AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: Alan Faulkner-Stevens on January 06, 2007, 07:35:11
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For anyone who has an interest, whilst browsing Ebay motors in the States today, I found a company selling two pre-production MkV cars, chassis numbers 005 & 006. The E-bay number is 200065655731.
There are a series of photographs of the car both finished and part built.
Alan Faulkner-Stevens
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At least the second time these have been up for grabs, although individually previously, rather than sold as a pair! Didn`t reach reserves, highest bids didn`t go over $20k if I recall correctly!
Can someone remind me which AC Cobra WON Le Mans?
AutoKraft? 2005?! At Frimley?
Bodies made in Malta.....really?
1900 Shelby Cobra.....???? Looks like a lawsuit to me!
So do we assume that Autosport Designs Inc. are no longer official US distributors fo the AC MkV?
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Autosport Designs were to be the US distributors of this car although a US distribution base was not meant to be.
Ya think!
I feel sorry for them, they are trying to recover some of the money that went down the hole in their attempt to market AC here and deal with the regime in power. But would it have killed them to turn on some lights for the photos?
Also the buyer will only have a "bill of sale", no MSO? Many states will not register a componet cat with an MSO/MCO unless the vehicle is "self constructed" and receipts for materials are provided....they may not accept the "bill of sale" for a complete roller. I would assume that "AC" would not/could not provide an MSO.
Rick
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A classic case of 'let the buyer beware', to put it mildly. Will be interesting to see whether the reserve is reached. Place your bets...
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The current US distributor is supposed to be Unique Perfornance:
See the following press release:
http://preview-publish.exigo.com/public/15/websites/38/images/News%20Release%20-%20AC.pdf
In the UK, Clive Sutton are advertising a Mk V (presumably a 'production' model for £59K.
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I've looked at the Unique site this AM. Other than the 3/30/06 press release, I'm at a loss to find anything else about the MKV. I hope it works as it will only drive up MkIV values.
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So what are these cars worth ?? how would they be able to be registered ??? Seems like something is wrong here. 2 cars built in a shop and sold with a bill of sale. No serial #'s ?? What a shame. So they could be registered as a Kit Car ??? or maybe be used a a race car ??? now thats a idea.
Ron
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I read on another site that the MKV's had very poor manufacturing qualities ?? is this true ?? So where is the whole MKV situation at ?? are the cars being made and only sold in the UK ??
Ron
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Ron, the cars are being built in Malta, although I`ve seen no independant reports from visitors to the factory.
Other than the one(s?) for sale at Clive Sutton (http://"http://www.clivesutton.net/category.php?catid=596") (who is a member of this forum), there are reportedly 'several' cars that have been shipped to America.
(http://www.clivesutton.net/content/images/20061122193558.jpg)
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Well, ONE of the 2 prototypes has re-appeared on
eBay (http://"http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Autokraft-MV-Prototype-COB-2005-005_W0QQitemZ200067936648QQihZ010QQcategoryZ6465QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem")....someone has bought the Silver one.
Would the new owner care to raise a hand?!
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There seem to be a number of these Mk V prototypes in the USA - see the link below. As well as the blue car pictured, there is also a rather lurid orange car (which I think was the first prototype)
http://accarsus.com/
I understand AC Cars USA(owned by the Boulder Speedster Company)were to be the importer before Autosport took up the reins (temporarily) in 2005.
The car is still for sale for $99,500 (Chassis No COB10003)
http://www.boulderspeedster.com/bsd/006%20ac%20blue/indices/index_1.htm
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quote:
Originally posted by Chafford
There seem to be a number of these Mk V prototypes in the USA...As well as the blue car pictured, there is also a rather lurid orange car (which I think was the first prototype)...The car is still for sale for $99,500 (Chassis No COB10003)
I think the 2 eBay cars are the only actual prototypes that were built(or mostly built)at Frimley before it closed, this blue one being an actual production MkV built(or mostly built!) in Malta, as was the orange with blue stripes one, which I guess would be ch.no COB10001.
quote:
from BoulderSpeedster.com This AC MKV is chassis number 3 and a collectors item already.
...It is a new car, a development from the original AC ACE and the Le Mans winning cars upon which AC's post-war reputation was founded...
Here we go again!!! Which Le Mans winning Cobra?
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from BoulderSpeedster.comThe MkV shares many of the historic marque's design features and parts whilst taking the classic, original, 1950's revolutionary design forward into the 21st century....
EH?
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from BoulderSpeedster.com...The MkV carbon fibre body is moulded from the original aluminium body formers....
Really! I don`t think so!
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from BoulderSpeedster.com...The carbon fibre body makes the MkV lighter than the original Cobra and it's therefore even faster. Tweaks to the chassis and suspension make sure it handles just as well, if not better. Ventilated discs stop the car reassuringly faster than its ancestor.....
Did anyone here ever have trouble stopping their original Cobra?
quote:
from BoulderSpeedster.com...And of course, being an original, the car's value will hold....
...at what though? [:)]
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quote:
I think the 2 eBay cars are the only actual prototypes that were built(or mostly built)at Frimley before it closed, this blue one being an actual production MkV built(or mostly built!) in Malta, as was the orange with blue stripes one, which I guess would be ch.no COB10001.
Interesting though that the eBay cars have the same dashboard as the car currently being advertised on Clive Sutton's website. This suggests to me that the eBay cars were produced after the orange car and COB10003. May be wrong on this though!
Perhaps Trevor Legate has a definitive list of Mk V chassis numbers.
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Is the MKV an Autokraft product?
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I have not been sent any information about the MkV other than doing my own on-line research and seeing the SVA car, plus the C.Sutton demo car at Earls Court. I doubt that these cars stand any chance being 'passed off' as any other Cobra model, since they have their own quite distinctive...err...quality...?
I note that one of the two ebay cars has (allegedly) been sold and maybe the new owner will chip in with more information - yes?
AK1131 - Autokraft is no longer trading as a company. MkV's are produced by AC Motor Holdings Ltd, based in Malta.
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quote:
Originally posted by Trevor Legate
I have not been sent any information about the MkV other than doing my own on-line research and seeing the SVA car, plus the C.Sutton demo car at Earls Court. I doubt that these cars stand any chance being 'passed off' as any other Cobra model, since they have their own quite distinctive...err...quality...?
I note that one of the two ebay cars has (allegedly) been sold and maybe the new owner will chip in with more information - yes?
AK1131 - Autokraft is no longer trading as a company. MkV's are produced by AC Motor Holdings Ltd, based in Malta.
Trevor
What impressions did you get about the Earls Court MkV? Have AC sorted out the quality issues in the latest cars?
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..Pulls up a chair and makes oneself comfy!
(http://www.manchester.gov.uk/licensing/images/263.jpg)
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as I said I looked at the Silver Car .. the carbon fiber body is not perfect, the hood and deck is thick fiber but no support backing, the fiber in a few spots you can see the tecture and Autosport makes no representation that they are perfect. Tom is a true gentlemen and looking to sell them like anyone of us. The price he offered it to me is reasonable. One thing is the brakes are superior to the MKIV the suspension is the same, the interior blue..not real my color. But overall nice car. My only reserve is I dont want to register it as some home built car.. as you can see we already debate the originality of the MKIV .. imagine the debate with a MKV that has no MSO ... I'm sorting it out for my own use, I have not purchased it yet. I need the docs that are going to state that this car is a Autocraft Cobra MKV .. not a home built cobra. So as far as I see it both cars are for sale .. on or off ebay. Tom will be happy to sell ethier one I;m sure.
Ron
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I'm not an engineer of any kind, so will not make comment about the way in which the cars are put together, drive, handle, stop, start especially since I've not driven one yet. I used to photograph prototypes and pre-production cars (which was interesting!) so I think I have a vague understanding concerning 'build quality' (and I used to drive a 911 so I tend to use that as my reference point) If you study the car in the gallery on the Clive Sutton website, you will naturally observe the shape and curve of the wheelarches, esp. the rear arch, in the profile shot - does that look correct to you? and the manner in which the bonnet (hood) 'fits'? Also check the panel gaps, hood in particular - instead of an even 3-4mm all round, its more like 10+/- The fit and finish of the interior is not good - the way the gear-knob was plonked in place, showing and inch or so of thread, door panel trim kept in place by two metal lugs, so it flops about...?? If I had built that at home, I would be depressed. 59,000 of my hard earned pounds - don't think so. As a dedicated fan of the AC marque (as was) I am naturally far from happy re the situation. I would love the MkV to be the car that carried on from the MkIV, but it's not even close - in my opinion!! Possibly these issues will be addressed in time and the car will be improved, as is the way with hand-made autos and no doubt John Owen will see to it. I would urge all concerned to pay no attention to me and make their own judgement. I mean, I meant a chap the other day who drives an Austin Maxi and he adores it - seriously!! A fine automobile and a paragon of reliability... :-) It's a funny old world.
(I wish you'd finish your lunch Nik...it keeps coming back)
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quote:
Originally posted by ak1234
....I need the docs that are going to state that this car is a Autocraft Cobra MKV .. not a home built cobra....Ron
Sorry, mate, but there ain`t NO WAY you could get that, as AutoKraft no longer exists, and I don`t believe the name was ever associated with the MkV.
It could only be described as an "AC MkV" manufactured by either AC Cars Ltd(but I don`t think that entity still exists either)or AC Cars Manufacturing(Malta), a subsidiary of Acedes Holdings or similar(whatever it may be this week).
Trevor, having seen the car in the...erm...flesh, does it really look like a 92" wb body on a 90" wheelbase chassis?
It certainly looks like the bonnet radius doesn`t match the curve of the car, and I thought it was unlatched at the back, to aid cooling maybe?![:p]
Hard to tell really, when half of the pictures don`t show up on the gallery page. I wonder if that`s intentional?
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Hi guys.... interesting topic. I may have some to add.
On June 6, 2006, I was on my way to the ACOC's International in Wales and stopped at Brooklands Motor Company in Weybridge, paying a visit to Steve Gray in Weybridge, to look at his panel beating work. While there I spotted a RHD MkV in some kind of light grey colour. I have recently been digging out pictures I had taken, not about that car in particular, but the MkV can be seen. Questioned by me about the MkV, Steve mentioned he is passing the car through the homologation/registration process in the UK, on behalf of AC. End of conversation on that topic as I had no further interest, focussing my attention on MkIV bodies and chassis work.
Looking at the pictures again (I have not yet taken time to study how to post them here), the MkV I saw is not identical to the car advertised on Clive Suttons website. It looks rather identical to the one that AC have on their website www.acautomotive.info/ same wiper set-up, wooden boot rack, head rests incorporated into the roll hoops.....
Maybe Trevor Legate or someone else in the UK could have a word with Steve Gray to find out more.
I can mail pics to Trevor if of interest.
Regards
Constant
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Thank you Trevor for answering my question.
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Hi Constant
Yes I saw that car. I had a very similar conversation with Steve and I believe it now has a UK owner but lives in France. I had a very quick look round it but did not take any photos. It probably was the car from the website as it was fitted with a number of 'extras' - I loved the way the luggage rack was mounted on the wings and not the boot lid (wonder why?) and therefore you had to unbolt and remove the rack to open the boot more than two inches. Just the thing for a trip to the supermarket!! Different. I thought the front 3/4 shape looked quite good and as you say, may have been slightly different to the other MkV in question. Feel free to email me pics if you wish! Thanks.
Brooklands had the car since, as you probably know, it is the official service and repair agent for AC(Malta) in the UK. (More of than anon, no doubt)
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Look at the square tubing connecting the front shock towers! Cheap, It's unfortunate they are called ACs'! I would not swear to it, but it looks like fiberglass body to me! Dash is horrible, cheap plastic! What are these rear lights, maybe it's to drive in reverse![:)] ? I would not pay 20K for this!
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Emmanuel, at last something we can agree on ![:0]
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So how many Mk Vs has AC built - 10? 15?
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Its a pity that everyone seems to be negative about the Mk V.
Would it be better if the car never existed?
Yes, the design is different but so is the legislation that dictates a cars design, performance and market appeal.
I say give Malta encouragement to develop the car. I for one, as an AC owner, give the company support and hope that they can and will succeed.
Terry
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I think the issue here is quality. The MkIV set high standards in this respect, so AC are expected to provide similar quality in the MkV especially as they are charging almost £60k for a full-spec version.
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I would suspect that there are some initail start up issues. Owens work at AC does not include poor quality anything, that includes SB's, Ace's, Aceca's, CRS's or the now MKV. This sounds like a supplier issue from whomever is doing the bodies. The mechanicals and the rest are completely sorted out. Wish them well!
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A fair point well said, let's hope they get better - John.
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quote:
Originally posted by jbottini
I would suspect that there are some initial start up issues. Owens work at AC does not include poor quality anything, that includes SB's, Ace's, Aceca's, CRS's or the now MKV. This sounds like a supplier issue from whomever is doing the bodies. The mechanicals and the rest are completely sorted out. Wish them well!
Except that they've been building cars for a couple of years now.I don't doubt that the mechanicals are well sorted, but quality of finish is everything at this price level. I wonder if John Owen is regretting the move to Malta.
I wish AC well, but wonder whether they will be able to overcome the initial bad press coverage on the Mk V on both sides of the Pond.
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Ditto Terry`s point(well said that man). When the MkIV first saw the light of day there were 'shouldn`t be allowed', 'not in the name of AC' type criticisms, but the build quality & company ethic silenced all but the most hostile of critics. The same with the ME and more recently the Brooklands Ace, which I think would have developed into a popular model if not for the untimely demise of Autokraft.
So yes. I want an AC MkV, new Ace, Greyhound, Sociable, whatever... as long as the quality is there in the vehicle, and the company that calls itself 'AC' too, neither of which to this distant observer appear to be the case.
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quote:
Originally posted by Trevor Legate
Hi Constant
........... Feel free to email me pics if you wish! ........
Hi Trevor,
Thanks for your feedback. I will mail the pics where some of that MkV can be seen.
Regards
Constant
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To all members of the AC Owners Club,
I love this Brand and on occasions I look at some of the forums set up supposedly to support it. Up until now I have refrained from lowering myself to the level of some of the contibutors to respond to some of the rediculus comments. But now having seen my name being quoted in some of the comments I believe I need to put the record straight. I sincerely hope this is the only time I will ever feel compelled to respond as to be honest I have a lot of better things to do.
.....................................................
This statement is prepared by John Owen in response to the many comments being posted on the AC Owners Club chat Forum.
AC Cars is currently based in Malta. We brought 10 - 40' containers of parts, machines, Jigs and equipment over from the UK. We took over an empty factory without any services, we have installed all the equipment, employed 15 local staff with various skills, trained them, made new moulds, jigs and tooling, established a new network of suppliers both through imports and local sources.
Believe me it has not been easy for many reasons. A number of cars have been produced, the early cars being prototypes which were used in the training the staff and prove out of the new moulds and processes.
We are now in a position to and have proved we are capable of producing cars of the quality expected by AC owners.
The AC MKV is a new model, it is not referred to as a 'Cobra' although obviously has many common features. The car has to comply with current regulations which has necessitated a number of design changes to the build spec. Many of the MKIV and CRS donor components are now obsolete and have therefore had to be replaced with modern equivalents. We have upgraded the car mechanically with the selection of new high performance brakes and the addition of power steering, initially on the RHD variant. All of this takes time and a lot of effort.
I read some of the comments on the Club forum and it depresses me. Not one person who make the comments has visited the factory, no one has contacted me at the factory to ask questions about the cars, the factory or even about the beautiful island of Malta. I object to my name being used (sometines spelt incorrectly!) in speculation as to my personal feelings working with AC.
All I read in the Forum is speculation about what is supposedly happening in Malta, which is mostly totally unfounded.
2007 will see more cars being produced to a quality level I am personally proud of. This the beginning of a new era for AC,it has taken time to get going and if anyone doubts our commitment they should have a go at producing a complete car from raw materials.
I have been in Malta for just over 2 years, I love the place and I have enjoyed the challenge, albeit being very hard work. I appreciate that the only way we will shut up many of the critics is to produce cars, This is what we will be doing this year, we have orders and will supply.
I welcome anyone who comes to Malta to contact me to arrange a visit the factory to see for yourself what we are doing.
If someone has a question about AC past or present, technical or otherwise ask me and I will do my best to give them an answer as I have all the historic records here, they haven't been scrapped!!
We are setting up a parts supply facility for many of the cars past and present and will help where possible to supply the parts from stock or advise where best to obtain them.
I hope this may put a few of you straight on what is happening at AC and may be stop some of the ridiculous comments being made and maybe I might read some support for the company that without it there wouldn't be a club!
Maybe next time I visit the Forum I will be pleasantly pleased at the comments and not be depressed!!
Statement by:
John Owen [8D](Maltese sun)
Chief Engineer
AC Cars
owenjfo@gmail.com
+356 79289427
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quote:
1)'All I read in the Forum is speculation about what is supposedly happening in Malta, which is mostly totally unfounded.'
2)'....we have orders and will supply.'
3)'If someone has a question about AC past or present, technical or otherwise ask me and I will do my best to give them an answer as I have all the historic records here, they haven't been scrapped!!'
John
1)The speculation has arisen because over the past couple of years there have been no detailed articles (correct me if I'm wrong)in the Press about the company, factory or car. People might also have speculated why there have been three US importers of the MkV in the past 2 years- Boulder, Autosport and Unique Performance.
2) Good news about the orders and parts supply and as I previously stated, I wish AC well with the business.
3)I have a number of questions:
- How many Mk Vs have you produced to date?
- How many are you planning to produce this year and which countries will you be exporting to?
- Are you planning to expand your dealership network in the UK?
- What Chassis Numbering sequence are you using for the MkV?
- Is the body Carbon Fibre or Glass Fibre?
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Chafford
As I stated in my statement, if you have a question contact me direct.
I WILL NOT CONDUCT QUESTION ANSWER SESSIONS IN A NON SUPPORTIVE FORUM
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Malta.
What is your problem with addressing questions on an open forum?
Frightened of getting tripped up?
I do hope your product does come up to scratch with quality levels that you are hoping for. But i don't think it was a very clever business move promoting a "Premium brand" using such poorly finished examples.
You have obviously paid substantial sums to own and use the name in order to maximise prices and also by producing the cars in Malta away form the natural skill base. Again to maximise profit.
And you wonder why you are getting flack.
This site has many members who (I'm sure) quite often have their cars mistaken for "Replicas" (Much to their dismay, I'm sure)and there is no more sure fire way of making someone think that a car is a "Cheap kit car" than having body panels that don't fit and wheels that are not set correctly in the wheel arches. There are many , many self built DIY kit cars around that would not realise 25% of the prices being asked here in the UK for your product.
How dare you insult "Your " loyal customer base by asking so much for an ill prepared product.
disgusted.
P.S. Hello everyone else....Before this gets deleted.
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quote:
Originally posted by dave
Malta.
What is your problem with addressing questions on an open forum?
Frightened of getting tripped up?
I do hope your product does come up to scratch with quality levels that you are hoping for. But i don't think it was a very clever business move promoting a "Premium brand" using such poorly finished examples.
You have obviously paid substantial sums to own and use the name in order to maximise prices and also by producing the cars in Malta away form the natural skill base. Again to maximise profit.
And you wonder why you are getting flack.
This site has many members who (I'm sure) quite often have their cars mistaken for "Replicas" (Much to their dismay, I'm sure)and there is no more sure fire way of making someone think that a car is a "Cheap kit car" than having body panels that don't fit and wheels that are not set correctly in the wheel arches. There are many , many self built DIY kit cars around that would not realise 25% of the prices being asked here in the UK for your product.
How dare you insult "Your " loyal customer base by asking so much for an ill prepared product.
disgusted.
P.S. Hello everyone else....Before this gets deleted.
Including your own?
http://www.v8cobra.com/
Constructive criticism is fine but I think you're flaming [}:)]
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Amazing, point proved!!!!!!!
YOU HAVE MY NUMBER AND EMAIL use it
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quote:
Originally posted by Chafford
quote:
Originally posted by dave
Malta.
What is your problem with addressing questions on an open forum?
Frightened of getting tripped up?
I do hope your product does come up to scratch with quality levels that you are hoping for. But i don't think it was a very clever business move promoting a "Premium brand" using such poorly finished examples.
You have obviously paid substantial sums to own and use the name in order to maximise prices and also by producing the cars in Malta away form the natural skill base. Again to maximise profit.
And you wonder why you are getting flack.
This site has many members who (I'm sure) quite often have their cars mistaken for "Replicas" (Much to their dismay, I'm sure)and there is no more sure fire way of making someone think that a car is a "Cheap kit car" than having body panels that don't fit and wheels that are not set correctly in the wheel arches. There are many , many self built DIY kit cars around that would not realise 25% of the prices being asked here in the UK for your product.
How dare you insult "Your " loyal customer base by asking so much for an ill prepared product.
disgusted.
P.S. Hello everyone else....Before this gets deleted.
Including your own?
http://www.v8cobra.com/
Constructive criticism is fine but I think you're flaming [}:)]
With respect I think Daves post is relavent in that any critism/reply should be addressed openly. It shows a more professional outlook that prospective customers can judge. Anything that sweeps it under the table/off-forum shows a lack of commitment/something that needs hiding in the product. Several people have shown concerns as to the quality/finish of the product shown. So why should Malta address these issues in such an offhand manner? In my opinion in dosn't belay customer confidence!
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quote:
Originally posted by Chafford
quote:
Originally posted by dave
Malta.
What is your problem with addressing questions on an open forum?
Frightened of getting tripped up?
I do hope your product does come up to scratch with quality levels that you are hoping for. But i don't think it was a very clever business move promoting a "Premium brand" using such poorly finished examples.
You have obviously paid substantial sums to own and use the name in order to maximise prices and also by producing the cars in Malta away form the natural skill base. Again to maximise profit.
And you wonder why you are getting flack.
This site has many members who (I'm sure) quite often have their cars mistaken for "Replicas" (Much to their dismay, I'm sure)and there is no more sure fire way of making someone think that a car is a "Cheap kit car" than having body panels that don't fit and wheels that are not set correctly in the wheel arches. There are many , many self built DIY kit cars around that would not realise 25% of the prices being asked here in the UK for your product.
How dare you insult "Your " loyal customer base by asking so much for an ill prepared product.
disgusted.
P.S. Hello everyone else....Before this gets deleted.
Including your own?
http://www.v8cobra.com/
Constructive criticism is fine but I think you're flaming [}:)]
Mine are more expensive than 25%.[;)]
Anyone that knows me would know that I've not arrived here to "Blow my own trumpet".
I am not impressed that people can buy a brand (Which has significant heritage) and churn out something not befitting under that name and charge accordingly.
Cobras stopped being made in the 1960's. Anything after is a replica, the MkIV was a very nice tribute, the CRS looks like a company scratching around for orders. The MkV....Well so far you know my feelings.
£60K to spend? Buy a Kirkham and get real respect from owners of 1960's originals.
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Those who want a bit more perspective on Dave and Purple's views may want to visit:
http://www.cobraclub.com/forum/showthread.php?p=178661#post178661
Is Jade's approach to life is catching on?
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John,
DAVE & PURPLE are definately not the example on this forum, if you read the other forum, they are making a mockery of there posts here, and I for one resent them for there conduct. There is a lot of great people here, I myself come here for information, most of the times get tons of invaluable information related to my MKIV.
I dont understand it all ... I'm interested in the MKV. MINOR flaws I seen with my eyes are expected on a Prototype. For me it simple to fix and own a piece of history.
I myself have contacted you on many occations and you have been nothing but a Gentlemen and I must say the parts you supplied for my rear end ...left me speechless.. I never purchased a kit with everything labelled, taged and directions that actually worked.
You have my support and respect.
Ron
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quote:
Originally posted by ak1234
John,
DAVE & PURPLE are definately not the example on this forum, if you read the other forum, they are making a mockery of there posts here, and I for one resent them for there conduct. There is a lot of great people here, I myself come here for information, most of the times get tons of invaluable information related to my MKIV.
I dont understand it all ... I'm interested in the MKV. MINOR flaws I seen with my eyes are expected on a Prototype. For me it simple to fix and own a piece of history.
Ron
Hi Ron.
Mockery? Not really, I have seen this sort of situation before. You try and offer advice and they get shot down by people who are less informed or who have something to gain from shooting you down.
I think you should reserve juggment on people until you have the whole picture.
When you have seen the MKV (Or at least the one shown in the UK) then maybe you will see where myself and Purple are coming from.
If you'd like me to leave then you only have to ask and I'll go quietly.
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quote:
I'm interested in the MKV. MINOR flaws I seen with my eyes are expected on a Prototype. For me it simple to fix and own a piece of history.
Flaws are indeed expected on a prototype and can be fixed. My concern is that someone like Trevor Legate is concerned about the quality of the first Clive Sutton production car.
And on a more general note, AC could use this website to their advantage by publishing news and pictures of the factory and cars which would remove much of the speculation. They should also update their website(the drop-down menus aren't currently working).
And if you're trying to sell a product why wait until the customers come to you?
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.. I have seen two of the prototypes and not 100% sure on what all the heip is about ??
I assure you I own 1 of the pictures and seen 2 mores of the pictures. Didnt see the producton version.
My point is simple and I'm out of this post. People pay the same money for Home Builts, Street Rods built in some ones garage, Replicas, that go for the same price in the USA .. cant say about the UK .. for POOR Quality Cars. Then they pound on a manufacturer who released Prototypes to distributors and judge quality ??
Basically if the production car is released its up to the manufactuer and distributor to do some old fashion American Marketing and get them sold ... maybe there not ready for that yet.
Your right I'm no expert I only speak from my own experiences with the cars I own and have seen.
My take I support AC'c venture and you should to .. because even if you dont want to believe it .. with AC in business and someone using the MARQUE ... it adds to the value of your present REPLICA and all of the present CARS which resemble the COBRA ... other wise the MARQUE will die over time.
My 2 Cents.
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Mr. Owen,
I understand your conerns about this being a "non supportive" forum. However, what support or input has AC provided to it up to the point of your posting?
I must admit upfront that I have "issues" with AC as it currently exists and I agree that you should not indulge in a discourse with someone who does not want to hear what you say. If requested by yourself or the administrator, I will refrain from any future posting on this subject, I think that is fair enough. Please don't deprive others here of your input due to my views.
While I have met you, and had limited interaction with yourself, you were a gentleman and I understand that your hands were tied at the time so that many communications to yourself went unanswered.
However, to come to this site and state that you will not publiclly post information is a dis-service to the many who frequent this site as well as giving the image that AC has "something to hide."
Is there a certain level of doubt here (and on several other related boards)...for sure! The press releases of the previous years (ranging from the Swiss business school that was to make AC a graduate project to the Conn. "factory" announcement) have caused most to look at any information coming from AC with a grain of salt at best, with laughter and derision at worst. Perhaps this is an opportunity to reverse some of that image.
Going through three US distributors in the last two years without ever really getting any product out in the field has not helped the image. Perhaps the best business model would be to, as JBottini taught me many years ago, "underpromise and overdeliver."
I hope the firm will survive to keep parts available for years to come, I just question if AC will ever really be an auto manufacturer ever again.
Again, please don't let me keep you off this site...just say the word and I shall cease posting.
Regards,
Rick
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Dave.
I'm not sure that making statements like "how dare you insult your customer base" and signing off "disgusted" would be construed by most people as a way in which "you try to offer people advice".
You have a good reputation for offering advice to the UK Cobra Club members. John Owen also has a good and long standing reputation for providing advice to AC owners. You are happy to do so through public internet forums while he clearly prefers to deal by e mail and phone.
You imply that you "have the whole picture" and that AK 1234 is "less informed". This is despite the fact that he had already stated, and has just repeated, that he has seen 2 of the actual cars and has been an active member of this site since it's inception.
What elements of the picture have you and Purple seen that we have not and have you yourself seen one of the Mk Vs in the flesh?
Seeking to gain support for an attack on John Owen from the UK Cobra Club site using the exact same phrase as the infamous Jade and bragging about your previous battles may look like an attempt at bullying. It may also be viewed as the efforts of someone trying to "gain something by shooting you (in this case AC Cars, who you could well see as a potential competitor) down".
You are good at building high quality replicas. John has shown in the past that he can build AC's to a world renowned level of quality. Those of us who are lucky enough to own them are highly appreciative of this. I, for one, hope that he can continue to do so in the future and thus keep alive a marque that we all love.
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quote:
Originally posted by SB7019
Dave.
I'm not sure that making statements like "how dare you insult your customer base" and signing off "disgusted" would be construed by most people as a way in which "you try to offer people advice".
You have a good reputation for offering advice to the UK Cobra Club members. John Owen also has a good and long standing reputation for providing advice to AC owners. You are happy to do so through public internet forums while he clearly prefers to deal by e mail and phone.
You imply that you "have the whole picture" and that AK 1234 is "less informed". This is despite the fact that he had already stated, and has just repeated, that he has seen 2 of the actual cars and has been an active member of this site since it's inception.
What elements of the picture have you and Purple seen that we have not and have you yourself seen one of the Mk Vs in the flesh?
Seeking to gain support for an attack on John Owen from the UK Cobra Club site using the exact same phrase as the infamous Jade and bragging about your previous battles may look like an attempt at bullying. It may also be viewed as the efforts of someone trying to "gain something by shooting you (in this case AC Cars, who you could well see as a potential competitor) down".
You are good at building high quality replicas. John has shown in the past that he can build AC's to a world renowned level of quality. Those of us who are lucky enough to own them are highly appreciative of this. I, for one, hope that he can continue to do so in the future and thus keep alive a marque that we all love.
I have refrained from replying sooner because I thought that maybe I had barged in unwelcomed. And if you guys feel that my comments are unwelcome and not needed I will happily leave you in peace. I realise that this is the Holy Grail Of AC Ownership, But Both mine and Daves comments were mearly an Echo of a lot of of members on here, Some of whom are held in the highest regard as to all things Cobra. No I have not seen a MkV in the flesh, But the many pictures I have seen, Clive Suttons included. Don't do the Marque any favours at all. Frankly the Body Fit/Shut lines don't even compare with a Low End Kit Car let alone a Production Car. If I were potential buyer I wouldn't stop for a second glance, given that presentation of product. Knowone is slating John Owen, But Maybe constructive critism can sometimes open peoples eyes to the fact that they are not always right, and improvements can and should be made. At the moment there are a lot of better Replicas out there. Now is the time to step up and smell the coffee, and make the AC badge the Top Runner. It may carry an AC badge, But is it actually worth £60k ???
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quote:
1)Frankly the Body Fit/Shut lines don't even compare with a Low End Kit Car let alone a Production Car.
2)At the moment there are a lot of better Replicas out there.
3)It may carry an AC badge, But is it actually worth £60k ???
1)Looking again at the Clive Sutton pictures, the finish actually doesn't look bad to me. OK the shut lines on the bonnet aren't as good as a late-model Superblower, but I like the dash which uses the Superblower's instrument panel. Neat and low-key in my opinion.
2) In terms of finish, Jerry Hawkridge's Kirkham replicas currently lead the field. However in terms of handling and braking, I wouldn't be surprised if the MkV were the best-handling of its type. However we won't know until AC release a Mk V for testing.
3)For a small number of enthusiasts 'Yes' - the AC badge and heritage still mean something. And it has a two-year warranty and I'm sure the lighting meets all the EU standards (unlike many replicas!).
So some way to go before it achieves the standards of a late aluminium car but not all bad news. Now over to AC to properly market the car and ensure customers are given good service.
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quote:
Originally posted by Malta
To all members of the AC Owners Club,
I love this Brand and on occasions I look at some of the forums set up supposedly to support it. Up until now I have refrained from lowering myself to the level of some of the contibutors to respond to some of the rediculus comments. But now having seen my name being quoted in some of the comments I believe I need to put the record straight. I sincerely hope this is the only time I will ever feel compelled to respond as to be honest I have a lot of better things to do.
............................................
We are now in a position to and have proved we are capable of producing cars of the quality expected by AC owners.
............................................
The AC MKV is a new model, it is not referred to as a 'Cobra' although obviously has many common features. The car has to comply with current regulations which has necessitated a number of design changes to the build spec. Many of the MKIV and CRS donor components are now obsolete and have therefore had to be replaced with modern equivalents. We have upgraded the car mechanically with the selection of new high performance brakes and the addition of power steering, initially on the RHD variant. All of this takes time and a lot of effort.
I read some of the comments on the Club forum and it depresses me. Not one person who make the comments has visited the factory, no one has contacted me at the factory to ask questions about the cars, the factory or even about the beautiful island of Malta. I object to my name being used (sometines spelt incorrectly!) in speculation as to my personal feelings working with AC.
............................................
If someone has a question about AC past or present, technical or otherwise ask me and I will do my best to give them an answer as I have all the historic records here, they haven't been scrapped!!
We are setting up a parts supply facility for many of the cars past and present and will help where possible to supply the parts from stock or advise where best to obtain them.
................................................
Statement by:
John Owen [8D](Maltese sun)
Chief Engineer
AC Cars
owenjfo@gmail.com
+356 79289427
John,
I think everybody is hoping that AC will do well in the future, we also are aware that today's world is different. However, the cars that we have seen so far don't seem to meet the expectations of owners of past ACs' and MKIVs'. Most people who own these cars are pretty savvy mechanically and I am sure are able to see the difference between cost cutting and modern technological needs (I am being nice!). Such a thing as aluminum body or leather covered interior are a must in this price range. The Mark IV was a quality automobile, The later models had handsome leather interiors and quality body and paint. This is why there is such loyal following to this day.
quote:
Originally posted by Malta
Chafford
As I stated in my statement, if you have a question contact me direct.
I WILL NOT CONDUCT QUESTION ANSWER SESSIONS IN A NON SUPPORTIVE FORUM
The negative comments seen above should be regarded by you and your staff as constructive criticisms and I think should be seriously addressed by your company. Dialogue will be very important to win over loyal customers; most small companies fail in this industry. The few companies who are successful build a loyal customer base and address their customer’s wishes. [:(!]
We all wish you well, and hope to be able to become loyal clients. By the way, I just saw a new English made aluminum Jaguar C type replica which was absolutely gorgeous to the last detail, so it is indeed possible to build quality products in today's world.
Emmanuel
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Purple.
I absolutely agree that constructive criticism is valid and valuable. The tone of the postings from Dave, both here and on the UK Cobra Club, is far from constructive and it does, indeed, appear to be slating John Owen. The statement that:- "I've done battle with the mighty Vince, so AC Cars shouldn't be too much trouble" does not imply a constructive intent.
I, for one, would prefer that the current operation be allowed to focus it's attention on creating cars to a quality level that John can "be personally proud of" rather than being drawn in to engaging in battles in forums such as these. If this can be done then the dealers and their customers can be the judges of what price the vehicle can command.
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I couldnt see fit and quality from hundreds of pic's they sent me .. I got my rearend off the couch and went and seen the cars. I can tell you this from prototypes .. these cars will sell and people are going to pay the price when they do. Like we repeat what the DONALD say in NYC " build and they WILL come".
Comments about he wheel openings .. means they will fit larger wheels and tires .. a lot of you like 15" I like 17" ..to each is own. It may be the first to bring the Cobra into the 21st century .. can you even get large size 15" tires anymore ?
One minor detail I have observed by comparing Cobra's .. there is a few different Cobra Replica's out there that have the worst proportion of rear fenders and rear deck .. these things rise above the rear seats like 18" ... so if one of these cobra replica's is compared to either the MKIV or MKV .. please theres no comparison.
Dave & Purple .. by no means have I implied or have the ability to tell you to come or go .. I guess I like to promote the Marque.
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On reading some of the replies since my posts I realise that i should perhaps have re-worded what i have said.
I am not interested in shape or authenticity, rear deck height or dashboard layout. My only concers was the fit of the panels and the positioning of the wheels in the arches on the car I saw at the NEC show.
The wheels issue is not a size thing, they are just not in the middle of the arch (Fore and aft), not amount of tyre and wheel size changing will alter this.
The "Vince" thing:-
A New(ish) manufacturer came onto the kit Cobra scene and asked people what they thought of his product. I told him and he was not impressed. To the point he started threatening me with legal action and ranting on my stand at shows. I saw a design feature on his car that i thought was dangerous and because he has a HNC (Whoopy doo) Thought that anything I said was unfounded because I don't have a HNC.
It all turned ugly when he decided that I was part of some sort of conspiracy as some other people also did not like the component in question.
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quote:
The wheels issue is not a size thing, they are just not in the middle of the arch (Fore and aft), not amount of tyre and wheel size changing will alter this.
Can't see much problem myself, but no doubt you're much more of an expert than I am.
http://www.clivesutton.net/category.php?catid=601
Any different from a CRS?
http://www.bramleyweb.co.uk/carsales/details.asp?StockID=1489
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Dave. Peace! My issue was not so much what you said but the manner in which you did so.
Chafford. Difficult to tell from the picture as the photographer has used a lens with far too wide an angle for side on shots. This tends to distort the shot and "bend" the car - you can see the same effect in the hedge in the background. However Dave says that the problem is apparent in the flesh so let's hope it can be fixed. My fear is that it may be that the front and rear of the bodywork have had to be pushed up in order to meet light and bumper height regulations and, possibly, the new pedestrian impact regulations. The latter is constraining many car designers at present and is the reason, for instance, why the front of the new Jaguar XK is not as good looking as it could have been.
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Dave / Purple . .. peace here to .. I guess it was incouraging that the manufacturer actually spoke up in this forum .. to me that was a treat .. unfortunatley it was to defend some comments. Even the big 3 have lemons ... the kinks will be worked out and we will all benefit... Did you see the Shelby that sold for 5 M at BJ ????
Ron
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Please note that the AC web site has been updated with some new photos of the MKV
www.accars.eu
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Engine looks fantastic and the wheels look as if they now sit well in their arches. I have been contemplating for some time a change form the standard Ford EFI system to something like this (Edelbrock?) but can't work out how to make the connections to the supercharger in a manner that works and looks good. Has anyone tried this? The roll bars look a bit low for my taste but I presume that this could be a very easy change if the customer wanted them to be taller.
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quote:
Originally posted by Malta
Please note that the AC web site has been updated with some new photos of the MKV
www.accars.eu
John
Much improved fit and finish on this car and an attractive interior. All you need to do now is market the car.
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quote:
Originally posted by ak1234
Dave / Purple . .. peace here to .. I guess it was incouraging that the manufacturer actually spoke up in this forum .. to me that was a treat .. unfortunatley it was to defend some comments. Even the big 3 have lemons ... the kinks will be worked out and we will all benefit... Did you see the Shelby that sold for 5 M at BJ ????
Ron
Hi Ron. Yes the Shelby has been posted around. $5.5M I believe it finally went for![:0] Not a bad years work for the seller eh! $4.5M Profit on what he paid last year [;)]
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quote:
Originally posted by SB7019
Engine looks fantastic and the wheels look as if they now sit well in their arches. I have been contemplating for some time a change form the standard Ford EFI system to something like this (Edelbrock?) but can't work out how to make the connections to the supercharger in a manner that works and looks good. Has anyone tried this? The roll bars look a bit low for my taste but I presume that this could be a very easy change if the customer wanted them to be taller.
Good news all round for AC [:)]
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John ( Malta ) pics look great ... as I said " build and they will come " .. LOL
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I think this is the first Mk V prototype from 2004.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/PrototypeACMkV.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/FirstPrototypeACMkVInterior.jpg)
The latest car on the AC Cars website is a vast improvement on this early prototype.
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And here's AC Mk V chassis number 3 (COB10003), the car advertised on the Boulder Speedsters website. I think this car precedes the two cars recently advertised by Autosport on ebay.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMkVChassisNo3.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVChassis3Interior.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMkVChassis3RearView.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACCarsMKVCOB10003.jpg)
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If I recall correctly, the instrument cluster on Ch.0001 is from a Mustang, 0003 is a significant improvement.
I sincerely hope that 2007 is the year that John Owen indeed gets the car he can be proud of into 'full' production and we critics can be silenced!
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
If I recall correctly, the instrument cluster on Ch.0001 is from a Mustang, 0003 is a significant improvement.
I sincerely hope that 2007 is the year that John Owen indeed gets the car he can be proud of into 'full' production and we critics can be silenced!
The pictures of the car recently added to the AC Cars website makes me optimistic.
The instrument cluster on the production models is the pattern used on the prototype being sold by Autosport (chassis 005):
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVPrototypeAutosportFrontView.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVPrototypeInstrumentPanel.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVPrototypeInterior1.jpg)
Someone should snap up this car and with a bit of polishing will have a very nice machine at a bargain price! [:)]
And here's the production MKV with the same pattern instrument cluster:
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVCliveSuttonRearView.jpg)
[/img]
(http://www.acautomotive.info/gallery/MKV/mkv006.jpg)
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But just a moment - do my tired old eyes deceive me, or does the plaque on the orange jobby, 0001, clearly state 'This AC Cobra....' ? Cobra? Surely a slip of the engravers tool, so to speak. Hope nobody else ever gets to see that....
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Picture removed.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chafford
Picture removed.
Damn. How did I miss that? (Mind you, it was stupid o-clock when I was looking at this.)
Swine! Did you have to delete it off photobucket too????[;)]
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Fraid so! Probably an unintentional error and not one to risk litigation over.
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Yeah...but I`ll bet it`s still on the Car!
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No it was never there in the first place - just my little joke M'Lud..ahem...I have a sick sense of humour, shame on me.
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Some more photos of AC MK V COB10003:
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVCOB10003Suspension.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVCOB10003Brakes2.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVCOB10003Brakes.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVCOB10003Brakes-1.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVCOB10003Wheel.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVCOB10003Instruments.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVCOB10003RearLights.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVCOB10003Engine.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVEngine3.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/londres2012/ACMKVCOB10003Engine4.jpg)
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Suspension and brakes all look very familiar. Engine looks fantastic with that induction set up. Looks a different injection system to the last one that was photographed - does anyone know what systam it is?
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quote:
Originally posted by SB7019
Suspension and brakes all look very familiar. Engine looks fantastic with that induction set up. Looks a different injection system to the last one that was photographed - does anyone know what systam it is?
Certainly different from the production version on the AC Cars website.
(http://www.acautomotive.info/gallery/MKV/mkv001.jpg)
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Speaking of which I noticed aftermarket IR EFI ...anyone have any knowledge of this set up ???
Ron
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IR EFI?
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Independent Runner Eelctronic Fuel Injection is what I'm seeing on that Blue MKV. Curiuos as to who;s setup it is. I have a intake being made for my Pantera. 351W with Cleveland style heads. But have not purchased the hardware and electronics. Still researching.
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thanks for the explanation
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Hello again.
Sorry for being a pedant but the front brake rotor on the blue car is fitted the wrong way around.
(Reason: The vanes in the vents are angled and should be angled the other way so that when the wheel spins it draws air in through ther centre and centrifugal forces push the air out of the perimiter).
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Dave. A good point well made.
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quote:
Originally posted by dave
Hello again.
Sorry for being a pedant but the front brake rotor on the blue car is fitted the wrong way around.
(Reason: The vanes in the vents are angled and should be angled the other way so that when the wheel spins it draws air in through ther centre and centrifugal forces push the air out of the perimiter).
Dave
The car is on sale at:
http://www.boulderspeedster.com/bsd/indexinv.htm
Do you wish to contact them about this? (email address at link)
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Done!.
>>>>
Hi.
Just thought I'd let you know that the front brake rotor pictured on the blue 2006 AC MK V (Chassis number 003) is fitted the wrong way around. In that the cooling vanes should point in the opposite direction for wheel rotation enhanced cooling.
Regards.
D Brookes.
<<<<
I'll let you know if i get a reply.
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When I visited 006 it was the same way. But keep in mind vented is better then non vented like the MKIV. It may only be case of switching the left side with the right.. Usually the anlge vented are lefts or rights. and some only the front are angled and rears are straight vented.
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But Mk IV front rotors ARE vented! The rears are not however...
Rick
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quote:
Originally posted by ak1234
When I visited 006 it was the same way.
Nice to know that even though quality/integrity is down consistency is up.
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... have to checl that again ... If I recall the fronts on mine were not ... vented.
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quote:
Originally posted by Trevor Legate
A classic case of 'let the buyer beware', to put it mildly. Will be interesting to see whether the reserve is reached. Place your bets...
Hi Trevor,
Did you get my email re the long nosed and short nosed cars?
Kind Regards
Rick
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Deja Vú anyone? (http://"http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNARL%3AMT%3A12&viewitem=&item=200090138940")
Look what`s back on eBay, currently bid to $1000 more than last time , but not met the reserve....it`s the Green MkV:
(http://images.andale.com/f2/108/102/17911005/2007/1/11/17.JPG)
"The actual year and serial number is as follows...
2005 Autokraft-AC MK V, Serial # 2005/005"
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The car is pictured in the alley outside AC's Malta factory, if anyone cares..
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There are some new pictures of the Mk V on Clive Sutton's website:
http://www.clivesutton.net/category.php?catid=596