AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Recent ACs => Topic started by: Chafford on March 09, 2012, 20:54:35
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The new AC 378 GT Zagato - spiritual successor to the 428 Frua?
(http://www.automotivepr.com/cmsAdmin/uploads/IMG_6280_OK1.jpg)
(http://www.automotivepr.com/cmsAdmin/uploads/IMG_4159a_OK1_001.jpg)
(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii504/Chafford1/ac-378-gt-zagato_100385308_l.jpg)
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From the photos they look fabulous. I would love to try driving one quickly. They are obviously well developed models, so I suspect they were designed and produced without the help of AC Cars otherwise they would already have been "leaked" to the press many times before. As far as them being genuine ACs in the future, if they are produced in an AC Factory, preferably in the UK, by employees of AC Cars, then they will be no worse than the 428 Frua, 3000 ME, and possibly the Ace and Cobra as well. I will not judge until we all know the full story. Andy.
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I think the plan is to build this and the MK11 composite car at Hi Tech in South Africa who have a proven record in building quality cars - it should keep the price down as well.
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Thinking about it, AC's bacon has been saved in many decades before by taking over a well advanced prototype, and putting it into production. I love bacon sandwiches, how about you?
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I'll have mine with a 6.2 litre V8!
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Beautiful car though wouldn't fancy reversing one unless there was some sort of automatic audible warning or is it standard these days for these types of cars ?
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This is definitely a very nice car.
However it was born as the Zagato Perana Z-One, shown at the Geneva Motor show of 2009, that's three years ago!! No involvement of AC in the development!! Developed by Zagato in associaton with Basil Green Motors of Johannesburg(SA), a high quality upgrader of Ford motor cars (Cortina, Capri, Escort, Granada.. ) labelled Perana. The label now , 3 years later, has changed to AC on the Z-One.
The Perana.com webside is currently unavailable...
Maybe AC bought Basil Green Motors and substituted its name to Perana?
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Mole Valley Motors were going to be agents for Perana in this country and had the same image on their web site as a sales promo. I was tempted by a Perana (a gorgeous supercar at Merc money - now as an AC I would definitely buy one (regardless of what status the club gave it!!) [:)]
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Interesting slide show....
http://www.mole-valley.co.uk/slideshow.php?id=134
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quote:
Originally posted by CRS9505
Mole Valley Motors were going to be agents for Perana in this country and had the same image on their web site as a sales promo. I was tempted by a Perana (a gorgeous supercar at Merc money - now as an AC I would definitely buy one (regardless of what status the club gave it!!) [:)]
And it looks from their website that they are going to be AC dealers:
http://www.mole-valley.co.uk/show.php?id=134&category=Due%20Soon&make=AC&model=&srt=make%20ASC&p=40&submit=Search&page=1
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From my visit to the Geneva show yesterday no formal notice has been made on a UK dealer(s).
The exterior of the 378 GT Zagato will have a handful of, minor, cosmetic changes, the interior will have better leather than at present. Good driving position with everything where you would want it to be placed.
Terry
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Think we can assume Mole Valley is a dead cert as they show the Perana on their stock list. Also a Noble dealer, hence the tie-in as they both originate from the same source ;) plus they were briefly AC dealers for a while at their Horley base not far from me, circa 2000-ish.
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A few more press release photos:
(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii504/Chafford1/AC-378-GT-Zagato-5.jpg)
(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii504/Chafford1/AC-378-GT-Zagato-3.jpg)
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Or visit the Superformance site......?
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.... http://www.superformance.com/news_view.aspx?articleid=108
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Given half decent management, this car has every chance of being a success for AC - good looks, competitive price within its class, proven engine, design already developed and a long established factory where the car will be built. What could possibly go wrong?
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Article below makes you believe this may actually happen.
http://www.torquenews.com/1079/ac-cars-378-british-coupe-italian-zagato-dress
There are plenty of very nice cars out there priced below the rather optimistic $145k (£95k) price suggested in the attached article, would an AC badge add sufficient cred to make it sell at this figure?
As an example you could buy a Maserati Granturismo for approx £12k less.
I guess the most likely buyers would already be aware of the AC brand, may very well be members of the ACOC and as such would be mightily hacked of with AC Cars and their stance regarding the club badge etc - probably not a great idea to alienate your future customer base.
Having got that off my chest, if the price point was in line with the previous Perana Z-One incarnation at sub £50k this could be a very enticing proposition.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chafford...What could possibly go wrong?
OH PLEASE don`t say that!
I really hope that this is the rebirth that AC has long, long needed!
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My initial impression was "wow - it"'s gorgeous" and the more I look at it the prettier it becomes. Is it just me, or is there also some likeness - particularly in stance - to the A98 coupe?
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quote:
Originally posted by SB7019
My initial impression was "wow - it"'s gorgeous" and the more I look at it the prettier it becomes. Is it just me, or is there also some likeness - particularly in stance - to the A98 coupe?
Agreed.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BBM-uSUZcYc/TvqA7NrLm3I/AAAAAAAAENs/emgzw9WDISA/s1600/AC%2Ba98%2Bcoupe%2Bside.jpg)
(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii504/Chafford1/ac-378-gt-zagato_100385308_l.jpg)
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quote:
Originally posted by DGoose
Article below makes you believe this may actually happen.
http://www.torquenews.com/1079/ac-cars-378-british-coupe-italian-zagato-dress
There are plenty of very nice cars out there priced below the rather optimistic $145k (£95k) price suggested in the attached article, would an AC badge add sufficient cred to make it sell at this figure?
As an example you could buy a Maserati Granturismo for approx £12k less.
I guess the most likely buyers would already be aware of the AC brand, may very well be members of the ACOC and as such would be mightily hacked of with AC Cars and their stance regarding the club badge etc - probably not a great idea to alienate your future customer base.
Having got that off my chest, if the price point was in line with the previous Perana Z-One incarnation at sub £50k this could be a very enticing proposition.
The press release quotes just under £90k which compares well with a Jaguar XKR-S and the Maserati GranTurismo, neither of which, in my opinion, have the looks or the exclusivity of the AC. The 378 is also half the price of the Noble M600.
http://www.automotivepr.com/news_detail.php?AC-returns-to-Geneva-with-four-car-line-up-including-a-new-supercar-1064
TVR made the mistake of pricing their cars too cheaply resulting in customers carrying out the final development work. AC can't afford to make the same mistake.
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I can't help my critical mind to raise the question as to "why didn't this supercar sell since its presentation on the Geneva Motor Show of 2009 as the Perana Z-One?"
The answer perhaps resides in the fact that it has been developed though by Zagato but in association with a rather unknown partner. Zagato being primarily a designer and body manufacturer. Had it been the product of a well established car manufacturer in association with Zagato, the result might have been different!
Now we know (do we?) that AC had no fingers in its development, is it reasonable to believe that the simple replacement of a few badges by AC badges would make it sell?
I would have loved to see the Malta operation of AC develop into a well established manufacturing site and be responsible for the development of a car like this in association with a company like Zagato or another recognized designer.
Instead they jump on a bandwagon seizing the opportunity to rebadge a product that failed to impress potential customers during 3 years of existence.
Now why are cars selling these days? Because they are the natural development of a line: example Jaguar XKR, Aston Martin Vantage, Mercedes SLS AMG etc... at the right pricing for sure! But it takes a hell lot of advertising and promotional efforts to accompany the launch of such vehicles. For example early 2010 Mercedes Benz had organized customer days during 3 weeks at Le Castellet race track to allow select potential customers test their new baby during half day sessions! (I had the pleasure to be part of a group of MB customers from Luxembourg). Look at the advertising budgets spent on the launch of vehicles by even the well established manufacturers. AC even haven't put the resources into updating their website, featuring the products that they actually want to sell.
So I do have my serious doubts of whether this is going to be good for our beloved marque?
Constant
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I am not privvy to any of the details of the AC agreement with Hi Tech, the manufacturer, so I will not comment on the pricing or distribution details.
As to the previous version (Perana Z-One) "not selling", it was not offered for sale in the EU as the certification was not completed. The Can-Bus electrical system took much longer than expected to develop and the help from General Motors was less trhan was was anticipated.
The big hold up was the distribution was committed to a Swiss "businessman" who never followed through on his commitments, both financial and distribution wise.
Hi Tech has had a tough couple of years and the productionization of the car has taken longer and cost more that expected.
It is a hell of a product, I had the US demonstrator in my shop for a while and I am very impressed with the design and execution. There are many bespoke parts on the car that on other low volume cars would be parts bins specials.
If we get the "small volume exemption" law passed in the US that is under consideration, this will sell well here when offered as complete car rather than as a "rolling chassis" for owner completion as the law currently requires
Despite my previous experiences with "AC", I would distribute this in a heartbeat.
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Seeing the beautiful outline of A98 and the 378 together there is a resemblance, which then makes you wonder if there's any racing programme planned.
Anyone know who designed the A98 as my feeling is it could well have been Derek himself !
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A98 = Alan Turner. (Derek..????) Got the aerodynamics right, straight out of the box :)
Now that HiTech is back on track (thankfully) I look forward to seeing the Perana in the metal as it's a stonking shape. Always did have a thing for Zagato. I think it makes an interesting alternative to the cars mentioned above. Having sampled a 75th-edition top-end XKR I can confirm it goes like a Superformance Daytona which is saying something...but it's still a Jaaag...like the Maserati apart from the naff 'choice' of gearbox and the Merc is luvverly but as wide as a London bus. But - and it's a big but - for the money they will have to get the quality of the interior spot 0n!
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(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii504/Chafford1/2012-ac-378-gt-zagato-5_1600x0w.jpg)
(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii504/Chafford1/2012-ac-378-gt-zagato-6_1600x0w.jpg)
(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii504/Chafford1/2012-ac-378-gt-zagato-4_1600x0w.jpg)
(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii504/Chafford1/2012-ac-378-gt-zagato-7_1600x0w.jpg)
You can download these pictures here:
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/ac-cars/2012-ac-378-gt-zagato-ar126048/picture442445.html
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quote:
Originally posted by SB7019: My initial impression was "wow - it"'s gorgeous" and the more I look at it the prettier it becomes. Is it just me, or is there also some likeness - particularly in stance - to the A98 coupe?
I think it most resembles the Shelby GR-1:
(http://www.tuningnews.net/news/040817/ford-shelby-gr1-07.jpg)
(http://www.tuningnews.net/news/040817/ford-shelby-gr1-08.jpg)
The project that was dropped in favour of the Ford GT. Shame, I loved the look of it!
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I read recently of a plan to build that bad boy. Who knows? As always, Ford missed the boat.
Can I say the Zagato in Gulf colours look c**p. And it can't be sold in the USA in that paint scheme due to copyright :)
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Nick.
Can I slip my anorak on and point out that the GR-1 was first shown in 2005 as a potential follow up to the Ford GT after production of the GT ended?
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You certainly can, Peter! I must also agree with the Cobra Czar about the 378 in Gulf colours!
Quite like the nose without the eggcrate grill though, as in the Shelby blue'n'white pic, and I`d prefer the opening to be a bit more "289" than "427" too, like this:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7066/6842128796_944f3f606b_z.jpg)(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7058/6988266985_40e9306bc2_z.jpg)r
But that`s just me!
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quote:
Originally posted by TLegate
I read recently of a plan to build that bad boy. Who knows? As always, Ford missed the boat.
Can I say the Zagato in Gulf colours look c**p. And it can't be sold in the USA in that paint scheme due to copyright :)
Mr. Czar,
No, the paint scheme is NOT copyright. The ability to call it a "Gulf" scheme is.
I sell Superformance GT40s with a blue/orange color design that is called "heritage". Just as did Ford with the Ford GT in 2006, they couldn't use the "Gulf" descrition but rather called it a "heritage" design.
More than one way to skin that cat (FYI, they are only good deep fried with some cajun seasoning)
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Happy to stand corrected Lord Muck, I read it wrong. We do like a nice bit of 'Heritage' here at Legate Towers (just not fond of the combination marigold and baby blue :)
I'll take your word regarding the cat recipe. You foreign chappies do have some funny habits...still recovering from some of the things on the lunch menu when we stopped in Lexington on the Cobra Tour. I think they served road kill :(
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
quote:
Originally posted by SB7019: My initial impression was "wow - it"'s gorgeous" and the more I look at it the prettier it becomes. Is it just me, or is there also some likeness - particularly in stance - to the A98 coupe?
I think it most resembles the Shelby GR-1:
(http://www.tuningnews.net/news/040817/ford-shelby-gr1-07.jpg)
(http://www.tuningnews.net/news/040817/ford-shelby-gr1-08.jpg)
The project that was dropped in favour of the Ford GT. Shame, I loved the look of it!
The GR-1 is not as good looking as the 378.
If AC are to maximise sales they should offer an automatic gearbox option - all the rivals do and the Corvette engine has a ready made gearbox solution.
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378 GT Zagato Rear View
(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii504/Chafford1/AC-378-GT-Zagato-Coda-Salone-di-Ginevra.jpg)
The whole AC range: 378 GT Zagato, MKVI, aluminium and composite Mk11s
(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii504/Chafford1/AC-378-GT-Zagato-Dettaglio-Salone-di-Ginevra.jpg)
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If we get the "small volume exemption" law passed in the US that is under consideration, this will sell well here when offered as complete car rather than as a "rolling chassis" for owner completion as the law currently requires
I was not aware of such an effort. Is that a SEMA initiative that will be introduced in the individual states, or will this be a federal thing? That would rock the world of hot rodders and replica manufacturers.
Gus
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Leave it to a new yorker from Buffalo to tell you fried cat in Cajun seasoning is good...
Gus
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quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
If we get the "small volume exemption" law passed in the US that is under consideration, this will sell well here when offered as complete car rather than as a "rolling chassis" for owner completion as the law currently requires
I was not aware of such an effort. Is that a SEMA initiative that will be introduced in the individual states, or will this be a federal thing? That would rock the world of hot rodders and replica manufacturers.
Gus
It is a federal proposal. I would think SEMA will support it. The bill will reduce the NHTSA safety requirements for small volume manufacturers and allow for easier "piggybacking" of EPA certification. The AC 378 Zagato would piggyback on the Corvette EPA certification.
See http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/29/bill-introduced-to-give-low-volume-vehicle-manufacturers-a-break/ for info.
Gee Gus, I post one time about "deep fried Kitty" and I'm branded for life! Well, maybe it WAS more than once!
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At £90k, AC must provide an automatic gearbox option otherwise they'll lose sales. Even Morgan with their Aero Coupe and the latest Plus 8 Roadster offer automatics.
Given that GM already provide an automatic 6 speed for the LS3 engine, a suitable gearbox should be readily available.
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The Zagato was offered on the website (http://www.ac-automotive.com/) and disappeared a couple of days ago... I guess that the new AC is still struggling for its survival.
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I saw that, but probably a case of advertising the car (no prices were given) before it's ready for sale. The press release before the recent Goodwood Festival of Speed was much more optimistic:
http://www.automotivepr.com/news_detail.php?UK-preview-for-new-AC-supercar-at-Goodwood-Festival-1149
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Thanks for the update.
I am also optimistic as I ordered a MK VI early in 2011 after having driven the prototype in Autumn 2010, and still waiting for delivery, which is announced between October 2012 and April 2013.
It has been a long journey with many promises and the journey goes on as news are very rare from AC. This reminds me Sir Jeremy Mackenzie statement in The Telegraph back in July 2012: "The problem for AC in recent years has been an inability to meet the demands of dealers, and any company that can’t meet the expectations of its clients is doomed to failure", not mentioning meeting the needs of customers!
Well as far as I own the rolling chassis now (chassis and engine nb. have been yet confirmed in written form, so far), I am confident I will get the car sometimes in the coming months but it is quite an adventure reviving the AC brand. I really hope for this success as AC has been the car maker I cherished already as a kid and the AC legacy deserves it.
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According to this press release, the 378GT Zagato is now on sale in the UK in rhd form for £99,990 although there doesn't appear to be an up to date AC website yet.
http://www.automotivepr.com/news_detail.php?AC-378-GT-Zagato-wows-at-Auto-e-Moto-d-Epoca-2012-1255
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Good to read all these press releases, thanks Mark for sharing. It seems that Sir Jeremy is instilling a new momentum into AC and revigorating the brand. Things move forward.
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I'm not sure Sir Jeremy has instilled much momentum into AC. As far as I'm aware, the 378GT Zagato hasn't yet been launched in the UK. Shades of the gestation period for the 3000ME?
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Sir J does not even have the decency to respond to emails addressed to him, chosing instead to forward to others, who seem to have little interest in addressing issues and moving the company forward - not what one would expect given the PR in 2012
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Rob, Mark, Emmanuel,
A UK company records check doesn't list Sir J (UK director no 909894986) as a current or previous director of any of AC´s UK companies.
He may, however, be or have been associated with one or more of AC´s offshore companies in less regulated jurisdictions (such as the Netherlands Antilles, Cyprus and Malta).
RS
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Also checked the companies register some time ago when I was trying to make contact and found the same result. The Chairman position of AC Cars (Eu) Ltd is one that has been stated in earlier forums (http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2269) and in the press. The company name has been registered in several countries, so it is anyones guess as to the structures of these. Since the 2012 PR Sir J's absence has been rather conspicuous in promoting the company, so one must wonder if there has been a falling out at the top, or perhaps he's just seen the light
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After the launch at Geneva 2012, I had high hopes that this was the start of the marque's revival. Very disappointed therefore that AC Heritage's blue 378GT Zagato appears still to be the only one in the UK.
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I would love to get one on the track! With a little bit of work I bet it would go as well as it looks. Sad the AC project hasn't made more progress, but development and launch of a production vehicle must be prohibitively expensive with all the 'elf 'n safety and associated bureaucracy. Now 50 years ago it would have been a different story, or is that me becoming a sad old git?
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Small correction: Sad the AC project hasn't made ANY progress. Can't for the life of me think why :(
Oh well, there's a quick yuan to be made elsewhere I'm sure
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I think Bond would like it, if this is anything to go by:
(http://i2.examiner.co.uk/incoming/article8227054.ece/alternates/s615/JS52247238.jpg) (http://"http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/spectre-new-james-bond-movie-8226440")
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I'm rather in favour of 'elf n safety, having witnessed some really terrible industrial accidents in the 60s that wouldn't happen with the current regime, which is for the most part very sensible and what the electorate wants.
The chance of being killed in a fatal road accident is 80% less now than it was 50 years ago, not a bad achievement.
RS
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quote:
Originally posted by rstainer
I'm rather in favour of 'elf n safety, having witnessed some really terrible industrial accidents in the 60s that wouldn't happen with the current regime, which is for the most part very sensible and what the electorate wants.
The chance of being killed in a fatal road accident is 80% less now than it was 50 years ago, not a bad achievement.
RS
Having worked in heavy engineering - power stations and ships - for more than 50 years I fully agree with RS. Commercial aircraft too have benefitted from vastly improved approaches to safety - about a factor of 10 less likely to have a serious accident now than circa 1960.
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Here's a 378 GT recently spotted in South Africa:
http://gtspirit.com/2015/07/19/rare-ac-378-gt-zagato-snapped-in-cape-town/