AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: MkIV Lux on January 25, 2012, 21:00:10
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Hi folks,
Can anybody supply photos of the mounting of antisway bars:
- as factory fitted on Mk IV Lightweights?
and/or
- as fitted on Redline's kit?
Thanks in advance.
Constant
cchw.consulting@pt.lu
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I'm interested in answers, too ... thanks !
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I'd be keen to see some images of how they are mounted also, if anyone can help.
Regards
Gary
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I found this on the internet a while ago.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/rollFbig041.jpg)
I was supplied a set of anti-roll bars from AC Cars a few years ago. I am only now at the stage of fitting them. I will post a few images along the way.
Gary
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The pic shows the front part of the Redline kit. This helps!! Thanks Gary.
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May I suggest you contact Alec or Alan at Thunder Road Speed Shop 01483 763399 or see their website http://thunderroadspeedshop.co.uk/index.html
Regards
Malcolm
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I am in the process of fitting the front and rear anti roll bars to my car. Some of you may know that my car was made by AC Cars in 2001 however it was never completed before AC folded. My car is chassis number: ACSB7020- (a Superblower)
I have over the last few years been steadily completing the build with the expert assistance of Steve Gray from Brooklands Motor Company and help and advise from members of this forum. The car is really coming on now and I hope it may be finished next year!
Below I will detail the parts and hopefully show the fitment of the anti roll bars.
I will start with the front set-up;
The first image shows the front off-side suspension, you may be able to see the offside chassis mount for the front anto roll bar. There is a second identical attachment on the nearside. The second image is a more close up picture.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Superblowerbodyprep194.jpg)
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Superblowerbodyprep196.jpg)
The following image shows the front anti roll bar and fixings;
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/P1060534.jpg)
This next image shows a closer view of the eye end joints, I obtained these parts from Autosport Bearings here in the UK and I may have the part numbers if anyone needs them. One eye end fits into the end of the anti roll bar with a 7/16 UNF bolt (if memory serves me right), the other end fixes onto a mounting point on the lower wish bone (A arm)
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/P1060538.jpg)
The next image shows the chassis mounting blocks. They are two piece items, one side has a grease nipple. They are attached to the chassis with 3/8 UNF x 2 1/2 inch bolts.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/P1060539.jpg)
Tomorrow I hope to fit this to the car so will post further images if all goes well.
The rear bar set-up I similar to the front.
The image below shows the bar.The bar is narrower than the front one;
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/P1060542.jpg)
It is attached to the chassis with two brackets (Ford items- I can supply the part numbers if required. The next images shows the brackets. I have yet to buy the bushes but they won't be a problem to source;
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/P1060548.jpg)
The next image shows the end fitting, they are very similar to the front but the attachment bolts are smaller (i think 3/8 UNF of 5/16 UNF, but would have to check for you if required)
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/P1060544.jpg)
I will attach this to the car once I have the bushes and will post images of it installed.
The anti roll bars themselves came from John Owen from AC Cars, which I bought off him a few years ago. I had them powder coated this last few days as they were a bit tatty. All the other components are from Autosport Bearings.
Hope this has been of some help.
Gary
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Hi,following on with this thread which was started in ealy 2012, has anyone got any images of the rear anti-roll bar fitted to the Superblowers? I,m struggling to identify where the bar attaches to which rear suspension component. I have offered up the rear bar on my car and it seems to locate across the rear trailing arm and very close to it. I have seen the fitment of the bar on a lightweight and it attaches to one of the trailing arm attachment bolts, but this doesn't seem to be possible with the location and mounting point on the Superblower. I'd be very greatful if anyone could advise.
Many thanks
Gary
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Hi Gary, here is some detail on the Redline kit that I now have had finally installed on my MkIV.
The short eye end rods link the antiroll bar to the suspension in the following way:
- the upper end attaches to the front of the main bolt securing the shock absorber at its lower end. Off record, the lower suspension part is formed by an inverse triangle attached to the chassis by a pivot point at the end of the main rail and by the trailing arm. The shock attaches by means of a main bolt to the rear of this triangle at its outer but not far end, a couple of cms inside from the pivot axis holding the upright's lower end. This main bolt is to be replaced by one that is drilled coaxially by creating a female path at its very end (where the outer male path is; so you have the bolt end formed by a cavity with female path with a male path on the outside). This is the forward pointing end of the bolt as it passes through the triangle's rear square tube, into which now coaxially the small bolt drives for securing the eye end. Now the small eye end rod passes down through the interior of the lower triangle.
- the lower end of the eye end rod attaches to the antiroll bar end (a couple of cms further rearwards than the attachment of the trailing arm) by means of a bolt that drives coaxially into the rollbar end (drilled with a female path).
Hope this is clear, otherwise I will have to take a picture or two over the coming w/e.
I made a little drawing [:)]
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w34/MkIVLux/AC%20Mk%20IV%20Technical/ACCobraMkIVrearsuspensionantirollbarfitting_zpsdc2f5e90.jpg)
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When Big Al (now Thunder Road) was with us at Uniclip Automotive, we spent a lot of time developing the suspension and sway bar (roll bar) kits. He knows better than any what works. We started with Aluminium blocks, and used collared bronze bush bearings, but found some Poly Urethane blocks which were even better, and didn't need bearings. To prevent lateral movement we welded half washers to the roll bars, but a couple of worm drive clips and washers will also work. Get drifting!
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Hi Constant.
Fantastic information!! Thank you.
I've been scratching my head trying to weigh up where the attachment was for the other end of the bearing eye. I already have the other end secured in the anti roll bar but couldn't figure this bit out. It's all clear now! Basically I have to tap a thread in the end of the lower shock absorber mounting bolt. Easy! If memory serves me right the 'eye end' bolt is 3/8 of an inch but will double check.
I will post an image of the completed job in due course.
Thanks once again.
Kind regards
Gary
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you got it, Gary!
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Hi Gary,
All your pictures from your Photobucket Album are deleted ... Do not know if it is intentional, but if not, could you please restore them ? Thanks [;)] !
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guess this is due to Photobucket.. maybe in relation to the upgrade of their site.. I have same trouble with the drawing I added at my post of 8 January....
it is now fixed again
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Thanks, Constant... What is your feedback about the rear ARB ? I fitted one (19mm), custom made, at the front, and appreciate the stiffer front end when cornering, but now I'm thinking about fiiting also one to the rear (16mm, as I don't want too much oversteer), as I felt the rear was a bit loose on hard cornering ...
Could post some pics of your ARB installed ? Thanks !
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It's taken some time for me to complete the fitting of the rear anti-roll bar, (only due to other commitments) but here goes.
This image shows the lower shock absorber bolt aligned with the eye end and bolt.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060925.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/Superarnie/media/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060925.jpg.html)
The lower suspension bolt was drilled and tapped to receive the eye end bolt.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060923.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/Superarnie/media/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060923.jpg.html)
Next I installed a polyeuethane bush with a 19mm hole in it to fit over the ARB. I placed a large washer on the inside face. I will later place a jubilee type clip up to the washer to prevent lateral movement of the ARB.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060915_zpsf7483221.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/Superarnie/media/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060915_zpsf7483221.jpg.html)
The next image shows the mounting brackets which fit over the bush and clamp the ARB to the chassis. It is a Ford part. I have the part number if anyone requires it.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060548.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/Superarnie/media/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060548.jpg.html)
One end of the eye end is then bolted to the end of the ARB.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060546.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/Superarnie/media/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060546.jpg.html)
This next image shows the bar bolt to the chassis pick up point.(Note jubilee clip installed)
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060928.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/Superarnie/media/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060928.jpg.html)
And finally the ARB is connected to the lower suspension bolt.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060930.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/Superarnie/media/Superblower%20Build%20Suspension/P1060930.jpg.html)
You will notice that the ARB is very close to the trailing arm. I am hoping that when the car is off it's tressels the suspension won't be 'drooped' and handing down as it is now and will then give a degree of clearance. As my car is still in the build stage it will be some time until it will be off the tressels. If anyone can advise on this point I'd be very grateful.
Regards
Gary
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Incidentally, my friend has a Mk 1V lightweight. His rear ARB arrangement is differenet to mine. Here are a couple of images.
The first shows that the eye end is mounted to the attachment bolt of the trailing arm;
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Billys%20Mk4%20Lightweight/P1060862_zps6d242d75.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/Superarnie/media/Billys%20Mk4%20Lightweight/P1060862_zps6d242d75.jpg.html)
The chassis pick up points appear to be in the same locations as on my Superblower chassis;
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Billys%20Mk4%20Lightweight/P1060860_zps27167758.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/Superarnie/media/Billys%20Mk4%20Lightweight/P1060860_zps27167758.jpg.html)
and another one, the bushes are different to mine as well.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Billys%20Mk4%20Lightweight/P1060861_zpsb9b52fba.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/Superarnie/media/Billys%20Mk4%20Lightweight/P1060861_zpsb9b52fba.jpg.html)
Hope this has been of some value.
Gary
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Garry -your antiroll set up is as per my CRS.(It may have been done by redline but not 100% sure)
The pictures of the other set up show the "U" brackets with ground out flats (bottomed) so wonder if they are set up deliberately like that.
Also see no handbrake cables in either type of set up above. I run my cable between the antiroll bar and the chassis, not below to protect them, having tried both find that's best. Main mounting on my CRS
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj101/flyinghorse_lc/IMG_0121_zpsef9bfb29.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj101/flyinghorse_lc/IMG_0126_zps9bc6ce44.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj101/flyinghorse_lc/IMG_0120_zps3c23a3f6.jpg)
Note last shot shows handbrake cable below the ARB. It needs to be above.
Graham
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Graham, do you have the same amount of space between the collar & mounting clamp on the opposite side? Looks like a lot of lateral movement!
Is there a bush between the clamps & the bar, and are the clamps ali?
It`s interesting to see the variations in each of these cars to achieve the same end. Very informative thread!
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Nik,
I keep tightening it & it moves as its a lot of force for a small collar to stop, but I believe it needs to move (or float) in this set up as its connected to a pivot point at the base of each shock and as a wheel moves up or down it will exert a lateral force to the area of the clamps which are alloy. There is a grease nipple in the base of each clamp
I still think its still performing its anti roll duty as that is more torsional and perhaps gives a "softer" setting.
This set up's been on this car since 2005,way before I got it.
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Agreed, it`s a lot to ask one small grubscrew to hold!
Can`t argue with it`s performance over 8 years, it`s a nice looking setup.
Happy motoring, all 3 of you!
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quote:
Originally posted by Flyinghorse
.... but I believe it needs to move (or float) in this set up as its connected to a pivot point at the base of each shock and as a wheel moves up or down it will exert a lateral force to the area of the clamps ....
Graham, I can't really agree on this theory that the bar itself would need to move laterally.
The ARB is attached on the wheel side by two rod ends which hence allow for any possible relative position of suspension triangle to end of ARB.
If the ARB is allowed a lateral movement, then part of its effect is neutralized, but rather in a random way.
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Constant,
I agree with you that the rose joint links should take the movement of the wheel. On my set up I think the issue is the stop collars are poorly mounted with the grub screw just touching the ARB. I need a small drilling /depression in the ARB for the grub screw to sit into so it locks more firmly into position. I could also try the Jubilee clip idea.
That should tighten things up.
Thanks.
Graham
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yes Graham, I think a small cavity to locate the grub screw should do the job
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hi all,
thanks for sharing these very informative pictures ! could you please precise what are your ARB diameter ? I'd go for a 16mm in order to not make the car oversteer (I now have a 19mm front ARB), but advices much appreciated [;)] !
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will measure front and rear ARBs over the w/e for you [:)]
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Thanks Constant !
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I have 22.5mm at front and 19.5mm at rear on CRS
Graham
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For what it may be worth, my Superblower has 22.5mm front and rear
Regards
Paul
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Paul, is your Superblower rear set-up the same as I have outlined earlier in this thread on my own car?
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Garry
Yes indeed it does
Paul
ps I tried to email you with details when the issue was first raised but presumably your address has changed from that in the members details
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For what it's worth, Thunder Road made and fitted a front anti-roll / anti-sway bar to the front of my car and it made a massive improvement to handling. They advised against fitting a rear bar saying it wasn't really needed for the road. they said even when they fit one to a race car they disconnect it for wet weather racing.
BTW - T-R make each bar to fit a specific car, so can't do mail-order.
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Following John's ( Cobham Cobra) recommendation I had TR do the same work on my car and am absolutely delighted with the results. They made and fitted a front ARB and reset the suspension to their specifications . This in combination with 15" Avons has created a car with very nice handling, roadholding and braking with no detriment to the ride. TR's view is that a rear ARB can make the ride too harsh for normal road use and is only really suitable if you plan to do some serious track work. I know that Spikey Fish has a TR rear ARB as well ( with much lower rear ride height settings ) but he does get round a track in class winning times!