told. I am awaiting a final detailed quote right now.
I'm going out on a limb here and state that at 4 cars per container the overall cost, including insurance for transport and road going in the USA would be around $4500-$5000. This is A LOT BETTER than reported before. Any bit of sponsorship can further help offset expenses. I would encourage any owner with an interest in participating to assist in obtaining sponsorship. I'm hoping to attract media (TV) attention as well and I have a request into Jay Leno to see if he would receive the participants and their vehicles at his facility in Los Angeles as well...
Stay tuned for more information!!
Gus
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sounds very encouraging Gus..
good work
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Gus
Further to our series of email re: potential sponsors, I take this opportunity to thank you for your time and effort, especially in trying to reduce overall costs to / for all the interested ACOC members on this side of the pond. Much appreciated.[;)].
Wishing you a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year.
Look forward to meeting you and our USA/Canadian ACOC Members at The International (USA) in August 2013.
Keith..[:)]
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Thanks Keith!
More news soon to follow!
Gus
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Please stay tuned closely in the next few weeks.
This is make or break time. I'm awaiting the Official final quote from CFR. Robin Grove, who works with CARS UK will see if she can match this quote. I have 3 sponsors interested in participating and I have a number of emails out asking for sponsorship that have not been returned yet. I also wrote Octane and Classic and Sports Car as well as Simon Taylor, who kindly offered his help in generating interest from CS&C. I asked my marketing company to put a digital design together for Roundels/ meatballs to show the names of the sponsors as well as AC owners club International, California, USA, 2013 to be put on all participating cars. I don't want to disclose names of sponsors without a firm agreement, but it looks very promising. I do not expect sizable amounts, but every little thing helps.
As soon as my next update in the February ACtion will be published, I need a tally of serious contenders and I will set up an account under a NON-Profit for deposits to be made. D-day will show who's going or not.... At that point I will recruit the help from the California clan for hotel bookings and I will move forward with putting road books together.
Owners need to, at that point contact each other and connect with the shipper in order to get their shipments set up and coordinated. (4 per container means you need to all be there... )
Jim Feldman will have a 428 on the field at Pebble Beach, I believe.
I'm still hoping and looking for more stateside participants. Where are you guys?
I looked at the seasonal weather averages for the countryside we will be touring. It is absolutely fabulous. Virtually no chance of rain, average daytime temperatures ranging in the mid sixties to mid seventies in Monterey, 90 in wine country, 75 at Lake Tahoe and 82 in Calistoga... Sure, it could be cooler or hotter and it could rain.... not very likely though!
Happy motoring in sunny California! Bring your sunscreen...
That's it for now. Please, contact potential sponsors or pass them along to me...
Gus
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Get a little flavor by checking out photos of the California Mille
http://bringatrailer.com/2013/01/02/starting-2013-right-new-years-anti-football-run/
Gus
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I just hung up the phone with the Hagerty rep with regards to an insurance quote on the tour. I am awaiting the final quote from the shipper and I just reminded him kindly to get on it. There will be a quote on insurance from them as well.
I have a call coming up with Hagerty on sponsorship coming Tuesday. BRM (watch company) and Suixtil (vintage style apparel) are interested in sponsoring, but none of these three are willing to throw money at the event. It will be in the form of goodies, gadgets and gear.
BRM is willing to design a special edition commemorative watch so long we have 10 takers minimum. They will offer this at a large discount as part of their "sponsorship". If one has had any interest in buying one of these high end watches, this would be an opportunity to pick a unique one up at a large discount. Other small items can be done as well, such as cufflinks.
http://www.brm-manufacture.com/index.html
Suixtil would offer their garments at a large discount with a commemorative embroidery.
http://www.suixtil.com/
Personally I'm a fan of these brands. High quality and in tune with the historic racing... Which is why I thought of them having an interest in sponsoring possibly.
I have another 4-5 emails out to companies to ask for sponsorship. I'm afraid money will be difficult to get in order to support the event. But I'll keep trying.
I did spend a good 6 hours last sunday going over the road book and figuring how to best work the logistics and seeing about availability for lodging. I'd like to make sure that we do not re-locate every night. Less hassle and less carrying suit cases. Plus, if someone decides they like to not drive that day, but go visit a winery for example, this would facilitate that.
At this time it looks like we'll be covering about 1900 miles in 9 or 10 days. That is including the drive from LA to Monterey and back. I will post detailed road book soon. After Monterey the North central California part of the trip will be roughly 1000 Miles.
From all of your feedback it appeared most, if not all of you were keen on being around Monterey for a couple days. If that is not the case, it would cut down considerably on miles and also some on cost, as hotels are far and few in between during that week and prices are up.
Shep's estimate sounds very reasonable for Hotel costs per diem, even including meals. Good lodging can be found anywhere from $115-200 per night, depending on location and date. From all of you I understood you're not looking for high end resorts in the $400-500 range...
That's it for now. More to follow.
Gus
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I am very happy to announce that at this time I have a firm quote that appears to be the best possible for Shipping from the UK (Thamesport) to LA. Cars will be shipped by CFR Rinkens with their special container racking system as 4 cars per container. Warehousing, loading, unloading and warehousing in LA as well as the round trip shipping will be handled by CFR at a price of $2500 roundtrip. Robin Grove with LOA brokering will act as the agent and customs broker.
Customs fee will be $150, Bond will be $75 and additional fees may apply if there will be inspections, although it is expected to be unlikely.
Insurance costs are .0083% per $1000 by the shipper and Hagerty quoted me as well.
Hagerty's quotes are approximately as follows for transport insurance.
Car value:
$70.000; $500 deductible: $750 cost
$150.000; $500 deductible: $1400 cost
$200.000; $750 deductible; $1870 cost
$500.000; $1000 deductible: $3350 cost
This is all risk coverage.
For on the road insurance in the USA they quoted roughly $1600 for a $500.000 car which should cover roughly 2500 miles.
There will be a 10% discount applied in case there are more than 10 cars.
So there you have it! One should be able to approximate on an individual basis what the expense for this adventure would be.
I will tell you it has been quite a frustrating experience trying to get to these numbers!
Next is to get a firm tally of who still wants to go and to take deposits to that extent so that I can block rooms in the hotels. Also, I'd like to hear from you all how important the Pebble Beach events are as part of this trip. Being there for the weekend ads considerably to the cost as well as hotel and driving logistics are considerably more complex. But certainly doable.
I have a list of people who gave me their initial pledge of interest. I will email you all. If you're jumping in at this time, please email me ASAP at Meyjes@chartermi.net
Please also keep track of the Forum for updates. I will forward contact information for shipping on the forum.
Regarding insurance, please contact rick@hagerty.com personally. Let him know you are contacting him with regards to the ACOC tour organized by me. Be aware that in order to establish insurance on your vehicle for this trip it will take some time, so do not procrastinate.
Lastly I want to mention that obtaining sponsorship has been difficult. Hagerty has been kind to offer a support truck, which should make dragging luggage around a lot less hassle. BRM watch company will produce a commemorative watch at 50% of retail in case there are a minimum of 10 orders, they will also throw in some trinkets. And Suixtil classic racing wear will produce a commemorative garment for the event at a substantial discount.
Nobody wants to throw money at the event. Many more requests have been sent out to no avail.
If you are a mover and shaker in your place of employment, I ask you see if you can have your company part with some cash!
That is it for this ACtion update. Please keep track on the Forum.
Cheers, Gus
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good shot Gus!! Many thanks for your efforts. We appreciate that.
So this sums up to some 12.000 $ for 14 nights for a couple in a Mk IV Cobra, taking Andy's earlyer estimations on accommodation and other spendings. We from the Continent would have to add another 1.200 $ or so for bringing the car to Thamesport and back to home.
Good idea to have incorporated the support truck.
Will discuss with my co-pilot and my banker [;)]
Cheers
Constant
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Gus..
Thank you for pursuing our goal of a ACOC National on your side of the Pond for 2013 and obtaining best possible shipping costs and insurance.
Must sit down and carefully cost the event, the shipping cost is now more palatable, all risk insurance... yeh..
Road insurance of $1600 / £1000 for 15 days on USA roads is bloody steep, I use BEX333 some 5000 miles per year with 4 drivers on policy and a agreed value of £175K ( $280K ) and only £274 for 12 months inc legal fees...[:0]..[V]..
Why is road insurance in USA so high[?] ..surely you don't pay such crazy rates..[?] at these rates I calculate you would be paying $27000 per year.. No Way !!
Seriously, studying overall costs. Let you know very soon.
Thank you once again for all your time and effort, appreciated by us all.
Keith...[;)]..[:)]
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Hi Keith,
No I do not pay those rates... But don't kill the messenger. The hagerty insurance guy is happy to discuss this with you, his email is in the update.
At the current rate for transport, it appears it will cost more to ship a car from Michigan to LA round trip than from the UK!!
Gus
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Gus.
Don't take it the wrong way, Fully appreciative of all you are doing to make this International happen.
The shipping etc is great, but the road insurance seems exceptionally high for just three weeks driving my Ace Bristol in USA, I will follow up with Hagerty.[;)]..[;)]
Keep you posted, along with other potential participants.
Cheers
Keith..[:)]
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I Stay silent until then, looking also for overall cost... but what a great job, Gus!
unfortunately, it seems a bit too expensive to me (at least this year), even though I'd love to bring AK1113 back to home and visit West coast ( I've only been once to east coast)... but once again, the quality/price ratio seems very good (if I compare it to a Tour Auto week, for example, which is a great but expensive event) !
could it be possible, as a consolation prize, to acquire the commemorative BRM watch (french made [;)], even though not present at the event ?
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PS: what would be the deadline for the go/no go decision ?
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Hi guys,
The insurance is prohibitive, No arguments from me. I bet there is room for negotiation.
If this whole thing goes through or not, present or not, I am pretty sure BRM will do the watch, as long as we have 10 takers minimum. It will have to go through me, so anyone with serious interest, please let me know. I am interested myself... That's 20%.
As a side note: we can make this all happen this year, but there would be no shame in postponing it. All the leg work is done. It was a learning curve for me, but it would be no big deal to allow another year for members to set money aside.
Regarding BRM, they will design a watch commemorative of the event. Sadly, we seem to have some issues with our beloved AC logo.
It just seems wrong to not use the true AC lettering, if we're going to invest in a nice time piece. I can contact Lubinsky, to see if he would be willing to allow the use of the logo just for this special event. But I don't know how discussions are coming along between Shep and him. I know I've never had anything but reasonable conversation with him. (let's not get THAT kind of discussion going again here)
Realistically the true expense of shipping will be some $2800. That is cheap by any standard. Simon Taylor paid $10.000 to get his car to Pebble Beach last year. If the insurance can be controlled better, it would be very palatable. I will shoot Rick at Hagerty an email.
Gus
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French Frie,
First of all I want to get a serious headcount. I've had as many as 32-35 members emailing me with interest to partake. If the vast majority drops out, I am not willing to take all the time and expense it takes to make this thing happen. My primary motivation personally is to meet all of you, whom I've had emails and Forum discussions with. You all seem to be a great group of people with a common passion. Nothing motivates me more, than to have us all together and enjoy fabulous driving, weather and events. But if out of 35, only 5-10 commit, I might pull the plug. This is a BIG commitment for everyone and it only will be a BIG experience, if all of us are there.
So, in answer to your question: headcount first and money down by the end of February. So I'd say by the first week of March you need to have fully committed or let me know you're out.
Gus
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Gus, it might be worth your while getting in touch with Alan Lubinsky regarding using the logo on your watches, he gave us the OK to use the logo on the stand materials for the 3000ME stand at the NEC CLassic Car Show last November.
Jeremy.
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Excellent, thanks for the heads up on that!
Gus
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Do you want to use the 'AC' logo, or the ACOC logo with AC script?
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Nik,
I emailed Lubinsky. I want to be able to use AC logo for the wear, watch and Decals for on the car.
See what happens.
Gus
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Below is the reply from Rick Worm, representative for Hagerty on my inquiry into the expense of insurance:
Hello Gus:
I have not had any inquiries so far (that I have talked to myself). With regards to our visiting collector’s coverage program rates, this is a special program designed to accommodate visitors who may or may not be familiar with our road systems, traffic laws, etc. This presents a higher exposure to any insurance company that offers this type of coverage, and the premiums are set based on this, which also takes into consideration past loss ratio history with this program, which is much higher than the standard annual USA policies we offer for USA residents.
The same exact situation applies for our clients traveling to Europe for a short term tour (similar minimum premium for the same reasons). Rates are approved and filed with the insurance commissioners taking all of this into account. So while I can understand the concerns about premium, our ability to offer this coverage to visitors is tied to the rates we charge, and are very competitive with others who offer this coverage.
There may be cheaper options out there (such as Geico Overseas), however I am not sure what coverage they provide (such as ACV vs. guaranteed value). Unfortunately, we are not able to offer lower rates for this program, however.
Feel free to contact me with any questions.
Best regards,
Rick
Rick Worm, API >> PCS Overseas Account Specialist >> Hagerty Private Client Services
P: 231.922.8843 F: 231.941.8227 E: rick@hagerty.com
WWW.HAGERTY.COM | 141 RIVER'S EDGE DR., SUITE 200, TRAVERSE CITY, MI 49684
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GUS
OK, I will put my head above the parapet, Julie and I have requested insurance details from Rick Worm of Hagerty to use my 1957 LHD Ace Bristol. BEX333 for the ACOC USA International in August 2013 .[;)]
Agreed value in UK & Europe £175K, We wish to join ACOC International for a week then travel up through San Francisco and Seattle and subject to time up to Vancouver. 3 weeks. then ship Ace back to UK.
Gus copied in on email to Rick (Hagerty)
Will let everyone know response, Cost and Cover etc, In the meantime I will also speak to Brian (Bertie) Gilbart-Smith as BEX333 is insured via him and I believe he is associated with Hagerty... [;)]
Keith..[:)]..[:)]
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Hi.
Waiting for Full risk Road Insurance quotation from Rick Worm of Hagerty.
In the meantime I have spoken to " Bertie" Brian Gilbart Smith who confirms that road insurance can only be negoiated with a US broker, so must wait for quote from Hagerty.
Regards Shipping Insurance, he can offer ultra competitive price if we block book with him. If i heard him correctly he should be able to save us about 40/50%, will arrange to get more details, for those interested, I dont mind collating and ACting as go between with you and Bertie hence group price.
Getting near DECISION TIME......[;)]..[;)]
Cheers
Keith[:)].
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Wednesday 30th January 2013.
For those still pondering the costs of the ACOC USA International,
I have received the following from Rick Worm of Hagerty:-
Hello Keith:
Thank you for your email regarding short term touring insurance while in the USA. I apologize for the delay in responding- your email landed in my Barracuda Spam folder for an unknown reason. Based on past communication with Gus, we have agreed to offer coverage for the ACOC tour event to those who qualify (acceptable driving records, vehicles, etc). We generally look for tours of less mileage, however reviewing the planned journey within California, we feel comfortable with this. I mention this as your details below indicate some additional pleasure driving aside from the tour (Seattle, etc).
Our carrier guidelines limit this coverage to well organized shows, group tours, and similar events, though additional local pleasure driving is acceptable (such as in the general region on your own). We would likely not want to see long distance additional driving outside of the tour, however.
As for insurance coverage on your particular AC, converting to the GBP 175,000 to USD would be about $280,000 value. So using $280,000 as the Guaranteed Value, based on today's rates, a ballpark quote would be roughly $600 with a $1,500 deductible (excess). This will provide full coverage while in the USA:
-Liability limits of $100,000 per person up to $300,000 per accident.
-Property damage liability limit of $20,000 (examples would be hitting a fence, sign, or building) -Other than collision coverage (such as hitting a deer, theft, fire) with a $1,500 deductible (excess) -Collision coverage (accidents while driving) with a $1,500 deductible (excess)
For overseas shipping coverage:
-Shipping via container ship round trip: $1,840 with a $750 deductible for all-risks coverage through Lloyd's.
If you fly the car, please advise and I'll get a rough ballpark for those rates (lower).
Please keep in mind that these are rates based on today's' program rates. As I believe this is possibly happening late summer, we would not be able to provide formal quotes until late June. However, I do not anticipate any major rate changes (slight if any).
Finally, while the USA coverage rates are set, we may be able to obtain a discount for the shipping coverage if we have a large group of vehicles insured (around 10% normally). This is subject to approval from our Lloyd's broker and assuming satisfactory shipping arrangements.
Feel free to contact me with any questions along the way.
Best regards,
Rick
Rick Worm, API >> PCS Overseas Account Specialist >> Hagerty Private Client Services
P: 231.922.8843 F: 231.941.8227 E: rick@hagerty.com WWW.HAGERTY.COM | 141 RIVER'S EDGE DR., SUITE 200, TRAVERSE CITY, MI 49684 .
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GOOD NEWS.....As you see the Cost of road insurance is considerably less than initially stated..[:)]
Will check into All Risk / Total loss Transit Insurance, As Bertie could well give same cover but possibly substantially reduce overall price. .. .. on TO DO LIST. Thursday am..[;)]
Hopefully the above is of interest to all those seriously considering this once in a life time trip.
Cheers
Keith ..[:)]
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Had a little time to digest some of Rick Worms ( Hagerty) reply to Insurance cover for the ACOC International.
Generalisation of USA / Americans the term LITIGATION comes to mind.
Julie and I have queried the poultry sum covered for Liabilities limit of $100K per person and £300K per Accident.[:0]
Am I wrong in thinking that Third Party cover should be multi million, [?][?] especially in good old USA.
Copy of email to Rick
Rick
Thank you for your prompt positive reply, The Road cover of budget $600 is much appreciated against initial figure of $1600.
Can you please elaborate regards Liability Limits $100,000 per person, $300,000 per accident.
In the UK third party cover tends to be in millions, With USA and generalisation LITIGATION comes to mind and the poultry figure of $100.000 seems insignificant. Not being Funny, just concerned that a incident in USA would require two, three or four million dollar third party cover.
Or was there simply a typing error and a few Zeros were omitted ?
Julie & I would appreciate more detail to put our minds at rest....
Thanking you in anticipation
Regards
Keith Lessiter
Awaiting written reply from Rick of Hagerty. ..[;)]
Keith..[:)]
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Thursday 31st January 2013
Response from Rick.
Hello Keith:
The $1,600 figure was for a higher value vehicle (If I remember correctly, Gus gave me a rough value range of possible participating vehicles).
As for the liability limits- $100,000 is the maximum we would pay for damages to any one person if you were at fault in an accident, up to a maximum of $300,000 per accident. So, if you caused an accident in which the other car had 3 occupants, each suffering $90,000 in damages, they would each be paid the full amounts. If the other car had say 2 occupants suffering a total of $400,000 in damages, we would pay the maximum of $300,000 for this one accident. Now if you have really bad luck and have another at-fault accident a mile down the road, you start over having the $100,000 per person/$300,000 per accident available. Of course we don't recommend having another accident a mile down the road, but just to give you an example.
The limits are quite low compared to what you are used to in the UK. However, believe it or not, they are quite a bit more than the required state minimum limits of $25,000 per person/$50,000 per accident. It's very uncommon for most in the USA to carry more than $1,000,000, with the majority carrying $500,000 or less (you'd be surprised how many people carry only the state required minimums). Many people carry "umbrella" policies here to go over and above their auto policy limits, however (this is not something we offer).
Hope that helps, and let me know if you need anything else.
Best regards,
Rick
Hopefully the last few posts have helped answer questions and help those still calculating finances for this event..[;)]
Keith..[:)]
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Hi Gus.
Took phone call this evening from Dave Coleman and Ian (MK1V Lightweight), they are seriously interested in joining Julie and I (Ace Bristol, BEX333) in travelling across the pond for this somewhat expensive once in a life time ACOC USA International.
Really need another couple of ACs prepared to share a 40 ft 4 car container from UK to LA and return three weeks later to UK.
If there is no or little response, Is the event On or Off?
Sorry to be so direct, appreciate it is a very expensive trip/holiday for those from UK and Mainland Europe and a lot of time and effort has been spent by you in preparation, but with the lack of committment from other ACOC members, I have to ask.. .. .. is it On or Off.[?]
Or is it to be put back to 2014/2015..[?]
Gus have you had any positive feed back/committment from any one else on my side of the Pond.
Hoping for GOOD NEWS..[;)]
Keith ..[:)]
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Keith,
It is one more week until the end of February. I believe the UK and Europe gets their copy of ACtion about a week or ten days ahead of us. I have had Bill Patterson send me an email cancelling his interest. I have not heard one iota from anyone else. I'm afraid that the high cost of the trip is turning people off.
I think and hope I've been clear on the suggested plans, dates and costs and asked that I receive confirmation of interest by the end of this month and I would start taking "money down" to secure that interest. At this time no one has done sofar.
Interest from the USA is marginal at best.
In all honesty, I think we'll have to can this trip for now and postpone to another year, with more time to plan and save up funds. At least I have learned a lot about the shipping and insurance part of this and it should therefore be a lot less work to pick up the thread next time around.
Gus
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Hi Gus,
I just sent you a message by e-mail on this.
Constant
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Gus..
If The ACOC US International is put back a year or two..[:(] please count me in. Maybe it could be run in months of September/October when it is a little cooler..[8D] kids are back at school and tourist rates are back to norm.[;)]
On behalf of many AC Owners on this side of the Pond.... A BIG THANK YOU for spending many hours preparing routes, negotiating Insurance and shipping, really appreciated, Rest assured your time and effort has not been wasted as hopefully you reschedule for 2015 ..[?]
Keep us all Posted...[;)]
Keith ..[:)]..[:)]
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Hi Gus, I am sorry if I have been one of the silent majority! I have been watching the progress of your project, and hoping someone would come up with the right numbers to make the trip possible. I have always dreamed of driving up the West Coast from LA to San Francisco in an open AC. I still want to do it, but must admit that the logistics and costs have proved to be a barrier. Please don't give up on the idea, as there is a lot of interest from over here, but somehow we need to be clever at shipping the cars more economically. The alternative is to have someone else pay, as happens with Goodwood Revival cars. For the moment I will have to be content with my dreams, but one day I still want them to come true. Thanks for all your hard work, Andy.
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Hi Gus - I've emailed you twice, on 2 Feb and yesterday. Is it possible that some emails are being caught by a spam filter?
Bryan
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Hi all,
I will keep all the info filed and if in the future there is a desire to do this again, it will be a lot easier process to go through. I doubt that shipping will be much better, as I pretty much got the price down to one fourth of what most pay. However, east coast driving is fabulous as well and may offer lower rates. Personally I was put off by the insurance cost and felt that this was outrageously high. I can't imagine containers getting lost at sea and drivers cracking up their classics at such an incredible rate that insurers have to mitigate their risk by asking stratospheric prices for a 3 week vacation. But, if they all do it, it is hard to get a better deal.
I would very much like to hear from you all in the future and in case there is sufficient interest, I'll be more than happy to put out the effort to organize.
Bryan, I did get your second email. For some reason the first one did not come through.
Best regards everyone. Hope to meet you all one of these days.
Gus
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Many thanks for your efforts Gus. We all do appreciate what you have put together. Hope it will work out one day.
Constant
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Thank you, Gus. You made a valiant effort.
Maybe it would be possible to gather a smaller, a less daunting conclave of AC's living in North America. No insurance worries, and very reduced transport cost.
Pebble Beach in 2013 or 2014?
Fantasy Junction has - on rare occasions - had cars they were willing to "lend/lease".Only cars they actually own. Nothing like the one below - I'm afraid all AC's are now too valuable to
"lend".
http://www.fantasyjunction.com/cars/1246-AC%20-Ace%20Bristol-2.0%20Litre%20Inline%206-Cylinder
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Gus,
Thank you for all your hard work and especially your enthusiasm for a Westcoast ACOC tour.
I agree with J. Jones comment suggesting a gathering of North American AC owners and hopefully some UK and EU members mixing in with hired Hertz Mustangs etc as the cost of transport and insurance seemed to be the stumbling block.
Don't close the file!
Jonathan Parker,
Vancouver
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Gus.
Have been following the thread with keen interest over the months and would like to add my thanks to you for all the work you have done on this.
Like Shep, I have been one of the silent majority. Would be very interested in joining a trip in 2014 or 2015 as this would allow sufficient notice to manage it around work commitments.
Would most likely bring my car over - along with some camera equipment that hopefully could allow me to get a few half decent snaps of the proceedings.
Lets hope we get to meet at some stage.
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Likewise,
I am not the least bit turned off by this. I hope we can all meet some time and the work done will go towards future efforts. Maybe I should revert the process by enticing the American contingent to ship their cars and visit the UK and we all could meet at the Goodwood revival?
Gus
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Jonathan,
Your enthusiasm has been infectious! I'm convinced one of these years we'll get the whole thing going. What do you think about us going east and drive our cars in their birth country and have a few lukewarm beers to go with that?
Gus
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I think you mean "Beer that has flavor" Gus......(and I even spelt 'flavour' incorrectly for you)
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you can have the best of both worlds (cold beer with flavor) when we meet up all together in germany :-) but unfortunately we have no Goodwood Revival
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I think I'll stick with flavourful cold German beer... Anyone who names his beer the Bishop's finger cannot be trusted...
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quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
Jonathan,
Your enthusiasm has been infectious! I'm convinced one of these years we'll get the whole thing going. What do you think about us going east and drive our cars in their birth country and have a few lukewarm beers to go with that?
Gus
Hey Gus. Interesting that you mention going the other way around. I am currently looking into the feasibility of shipping my Mk IV over to England for the 2013 Pyrenees tour that takes place in late May that is being hosted by John Norris (Cobham Cobra). Though, Goodwood sounds like a lot of fun too. Perhaps we can get a U.S. contingent to tour the Pyrenees with our Club friends over in Europe? Now, that would be a blast! [:D]
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I would love to drive around Europe and go to Goodwood one day!
Gus
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quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes: I would love to...go to Goodwood one day! Gus
One day ain`t enough. In fact the 3 days ain`t enough to do half of what his Marchness has to offer! [:D][8D]
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Bring your walking boots.....and much money
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Trevor, such hospitality...
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Hi Gus,
I have exchanged a few emails with BBK (Rob) and will soon be able to provide options and indicative costs for shipping to Europe for a short-term / temporary import of his Cobra. I think the trip to the Pyrenees now has 12 cars signed up. We originally had 21 spaces on the trip (limited by the number of hotel rooms), but during March we will need to confirm and pay for the rooms and will then let the excess room go.
So if anyone is thinking of coming on the trip – don’t leave it too long.
The trip is 29th May – 7th June and I suggested to Rob, that if he does come to Europe it would be worth staying an extra few days to attend the Brooklands Double Twelve on 15th – 16th June
http://www.sportscardigest.com/brooklands-double-twelve-festival-2013-information/
http://www.sportscardigest.com/brooklands-double-twelve-festival-2012-photo-gallery/
Some members enter the driving tests and concours etc and others display their cars. The club had a display at the event last year and we plan to have a bigger display this year.
We also have cold beer [:)]
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I would love to come over and have a cold beer among AC enthusiasts, however that first of June I will hopefully be riding 12+ foot waves on the outer banks of North Carolina in my recently acquired role of professional Kiteboarder... Ok, semi, professional... not quitting my dayjob...
(http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o669/RS5038/IMG_7898_zpsffb6e841.jpg)
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Gus, you call them waves?!
Bring your kite with you....Just down the road from Goodwood is Worthing (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYFoF5UIX0U")!!!![:0][8D]
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Yeah, that was pretty sick! Lewis and Ruben lenten are the masters of insane! They should both be in the outer banks as well when I'm there!
I have no interest in jumping over the Brighton pier, but I have no problem jumping 40+ feet. [:)]
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I have a problem waalking 40 feet!!! You`re a helluva fella! [8D]
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In hindsight, maybe the European and UK contingent is relieved they did not ship their priceless cars over to the US for the USA international...
http://gcaptain.com/comfort-images/
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quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
In hindsight, maybe the European and UK contingent is relieved they did not ship their priceless cars over to the US for the USA international...
http://gcaptain.com/comfort-images/
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Gus - First of all a belated 'thank you' for all your hard work and time in trying to establish the UK to USA visit. Many of us love motoring USA style, and it remains a great idea which one feels should be doable. Hopefully, one day.......
As for the ship, [:0]'Oh...M.....G....' is the expression which comes to mind!
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At least the front half will get there....
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Ouch - not good. I recall the time when a client of mine spent over a year building the most advanced scanning electron microscope system for a University in Brazil. It was crated, shipped and the team flew out to await it's arrival - but it's still on the bottom of the Atlantic and last I heard it wasn't working too well....
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Is that guy writing books about Cobras now?
Gus