AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: westcott on May 25, 2012, 19:11:41
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If You love challenges,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-AUTOKRAFT-AC-COBRA-AUTOKRAFT-AC-COBRA-/230793918491?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item35bc63b81b#ht_500wt_948
Westcott
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How many of these cars have been turned into 60's 427 clones, or do their owners keep them true? It would be hard to do a complete rebuild and come out ahead, however the current price would allow that...
Gus
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Gus
Very little information in the Mk IV Register, AK1011 was supplied in black with black leather and had a customer supplied 427 side oiler. No date in the Register but from the numbering sequence, it would appear that it was built in 1982. I'm sure Rick 'Mark IV' will be able to provide a much more comprehensive history.
Very unusual to see a Mk IV in this condition in the UK - most of them here are in pristine condition. Engine mods appear to be universally accepted but some frown on converting the MkIV interior into a Mk111 clone. You could always say however that you had put in a Mk IV lightweight interior!
There are a couple of modified MkIVs up for sale at auction and dealers in the US and UK (see below). They appear to be asking higher prices than for unmodified cars and it will be interesting to see whether buyers are prepared to pay a premium. The US auction car has been extensively modified.
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=DM12&CarID=r147&fc=0
http://www.hofmanns.co.uk/car-sales/ac-cobra-mkiv-50-v8-lhd
Are you thinking of putting in a bid?
Mark
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...One thing I can surely tell you is there is an early black MKIV .. I;m thinking 1983 which was Eric Clapton's car originally. I happen to stroll into a antique car shop in Nyack NY around 1990 and met him and the car shop owner and he was putting the car up for sale. So this could be the car ... maybe JB and or Rick could confirm which car was EC's.
Ron
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Rick, over to you,jim
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closing in 15 minutes. Bids going over 50K. Good luck. I'm out!
Gus
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$51.299
Gus
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quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
$51,299
Gus
That's about £33,000, not bad for a car in this condition. And 19 bids!
Scroll down ebay link for photos.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chafford
quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
$51,299
Gus
That's about £33,000, not bad for a car in this condition. And 19 bids!
Only, if you can find a way not to pay custom tax and VAT.
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I was thinking, given the state of the car, that it was a high bid. Let's hope it's not converted into yet another 427 S/C clone.
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Whether or not it becomes a street car clone is up to it's new owner. Lets just hope it finds a home that will cherish and restore it to a thing of beauty.
The 427 is to many the iconic Cobra, the car that when people think of an AC, is the first that springs to mind. It was the ultimate Cobra before aerodynamics left it a no longer viable racer. I also suspect that had Brian Anglis been able to produce what he wanted as opposed to what had to be made because of legislation it would have been a 427 S/C.
It may well prove that the cheapest part of owning this car will be the purchase! The renovation looks expensive.
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quote:
Originally posted by REV
It may well prove that the cheapest part of owning this car will be the purchase! The renovation looks expensive.
That's what I was thinking. At 35K it would have been a decent project.
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quote:
Originally posted by REV
Whether or not it becomes a street car clone is up to it's new owner. Lets just hope it finds a home that will cherish and restore it to a thing of beauty.
The 427 is to many the iconic Cobra, the car that when people think of an AC, is the first that springs to mind. It was the ultimate Cobra before aerodynamics left it a no longer viable racer. I also suspect that had Brian Anglis been able to produce what he wanted as opposed to what had to be made because of legislation it would have been a 427 S/C.
It may well prove that the cheapest part of owning this car will be the purchase! The renovation looks expensive.
Brian Angliss did build a run of 427 S/Cs e.g. COX 6136
http://www.billkempercobras.com/Pages/PhotosCOX6136.aspx
This raises the issue of whether Mk IVs are regarded as a model in their own right as stated in the SAAC register or merely as a replica of the '60s 427.
Is originality as important for a Mk IV as it is for say an Ace Bristol?
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Is a car that has been resprayed original? New interior? Engine Upgrades? Dial restorations? Shock absorbers? Cars tend to progress with time and technology, even "original" ones. A 60's racing cobra in original specification would never live with the "original" historic racers of today, but they are classed as originals.
So I would suggest that originality is a totally personal issue and perspective.
My point though was that who should place themselves in a position to judge what should or should not be done to a car? What is correct or incorrect? Again I feel they are personal issues. You and I may have our views, but they are ours. The man who placed his bid may have different ones and if he wants to place his hand in his pocket and buy the car and renovate it any way he wishes, good luck to him. If someone wishes to place their own preferences onto a car then they would be advised to place their hand deeply into their pocket and buy it.
I live in a Victorian house, but I have made the improvements of a fitted kitchen, central heating and a lovely bathroom and shower. It may not be original, but I bet the guys who lived here over a hundred years ago wouldn't have complained.
I for one really enjoy looking at the MKIV's on concours day. They all have personalities, some of which reflect their owners and others which are production differences. Over the years of manufacture specifications changed, carburetors gave way to fuel injection, Aluminum gave way to CRS. head rests were added, then there were Lightweights and Superblowers. Dash boards changed and so did wheel diameters. They were not all different, but they varied from car to car sometimes depending on what was available. Add to this owners improvements and I find it the most enjoyable section of all the AC's. None of the other models of the Marque have the same progressions. This was undoubtedly due to a rapidly changing world of technology that Anglis was embracing along the way.
So I raise a glass to the MKIV in all it's guises, and I make the toast "Vive la difference!" It is what it is and they are what they are. But in the modern world they still stand out as a thing of beauty and a car of character.
So to whoever was the buyer of that particular MKIV I wish the best of luck and may it be what he wants it to be.
These cars are for owning and enjoying. Anoraks are for rainy days!
[:)]
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Well said. On that note, I actually toyed with the idea to get it and I, for one, would have restored it with large overtones of 60's Cobra's. Hopefully we'll get to see the car on the ACOC forum in the future.
Gus
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quote:
Originally posted by REV...I raise a glass to the MKIV in all it's guises, and I make the toast "Vive la difference!" It is what it is and they are what they are. But in the modern world they still stand out as a thing of beauty and a car of character...[:)]
Spoken with verve & gusto, Sir! May I join you to raise a glass to all of the above?
Don`t just polish it; Get it out, drive it, love it. [8D]
quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes...I would have restored it with large overtones of 60's Cobra's. Hopefully we'll get to see the car on the ACOC forum in the future. Gus
Could you imagine turning up anywhere with it looking like it does now? [:0]
I`d love that! Not quite like one of my top 5 Cobras, Lynn Park`s amazing never-washed 289 timewarp (http://"http://www.motortrend.com/features/112_0704_1964_shelby_cobra_289"), but pretty darned cool!
(http://image.motortrend.com/f/9503784+w786+ar1/112_0704_19z+1964_shelby_cobra_289+interior_drivers_side.jpg)
(http://image.motortrend.com/f/9503760+w786+ar1/112_0704_04z+1964_shelby_cobra_289+fuel_filler_cap.jpg) (http://"http://www.motortrend.com/features/112_0704_1964_shelby_cobra_289")
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quote:
Originally posted by REV
I for one really enjoy looking at the MKIV's on concours day. They all have personalities, some of which reflect their owners and others which are production differences. Over the years of manufacture specifications changed, carburetors gave way to fuel injection, Aluminum gave way to CRS. head rests were added, then there were Lightweights and Superblowers. Dash boards changed and so did wheel diameters. They were not all different, but they varied from car to car sometimes depending on what was available. [:)]
But they won't have if they're converted into replica S/Cs in Guardsman Blue with Wimbledon White stripes and chromed side exhausts. This sort of radical change completely destroys a Mk IV's identity, in my opinion.
However as you said earlier, the buyer is entirely within his right to turn his Mark IV into a car that will be confused with a Dax.
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So "Original" Cobras were never painted Guardsman Blue with Wimbledon white stripes? And if they were they are confused with Dax copies?
That is your opinion. Which is ok, but it is your opinion and no more. I would suspect that any MKIV owner that owns a car of those colours might find your comments offensive. Which I do.
So not being funny, but do you actually own an AC? And if so which one, and what glorious colour is it? Is it in its original colours? and detailed correctly?
I would be a fairly shameful thing to give such opinions and make such statements without actually being an owner wouldn't it? To deride others cars and put down fellow members of the owners clubs pride and joy? But that would only be my opinion.
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This isn't a discussion about an individual's car, merely a wider discussion on whether the original features and appearance of a MkIV car should be kept when a car is restored. Expressing a view on colour won't I suspect offend anyone apart from the most sensitive individuals.
My view is that a restoration should keep the essence of the original car - a good example is shown on the thread covering AK 1106.
And no offence to Dax owners - great cars endorsed by John Tojeiro.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chafford
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My view is that a restoration should keep the essence of the original car - a good example is shown on the thread covering AK 1106.
So, you would say that the essence of a MK IV is the dashboard but not the engine?
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The essence of the car is both the engine and the appearance in my view. Removing the original Ford V8 and replacing it with another Ford V8 doesn't alter this in my opinion, although ideally the original should be retained.
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I think you'll also find that it was originally a "T" dash car and not a straight dash as now is.
Harry Callaghan (AKA Dirty Harry) has a very famous quote about opinions!
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DAMN! I was going to fit a 427 motor with sidepipes and paint my original AC (Ferrari) Giallo Fly CRS in Wimbledon Blue with white stripes plus put on one of those chrome roll hoop things and a set of 15inch knock offs on Goodyear rubber.(And a Monza filler cap)
Now you say this will make it non-original, you've spoiled my dream.
Almost forgot removing the carpet, radio, speakers, adding the Nardi steering wheel etc and eventually getting an old nostalgic to sell it as an FIA dated Cobra....[:D]
PS Question - Can you fit a Kirkham or Hawk alloy body to a CRS? Will it make it a real MK IV and command some respect...[:o)]
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Never give up on a dream..... especially if old nostalgic thinks he can shift it for you!
I suspect you'd need an absolute load of sticky back plastic to secure a new kirkham body to your chassis though, so maybe that's a non starter.
Anyone have an opinion?
:-)
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quote:
Originally posted by REV
Never give up on a dream..... especially if old nostalgic thinks he can shift it for you!
I suspect you'd need an absolute load of sticky back plastic to secure a new kirkham body to your chassis though, so maybe that's a non starter.
Anyone have an opinion?
:-)
Alan Faulkner-Stevens is probably the best person to answer that - there's a Kirkham on the PDF article on his website.
http://www.dragonwheelsrestorations.co.uk/Talking%20Shop.pdf
Apologies for any offence caused to you in previous posts. I was trying to make a general point and no malicious or deliberate comments intended. No question that AFS is a master builder and restorer if AKL 1408 (as helpfully pointed out by a fellow poster) is anything to go by. (I would have chosen British Racing Green though! [;)][;)])
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I showed the photos to my Labrador Retriever. His comment was RUFF!
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Ruff convert Porsches! Does your dog know nothing???? Good grief....
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Trevor,
The high bidder called me today for any info I had on this car. I told him to register and post here for details and that the International Cobra Czar would have info for him.
As I had both AK 1013 and 1017 and both were different, I said that it was likely that 1011 would be different again. He intends to restore to Mk IV specification....no blue/white with big honkin' side pipes likely!
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very interesting discussion, with valuable points of view on each side... To add my humble piece of thinking: I must admit that, although I enjoy the MKIV specifications and think it's a milestone on its own in the AC history, I also love some of the MKIII particularisms, and especially the interior and dashboard...
apart from keeping it original, I assume nobody prefers the Ford column switches, as well as the heater rotative knobs [B)] ! and the dashboard is the part of the car you look the longer at !
so, I'm stretched between keeping it as original as it can be (and AK1113 is still 99% stock, which was a part of the buying decision), and enjoying it the way I want it ... I don't want a MKIII replica, I just want that MY MKIV looks the way I love it!
as a classic car nut, I know how much keeping a car stock is important, and will be more and more, so the first criteria is that every single modification has to be reversible, and if I ever change to a MKIII dashboard, I'd keep the T-shape one and all the parts on a shelf, to allow me (or any other owner) to go back... but as for the engine, I assume the best thing is to enjoy the car at its best ! regarding stripes, sidepipes and other racing features, I don't like them, because to me, the MKIV is more a 289 sports,as sold by AC, with street features, than a 427 S/C...
to calm the discussion, maybe could we talk about a lightweight dashboard instead of a MKIII [:D] ?
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FF, nicely put! JB
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What is critical is that these cars are loved. AK1011 hasn't had that love and nor had the car I'm currently restoring.
When a car is cast aside for sometime it deteriorates quickly. Things that were a tad rusty and tight become seized and they just generally become much more tired than one that is doing what it should. They sit in a barn and fill with dust and grime that becomes engrained and embedded. If no one is there to buy and restore these cars then they will be lost, and the costs are substantial.
So as long as the cars are loved and cherished then they will survive. Many will hopefully be restored several times during their lives to varying degrees, and originality will probably be totally the future name of the game. But before we get to the future they need to pass through the now.
My personal car has shades of the 60's running through it. We have removed the heater controls from the dash and placed them into the glove box. No headrests, 60's gear shift and a 60's steering column. Under the bonnet we have a weber style stack fuel injection system, which it should have had before we started, but somehow it had been replaced with a carb. Reel seat belts have been fitted to PROPER added fixing points (if you have harnesses fitted check where they're connected). It even has heated seats. Mechanically it is totally upgraded and pristine.
And then the colour..... Yep Guardsman with Wimbledon.... I know it's a little passe, but I like it. I grew up in the sixties and Ken Miles is still my hero. So no apologies, it's mine and I love how it looks, and when most people see it they usually do as well. The quality of the vehicle means it is not confused with a kit car. It is stunning.
All of the above could though be easily reversed back to stock without a great deal of fuss. The fabric of the car has not changed.
The important thing is that it is in glorious condition and will hopefully be preserved now for several decades, and when its time to once again restore it, then the next man can have his say.
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And I can second all the above - tis a veritable work of art, a bit of mobile perfection!! The only creatures who might mistake that MkIV for a 'kit car' are those who breath through their mouths
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quote:
Originally posted by REV
The quality of the vehicle means it is not confused with a kit car. It is stunning.
I think we all agree about that ! even if some (very few) kit cars can equal the MKIV quality, it is obvious ... one little story: when I picked up AK1113 at LE HAVRE port facilities, the guy who delivered the car lead me to it, and said : "we put it there, in a quiet place, because of the quality of the car... we see a lot of replicas coming from the USA, but this car is really different!" [|)]
apart from the dashboard (and you're right, Shep, stickgear and housing!), my other wondering is wether to keep the interior in its original color (ie tan), or change it to black, which is more common, but has my favour on a red Cobra ! but it also involve changing seats and doors uphosltery, and as already said, I want to keep everything reversible, so it means buying new black seats (easy) and finding or making from scratch door panels (harder)...
I must admit that the combo red/tan is very "american" (no offense), and each time I see a red/black MKIV, I love it... but sometimes, I look at my car and want to change nothing [:o)]!
an example of a tan straight dashboard (from a Superformance - but for illustration only ;) !):
(http://superformance.org/hitechtour/photos/mon_hitech_finalassbly_mk3wiring.jpg)
what do you think of it (colour essentially) ?
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quote:
Originally posted by TLegate
are those who breath through their mouths
Hey! I resemble that remark!
Painting a MK IV blue/white is NOT a crime! Letting one linger until it is worn and forlorn is!
Use it or lose it..............
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quote:
Originally posted by REV
We have removed the heater controls from the dash and placed them into the glove box.
very clever ! I was thinking of using straight pull switches (like those for manual choke), or fitting them to a larger horizontal return of the dashboard (hidden) but you solution is better... do you have any picture of this solution, please ?
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The Heater controls are the originals, but just relocated.
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt244/ak1023/Heatercontrols.jpg)
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt244/ak1023/AKLDash.jpg)
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Very Nice Nick,
My thoughts exactly. I would have done similar things with it. Why don't you post a bunch of photos of your car. I would love to see it!
Gus
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Not much room in there for your string-back driving gloves (or a bottle of Tizer)
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thanks for the pics ! who cares for a glovebox, anyway :) ?
don't want to be thick, but your dashboard layout looks like a S/C one... so is a glovebox logical ? or is it a lightweight dashboard ? for my car, I'd prefer a street version layout, anyway...
last, I noticed the "MkIII" door panel ? was it also converted ?
thanks !
Olivier
Edited : ok, I got it ! I noticed the AKL name of your picture [:o)] ....
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quote:
Originally posted by French Frie
Edited : ok, I got it ! I noticed the AKL name of your picture [:o)] ....
Yes, but the sub-directory is AK1023 [:)] So, if the car is AK1023 it would be very interesting how the doors are modified (pictures, pictures, ...)
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Go to dragonwheelsrestorations.co.uk
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One has to have somewhere to put you string back gloves!
It's not supposed to be a faithful repro of a 60's car. It was just done as I felt I wanted it. The dash is part of the original modified and part new.
The doors are standard as it is a lightweight and not a standard MKIV., but I did convert the doors on AK1023. I would though advise that it's a very difficult job. Probably easier to make new doors. All the hinges need to be altered and the doors are made in a completely different way. Getting the door catches right is a nightmare! Very tricky. All my pics of AK1023 are now gone and so is the car so I cant take anymore photos.
As Dart says the link is Dragon Wheels:
http://www.dragonwheelsrestorations.co.uk/concours.htm
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt244/ak1023/IMG_0114.jpg)
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Very instructive ! Quite off topic,but As I already ordered a bent gearstick, may I dare to ask if the use of it is easy, and if it doesn't "throw" the gearknob too far from the seat ? I assume the gearlever is not as the same place the Toploader was on original cars,but I stand to be corrected...
Other question: I asked about shocks few weeks ago (Spax ones), and see that you (or AFS) fitted Gaz shocks ... Are you pleased with them and do you know the references # ?
Thank you for sharing!
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Very nice, my kinda car! And I like the Blue and Stripes!
I Shoulda bid the high bid on that thing!
Gus
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I'm sorry but I can't answer that as yet as I've not driven it!
At the moment it has only been registered a few days and we are awaiting the man to do the final calibrations on the fuel injection system. He is at Le Mans until after the 24 Heures.
I am promised that It is his first job upon his return.
:-)
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Oh, I see... C'est la vie ;)!
Is there any chance that it will be ready for the "real" 24h, ie Le Mans Classic in July ? I'll be there with AK1113 (never missed since 2002)...
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It should be finished by then but I won't be there. Hopefully in two years time we'll come over and have a look.
It would be a great trip.
:-)
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Yep, great trip... Maybe not as huge as Goodwood Revival, but a myth... And more exotic to you, Brits [;)] !
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Olivier, do Your dashboard in the way you like it. It is quite simple because the main shape is a L. The outer ends are not bended forward as with the 60s cars so it can be done(the dash only) in 2 weekends if the paper patterns for all the cutouts are prepared in advance, all the parts are on the shelf inclusive glue and cover material. Just the flange for your glovebox, if needed, has to be formed or welded in shape and position.
One of the 2 side covers arround the door hinge area needs to be fabricated new because it will not fit the straight dash.
Together with steering column, switch and harness changes it should take you not more then 4-5 relaxed weekends during the winter if you organize all the parts before.
Use the same attachment points as the t-dash and build ourself a harness with the original connectors to the main loom and you can rework it to original t-dash in 2 days
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Hello to all. I am new to this forum. I was the high bidder for AK 1011 and it has been a bit of a saga in terms of the auction. Not sure where to start, but perhaps to advise that the sale has unraveled...not due to interest on my part! The seller was starting to flake out on me and then emailed me that he wanted to back out of the sale a couple of days ago. It seems that the seller was not quite prepared to sell the car, after owning it for 21 years, and due to being very busy, issues mechanically with the car (brakes seized), and seeming personal things going on such that he did not have the time to deal with the sale, he requested that we cancel the auction. I have to say I was disappointed, but it is probably for the best based on the way things were going. Here is the background on the car from my various discussions and emails with the owner. It is an early car and was imported directly from England by a friend of the current owner. The seller in England was a dealer (don't know who) and the first owner of the car was a Saudi prince who had two AK Mk IV's...a red one with white interior that went to France, and AK 1011 (the Ebay car) which is black but had a white interior at one point. I do not know when the interior was changed to black. AK 1011 was in England and then imported by a friend of the current owner. I was able to speak with Mark IV, a poster on this forum, and he kindly spoke with me about Autokraft cars and said he had heard a story from Mr. Angliss about the Saudi prince cars and relayed other interesting stories to me (thank you Mark IV!). The current owners's friend who imported the car was in a front end accident the badly tweaked the fenders and hood. The current owner purchased the car from the friend and then ordered an entire front clip from Brian Angliss. The new front clip was 427 style vs. short nose. The original engine is not with the car as it blew up at one point. The owner put in a stroker engine that apparently runs quite well. The original windshield was replaced with a more raked windshield but the one that came with the car is still available along with the A/C components and many other parts. I saw some photos of the chassis...mostly dry but some surface rust and one area that needed some attention. I had planned to fly into Miami to see the car and transact the sale. The owner was not easy to reach and not particularly communicative on when I could come there. He did not provide additional photos of the car and title as promised and did not have the parts together. When he got the car from storage, one of the rear brakes and front brakes had seized up. He wrote and asked to cancel the sale as the car was not in a condition for me to see and he did not have time to deal with the brake issues. As I was getting a bad feeling on how this was all coming together and changing stories from the seller on when i could come there, and then also pushing the details of the sale off on a friend as he was too busy to deal with it, I agreed to withdraw from the sale. So...I guess that is how it goes sometimes. As for the auction price, I felt I had room to not only acquire the car, but to invest some dollars to bring it up to proper snuff. My plan was to bring it back to original specification...its former glory. The end product would have been fantastic. I live in the Bay Area of California and had a shop lined up to work on it too. So, at some point perhaps the seller will be ready to sell the car again and hopefully be ready to conclude a sale with a buyer. For me...well, I am still in pursuit of an Autokraft car. The AC heritage, aluminum body, fantastic looks and performance have me sold to get a car. That's my story on AK 1011. Thanks for listening
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Sorry to hear you were let down.
People become emotionally attached to these cars and it seems the current owner probably is. I'm sure given time you'll find a suitable car or maybe even this one!
Good luck.
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Sorry to hear your news.
Here's a Mk IV being advertised in the US at the moment- more expensive than AK 1011 but less to spend on restoration!
(http://images.dealercarsearch.com/Media/4600/15051_18.jpg)
http://www.bellevuecars.com/newandusedcars/8663/1735514/a2fb5e81-ca32-423b-8106-4fd2f2c869cf/none/1988-AutoKraft-Cobra-Bellevue-WA-98004.aspx
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REV, thanks for your reply. I agree....I think that letting go of the car was a factor in all of this as well and that he was pretty attached to it. I beleive he plans to address some of the issues with the car as it needs some work and may place it for sale in the future. In the interim, I plan to keep looking! [:)]
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Chafford, thanks for the lead on the yellow car. I had called on that one yesterday and the salesman said that it looks like they have a deal in the works on it. They took my information and will call if it falls out. Thanks!
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There is always the Dingman car at RM auctions due in a few days - though I suspect it will not be cheap as it is a very nice spec and looks absolutely gorgeous!
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quote:
Originally posted by BBK
Chafford, thanks for the lead on the yellow car. I had called on that one yesterday and the salesman said that it looks like they have a deal in the works on it. They took my information and will call if it falls out. Thanks!
Mk IVs are being snapped up quickly in the States. You could however check with the seller of AK 1121 whether the sale has gone through.
http://www.clubcobra.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/4564/cat/2/perpage/12/sort/1/date/1164778912
The Dingman auction car is beautiful and is offered without reserve:
(http://www.rmauctions.com/images/cars/DM12/DM12_r147_02.jpg)
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=DM12&CarID=r147
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Thank you for the leads. The Dingman car looks very nice but the estimated pricing is beyond what I would want to spend. It being a no reserve auction means that I could get it for less possibly, so I will look into how to bid on that car. I would have to bid by phone I guess as the auction is in New Hamshire. I looked into the red car (AK 1121) as it was on EBay at one time. The owner and I communicated via email and it appears he has sold it to someone in Europe (Belgium or Switzerland I think?). He was very helpful and gave me Mark IV's name and that is how I was able to get a hold of him.
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I can see why you like British Racing Green now Chafford. That is a stunning car.
My experience of renovations is that it's cheaper to buy already restored... Much cheaper!
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A question I have that I am hoping someone can answer. The Dingman car has different tail lights (one oblong light each side). All Mk IV's I have seen have the two rounded tail light on each side in the rear, one on top of the other. Were the tail lights on the Dingman car an alteration from the norm, or was this a possible way of ordering a car from Autokraft? I have noted that most Cobras (actual Shelby cars and clones) are equipped with the oblong tail lights vs. the rounded ones. Not sure how the AC's came equiped normally in this regard.
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quote:
Originally posted by BBK
A question I have that I am hoping someone can answer. The Dingman car has different tail lights (one oblong light each side). All Mk IV's I have seen have the two rounded tail light on each side in the rear, one on top of the other. Were the tail lights on the Dingman car an alteration from the norm, or was this a possible way of ordering a car from Autokraft? I have noted that most Cobras (actual Shelby cars and clones) are equipped with the oblong tail lights vs. the rounded ones. Not sure how the AC's came equiped normally in this regard.
All the Mk IVs I have seen have the two light arrangement at the back.
(http://www.classicdriver.com/upload/cars/578/1832353/bigf.jpg )
(http://www.redlinepe.co.uk/images/galleries/sales/ac-cobra-2j.jpg)
So it is likely that the Dingman car has had the lights changed.
As far as I'm aware all the original Shelby 427s had the single light arrangement. The coil sprung AC 289 Sports sold outside the US in the late '60s had the twin light arrangement on the first cars and the single light arrangement on later cars (information from Rinsey Mills' book 'Original AC Ace and Cobra')
The AC 427 Mk111 'continuations' built in the '90s and '00s by AC (and currently by AC Heritage) had the single light at the rear.
(http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_986/car_photo_493474_25.jpg)
(http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/attachments/ac-mkiv/19044d1310836145-ac-continuation-kirkham-ac-cobra-mkiii-427-continuation-cox3361-3.jpg)
This left-hand drive MkIV is on sale in the UK at present at Redline Engineering:
(http://www.redlinepe.co.uk/images/galleries/sales/ac-cobra-4a.jpg)
http://www.redlinepe.co.uk/ac-cobra-mkiv-red
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quote:
Originally posted by REV
I can see why you like British Racing Green now Chafford. That is a stunning car.
My experience of renovations is that it's cheaper to buy already restored... Much cheaper!
Not sure about the roll bar arrangement for the wife though!
(http://www.rmauctions.com/images/cars/DM12/DM12_r147_04.jpg)
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Also on the 60s cars were round lights and the rectangular ones used. Depends on the year.
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Thank you for the responses regarding tail lights. Very interesting. Love the pictures posted.
Another question from a newbie....the two cars shown posted (silver and gray) do not seem to have the "Autokraft" script below the "AC" emblem on the trunk lid (boot). The cars I have seen for sale here in the U.S. have the "Autokraft" script on the trunk lid. Were the cars posted modified to eliminate the script, or is this how they were produced for the English market? Also, the U.S. cars I have seen (except for the Dingman car) have a different dash area. Most Autokraft cars I have seen have a center stack area that runs from the dash down to the drive tunnel, which area includes knobs for the ventilation controls. Have the posted cars had the dashes modified to eliminate the portion running down to the drive tunnel?
Any idea how much Redline wants for their red, left hand drive car?
Thank you!
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The Redline car is POA which normally means " if you ask it will be expensive"! They have two other MkIV's for sale at around $130k.
Most MkIV's were built with the T shaped dash but AC would build pretty much anything you asked for so some owners specified the straight dash that is closer to the "original" look. Lightweights were also built with a straight dash. Some cars have also been modified in later life to have straight dashes. The same principles essentially apply to the Autocraft script. When my car was built I was able to specify exactly what was on it including badges, dash, etc.
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quote:
Originally posted by BBK
Thank you for the responses regarding tail lights. Very interesting. Love the pictures posted.
Another question from a newbie....the two cars shown posted (silver and gray) do not seem to have the "Autokraft" script below the "AC" emblem on the trunk lid (boot). The cars I have seen for sale here in the U.S. have the "Autokraft" script on the trunk lid. Were the cars posted modified to eliminate the script, or is this how they were produced for the English market? Also, the U.S. cars I have seen (except for the Dingman car) have a different dash area. Most Autokraft cars I have seen have a center stack area that runs from the dash down to the drive tunnel, which area includes knobs for the ventilation controls. Have the posted cars had the dashes modified to eliminate the portion running down to the drive tunnel?
Any idea how much Redline wants for their red, left hand drive car?
Thank you!
Photos of the early MkIVs in England I've seen had the 'Autokraft' badge on the boot (trunk). Up until 1986, Brian Angliss's Autokraft was a separate company from AC and used the AC trademark under licence for the Mk IV. In 1986, Ford took up a 51% share in AC Cars and Brian Angliss also became Managing Director of AC Cars who were gearing up to produce their new Ace. The relationship soured in the early '90s and in 1992 Angliss bought out Ford's share in AC.
The grey car is one of a handful of Mk IV lightweights (26?) produced from 1990 onwards with the original dash from the '60s cars. The photos I've seen of the Lightweights either have the Cobra badge or the AC badge but not the Autokraft one. These cars are generally considered to be the pick of the Mk IVs - this one is on sale I believe for £150,000 ($237,000).
http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/find/4100_results.asp?&dealerid=670&lCarID=1832353
The silver car is a late UK market Mk IV from 1994 and others of that time period also do not have the Autokraft badge.
I'm not clear when the Mk IV officially became an AC rather than an Autokraft manufactured car but 1992, when Angliss took a majority stakeholding in AC, might have been the time.
In Europe, unlike the States, AC/Autokraft were allowed to use the 'Cobra' moniker until June 2002.
If you don't already have a copy, it's well worth getting hold of a copy of Trevor Legate's 'Cobra: The First 40 Years' which covers the Autokraft cars and history of the Company:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cobra-The-First-40-Years/dp/0955102006
Redline's contact details are at:
http://www.redlinepe.co.uk/contact-us
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I used to own AK1023 which was a 1983 car, and that had never had an AutoKraft badge, so I'm pretty sure that these badges were either sporadic or a later edition. It also originally had small "AC" badges on both the bonnet and boot lids. These were the same size as the Cobra badges.
Incidentally quite a strange thing with the silver Nostalgia car that it has quick lifts on the front and a bumper bar on the back.
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Looks as if you get both, according to the advert.
(http://www.classicdriver.com/upload/cars/578/1832353/bigg.jpg)
(http://www.classicdriver.com/upload/cars/578/1832353/bign.jpg)
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Looks like you get different exhausts and rear view mirrors too.
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Lots of terrific information....thank you. Looks like there was a lot of potential variance available on the car depending on individual preference and how the cars could be ordered. Very interesting! I will check with Redline on their car...thank you to all.
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quote:
Originally posted by BBK
Lots of terrific information....thank you. Looks like there was a lot of potential variance available on the car depending on individual preference and how the cars could be ordered. Very interesting! I will check with Redline on their car...thank you to all.
This one is also lhd and has passed California emissions standards - AC Owners Club member's car:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C295826#
(http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/cars/ac/2724640.jpg)
(http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/cars/ac/2724646.jpg)
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The grey car is stunning.
Gus
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Chafford......thank you.
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http://www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cfm?SaleCode=DM12&CarID=r147&Currency=USD
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Holy Smokes! Well, that sale result should make everyone pretty happy!
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Everyone... But those who are seeking for one, and who see their dreams escaping [;)] !
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Considering the going rate, this seems a bit of an anomaly.
Gus
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I agree Gus. I have attended a few auctions, including the Barrett Jackson event in Scottsdale earlier this year. Auction fever can hit people pretty hard....a nice car, two or more people interested, testosterone, and add drinks into the picture and a car can achieve a price in excess of what one would expect. I have seen some cars that have been absolute steals where someone gets a great car for a cheap price, and I have seen the opposite where a car sells for much more than one would think it would. The Dingman car, based on the description and photos, looked to be in amazing condition with much spent on it, so that could have driven the price pretty high, especially if you add in the above mentioned other factors that can play into it all. Not sure if the $170,000 price mentioned includes the buyer's premium (usually 10% of the purchase price). If it does, the actual "hammer price" would have been around $154,000 +.
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Back in town.....
http://www.collectorcarsforsale.com/230793918491-other-makes-autokraft-ac-cobra-autokraft-ac-cobra/detailse.html
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quote:
Originally posted by westcott
Back in town.....
http://www.collectorcarsforsale.com/230793918491-other-makes-autokraft-ac-cobra-autokraft-ac-cobra/detailse.html
This looks to be identical to the EBay post that I responded to a few months ago when I won this car (and the seller backed out). This may not be current. I went on the EBay motors site just now and could not find that this car is listed as up for auction.