AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: Chafford on April 11, 2012, 21:39:33
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I was thumbing through some old magazines the other day and came across the excellent Classic Cars article on the MkIV from March 2009 (What a wonderful wedding present for Mr Norris!).
The article values the standard MkIV at between £45,000 and £60,000. However today's prices for even the standard cars seems to be £90,000+ going on prices quoted by dealers such as Redline. Given the recession over the past few years, this seems to be a meteoric rise but I'm wondering whether the Cobra 50th anniversary is playing a large part in the prices being quoted.
And there seems to be a considerable disparity between MkIV prices quoted in the UK and those in the US where they are considerably lower.
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There's a beautiful 1986 Autokraft MkIV coming up at RM Auctions' Dingman Collection sale, June 9-10, in the Boston area. VIN number SA9AK3028GA017164.
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=DM12&CarID=r147&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Act-On+Software&utm_content=email&utm_campaign=A%20labor%20of%20love&utm_term=FeatureCars.cfm#
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And if you were to have invested your savings, propping up the High Street Banks, with a return of 0.5% how much fun would you have had? Not a lot! I vote for driving a Classic Car, and the smile it brings. Shame about those poor Bank Managers losing their bonus'.
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Messrs. Nostalgia of Hertforth Heath/Herts. offer a 1993 MkIV (AKL1434) for 150,000 GBP. Although the car seems to be a 'true' lightweight and looks great on the pictures this is clearly a steep price as compared to what was asked for similar cars in the past. I have been told that one reason for the price increases is a significantly growing demand from people in Russia and China. Another reason may be the desire of people to protect their savings from inflation, besides the low interest one gets if he carries his money to a bank, as Andy pointed out.
Jürgen
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Currently being in the process of restoring a car I have to say that for a MKIV in pristine condition the figures quoted by Nostalgia are not outrageous. To get a car to that condition is VERY costly!
I would also suspect that China and Russia will have a huge effect in the future. I was recently in the Far East and happened across an Antique Fair in a large Hotel. The prices being asked for British and French furniture were staggering. They are certainly grasping the Western lifestyle with both hands, and I suspect classic cars will be something that will be in high demand. The shinier and louder the better!
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I did not mean to say that the price quoted by Nostalgia is outrageous. I am sorry if my statement can be interpreted that way.
Jürgen
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There are many Cobras offered by dealer for many months. Where are the customers??
It is a big difference between the asking price and the real value! It seems that high asking prices are driven by dealers ignoring the real value.
Dart 427
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I had my car AK1121, an excellent example, listed on Ebay at $89,000 and it didn't sell.
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Sometimes with high value goods it takes time to find a buyer. That doesn't mean an article is overpriced, it just means that a buyer isn't there for it at that moment.
I have owned and sold several high value and sort after cars in my time and never have they sold straight away. They have all taken time, but eventually made reasonable money. I would suggest that if you want your money ASAP in any market be prepared to take a lowly price, but in the current market it'll take even longer or be even less.
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I certainly haven’t regretted my wedding present #61514; much better than another toaster or coffee maker.
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But you've got to admit it makes a lousy cup of coffee....
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quote:
Originally posted by marklotus
I had my car AK1121, an excellent example, listed on Ebay at $89,000 and it didn't sell.
Mk IVs are notably underrated and undervalued in the US - probably due to the lack of a Shelby connection.
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I think the problem in the US is the many Shelby Cobra replicas and kit cars. The AC AutoKraft cars find it hard to differentiate themselves from the herd. I think in Europe they are perceived as legitimate cars in their own right, due to their handmade aluminum construction and the long history of AC Cars.
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some cars currently offered for sale in Germany :
- Shelby Cobra CSX4943 427 S/C: 138 K€ (115 K£)
- AC Cobra MkIV 460 & Tremec: 109 K€ (90.8 K£)
- AC Cobra MkIV 302 upgraded: 119.5 K€ (99.6 K£)
& France
- Shelby Cobra CSX4988 427 S/C: 139 K€ (115.8 K£)
- Shelby Cobra CSX6026 427 S/C: 144.9 K€ (120.75 K£)
- Shelby Cobra CSX7036 289 FIA: 109 k€ (90.8 k£)
- Shelby Cobra CSX7... 289 FIA: 119.5 k€ (99.6 K£)
All prices inclusive of local VAT (19% in Germany, 21 % in France).
With prices for Kirkham and Superformance Cobras in excess of 100 K€, MkIV Cobras are comparably underpriced.
Point is also that a lot of buyers go for the more powerful and sexyer replicas, often ignoring about the existence and pedigree of ACs. And sellers of replicas permanently advertise their cars for what they are not! Just seen an ad of a 289 FIA Kirkham with coil spring suspension!
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- AC Cobra MKIV 460 & Tremec: 109 K€ , offered since a few Days..... We will see!
-AC Cobra MKIV 302 upgraded: 119.5K€, offered since 4 Years!!!!!!! Price a few weeks ago by 10K€ reduced.
Prices for MKIV are not underpriced. Prices for Plastic Kit Cars are extremely overpriced!
The value of a Car is exactly what a buyer is prepared to pay for it.
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The disparity of the prices for MkIVs on the one hand and the Cobras newly built by Shelby, Kirkham, etc on the other hand is even more astonishing taking into account that the Shelby cars named by Constant in his earlier post have bodies made of plastic, not aluminium.
I believe that by and large the buyers of MkIVs and the buyers of new Shelbys etc belong to two different groups (with certain overlaps, of course). The MkIV buyers are basically vintage car aficionados who do care about originality and who would also consider buying a classic Jaguar, Lancia, or Porsche, while the Shelby continuation car community is more focused on cars that are 'powerful and sexy' without having too much regard to history. In line with this I would guess that the MkIV prices will follow the general trend of classic car prices which will not necessarily be true for the Shelbys and the Kirkhams, let alone the kit cars. As is well-known the prices of classic cars have been going up for years and are largely expected to go up further for reasons discussed above. In Germany we have a 'vintage car price index' which was established in 1988, it comprises 88 models of 7 countries. Since the year 2000 this index has risen, on average, at a an annual rate of 6%, it did not collapse during the financial crisis in 2008/2009. So I am confident that the MkIV owners will not lose money on their cars in the years to come, although prices may not continue the 'meteoric rise' pointed out by Mark in the post starting this thread.
Jürgen
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quote:
Originally posted by MkIV Lux
some cars currently offered for sale in Germany :
- Shelby Cobra CSX4943 427 S/C: 138 K€ (115 K£)
- AC Cobra MkIV 460 & Tremec: 109 K€ (90.8 K£)
- AC Cobra MkIV 302 upgraded: 119.5 K€ (99.6 K£)
& France
- Shelby Cobra CSX4988 427 S/C: 139 K€ (115.8 K£)
- Shelby Cobra CSX6026 427 S/C: 144.9 K€ (120.75 K£)
- Shelby Cobra CSX7036 289 FIA: 109 k€ (90.8 k£)
- Shelby Cobra CSX7... 289 FIA: 119.5 k€ (99.6 K£)
All prices inclusive of local VAT (19% in Germany, 21 % in France).
With prices for Kirkham and Superformance Cobras in excess of 100 K€, MkIV Cobras are comparably underpriced.
Point is also that a lot of buyers go for the more powerful and sexyer replicas, often ignoring about the existence and pedigree of ACs. And sellers of replicas permanently advertise their cars for what they are not! Just seen an ad of a 289 FIA Kirkham with coil spring suspension!
Shelby American appears to have a higher profile in Europe than it does in the UK. I haven't seen any of Shelby's current continuation Cobra cars on sale in the UK and am not aware of any UK dealers.
http://www.shelby-france.fr/
http://achat-occasion.automobile.fr/annonces/details.html?id=158886731
£120k for a glassfibre Shelby is laughable though.
Back to MkIVs, I rather like this '87 car:
(http://www.redlinepe.co.uk/images/galleries/sales/ac-cobra-4a.jpg)
(http://www.redlinepe.co.uk/images/galleries/sales/ac-cobra-4c.jpg)
(http://www.redlinepe.co.uk/images/galleries/sales/ac-cobra-4d.jpg)
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The red painted wheels and riveted hood are not to my taste.
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It's pretty sad over here. Everyone thinks my MKIV is a kit car. When I go to a show with a Shelby continuation I usually park in a different area and not speak to them. They are too busy telling everyone about there "real Shelby Cobra". I was overlooked at the Hilton Head concours event a few years agos. The theme was British cars. The judge picked two BMW Minis with Union Jacks on the roof for the 10 car parade even though I had a placard stating "number 131
out of 386 built in England" staring at him. Pitiful, I am still pissed. The only recognition I get is from the few CSX owners and fellow MKIV owners I have met. Half of me is English, I promise.[:(]
PS: Still working the Eight Stack fuel injection install. It's beautiful. Should haul butt.[8D]
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We all love you AK1131 - you'll always have a welcome here :)
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quote:
Originally posted by TLegate
We all love you AK1131 - you'll always have a welcome here :)
Yeah, ditto that! Their loss. Can`t believe that they have such little understanding of what 'British' is! [B)]
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quote:
Originally posted by AK1131
It's pretty sad over here. Everyone thinks my MKIV is a kit car. When I go to a show with a Shelby continuation I usually park in a different area and not speak to them. They are too busy telling everyone about there "real Shelby Cobra". I was overlooked at the Hilton Head concours event a few years agos. The theme was British cars. The judge picked two BMW Minis with Union Jacks on the roof for the 10 car parade even though I had a placard stating "number 131
out of 386 built in England" staring at him. Pitiful, I am still pissed. The only recognition I get is from the few CSX owners and fellow MKIV owners I have met. Half of me is English, I promise.[:(]
PS: Still working the Eight Stack fuel injection install. It's beautiful. Should haul butt.[8D]
I wonder if this lack of recognition in the States is also due to the fact Ford allowed Autokraft/AC to use the 'Cobra' name outside the USA. The car here is very much the 'AC Cobra Mk IV' rather than the 'Autokraft AC Mk IV'
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quote:
I wonder if this lack of recognition in the States is also due to the fact Ford allowed Autokraft/AC to use the 'Cobra' name outside the USA. The car here is very much the 'AC Cobra Mk IV' rather than the 'Autokraft AC Mk IV'
Don’t ya just love labels! How about the GM Chevy Corvette or the Fiat Ferrari 458, and let’s not forget the Superformance Shelby Cobra!
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At least the MkIV 'Cobra' owners can console themselves that nobody is claiming their cars are anything other than what they are. Imagine what it's like to own a real, genuine AC (Shelby) Cobra with traceable history and find that there are 'people' who claim it's anything but. Now that has got to be annoying.
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Isn't it the 'Shelby' name rather than the 'Cobra' name that makes a difference to many Americans? Please correct me but my understanding of this issue is that the MkIVs are also considered 'Cobras' in the US but they are not generally considered 'true' Cobras there because of the lacking connection to Shelby. This lack of connection in turn is essential as Shelby's part in creating the 'Cobra' in the 1960ies and making it an icon is overrated, not least as a result of the marketing skills of Carroll Shelby himself.
Jürgen
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quote:
Imagine what it's like to own a real, genuine AC (Shelby) Cobra ...
Funny, I was under the impression that Mk IVs were real, genuine AC Cobras, just the delayed 4th generation with a really confused lineage. I can’t help wonder what Ford was thinking when they excluded the Cobra name from the US market, but allowed the cars to be sold in Ford dealerships with the Cobra logo displayed in each door sill and the Cobra name embossed in silver on the blue faux suede cover of the Mk IV owner’s Manual. Can a Cobra be “real” (or is a better word legitimate?) without a Shelby association AND an AC association? …a rhetorical question if there ever was one. However, the implication for all those continuation cars boggles the mind!
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quote:
Originally posted by ANF289
quote:
Imagine what it's like to own a real, genuine AC (Shelby) Cobra ...
Funny, I was under the impression that Mk IVs were real, genuine AC Cobras, just the delayed 4th generation with a really confused lineage. I can’t help wonder what Ford was thinking when they excluded the Cobra name from the US market, but allowed the cars to be sold in Ford dealerships with the Cobra logo displayed in each door sill and the Cobra name embossed in silver on the blue faux suede cover of the Mk IV owner’s Manual. Can a Cobra be “real” (or is a better word legitimate?) without a Shelby association AND an AC association? …a rhetorical question if there ever was one. However, the implication for all those continuation cars boggles the mind!
But I'll answer anyway. The AC Cobra sold outside the US and the AC 289 Sports.
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quote:
Can a Cobra be “real” (or is a better word legitimate?) without a Shelby association AND an AC association? …a rhetorical question if there ever was one. However, the implication for all those continuation cars boggles the mind!
quote:
But I'll answer anyway. The AC Cobra sold outside the US and the AC 289 Sports.
...and a great answer at that!
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my mind is spinning..
Gus
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AK1131 ...I here you ... but that is the primary reason I sold my Shelby... a real snooty bunch. My Insurance Co wanted to register the car as a replica ... I had to send them to this site and give them the title.
One thing this car has that the originals, replicas and continuation Cars ... is the fine Coach Work with regards to detail and thought process that went into these cars.
So that's good to know .. the car in England is an AC COBRA MKIV ... we will just stick with that to piss of the other Cobra Owners next time I;m at a show.
Ron
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I went to a Ford event a couple of years back with a fiberglass continuation Shelby 427 in attendance. This guy had a trailer like he was a team racer and rolled the car in and out but never started the car. He and his buddy were dress in full Shelby regalia like there were the old man himself. It was quite a show. The sad think is that the car is really worth about the same as a gold plated commemorative coin. There is simply nothinbg there.
When the 50th Anniversory Shelby Cobra was first offered, I called Shelby American to find out the details. I was told the all of the cars had been bought and that all the cars were built "in house" fiberglass & aluminum. I knew better just wanted to hear the tale. I continued by telling the gentleman about my AC MKIV and ask if he knew about the car. He told me Shelby bought AC a long time ago. This is at Shelby headquarters!
Do you know there is a Shelby Dodge Registry. While AutoKraft was building my 86 AC, Shelby was adding his name to a Dodge compact. I guess I better run out quick and buy myself a Shelby Lancer before they start to build replicas.
Thanks all for your kindness and understanding [:I]
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I find this an interesting thread for many reasons. Harkens right back to some discussions in the past on this forum. It will be the eternal issue in the car hobby. And with it comes the unfortunate and unnecessary snooty attitudes. I think the true aficionados enjoy their and any other car that their owners enjoy having and tinkering with, regardless of heritage or pedigree. I think many people derive some kind of sense of propped up self from their prized possession, which inevitably leads to claims of superiority or inferiority...depending of which side you're on. But take Jay Leno as an example of an enthusiast: arguably could own whatever he wants, but drives a replica 427 Cobra... Among the many "original" cars he has. The discussion is tiresome...
BTW, I have one of those leaf sprung 289 FIA Kirkhams... It's a great, no, fantastic car... My good friend Ron owns CSX 3106..., he must be a better man!
Gus
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quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
BTW, I have one of those leaf sprung 289 FIA Kirkhams... It's a great, no, fantastic car... My good friend Ron owns CSX 3106..., he must be a better man!
Gus
Well, possibly a richer one!![:)][:)]The FIA is a lovely car, as is your AC Ace
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p222/AEX674/IMG_4323.jpg)
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Actually, Ron is a very regular guy. Incredible mechanic and fabricator. He's had this car for a very long time. Raced it for many years and will be at Monterey with it this summer for the 50 year anniversary races.
And thanks for the compliments!
Gus
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And I meant coil sprung Kirkhams. I know, what a travesty, but really all the proper looks with better suspension...
Gus
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quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes:
And I meant coil sprung Kirkhams. I know, what a travesty, but really all the proper looks with better suspension... Gus
Travesty? Not at all, in fact that makes it very similar to the period AC289`s, which had the coilsprings and SB engine, which according to them what knows these things, was the best driving variant of all the period Cobras!!![8D]
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The Cobra MkIV Registrar will build you a Kirkham or even revive your Cobra Mk IV if you ask him nicely and lace his palm with silver.
http://www.dragonwheelsrestorations.co.uk/Talking%20Shop.pdf
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That is interesting. For anyone that understands the Dutch language: the license plate on the 427 is a most interesting one[:D][:I]
Gus
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quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
That is interesting. For anyone that understands the Dutch language: the license plate on the 427 is a most interesting one[:D][:I]
Gus
Gus, I am shocked (after google ...) [:I]
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quote:
Originally posted by dart427
There are many Cobras offered by dealer for many months. Where are the customers??
It is a big difference between the asking price and the real value! It seems that high asking prices are driven by dealers ignoring the real value.
Dart 427
The 1994 Motor Show car at Redline has been reduced from £98,000 to £83,995 - so perhaps the dealers are being too optimistic.
http://www.redlinepe.co.uk/ac-cobra-mkiv-silver
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Indeed - the asking price and the sales prices are two different things. The last AC Cobra sold in germany was a Lightweight in excellent condition with uprated engine - it was sold for 100 k€ last year. The owner sold it because he was tired of being asked: "Is it an original?".
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quote:
Originally posted by 1984MkIV
Indeed - the asking price and the sales prices are two different things. The last AC Cobra sold in germany was a Lightweight in excellent condition with uprated engine - it was sold for 100 k€ last year. The owner sold it because he was tired of being asked: "Is it an original?".
Surely the answer to that question would be 'Yes' [;)]
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They will ask that from about any Cobra-esque car. The public is smart enough to recognize the shape of the car, but that's where it ends... Maybe another great reason for the "preservation class" the rattier they look, the more likely it must be real?
Gus
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have a look at lot n° 30 in this upcoming auction (by a serious auction house in Switzerland):
- this lousy looking Cobra-esque car is estimated at 50-54 K€ !! ==> In comparison, prices for MKIVs should then start at 150 K€!!
"A horse is worth as a much as a fool is willing to pay for it. And every day another fool is rising out of bed somewhere."
However, there is no relationship between one and the other fool's choice :-(
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The first time I took out my CRS an admirer at a local filling station walked round the car and said "That's a beautiful job you've done there mate, how long did she take you ?" After a few moments his meaning sank in to my brain and I replied "No its a real one, a real AC , look at the whel nuts, one of the last" to which the reply was "Pull the other one mate no one drives real AC Cobras on the road".
I guess the main benefit of the general public confusion is that car thieves are unlikely to run off with a "kit car".[:o)]
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quote:
"A horse is worth as a much as a fool is willing to pay for it. And every day another fool is rising out of bed somewhere."
However, there is no relationship between one and the other fool's choice :-(
That is true for any car. Auction companies do well by trying to bring the fools together and have testosterone do it's job. And of course it goes without saying that price and taste do not pair up either...
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AK1066 was advertised on Hemmings for $79,995.00 and sold for $70,000.00
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quote:
Originally posted by AK1131
AK1066 was advertised on Hemmings for $79,995.00 and sold for $70,000.00
At current exchange rates ($1.62:£1) that's £43,200. Very cheap for an aluminium bodied Cobra and suggests that even with taxes it would be cheaper to reimport from the US than buy from a UK dealer.
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The dealer told me he was told he sold the car too cheap but he was happy. Considering the poor engine bay and underside condition, he did pretty good. my MKIV is spotless in comparison with less that 3000 original miles. Still working on my Eight Stack injection installation. [8D]
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Eight Stack injection. Are you doing the Dynatec system? It looks very convincing.
Gus
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AK1164 to be part of RM's "Dingman Auction" on June 9-10 in USA.
There is no reserve so it will be interesting to see what it sells for.
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I will try to explain something I (think) found out the last 20 years. Please see this as a example for the common understanding of real Cobras suspension and road holding performance
The kitcar dealers and owners here in Germany explain the last 25 years that "real Cobras had such a horrible and bad roadholding and suspension, why should a kitcar handle better?"
You can hear this statement from all the kitcar owners and dealers to explain and excuse their bad products. In the understanding of these owners it became "reality" that kitcars where developed in the last 25 years to a level much higher then every real thing ever was.
So the crowd is willing to pay between 50.000 to 120.000 Euros for kitcars. They ignore and don't accept the quality of a MK IV. This is one reason they are willing to pay the same or more for a plastic instead of a MK IV.
Everytime in the past I tried to explain the advanced suspension of a coilsprung Cobra with anti dive and anti squad features they don't know about these details and don't want to beleave in this.
So add the Ford Small Block's bad reputation regarding horsepower here and You have one explanation why our MK IVs are completely underrated.
During every cobra replica meeting here you can hear some owners telling the audience that the real cars where soo bad and the kits nowadays are at least equal or better.
Fairy tales.....
Uwe
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Hi Uwe, I have raced several 289 Mk2, Mk3 and MkIV Cobras over the last 30 years as well as many other marques. Take it from me, there is nothing wrong with any of them, providing they are well prepared. The Mk2 handles like a go-kart, and requires a different style of driving, but I used to race 911 turbos, Ferrari F40s, Aston DB7s and beat them! Not bad for a 50 year old chassis. The Mk3 coil sprung and later Mk IV cars are more forgiving but a little heavier, and can be equally fast. Looking at the kit car racers, they have much stiffer chassis designed by some talented race car designers. A few are quicker than my old car, but then they run much bigger engines, with light alloy blocks. They can develop more horsepower, for the same weight. No wonder they are quicker. Answering Chafford, as long as investors only receive 0.5% on their cash, the prices of hand made Classic Cars will romp away. How much pleasure do you get from sitting on a bank statement showing £100,000. Now sit in a Cobra of the same value. No contest!
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Uwe.
Very interesting perspective on the German perceptions.
I must confess to having owned Ram Cobra back in the last century. The Ram chassis was designed by Adrian Newey and was renowned for being the best handling of all the replicas available. Mine was a factory built one so should have been as good as they get. I must admit that I expected my Superblower to have a less rigid structure and inferior handling when I took the plunge and had it built. Was very pleasantly surprised to find that this was not the case and that both cars had almost identical chassis characteristics. While the chassis felt remarkably similar the AC body is much more ridged so the overall feel was far superior. I am no engineer - but presume that a significant element of overall rigidity will be provided by the body and it's mounting and substructure. One piece of evidence I have for this is the experience of having a door fly open on a Superformance while being driven in one by Bob Bondurant who, at the time, was their US importer. As this car has a similar chassis to a "real " Cobra then the flex that generated this presumably resulted from a more floppy body.
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According to their sales literature, the Superformance MkIII body is not a stressed component.
quote:
Originally posted by SB7019
...One piece of evidence I have for this is the experience of having a door fly open on a Superformance while being driven in one by Bob Bondurant who, at the time, was their US importer. As this car has a similar chassis to a "real " Cobra then the flex that generated this presumably resulted from a more floppy body.
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quote:
Originally posted by shep
Hi Uwe, I have raced several 289 Mk2, Mk3 and MkIV Cobras over the last 30 years as well as many other marques. Take it from me, there is nothing wrong with any of them, providing they are well prepared. The Mk2 handles like a go-kart, and requires a different style of driving, but I used to race 911 turbos, Ferrari F40s, Aston DB7s and beat them! Not bad for a 50 year old chassis. The Mk3 coil sprung and later Mk IV cars are more forgiving but a little heavier, and can be equally fast.
Now wouldn't it be nice if someone raced one of those AC Mk111 Continuation cars with FIA papers [:)]
(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii504/Chafford1/mVPly9Du.jpg)
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The 427 would have to race against GT40s and Lola T70s etc. Not a level playing field.
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quote:
Originally posted by SB7019: The Ram chassis was designed by Adrian Newey and was renowned for being the best handling of all the replicas available...
I believe you meant Adrian Reynard, but it was reputedly the best! That said, a Newey-designed Cobra replica would be quite something, I`m sure! [;)]
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The majority of kitcars here are Dax sold as CN-Cobras, Sheldonhurst related cars and Pilgrims. Some GDs and Superformances and a view RAMs. My FE powered Crendon was one of 3 here. I think we have not more then 20 very well prepared Cobra kitcars here on the Street (not racing).
Andy, I allways explained the same to the guys here as You stated out in Your answer. They don't take it.
I really tried to get someting real since 86. In this year there where three 289 for sale here in Germany all between 40.000 and 48.000 DM, a Street Car, one Race Car and an other one I can't remember. I don't had the money in these days and decided to build kits and drive them because I'm Cobra grazy since I was 8.
I missed the last chance to get the real thing in 2001 to buy a black/black 289 for 190.000 DM or a red/black427 with rollhoop and side pipes for 220.000 DM, both from the same owner. I should have bought the 427 that year instead of the house.[;)]
Last year I got hold of my MK IV for a price close to 50.000 € and I love it.
O.K. I know it is not real in the opinion of some members here but again, I love it.
I expect myself not to be rich enough in the near future to buy a 60s car so AK 1106 will stay until they cancel my driving licence in 20 Years.....
Uwe
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Hi Trevor, Talking of GT 40s and a level playing field, when John Bendall and I raced his FIA 289 at the Le Mans Classic, we were beaten by only one GT 40, with 4 or 5 spitting out our dust, some way behind! Give me another 150 bhp with a 427 and you could sit back and watch the show. As I said before, people were amazed how the Orange Mk2 Cobra with its agricultural leaf springs, could beat a state of the art Ferrari F40 with all the bells and whistles. The Ace and Cobra chassis is quite special and for some reason it works very well. However like any magic, it doesn't bear analysis. If you jack up the front of an Ace, the front wheels assume ridiculous positive camber and toe in, but somehow on the road or track it works. We once tested the torsional rigidity of the Orange Cobra. We built a jig, and bolted the rear hubs to A frames and replaced the shocks with solid rods. We put a pivot under the front spring tower, and applied a twisting moment to the whole chassis via a 10 foot solid bar, bolted to the front of the chassis. We all fell about laughing, as it twisted like a toffee Curly Wurly! But again, don't knock it, because the flex in the chassis is part of the suspension, and somehow it works! There is another story about why we found 17 inch wheels with low profile tyres don't work on a Mk2 chassis, but I had better save it, and get on my weekend list of chores! Tomorrow (Sunday) I'm racing David Emmans' Ace Bristol at Brands, if anyone is about.
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Sir Shep (many belated congratulations, by the way :) I couldn't agree mor regarding flexi-cars. I used to rally and autotest (etc) a Frogeye and that thing performed way above its potential, aided by some suicidal driving...ahem....on road rallies of beloved memory.
The potential of a 427 was demonstrated on one occasion by Bill Murray at the Revival and he really drove that thing hard, finishing just outside the top ten at Goodwood, against the 'faster' cars. Just not quite enough to catch the GT40s (but I guess back then we're talking roller-rockers etc etc, are we not?)
The ability of an Ace-type chassis to flex was best demonstrated by Flavien Marcais at the Revival when he co-drove LOY 500, Nick Wigley's Tojeiro, in the first 'dusk' race. Flavien was really on it that day and I will alway remember the car visibly twisting as it went through Madgwick, holding second for much of the race against 3-litre C-types and Astons. It was ridiculous, but it worked, one of the best drives I've witnesed - proper fun! We went and checked the car afterwards and he'd split the paintwork all over the car, bits falling off in places!! That's what you call 'flex'.....I love it....
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quote:
Originally posted by westcott
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I missed the last chance to get the real thing in 2001 to buy a black/black 289 for 190.000 DM or a red/black427 with rollhoop and side pipes for 220.000 DM, both from the same owner. I shold have bought the 427 that year instead of the house.[;)]
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190,000 DM translate into 95,000 € or 77,000 GBP. Last year a 1963 260 Cobra was offered here for 385,000 € and sold shortly thereafter. I think this is a very good illustration of the increase of prices for vintage cars over the last decade as previously discussed in this thread.
Jürgen
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Thames Ditton Cobras are now the preserve of those who inherited them and City bankers - just as well Mk IVs and replicas are available for more ordinary mortals!
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It will be interesting to see what this sells for. RM indicates somewhere near $190,000 invested (cost plus restoration).
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=DM12&CarID=r147
John
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quote:
Originally posted by jrlucke
It will be interesting to see what this sells for. RM indicates somewhere near $190,000 invested (cost plus restoration).
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=DM12&CarID=r147
John
AK 1164 is a very nice car - the Sterling equivalents are £77,000 - £108,000.
I suspect the US obsession with having a 'CSX' chassis number will mean a low offer.
This one (below) at $89,000 (£55,000) is cheaper and certainly looks like an unmolested original example of a MkIV even though the chassis number is not quoted. Interesting colour scheme too!
http://www.bellevuecars.com/newandusedcars/8663/1735514/a2fb5e81-ca32-423b-8106-4fd2f2c869cf/none/1988-AutoKraft-Cobra-Bellevue-WA-98004.aspx
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quote:
Originally posted by dart427
- AC Cobra MKIV 460 & Tremec: 109 K€ , offered since a few Days..... We will see!
-AC Cobra MKIV 302 upgraded: 119.5K€, offered since 4 Years!!!!!!! Price a few weeks ago by 10K€ reduced.
Prices for MKIV are not underpriced. Prices for Plastic Kit Cars are extremely overpriced!
The value of a Car is exactly what a buyer is prepared to pay for it.
I have just seen that the asking price for the MkIV 460 has been reduced to 99,000 €.
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AK1121 is currently listed for sale on Club Cobra, at an asking price of $89,000 USD.
CLICK HERE: http://www.clubcobra.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=4564
No affiliation with the seller, just passing along the info.
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quote:
Originally posted by marklotus
I had my car AK1121, an excellent example, listed on Ebay at $89,000 and it didn't sell.
Probably not the right place to sell this type of car.