AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => 428 Frua Forum => Topic started by: Emmanueld on January 06, 2007, 19:36:04
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Hello,
I am wondering, does anyone know how may AC Frua are left? We know AC built 29 convertibles, 51 coupes and 3 special bodied cars. Some rotted away, some were converted into Cobras, some perished in road accident or went to the wreckers yard. Anyones guess? Maybe If you guys list your serial numbers we can get an idea of how many and where they are!!
Los Angeles, CA CFX54 BRG roadster! [:)]
Emmanuel
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q271/Emmanueld_2007/428/104_0469.jpg)
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What a superb convertible
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Nice neighbourhood, too!
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
Nice neighbourhood, too!
Amazing what could be done with a 427 frame, a 428 Ford powerplant and sheet metal. A gentlemans Cobra saloon (not sure if this is the right term for a convertable.
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Emmanuel
What a magnificent car! If you need info on the 428 you might get in touch with this clubs 428 registrar - Andy Shepherd
M-A
CRS #22
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A right fine "gentlemans express"
Rick
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I think a gent like me should own one, so I'm starting a collection. Send your used $ and £ to........
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Trevor,
Charity starts at home...MY HOUSE!![:D]
I had the pleasure of having a 428 automatic coupe (CA68 I think) a RHD car with some hard miles on it for mechanical work a few years back. Fun to drive, a bit dicey to work on, as for example the brake boosters required the lower front body under the bumper to be "tweaked" to allow them to come out. It was also painfully obvious that the "tin-worm" had fed on this car but still in all I would love one. A great, powerful way to eat up miles at a right good pace.
Rick
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Is that an Autocraft MK V ? It looks GREAT !
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Yes, yes, it's a MkV (sigh) But seriously, where does all this 'Auto(C)raft' stuff come from......?
I was about to comment on the fact that, in the current issue of C&SC, page 178, there is a remarkable comment from a dealer (Hurst Park) who has a 428 for sale. He has had five calls from people wanting to convert it into a Cobra..!! Weird. It would almost be cheaper to buy a proper Cobra, rather than end up with a non-Cobra Cobra. Who are these people?
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Trevor, how much were they asking for it ?
Nice looking car.
(http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/dbimages/0189975001168647980.jpg)
Thank you for pointing out the "K" in Autokraft.
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Emmanuel,
Someone has already pointed you in the direction of Andy Shepherd. He runs the register and will be able to give you a good steer. From memory survival rate is pretty good - in one form or another.
But a small aside on the oft published production figures, for I believe there to have been 31 convertibles and 50 fastbacks produced, not the 29/51 quoted by all.
Why? In the late 70s I ran CF17, a manual convertible and CF 19, an auto fastback. There wasn't much written about the 428 then so I did a bit of my own research and ran my own register. First point of call was the factory. They told me 29/51. I still have the letter, and so perhaps I am responsible for these figures being set down in stone.
However, in corrspondence with other owners whenever I heard of a car I learnt that one of the cars ACs listed as a fastback was in fact a convertible. This was a CFX car exported to the USA. So 30/50.
The 31st convertible is CF 81. This was to be a 'mkll' version of the 428, identical in spec to the ones that went before, save for fold down headlights. The car lay in the factory unfinished for some years before being completed in the early/mid 80s. It still survives, and is not to be confused with the 4 seater prototype which was a totally different car. Hence 31/50.
Change your auto box for manual? I wouldn't bother personally. That 428 suits the auto box so well. My party trick with CF 17 (manual)was to start off in top gear, which is a measure of just how torquey the motor is. And the auto was just much nicer to drive.
Hope this might be of interest.
Tim.
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quote:
Originally posted by Trevor Legate
I was about to comment on the fact that, in the current issue of C&SC, page 178, there is a remarkable comment from a dealer (Hurst Park) who has a 428 for sale. He has had five calls from people wanting to convert it into a Cobra..!! Weird. It would almost be cheaper to buy a proper Cobra, rather than end up with a non-Cobra Cobra. Who are these people?
Probably reflects the rising value of the original 427 S/C. Lets hope this isn't a new trend for people who think they can make a fast buck.
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Unfortunately, I have heard that quite a few 428 were turned into Cobras. It makes it easier for Cobra registration here in the US. However, 428 prices are moving up, I think the main problem is that not enough cars were built, they rotted too easily and they required a bit of work to make them drivable (enjoyable). Coupes are still cheaper than Montervedis and Bizzarinis but they are actually much better automobiles! Made out of steel and with a race bread chassis. If anybody think that by using a 428 chassis his kit-car will be worth more, he is an idiot! buy a MKIV or a Kirkham for that!
The main problem is that most people have never seen 428s' and when they see one they don't know what it is!
I always heard the AC made 29 convertibles and 3 special bodied cars.
Emmanuel
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quote:
Originally posted by tim isles
Emmanuel,
Someone has already pointed you in the direction of Andy Shepherd. He runs the register and will be able to give you a good steer. From memory survival rate is pretty good - in one form or another.
But a small aside on the oft published production figures, for I believe there to have been 31 convertibles and 50 fastbacks produced, not the 29/51 quoted by all.
Why? In the late 70s I ran CF17, a manual convertible and CF 19, an auto fastback. There wasn't much written about the 428 then so I did a bit of my own research and ran my own register. First point of call was the factory. They told me 29/51. I still have the letter, and so perhaps I am responsible for these figures being set down in stone.
However, in corrspondence with other owners whenever I heard of a car I learnt that one of the cars ACs listed as a fastback was in fact a convertible. This was a CFX car exported to the USA. So 30/50.
The 31st convertible is CF 81. This was to be a 'mkll' version of the 428, identical in spec to the ones that went before, save for fold down headlights. The car lay in the factory unfinished for some years before being completed in the early/mid 80s. It still survives, and is not to be confused with the 4 seater prototype which was a totally different car. Hence 31/50.
Change your auto box for manual? I wouldn't bother personally. That 428 suits the auto box so well. My party trick with CF 17 (manual)was to start off in top gear, which is a measure of just how torquey the motor is. And the auto was just much nicer to drive.
Hope this might be of interest.
Tim.
Thanks for your comments.
This is a car I drive on weekends, the motor is quite a bit more powerfull than when it was stock, the problem is that 3 gears are not enough, when launching from a stop the car stay in first way past the engine margin of safety, about 6000 rpm, the same thing happens when using the kickdown. I will save all the parts and pass them down to a future owner when the time comes. I actually like to change gears, it's more fun, also the car will be quite a bit faster as the converter waste quite a bit of power!
Emmanuel
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Thanks to Tim Isles for the input on how many 428's were actually manufactured. I too have heard that some 428's were rebodied as Cobras, though it (now) seems a pretty silly thing to have done.
A white Fastback was offered for sale in Hemmings Motor News (USA) months ago (perhaps July or August 2006) - it looked pretty forlorn in photos, but was supposedly intact. I imagine if the body is really too far gone to be salvaged, the temptation to rebody it as a Cobra would be hard to resist. Cheaper and easier than trying to recreate a Frua body.
My own car (CFX29) has apparently been unaccounted for since it left the factory in 1969 - at least Andy Shepherd has no record of it. I'm happy to report that it is in really excellent condition, with a recorded mileage of 43,000 miles. No rust or accident damage to be seen, but you could certainly fry an egg on the transmission console after 20 minutes on the road. I'm going to fix that with dynamat, some sheet metal and devising an escape route for hot engine air. And an A/C unit. I certainly have no need of a heater.
I've diverged from the thread, but has anyone seen a sucessful A/C installation in a 428?
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Guys,
F.Y.I.
Hurst Park are selling an automatic 428. It has had everything done that needs doing and is in (according to them) 1st class condition. It has had many many thousands spent on it and it is a 60,000 mile car (high 50's actually).
They say they can show receipts for work on the car totalling over £90,000! and they claim a full service history. Be that as it may it can't justify the asking price of . . . are you sitting down? . . . £60,000 ! ! !
Not only are they not kidding, but they claim to have sold another 428 (silver/manual) in the last 6 months for the same money.
It's not that I doubt them but a 428 can't be worth more than £30,000 of anyone's money, even a manual convertible can't be much more than £35,000.
We'll see how long they sit on it I guess
As to anyone buying a 428 and converting it to a 427 I personally would like to burn such philistines at the stake. A good Kirkham would be a better bet, and cheaper. Though you would of course be able to drop a genuine 427/428 into a converted Frua without any MOT problems.
Still . . . the horror.
Mark-Anthony
CRS #22
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I know that five 428s have definately been 'converted' and I suspect it may be a higher figure than that. I would have thought that Andy S should know? No? There was an article about the process in an issue of ACtion a few years back. I do have some photos of one such car, now registered 5ALD if I recall. It's a short-nosed AC289 clone and looks good with green paintwork. I took some photos of it at one of the ACOC Sprints at Gooders not so long ago. I shall trawl my archives.....
The 428 was Derek Hurlock's favoured mode of transport and who could blame him?
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark-Anthony
Guys,
Be that as it may it can't justify the asking price of . . . are you sitting down? . . . £60,000 ! ! !
Not only are they not kidding, but they claim to have sold another 428 (silver/manual) in the last 6 months for the same money.
It's not that I doubt them but a 428 can't be worth more than £30,000 of anyone's money, even a manual convertible can't be much more than £35,000.
We'll see how long they sit on it I guess
Mark-Anthony
CRS #22
Why, With Cobra prices at a all time high, Isos' selling above $250K, convertible Mistrals and Giblis hitting above $150K. The 428 is both rarer and technically superior. It should actually sell for more than these cars!
I think the problem is it's rarity and the fact that most cars are in horrible condition.
Emmanuel
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark-Anthony
Guys,
F.Y.I.
Hurst Park are selling an automatic 428. It has had everything done that needs doing and is in (according to them) 1st class condition. It has had many many thousands spent on it and it is a 60,000 mile car (high 50's actually).
They say they can show receipts for work on the car totalling over £90,000! and they claim a full service history. Be that as it may it can't justify the asking price of . . . are you sitting down? . . . £60,000 ! ! !
Not only are they not kidding, but they claim to have sold another 428 (silver/manual) in the last 6 months for the same money.
It's not that I doubt them but a 428 can't be worth more than £30,000 of anyone's money, even a manual convertible can't be much more than £35,000.
We'll see how long they sit on it I guess
As to anyone buying a 428 and converting it to a 427 I personally would like to burn such philistines at the stake. A good Kirkham would be a better bet, and cheaper. Though you would of course be able to drop a genuine 427/428 into a converted Frua without any MOT problems.
Still . . . the horror.
Mark-Anthony
CRS #22
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Lets not be blinkered by perceived values here, these cars have been undervalued for years with restoration costs only getting worse. I've seen this car in the past, it's everything it's cracked up to be, the work was done by Uniclip afterall. I also saw the other car at the NEC, (it was an auto. actually) a true 'minter', which had covered 50 odd thousand miles with proper history.
As to the comment about dropheads only being worth £35000; who saw the black car sold by Bonhams at Goodwood last September? £42,000 + 17.5% premium. If you lifted the carpets you could see the road not to mention incorrect seats, no bumpers and louvres all over the bonnet. How many more tens of thousands to spend on top I wonder. Time to reappraise I think, look at the value increases of some comparable cars over recent years...
In the best interests of the surviving cars we should all be grateful of increased values
quote:
Originally posted by Mark-Anthony
Guys,
F.Y.I.
Hurst Park are selling an automatic 428. It has had everything done that needs doing and is in (according to them) 1st class condition. It has had many many thousands spent on it and it is a 60,000 mile car (high 50's actually).
They say they can show receipts for work on the car totalling over £90,000! and they claim a full service history. Be that as it may it can't justify the asking price of . . . are you sitting down? . . . £60,000 ! ! !
Not only are they not kidding, but they claim to have sold another 428 (silver/manual) in the last 6 months for the same money.
It's not that I doubt them but a 428 can't be worth more than £30,000 of anyone's money, even a manual convertible can't be much more than £35,000.
We'll see how long they sit on it I guess
As to anyone buying a 428 and converting it to a 427 I personally would like to burn such philistines at the stake. A good Kirkham would be a better bet, and cheaper. Though you would of course be able to drop a genuine 427/428 into a converted Frua without any MOT problems.
Still . . . the horror.
Mark-Anthony
CRS #22
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On top of it, they are not that difficult to restore, rectangular tubing, flat steel underneath, nothing that a good steel guy can't handle. The cars are simple and the chassis is unbelievably stiff! In other words, please restore them correctly and you will see prices go to up significantly! This is a great car! It's very powerfull and it handles very well when set up correctly! Actually, the additional 6" of wheelbase adds quite a bit of stability compared to a Cobra, great for the open road. Based on pedigree and on rarity alone, these cars should sell well in excess of 200K and I bet they will shortly!
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Hello Trevor, sorry but the register is at work so I can't confirm the exact number of 428/Cobra conversions but I'll look on Monday. It is a shame that it happens when a Mk IV offers the same experience at less money, and can still wear the AC badge with pride.
Regarding values, the performance, beauty, rarity and practicality would in any other market make the 428 Frua priceless! It's just a matter of time, a re-run of Linda Thorson in The Avengers, and David Beckham smoking round Hollywood in one, and we're made. It's called fashion.
Andy.
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If only James Bond had an AC fetish.........
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CF 27 was just sold by Wolfgang Rudolf. CFX 28 was or is owned by Michael Hart (California). My car is CFX 29. All three are Fastbacks. CF 14 is owned by Jim Feldman (Oregon), and CFX54 is owned by Emmanuel D - both are Dropheads. So that's a little better than 6 percent of the total production accounted for.
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There is also ex Bruce Milner car, CFX 37 an immaculate green 1970 convertible with manual trans, still in California as well! we are now up to about 8%. [:D]
Emmanuel
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and the two silver fastbacks one sold and one for sale @ Hurst Park. Chassis numbers unknown (to me). And Tim Isles reported convertables CF 81 and CF 17 known to him in the 70's (still around?). CF 19, a fastback - might be one of the Hurst Park cars(?), or not. Total of 8 so far, with 3 additional possibles (81, 17, 19)
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And Andy Shepherd's car, Luigi. What's the number, Andy? - That's 9 confirmed, so far
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I believe I'm right in saying that Andy has two 428s, and is not the only person known to have two 428s.
Me - I can't get my hands on one!
M-A
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CF62, a white coupe, sold in San Diego in February 2003!
http://www.collectorcarads.com/addetail.asp?CarID=4117
Emmanuel[:)]
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My Frua CF64 Fastback is currenyly udergoing restoration here in Australia, not without a few problems I hasten to add.
Peter
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What type of problem if I may ask? Maybe I can help, if you need any kind of photo or parts. Let me know!
Emmanuel
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Emmanuel
Thank you for the offer, I may well prevail on you for information on your upgraded suspension.
I have yet to drive my car as I bought it in bits from Terry Healy in Brisbane who in turn bought it from a guy in Vancouver, again in bits.
The engine has been rebuilt with alloy heads and I want to put headers on instead of the cast iron manifolds. I do have concerns about the overheating and heat generally ( I did visit with Andy S during a visit to the UK last year )
The rust worm has visited the car but only cosmetically.
I am thinking of having a second bonnett/hood made with louvres in it that can be interchanged with the original, we are inserting an aluminium fan assisted radiator.
I do not intend to race the car but just use it as a fun weekender, I have my Harley for all the thrills I need.
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quote:
Originally posted by Englishman
Emmanuel
Thank you for the offer, I may well prevail on you for information on your upgraded suspension.
I have yet to drive my car as I bought it in bits from Terry Healy in Brisbane who in turn bought it from a guy in Vancouver, again in bits.
The engine has been rebuilt with alloy heads and I want to put headers on instead of the cast iron manifolds. I do have concerns about the overheating and heat generally ( I did visit with Andy S during a visit to the UK last year )
The rust worm has visited the car but only cosmetically.
I am thinking of having a second bonnett/hood made with louvres in it that can be interchanged with the original, we are inserting an aluminium fan assisted radiator.
I do not intend to race the car but just use it as a fun weekender, I have my Harley for all the thrills I need.
If you look at the photo of my car's engine bay, I have installed headers, Edelbrock aluminum heads, a Ford Aluminum Police Interceptor intake manifold (same as the 428 Cobra Jet Manifold but made of Aluminum). Incidentally, it’s the lightest and best performing intake that will fit under the hood of the Frua and it is original Ford! You can see them on E-bay but the prices have come up big time since they are correct on the Mustang Shelby GT 500. The air filter is a big block Chevelle/ Corvette piece from the late 60s’; it has a large opening and very low profile. The headers are basic Sanderson shorties modified to fit the very tight space in the engine room and ceramic coated inside and out. The carburetor is a 735 Holley with vacuum secondary off a Shelby GT500, the car came with a crummy emission autolite carburetor. Air pump and air injectors were removed some time ago. With these modifications, the engine temperature is steady at 80 Degrees/c all day long.
Modifications on the suspensions so far are Kirkham adjustable rear upper control arms and Edelbrock Cobra 427 shock absorbers with 400Lbs spring up front and 600Lbs rear. The car was raised 1 inch up front and 11/2 inch rear. Next, I will install a front anti sway bar, probably 3 quarter inch which is what come stock on the Kirkham 427. The handling is now very good and the car is a pleasure to drive fast.
Emmanuel
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q271/Emmanueld_2007/IMG_0008.jpg)
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I want to buy the Hurst Park car, but wasn't thinking 60K. Are these cars usable. I've heard that they get so hot they are unusable, is this true? Are there mods that can be done to cool them down, do they have air con, or can it be retro fitted?
Thanks for any help.
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quote:
Originally posted by Jappo
I want to buy the Hurst Park car, but wasn't thinking 60K. Are these cars usable. I've heard that they get so hot they are unusable, is this true? Are there mods that can be done to cool them down, do they have air con, or can it be retro fitted?
Thanks for any help.
The AC 428 is a great car, it has some flaws, but nothing that can be overcome! The main one is the heat in the cabin, the second one is corrosion, the third one is the suspension settings. When you have addressed these, you will have one of the most exiting car of the 60s'. Great power and handling, very good brakes, an "exotic" chassis, an automobile which is very reliable and affordable to maintain because of its readily available mechanical spares and on top of the list, one of the rarest vehicle on the planet!
I am in the process of addressing "the heat in the cabin" part, I had insulated some of the firewall before but not enough and the heat was still too much!(Remember, Southern California is my home and we have deserts) Also the corrosion perforation did not help. We are now insulating the firewall completely inside and out (also the part that is in the fender well has to be done as well) , making sure almost no air can penetrate the cabin from the engine bay, on the outside, we are applying aircraft firewall insulation, on the inside, the whole cabin tar like sound deadening has been removed and will be replaced by Dynamat Extreme. http://www.dynamat.com This material is great and when applied correctly will virtually eliminate heat and noise. Also, under the carpets, we also will install Koolmat which is a floor insulation used on aircrafts http://www.koolmat.com. Later I plan to do some modifications to the hood trying not to disfigure it too much! This should take care of the problem! We will see! My advice is: Buy the car if its nice before prices go up too much!
I almost forgot, a manual transmission should reduce the heat quite a bit around the tunnel as well! Also the two large air ducks which travel inside the hood on the earlier cars should be relocated to the inner fender like on the later cars and insulated, otherwise, the air coming form the front is superheated and released inside the cabin like a heater!
One of these days some famous car enthusiast like Jay Leno will buy one of these cars and prices will skyrocket! Even at 60K pounds, these cars are a real bargain when one considers the performance, the breed and the chassis. Have you priced a Mustang Shelby GT 500 lately? and it is not even 1/2 the car the Frua is! Cheap mustang suspension, leaf springs, solid rear axle, drum brakes, all vinyl and plastic inside, etc. [;)]
Emmanuel
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
quote:
Originally posted by Jappo
I want to buy the Hurst Park car, but wasn't thinking 60K. Are these cars usable. I've heard that they get so hot they are unusable, is this true? Are there mods that can be done to cool them down, do they have air con, or can it be retro fitted?
Thanks for any help.
The AC 428 is a great car, it has some flaws, but nothing that can be overcome! The main one is the heat in the cabin, the second one is corrosion, the third one is the suspension settings. When you have addressed these, you will have one of the most exiting car of the 60s'. Great power and handling, very good brakes, an "exotic" chassis, an automobile which is very reliable and affordable to maintain because of its readily available mechanical spares and on top of the list, one of the rarest vehicle on the planet!
I am in the process of addressing "the heat in the cabin" part, I had insulated some of the firewall before but not enough and the heat was still too much!(Remember, Southern California is my home and we have deserts) Also the corrosion perforation did not help. We are now insulating the firewall completely inside and out (also the part that is in the fender well has to be done as well) , making sure almost no air can penetrate the cabin from the engine bay, on the outside, we are applying aircraft firewall insulation, on the inside, the whole cabin tar like sound deadening has been removed and will be replaced by Dynamat Extreme. http://www.dynamat.com This material is great and when applied correctly will virtually eliminate heat and noise. Also, under the carpets, we also will install Koolmat which is a floor insulation used on aircrafts http://www.koolmat.com. Later I plan to do some modifications to the hood trying not to disfigure it too much! This should take care of the problem! We will see! My advice is: Buy the car if its nice before prices go up too much!
I almost forgot, a manual transmission should reduce the heat quite a bit around the tunnel as well! Also the two large air ducks which travel inside the hood on the earlier cars should be relocated to the inner fender like on the later cars and insulated, otherwise, the air coming form the front is superheated and released inside the cabin like a heater!
One of these days some famous car enthusiast like Jay Leno will buy one of these cars and prices will skyrocket! Even at 60K pounds, these cars are a real bargain when one considers the performance, the breed and the chassis. Have you priced a Mustang Shelby GT 500 lately? and it is not even 1/2 the car the Frua is! Cheap mustang suspension, leaf springs, solid rear axle, drum brakes, all vinyl and plastic inside, etc. [;)]
Emmanuel
Good stuff Emmanuel - sounds like a lot of work though! Wonder how much has been done to the HurstPark car - I will go see it tomorrow.
Anyone ever fitted air con?
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I have seen a photo of a Frua roadster on a dealer website with the hood open, it had a little Sanyo air conditioning compressor installed! The coolant expansion tank had been replaced by a shortened Ford Galaxy one like on the Cobra MKIII and the alternator had been relocated as well. Not a big deal. Also there is room under the dashboard to replace the heater box by one of those used on Hot Rods. I will see later on. My friend Jeffrey wants to do that as well!
Emmanuel
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Hi just joined :-)
Though quite clueless mechanically (!) I’ve always liked the 428, also if anyone can speak German, found a few interesting looking sites on the net, the first one of which hopefully might help towards working out how many are left….?
Hope so and that the links all work !
1. http://www.pietro-frua.de/1965_ac.htm
Prototype drawings and history, also pics of 23 cars and their individual CF numbers at the bottom.
2. http://www.pietro-frua.de/vita.htm
Pietro Frua’s career and pics.
3. http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1468631066038203561oTaRhl
4. (http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/51/151/2/67/12/468626712iWUxoA_th.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1468626712038203561iWUxoA)
5. (http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/56/156/3/10/66/468631066oTaRhl_th.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1468631066038203561oTaRhl)
Nos. 4 and 5 are pics of a lightweight coupe at Goodwood in 2005.
6. http://www.pietro-frua.de/1965_ac01.htm
CF1 - LPH 800 D
7. http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_13910-AC-428-Spider-1966.html?PHPSESSID=827fadcd16ae7ec6b48ba27c82fad7e0
The Internet Movie Cars Database: The Avengers car. Also check out the interesting comments by Marsh (an AC member ?) at the bottom of “Comments†!
8. http://www.auto-museum.net/vehicule/galerie-634-AC+428+Frua+1966+1973.html
More 428 pics at bottom.
I think I might still have one or two scannable bits lying around as well if anyone’s interested ?
Edit:
* In case the Goodwood pics are a problem they're also on :
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1468631066038203561oTaRhl
And....
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1468626712038203561iWUxoA
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quote:
Originally posted by Classicus
Hi just joined :-)
....I think I might still have one or two scannable bits lying around as well if anyone`s interested ?
Welcome aboard, Classicus, what a comprehensive first post! Almost as informative as the 'Marsh'post on IMCDB!!!
I think I can speak for all here when I say yes please, show us what you`ve got!
You can translate the FRUA pages with a little button at the top right of the pages, but it`s a little...erm...off...in places!
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Thanks nikbj68 [:)]
Interesting English as you say - closely similar to early Japanese car manuals !
Can’t remember exactly when I saw my first 428, sometime around ’75 or so possibly, but it was a convertible with the roof down parked just off Oxford Circus and that was it ! I was hooked and although I’m only an ordinary enthusiast I’ve followed their progress whenever I could ever since. Then I think I saw a new one for sale in HR Owens (circular plate glass covered) showroom around Chelsea, so I immediately went in and got their AC brochure which I’ve still got today, showing the green 428 down by the Thames near Chertsey.
Hope it’s not too boring but I’ve included one or two early personal experiences, plus a few more bookmarked websites....
1. http://www.thewhothismonth.com/
“The Who†website - scroll down to March 1972. A snippet about Keith Moon’s write off. Stoned rock star or not how on earth did he drive as far as Staines in the first place !
2. http://www.automobilrevue.ch/artikel_15216.html
In German but some good general interior pics at the bottom.
3. http://www.fotolibra.com/gallery/image/?s=5556717&sid=0
CF 57 plus a few details.
4. http://theavengers.tv/forever/cars-2.htm
Another view of the Avenger car near the bottom.
5. http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/127259,11868,0,0/photo.aspx
6. An American registered softtop – scroll to bottom of page for more pics.
http://www.marque.com.au/gallery/AC/pages/AC_012%20(1967%20428%20Fastback.htm
(You’ll have to cut and paste this URL as it’s not taking it direct.)
Although unfortunately I’ve never owned a 428, I did manage to visit the Thames Ditton factory just the once and this picture does look very much like the same small showroom and forecourt at the front of the factory itself. Either way I clearly remember those funny small blue invalid (Ministry of Health ?) 3 wheeler carriages they made (what happened to them all ?) that were parked everywhere just inside the entrance to be serviced or whatever, and clearly remember then seeing a dark coloured fastback 428 amongst them ! Talk about contrasts ! I think perhaps there was a Greyhound and a vague memory of a Buckland or something beside it, plus several other presumably customer’s cars all in for a service as well. It was just like so many other very ordinary High Street garages at the time.
Although as I said I’m most definitely not mechanically minded or that interested (too many scars to prove it !), I do remember other small silly things from that visit ! Thinking for example as I peered into the dark interior full of period atmosphere and bustling activity, how the far windows were those small long rectagular cream coloured shape ones typical of so many pre and postwar family owned garages. Or inconsequential things like turning round and seeing a very ordinary High St. scene and a woman parking her dark pram and going into the grocers ! It was pure late 50’s suburbia the same as many early Norman Wisdom or “Carry On†films.
I also read a story somewhere recently that Carroll Shelby just turned up one day in a black taxi, hopefully wearing a stetson, and apparently saying to the first people he met “Hi y’all ! I’m Carroll Shelby.†I don’t know how true that is but in quiet South London suburbia with bellowing Cobras and Le Mans not that far ahead… It really beats the imagination nowadays ![:)]
7. http://autowp.ru/picture/115970
On the one occasion I visited Summer Road (’84/ ‘85 or so ?) I’m sure I saw this same red car parked right at the far back. I remember asking Keith (?) Judd about it as it was so different with the pop-up headlights. He said it was for sale at £20k which in fact was one heck of a lot money then and way out of my reach, especially when you think that 428 fastbacks were going for about £8000 or so ? I believe this car was the last 428 they produced too ? I did see Derek Hurlock in the background briefly as well but unfortunately he was far too busy. Finally, and I think it might have been Keith Judd who said that one of the reasons they stopped production of the 428 was because they would never pass the official crash test ?
And while I think of it too I once visited an AC event at around the same time and there was a guy there who’d brought along what he said was the very first prototype. Very scruffy and tired it looked a bit like a softtop Scimitar I thought, but I clearly remember he was very chuffed with it !
Have a rummage round later....[:)]
Edited
Just had a closer look in the Movie Car website under AC generally and found this little interesting lot [:)]
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-AC.html
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CF 18 is now combined with an AC Aceca body from AE 558, it was offered last October in Hertfordshire for 35000 pounds.
This was the ad:
This well known car features a 302 Boss Mustang engine in an independently suspended AC chassis. This is effectively a Mk3 Cobra with a roof, and it delivers the driver’s reward that you would expect from such a combination.
The car has been built to a very professional standard in the 1980s by a Swiss collector, Verner Oswald, using Aceca body number 558, and AC 428 chassis CF 18. The attention to detail is very good with features such as aeroquip hoses throughout, competition water piping, on board fire extinguisher.
The car is in excellent mechanical order. The suspension has been completely rebuilt, shock absorbers reconditioned and front anti roll bar fitted (following the settings from a competition Mk 3 Cobra) in the last year.
The engine is fresh and has only covered 1,000 miles since being run in. The engine builders expect it to be producing 400bhp+. It has Eagle steel crankshaft, Childs and Albert reduced radius big and main bearings, H beam magnafluxed con rods, +.030 boss pistons and more.
I have some pics if anyone is interested.
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Does anyone have any current info about fastback DLX 55J before I post some pics ? No idea of cf number.
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I've just realised that of the 22 (CF identified) 428's pictured on the German Frua website, by the looks of it 21 are convertibles.
CF 65 which is pictured in the CF 79 panel being the sole fastback.... ! [:0]
http://www.pietro-frua.de/1965_ac.htm
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quote:
Originally posted by Stephan
CF 18 is now combined with an AC Aceca body from AE 558, it was offered last October in Hertfordshire for 35000 pounds.
This was the ad:
This well known car features a 302 Boss Mustang engine in an independently suspended AC chassis. This is effectively a Mk3 Cobra with a roof, and it delivers the driver’s reward that you would expect from such a combination.
The car has been built to a very professional standard in the 1980s by a Swiss collector, Verner Oswald, using Aceca body number 558, and AC 428 chassis CF 18. The attention to detail is very good with features such as aeroquip hoses throughout, competition water piping, on board fire extinguisher.
The car is in excellent mechanical order. The suspension has been completely rebuilt, shock absorbers reconditioned and front anti roll bar fitted (following the settings from a competition Mk 3 Cobra) in the last year.
The engine is fresh and has only covered 1,000 miles since being run in. The engine builders expect it to be producing 400bhp+. It has Eagle steel crankshaft, Childs and Albert reduced radius big and main bearings, H beam magnafluxed con rods, +.030 boss pistons and more.
I have some pics if anyone is interested.
I would love to see that! Please post or E-mal pics at your convenience! Regards, Emmanuel
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Be an idea to include fastback JLH 182K onto this thread as well...
Any idea of the total number of 428's discovered so far ? [:)]
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p273/classicus/AC428JLH182K.jpg)
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I delayed posting these pics of fastback DLX 55J a day or so just in case anyone might have heard of or (amazingly !) be the current owner as obviously it’s not pretty viewing at all.
I answered a very brief ad. for this car back in about ’78 or ’79 and travelled up from London to Chesterfield to see it as the guy said it was repairable, also it sounded cheap at £2000 !!
Nevertheless I decided to keep the photos as I felt it could one day be useful historical proof for any future Register.
Such a shame and waste ! [V]
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p273/classicus/AC4280001.jpg)
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p273/classicus/AC4280002.jpg)
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p273/classicus/AC4280003.jpg)
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p273/classicus/AC4280004.jpg)
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p273/classicus/AC4280005.jpg)
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p273/classicus/AC4280006.jpg)
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Hello,
I recently own the AC 428 convertible CF 9. It's engine is about to be overhauled, as well as the electrical system and a convertion from automatic to manual. I am looking for original seats (whatever the condition) and front bumpers. Can anybody help ?
Damien Heymans (Belgium)
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Hello Damien, I don't know where you can locate these! You might have to have them made. What are you doing to the engine? Which transmission will you use? Emmanuel
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Haynes Motor Museum near Yeovil in Somerset have a red convertible and used to have a fastback as well though not sure what the current situation is.
A pic of their AC collection....
http://rides.webshots.com/album/199417728MTyKxv
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quote:
Originally posted by Classicus
I delayed posting these pics of fastback DLX 55J a day or so just in case anyone might have heard of or (amazingly !) be the current owner as obviously it’s not pretty viewing at all.
I answered a very brief ad. for this car back in about ’78 or ’79 and travelled up from London to Chesterfield to see it as the guy said it was repairable, also it sounded cheap at £2000 !!
Nevertheless I decided to keep the photos as I felt it could one day be useful historical proof for any future Register.
Hello Classicus,
Thank you very much for these very interesting photos of DLX 55J which is chassis no. CF 62. The restored car (colour: white) has been offered for sale in 2006.
Could you please send me your photos in higher resolution for my Registro Pietro Frua (www.pietro-frua.de)?
Stefan
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quote:
Hello Classicus,
Thank you very much for these very interesting photos of DLX 55J which is chassis no. CF 62. The restored car (colour: white) has been offered for sale in 2006.
Could you please send me your photos in higher resolution for my Registro Pietro Frua (www.pietro-frua.de)?
Stefan
Hi Stefan
Well that is amazing after all these years ! I've often wondered what happened to DLX....[:)] Was it actually sold in 2006 or is it still for sale ?
If it's ok with the Club(?), when I get a few moments I'll post them all back into this thread again.
You have a very good and informative website. A lot of hard work gone into it, well done [:)]
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Hello Stefan,
How are you? how is the registry going?
Emmanuel
-
quote:
Originally posted by Classicus
Hi Stefan
Well that is amazing after all these years ! I've often wondered what happened to DLX....[:)] Was it actually sold in 2006 or is it still for sale ?
If it's ok with the Club(?), when I get a few moments I'll post them all back into this thread again.
You have a very good and informative website. A lot of hard work gone into it, well done [:)]
Hi Classicus,
You can send me the photos directly via e-mail and I will post them on my website. Please add your full name and city, so that I can acknowledge your copyright properly.
Unfortunately I do not know, if CF 62 has been sold or not. It was announced for the Kruse auction at Monterey (18. Aug 2006) but is not included in the results list. There was an ad at collectorarads.com in May 2006 naming the private seller Craig White (phone 760-436-9313). Perhaps somebody from the USA can just call and ask him.
Stefan
-
quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
Hello Stefan,
How are you? how is the registry going?
Emmanuel
Hello Emmanuel,
Thank you I am fine. Though I did not have the time to push the Frua registry as far as I would like, because I just finished writing a book (not Frua). There are several hundreds of cars which I do research on and my time has to be divided amongst them.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to visit the AC Owners Club Forum very often and I could not find a possibility to get informed via e-mail about new entries as it is usual in other forums. Therefore it is better to contact me via e-mail. Nevertheless I can offer to document the Frua bodied ACs on my website and I will include all information which I get. I already have collected a lot of information on the AC 428 Coupés, but it is still very incomplete and I did not find the time yet to publish it on the website. Contributors are warmly welcome.
To those who criticised the English translation on my website: Unfortunately I started the website several years ago in German, because I was not aware about the international interest it would evoke. Therefore I later added the link to the automatic translation, which is a machine translation and therefore far from perfect and sometimes funny. I hope that it is at least better than to read the website in German for those who don't understand that language.
Stefan
-
quote:
Originally posted by Stefan Dierkes
....To those who criticised the English translation on my website: Unfortunately I started the website several years ago in German, ...Therefore I later added the link to the automatic translation, which is a machine translation and therefore far from perfect and sometimes funny. I hope that it is at least better than to read the website in German for those who don't understand that language.
Stefan
Hi Stefan. Congratulations on a very nicely built & researched site!
No criticism intended regarding the online translation, it is a useful tool, as you say, "less than perfect and sometimes funny" but all the better for it!
Best regards, Nik.
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Hi Stefan
Sorry I haven’t come back to you sooner very busy at the moment.
I’ve never had to think at all about the Copyright side of things as I collected and researched whatever I could down the years just for my own personal interest and enjoyment. And up until about the beginning of March I never even knew that there was an AC Club Forum for the 428 either, so it’s all happened very quickly !
However I think that as the Club and nikbj68 have been very kind to let me post all my disjointed ramblings and other bits and pieces onto their Forum to begin with, it’s only fair that in return I pass all Copyrights that are applicable over to them permanently to deal with as they wish. So perhaps best you get in touch with nikjb68 to begin with ? Me, I’m just glad to have had the opportunity to listen and talk to others after so long who feel the same way I do !
Many thanks Club and nikbj68 !! [:)] [:)]
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quote:
Originally posted by Classicus
Hi ...I think that as the Club and nikbj68 have been very kind to let me post all my disjointed ramblings and other bits and pieces onto their Forum to begin with, it’s only fair that in return I pass all Copyrights that are applicable over to them permanently to deal with as they wish. So perhaps best you get in touch with nikjb68 to begin with ? Me, I’m just glad to have had the opportunity to listen and talk to others after so long who feel the same way I do !
Many thanks Club and nikbj68 !! [:)] [:)]
[:I] Kind words, indeed, thanks!
I can`t take any credit for anything other than being an enthusiast who (according to 'erself!)spends a little too much time indulging my interest here!
As far as copyright goes, any pics I post are either mine, with owners` consent or referenced to source, but I think Stefan`s main concern is that you are credited for your efforts!
Unless you (try to)earn a crust from your photography and are happy to see them in the public domain, please keep sharing!
I have learned a lot from this forum, and the many sites that I would never have found(Stefan`s, in particular) otherwise. [8D]
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quote:
As far as copyright goes, any pics I post are either mine, with owners` consent or referenced to source
A bit new all this so thanks for the advice ! Nevertheless I’d still like to show my appreciation to the Club in some way for all their hard work past and present, so if it’s ok all round (?) I’m happy with something like - “Copyright The AC Owners’ Club With Acknowledgementsâ€. It might also bring in more 428 enthusiasts who don’t know about the Club yet as well ! [8D]
Meantime if I unearth anything else of interest will post as before otherwise quite happy to sit back and continue enjoying the show !
Long live the 428 ! [:)]
(I wonder when the first limited edition oil and watercolours start appearing ! [;)])
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Classicus,
First of all, I need the photos in higher resolution. Second I am a historian and name my sources. With respect to copyright the most important source is the author. The author can transfer the rights of usage to others. But he will stay the author forever. The author of a photography is the photographer. So, I would like to add YOUR name to the photos which YOU took of CF 62. Please contact me directly via e-mail, if you want discuss this topic further.
Stefan
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Hi Stefan
I am quite aware of all this now thank you, however there are one or two things that I feel still need to be sorted out first. As I’m extremely busy right now will be in touch sometime next week when you can decide whether you wish to pursue this further or not.
My thanks again [:)]
Classicus
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Well, don't forget CF-21 (RHD fastback) in Seattle; plus, there's at least one fastback in British Columbia owned by Clive Darvell of Vancouver. I know that there was a white LHD fastback in Windsor, Ontario a couple of years ago; it had the Ford/Shelby coiled snake emblem just above the Frua badges on the front quarter panels.
And the "Sea Mist Green' roadster that used to live in SoCal is now in Connecticut, expensively restored (photos on line somewhere; try Google).
I wouldn't be surprised to learn there were 20 AC 428s altogether in North America.
Best Regards,
Rheinubung
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Hi Rhienubung,
The Fast Back that Clive Darvell had in Vancouver is CF 64, this car is now owned by me and is udergoing restoration here in Australia.
Peter davis
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Hello Peter
Have you made any changes to CF-64? Clive seemed to treat it quite well. I liked that car.
Mike Reed
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Mike,
The car when I got it was in a very poor state as it had sat in a garage for some considerable time in a semi dismantled state.
The engine has been completely rebuilt as the block was cracked, the body work had met the rust worm and is being restored, the trim was totally removed and until we start the final refit I am unsure of what is or isn't there.
The brakes were totally siezed as were the shocks, the inside trim was totally buggered and has been redone as have the seats in which the foam rubber had disintegrated, I am not even going to mess with the wire wheels.
Transmission and rear end completely rebuilt.
We now have it back on the ground with the four corners completely rebuilt and the whole lot is being shipped to a coach builder to go over the body and make a couple of new bonnets (hoods) and doors, and wheel arches for the front end.
In short no changes except for Halibrand wheels and complete restoration.
Peter
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Hello Peter:
I was saddened to hear the state into which CF-64 had fallen, but happy it is being rehabilitated Down Under.
I found the rebuilding of the OEM Dunlop wire wheels to be easy; modern stainless spokes can be quite durable regardless of torque loads. Tell me about your Halibrands; are you converting to pin drive or using a steel drive sleeve in the center of the alloy? May I assume you're using the Cobra pattern wheel? I have noted recently that Halibrand themselves are back manufacturing magnesium & aluminum wheels.
Best Regards,
Mike
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Hi Everyone. I plan to publish an updated 428 register on the main ACOC website in the next month or two. Please tell me of any details missing or inaccurate in the last register. The chances are, if you haven't told me already, I probably don't know!
By the way I converted my road going 428 to run Halibrands on peg drive. The hubs were Mk IV Cobra and worked fine. All the best, Andy
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Hi Andy, how easy is it to get a set of MKIV hubs? Where should I go?
Did you use standard MKIV wheels?
Thanks,
Emmanuel
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Hi Emanuel, Yes I used Mk IV Wheels, but I'm a bit spoiled for choice as we have sets of 15'' 16'' and 17''to play with. I used 16'' as they fit perfectly and I had some new road tyres for them. When I changed the hubs, AC still had parts in England. Nowadays I would start with AC in Malta or contact Alan Faulkner-Stevens the Mk IV registrar in England. He may well read this post and reply and save you the trouble! All the best, Andy.
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Rheinubung,
The Halibrands are pin drive, the hubs were machined to fit over the original spline drive hubs for the wire wheels, so without too much hassle the wheels can be changed back to the wires easily. The Halibrands will fill out the wheel arches and make the car look a lot squatter.
Soory for the late response as I have just returned from a business trip to Europe.
Peter
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Peter hi,
It's the first time I hear this, I will inquire!
Emmanuel
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Emmanuel,
My guys up in Ballina NSW machined four new hubs to fit onto/over the existing, they are of course securely bolted to the originals. The guys that are working on the car are sticklers for safety and originality, they still race open wheel cars and historic saloons.
Peter
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New pin drive hubs are available from Kirkham Motorsports!
Emmanuel
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
Emmanuel
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q271/Emmanueld_2007/IMG_0008.jpg)
Emmanuel,
[What a revelation a simple Google Search will reveal, this forum to me this morning...]
Anyway, I can vouch for CF 7 which was [according to AC] was the factory test/loaner car for several years:
(http://home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/motorin/dataplate_799.jpg)
(http://home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/motorin/front_765.jpg)
CF7 was a car I found for my father in the mid 1970's in London [despite being 14 and in the MidWest USA at the time] and my sister and I now own it since our parent's have passed.
I know from correspondence with AC back in the 1970's that in the late 1960's/early 1970's two AC 428's were allowed into the US under some sort of special waver to get around DOT and EPA regulations [God how I LOATHE the EPA!] and two other cars were allowed into Canada under similar circumstances.
The numbers for these four cars were 27 and 29 and 28 and 30 (I'm not sure which country got which pair.
My family and I did get to see one of the Canadian cars, a Left Hand Drive Gray coupe in Oakville Ontario (a Suburb of Toronto) in the spring of 1976 or 1977 as it was being offered for sale. My father was very interested in importing it as it was LHD (Vs. the RHD of CF7). However, when we contacted the EPA/DOT/Customs officials to see what could be done to import the car, Customs and DOT were reasonably amenable but the EPA was downright rude, nasty and belligerent. They spelt out via phone in all sorts of graphic detail what kind of modifications would be necessary for the Canadian car to be imported, and the expense and the testing and they said in no uncertain terms that it would not pass their inspection [as if they would make it their mission in life to make sure it would not ever pass]. So we abandoned out attempt to import it. If we had been smart, we would have just driven it over the boarder with the documentation for CF 7 and we probably would have sailed through with no more than a "drive safe" but because we had inquired we figured that they would be alert to that sort of thing.
Incidentally the reason we were able to get CF7 in-country was it was completed on 21 December 1967 making it a '67 model and hence avoiding any DOT, etc. strictures which related to 1968 models.
Ok, back to the Oakville Ontario Coupe. As best I can remember it was gray, (I don't think it was a metallic gray), was LHD and an automatic. It also had a Holley [as opposed to Motorcraft] Carb on it, and I remember believing that it was probably quicker with that carb on it than CF7. It was in very good shape (it was a mover performance wise) but I wouldn't go so far to say it was in excellent or outstanding shape. The owner also had an Accea Coupe that was in a state of disrepair. And this was the Spring of either 1976 or 1977, as best I can remember.
Those are all the details best I can remember, it was a fun trip to Ontario with a less than hoped for outcome. We were very disappointed to not have been able to get that one too.
I have to tell you your BRG roadster is absolutely stunning! And I'm very pleased to see that I'm not the only person who feels these are the valve covers that belong on a AC 428:
(http://home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/motorin/motor_800.jpg)
... regardless of what they shipped with!
Cheers!
Chuck
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Hello
This forum is a great find and its good to see so many 428s still around.
I can help with the whereabouts of 3 more that my father owns.
He has CF 79, a car he bought twice. He sold it in the late 70's, but then saw the same car in appalling condition a few years later and bought it back and restored it.
He also has a fastback but I am unsure of the chassis number. However I remember him telling me that it was the last fastback off the production line.
The third car is the prototype convertible with pop up lights that was built in 1982.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/PeteJohnson/Car0202.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/PeteJohnson/Car0208.jpg)
The white car in the second picture is an AC Greyhound which completes his small collection. You could say he's a bit of an AC fan.
All the cars are in good working order and while not used regularly do go for a run several times a year. We've done a fair bit of work on all of them over the years mainly changing all the fuel tanks and rads from steel to ali because of corrosion.
Hopes this helps the list of remaining 428s.
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Hello guys' nice cars, it's great to see them coming out of the woodwork! I have been away and I have not been able to do much to mine for a while. I had to remove the gas tank and have it redone. Now I have to put it back in the car which I plan to do this weekend as well as taking some pictures of the front emblem for a guy in this forum. Would anybody have a photo of the fuel filler both outside and in the boot? There are two little pipes which have been blocked off at one point! I suspect it is why the pump nozzle always backs up when I fill the tank. If anyone could shown some photos of the breather system I would appreciate! Thanks Emmanuel
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Hi Mr Johnson, beautiful cars,that's a 'perfect stable' indeed,another thing that strikes me is the nice 'balanced' appearance of the Frua, as a fastback gorgeous from ANY angle,yet the drophead although quite long is also stunningly pretty, bearing in mind Chuck's advice re corrosion prevention,great to find that so many are still alive and well.Had the prototype covered many miles during its time at AC's, presuming there was a lengthy design programme?
Paul/runt.[:)]
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Hi Paul/runt
I think the mileage on the prototype is still only about 450. Barely run in. Not sure why my father never runs it. I think he prefers the fastback. I've always preferred the look of the fastback.
As for the lengthy design process I'm not sure if there was one. There was certainly a long build process. Started in the 70's and not completed till 1982. There was very little testing done. Aside from the bodywork the car isn't very different from the conventional convertible.
I've noticed many people on this forum talking about heating problems with the cabin being uncomfortably warm. We have never had any problems like that but we have swapped all the radiators for aluminum ones and installed bigger more powerful fans next the rads. How many other people have changed rads?
They are a great car for warming up a cold garage in the winter though.
Has any one been keeping score of how many Frua are still "alive"?
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I was wondering that myself, perhaps the Owners club have a register and perhaps some who have responded on here can be added;I'm a complete newcomer to these forums.
The prototype..it does look new in that photo, still surprised by the mileage though!
The fastback being the last built, would that be 1973?
Its always amazed me how two otherwise identical models off a 'line' can run so differently with 'stat set at different temp. opening, I noticed this with two old XJ Jaguars I had; one would warm the garage nicely as you say!
Good to learn that quality rad and fans can keep the beast cooler anyway.
Paul/runt.[:)]
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Paul, in answer to your question about the registar of owners, it's available to members of the ACOC to view on this web site. So why not join the club? It well worth the small outlay.
Terry
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I'd love to Terry; trouble is, I can't afford a Frua @ the moment to partner my Cobra 'replica' which I love,so as you see, I don't actually own an AC, just a lifelong fascination with the marque.
Paul.[:I]
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quote:
Originally posted by terry3000ME...So why not joing the club?...
quote:
Originally posted by runt...I don't actually own an AC, just a lifelong fascination with the marque.Paul.[:I]
In the 'Good old Days' there used to be an 'associate membership' for us plebs what like what we can`t (or don`t[;)]) have....BUT, I`m sure that a cheque for £32.50 wouldn`t be returned by Mr.Morpeth should the "year...model...chassis no..." sections remain blank on your Membership Form (http://"http://www.racecar.co.uk/acoc/ac_membership.asp") [:D]
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
quote:
Originally posted by terry3000ME...So why not joing the club?...
quote:
Originally posted by runt...I don't actually own an AC, just a lifelong fascination with the marque.Paul.[:I]
In the 'Good old Days' there used to be an 'associate membership' for us plebs what like what we can`t (or don`t[;)]) have....BUT, I`m sure that a cheque for £32.50 wouldn`t be returned by Mr.Morpeth should the "year...model...chassis no..." sections remain blank on your Membership Form (http://"http://www.racecar.co.uk/acoc/ac_membership.asp") [:D]
Cheers Nik!
Paul.[:)]
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You don't have to be an owner to join the ACOC - everyone is welcomed who has an interest in ACs of all or any periods. The biggest single cost to the club is the production of ACtion, which all members receive, hence the flat membership rate.
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Just found these few sold pics of a nice maroon coloured fastback – reg. no. very hard to make out possibly JP- 75- H/K……? They say it's a 1969 car but the dash is the later type, so puzzling.
I haven't seen it before so ring a bell anyone ? [:)]
http://www.pioneer-automobiles.co.uk/photo%20library%20new%20a-e.html#a
(Plus a couple of 2 litres - 1936 and 1952)
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quote:
Originally posted by Classicus
Just found these few sold pics of a nice maroon coloured fastback – reg. no. very hard to make out possibly JP- 75- H/K……? They say it's a 1969 car but the dash is the later type, so puzzling.
I haven't seen it before so ring a bell anyone ? [:)]
http://www.pioneer-automobiles.co.uk/photo%20library%20new%20a-e.html#a
(Plus a couple of 2 litres - 1936 and 1952)
I agree with you on the dash, Cass. It also has the AC logos's behind the fuel fills which aren't on CF 7. It's definately of later production. CF 7 was complete just prior to Christmas 1967 for point of reference on it's year of production.
Cheers!
-- Chuck
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Cass, I remember checking this out a while ago; can't remember what the provisional price tag was though.. color suits the car, no doubt, think it had a claimed 40k miles up.
Paul.[:)]
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Hi Paul/ Chuck [:)]
Be really nice if we knew the reg. no. chassis no. price sold etc. as apart from the Pietro Frua site, which is all convertibles bar one or two, unfortunately there's still no on-line picture source of all the fastbacks yet. Hmmm....there must be quite a few fastback pics on here by now too....
Howzabout sifting through all the relevant posts and bringing them all, plus as much background info as possible, into just the one specific sub-forum ? Hopefully the English might just be a little more recognisable too ? Or as dear old posh Terry Thomas used to lisp "....an absolute sha'r" !
Edit: Come to that owners could perhaps eventually post their own pics and create their own weblogs ?
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quote:
Originally posted by Trevor Legate
I know that five 428s have definately been 'converted' and I suspect it may be a higher figure than that. I would have thought that Andy S should know? No? There was an article about the process in an issue of ACtion a few years back. I do have some photos of one such car, now registered 5ALD if I recall. It's a short-nosed AC289 clone and looks good with green paintwork. I took some photos of it at one of the ACOC Sprints at Gooders not so long ago. I shall trawl my archives.....
The 428 was Derek Hurlock's favoured mode of transport and who could blame him?
(http://)(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/hurricaneharold/COBRA_427.jpg)
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Great ! Is this a recent pic ? I'd like to get this onto the AC 428 Register as well, so any chance of finding out the original CF(X) number ?
Thanks
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quote:
Originally posted by Classicus
Great ! Is this a recent pic ? I'd like to get this onto the AC 428 Register as well, so any chance of finding out the original CF(X) number ?
Thanks
5 ALD is (was?) CF 68, which I thought we`d previously discussed, but a quick flick through where I thought it was revealed nothing!
[:)]
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Thanks Nick [8D] Any history available of the original car ?
To be honest I've still no idea how many Cobra conversions exist overall ! From memory there's CFX 35 (the French one) and now CF68 which still leaves according to Trevor's quote above three more and even then he wasn't sure. Any ideas ?
Hopefully the new Register will reveal all....
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I was about to post and say it was CF68 and found m'learned colleague had beaten me to it. Just checked this in the 428 registry in this webbysite and I note that the registration number, 5ALD, has missed its alloted box and been entered against CF69, which I know is the Tony Valenti hot-rod (hi Tony) so maybe some responsible official will read these pearls of wisdom and make the necessary correction?
428s to 'Cobra', that I'm aware of: CFs 23, 35, 39, 47 plus 68, of course. Methinks one or two others have been cut n shut but I can't quote numbers.
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Much obliged thank you Trevor, updating the interim 428 Register soon.
Paul
Passing thought - an AC 428 Mk II built by Brooklands and all that that might bring !! [:p]
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quote:
Originally posted by Classicus
Great ! Is this a recent pic ? I'd like to get this onto the AC 428 Register as well, so any chance of finding out the original CF(X) number ?
Thanks
I took this photo at Silverstone in 2006,
And here is the car with the reg No 4 ALD
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/hurricaneharold/ac428-1.jpg)
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Fantastic stuff and thank you !!
But what on earth could have happened for such a great car and in such beautiful condition to finish up as yet another Cobra replica ? An accident/ rust....? Any idea ? Also any idea when and where this character-oozing gorgeous pic was taken ? Or any other details.... ?
And if you have any more great 428 pics like the above plus any history for the interim Register it would be much appreciated !
Many thanks ! [^] [^] [^] [^]
Paul
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Originally posted by Classicus
Fantastic stuff and thank you !!
But what on earth could have happened for such a great car and in such beautiful condition to finish up as yet another Cobra replica ? An accident/ rust....? Any idea ? Also any idea when and where this character-oozing gorgeous pic was taken ? Or any other details.... ?
And if you have any more great 428 pics like the above plus any history for the interim Register it would be much appreciated !
Many thanks ! [^] [^] [^] [^]
Paul
I do have some more photo`s of the AC 428`s,email me at daytonacobra@hotmail.com
And I will send you some,I do not know any of the history of the cars or serial No`s. I have just been taking photo`s of them as and when I see them over the years.
Aaron[:)]
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quote:
Originally posted by Classicus
...But what on earth could have happened for such a great car and in such beautiful condition to finish up as yet another Cobra replica ? ...Paul
I`m pretty sure 4 ALD is still very much the Frua, 5 ALD was 'converted' some time in the 80`s by Emilio Garcia, if memory serves.
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Quite so young Nikolas, no reason to assume that 4ALD and 5ALD are one and the same. I can only surmise that the dreaded tin-rot had done its stuff by the 1980s and Emilio got to work, along with the Ferrari Daytonas he converted to soft tops, plus the RR Silver Clouds etc etc. I note that in this months issue of Classic Cars, there is a small article about the 428, raising the Italian ferrous oxide problem that accounted for many of the past problems.
I'm quite sure a number of ACOC members reading this can provide many more details concerning 5 ALD, including the owner....??
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quote:
Originally posted by Trevor Legate
...I'm quite sure a number of ACOC members reading this can provide many more details concerning 5 ALD, including the owner....??
...Or by looking at the Cobra 'Replica Coilspring Cars' register?
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It is interesting to note that at least on my car, the British made parts of the chassis were like new, and that all the Italian made parts such as floors, outriggers and sills were corroded (The car came from Belgium). I was lucky enough to find somebody with great skills in metal smithing who was able to recreate parts from sheet metal and tubing. Otherwise this car might have ended up as a Cobra Replica as well. The man worked for 3 months non-stop just to fix the corrosion problems which had been covered up with Bondo, riveted aluminum, wire mesh and fiberglass by whatever shop in england. I had a special deal with him which made the proposition a financially viable one. Today the bottom looks and is factory new. I know that out here no body shop would have taken such a job. Unless you are dealing with a very valuable auto like a California Spyder or a Nart Cabriolet worth a large amount of money, nobody will do it! it just is not worth it! Such a restoration will cost probably twice what the cars is worth. I got lucky there!
Emmanuel [:)]
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The problem with the bodywork which i believe was made in Italy was at that period steel was supplied from Russia on a reciprical barter deal with Fiat, that is why most Italian cars of that period corroded due to poor quality steel also poor paintwork.
Robin
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It's not only Italian cars, Yes these were particularly bad, but so were French cars. Also, I have owned a few E-types and I remember a particular one, a 1971 series 2 roadsters on which I replaced the floors, upon pulling the carpets, I realized that the sills and the floors were never painted, just primed. Primers of that era were porous and not made to be left raw. Even Mercedes which are probably the best built cars of that era have bad corrosion problems. To my knowledge, Porsche is the first manufacturer who was concerned about this matter and began offering galvanized floors and sills in the early 70's and switched to fully galvanized bodies in 1976.
Emmanuel[:)]
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quote:
Originally posted by aaron
Originally posted by Classicus
Great ! Is this a recent pic ? I'd like to get this onto the AC 428 Register as well, so any chance of finding out the original CF(X) number ?
Thanks
When I posted the photo of 4 ALD I was not stating that it was the same car as 5 ALD,I took the photo of 5 ALD in 2006 at Silverstone......[:)]
I was just posting a photo of the car with the preceeding reg No.....[:)]
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As more and more of these cars are restored and cared for, prices will increase to a level which make the whole Cobra replica scheme not worth it. With companies like Kirkham making near perfect replicas, it's not worth it to trash a 428 anymore.
The last issue at least over here in California is registration! It's more and more difficult to register and license a newly built custom vehicle, it's a lot easier to take the registration from an existing old car, just transfer the chassis plate, "et voila"! Cheap registration fees and no smog!
Emmanuel
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quote:
Originally posted by PJohnson
He also has a fastback but I am unsure of the chassis number. However I remember him telling me that it was the last fastback off the production line.
I didn't intend to wait this long between posts but I've found that the fastback my father owns is CF74.
In the 428 register it has him as owning CF65,79 and 81 as these were the 3 cars in Classic and Sportscar Nov. 1986. However CF 65, the fastback present was not his.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/PeteJohnson/P1011022.jpg)
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Hi
Thanks for the info. all updated. [:)]
Paul
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I tried sending an email to Chuck Maddox, but it was returned as "undeliverable". I was replying to his memory of a Frua he saw in Oakville Ontario in 1976 or '77. Old thread (How many 428 Frua are left?; page 3), but I thought I'd just add a little bit of info to the issue of what N. American cars went where. By a process of elimination, I suspect it's more likely the US-bound Fastback was CFX 029, unless his memory of the color of the car was mistaken (or if the car had already had a repaint). Inconclusive, but just a dollop of additional info. Here's what I tried to email you, Chuck:
Chuck - I was looking over the ACOC 428 forum, and in the "How many 428's are left?" thread, you mentioned a grey fastback you saw in Oakville Ontario, Canada. There's a chance it might have been my car, CFX 029. Andy Shepherd told me that CFX 029 left the factory June 4th, 1969 and was shipped to GARAGE SPECIAL SERVICES in Montreal Canada. However, Factory records state it was painted light green, with black trim (presently red with tan interior), not, as you recalled, Grey. It does have a Holly carb. So I suppose it is possible that all four cars sent to N.America went to Montreal and the US cars sent on from there. My car has a DOT body plate, identifying it as a 1970 Ford. There's no indication when the plate was issued - so it's either contemporary with the cars' original sale, or might have been issued later. Don't know, and don't know how to find out. Big help, eh? Jeff Jones. A more thorough examination of Factory shipping records would go a long way towards helping to settle the matter. DID all 4 N. America-bound cars get shipped to Canada, or not? Yet another question for Andy Shepherd.
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quote:
Originally posted by J Jones I tried sending an email to Chuck Maddox, but it was returned as "undeliverable".
Unfortunately, they don`t receive email wherever Chuck is now, as he passed away in 2008. [:(]
Great shame.
Sorry, Jeff.
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Thank you, Nik. I didn't know.
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AC 428 in Dublin on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4R1sfcqT90
E [:D]
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CF62 just sold for $95,000. Lets hope that the above accident was indeed repaired professionally or at least with factory panels! if the car is straight, in the current market, that is an OK buy! This accident supposedly happened late in the 70's when the value of these cars was at their lowest. I doubt very much the repairs were done in the best fashion. Every single panel is damaged, on all sides, it looks bent as well. Now of course everything can be repaired and a good metal smiths with time on his hands could have made this car look like new. Hum!
See at the bottom of page 2 of this thread! DLX55 is CF62
Emmanuel[:)]