AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: Jan_AC_MKIV_1227 on December 17, 2006, 23:37:34
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hello all,
well took a few whacks with the hammer and the wing did not budge, on the passenger side do I remove clockwise? (right), basically the same direction as the wheel would spin?? Am I missing something or are the spinners just a pain in the axx to get off?
any advice is appreciated here, I never removed one before.
jan
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Jan, Assuming your US car is lhd, you remove the spinner by wacking the ear at the 12:00 o'clock position by hitting it so as to turn anti clockwise or towards the rear. lefty loosey on pass side remember? It may take quite a few wacks going arround the cicumference before you get any lossness. Try a little wd 40 or penetrating oil. LAST resort is heating the spinner, NOT THE SHAFT, gently to get it to expand .
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Jan, refer to my earlier post as well, You must take the majority of weight off the wheel, full weight causes wheel to press outward into spinner...making it tighter. I probably went arround mine counterclockwise for 6 wacks per ear, each ear 2-3 wacks per time with minisclule moovement. they don't seem to just loosen and spin off with one hit. I've also used the tool that finishline sells...difficult with that as well, but broke a recalitrant one loose.
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Jim needs to apologise. jim must read more carefully..lefty lossey, anticlockwise on US drivers side, Righty lossey clockwise on US passenger side to remove the spinners or knock ons as they are properly called.
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"But in Alabama the Tusks are loosa" "I shot an elephant in my pyjamas, what he was doing in my pyjamas, I'll never know"
Ar, ar, ar....Jim needs to apologise. jim must read more carefully. Yes, you must.
God, I love having the God-given right to pass judgement upon others!!!!
Rick
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Richard,
lay off the wine!
jim
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quote:
Originally posted by jbottini
lay off the wine!
jim
And just why on God's green earth would I want to do that?
"Noah, Plant a vineyard....."
I am personally keeping a large number of grape-pickers employed. My own little contibution to the economy. I can't solve the Iraqi problem but I can keep several Mexican field workers in Dos Eqquis and Wal-Mart apparel.
What a warm human being............
Rick[:D]
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I'm not getting involved with politics, but I would love a case or two of your Wine ?? Homebrew / Mooonshine.... Woteva Hic, Hic....
Getting back to the point, All spinners / Hub nuts have a direction arrow and must point forward, they therefore tighten as the wheels rotate in a forward direction. (all splines have codes which indicate wether they are to be fitted to the left or right side of the vehicle)
Prior to any long trip or going onto the race track give each spinner a wack with a copper mallet. With the Nuts in Cobras, No , No, I mean with the Big nuts on Cobra Wheels it is best to loosen them, then re-tighten them regularly as they tend to seize and can be a right bugger to get off.
On Ace Wire wheels, The continual tightening can cause weakness in the Thread area, so inspect regularly, for those lucky lads with spinners and Genuine Halibrands lock wire on from one or two ears. Not just to keep them on whilst driving but to stop the blighters nicking them.
Now I must get back to my contribution to employment and wake up Santa !
Best Wishes to All AC enthusiasts for a Merry (hic ) Christmas and a Very Happy, Healthy & Prosperous New Year.........Enjoy !!
Keith
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Guys, your views on the release of wheels spinners is very interting, having just converted my CRS Cobra from 16inch wheels down to 15inch wheels. My car has the Factory three eared spinners and despite carefull cleaning and lubrication of both respective internal and external thread when assembling, I have always had huge difficulties in getting the bloody things undone!!!
You do undo them in the forward direction of the wheel which ever side of the car you are on. My car came as standard with a substantial Snap-On dead blow hammer which I never found good enough, so early on it was replaced with a Hickory handled copper and leather 2lb hammer. This generally worked but took some substantial effort and in the end the hard hickory handle usually caused some severe blisters...no comments please. However after getting only three of the cars spinners undone this time my 2lb just couldn't do it. So I purchased the same manufacture of hammer but the 4lb version, somewhat more sunstantial.
However after giving the spinner what can only be descbided as a dam good thrashing, not only did it refuse to release but actually snapped one of the ears clean off. Now I really was in trouble. Only one course of action which was to rotate the wheel and try on another ear, this time it came free, but had cost me a spinner.
Has anybody out there found a lubricant/grease for the hub and spinner threads which just doesn't dry up after a few miles driving?
A happy Holiday to all AC Owners where ever you may be, Alan Faulkner-Stevens
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Alan ... as you may remember I also broke one ear off my brass 3 wing spinner...in which I had reordered one from you about 3 years back. The trick I found is once you get them removed ..reinstall them with NEVER SIEZE compound. Also a WACK! on all three spinners while rotating the wheel I find is the TRICK.
Oh ..thanks for your help in the past.
Ron Lombardo NY
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I've been told.."never grease/oil the threads...always clean threads on hub and inside knock on with tooth brush and grease remover, dry and put on never or anti or no seize on both surfaces. after install and ssafety wire wipe the exposed end of hub."
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Never tried it on wheels, but the anti-seize compound that I use here in work is "ROCOL J166".
High load, high temp(1100*C)and a pretty coppery colour!
Nik.
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Aloha...here's a 4 inch $35 socket I cut to remove my spinners and I use a reducer tool or a long pipe on my socket bar....works like a charm and doesn't abuse the ears.....just used a grinder to cut the slots out and caulked rubber hose to finish it off....3/4 inch drive socket and I reduced it to 1/2 inch.....Gregg Blue
(http://i11.tinypic.com/3zhqvrm.jpg)
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Greg, Thank you for the advice and picture. I'm off to the parts store tommorrow to order the 4inch socket. I'll follow your blue-print and let you know how I get on, Alan.
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Hello all, first and foremost a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all, it has been great meeting all of you through this forum.
as for the car, I got the battery out my jacking the car and turning the wheel BUT the spinner is really frozen. I will get if off someway, some day, probably using my uncle and his lift with some penetrating oil and maybe some heat...
anyway, at least I can start and run the car !!!
Jan
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Aloha Alan....just mark the width and depth you want the slots to be with a marker pen, then use the grinder to cut down to the depth.....then take a cresent wrench and bend the piece back and forth and it will break at the depth you want..........you will maybe need a small socket extension to clear the wheel wells with your breaker bar.....I just use a long pipe on my socket handle and a 3/4 inch to 1/2 inch reducer if you don't have the 3/4" bar.....all spinners turn towards the front of the car to come off...good luck...Gregg
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I just found a very good 'How to' on the old Kirkham Motorsports website, (cached in Google)below:
Installing Knock-Offs/Spinners/Wingnuts
Since our cars use only one “lug nut” instead of five, you might think this is a simpler method of holding the wheel and tire on the car. While it is simpler in that there is only one part instead of five, there is only one point of failure so we need to use some extra caution when removing and installing knock-offs.
Tools needed:
Knock-off hammer or mallet
Traditionally these have been made of lead. We use a large nylon mallet in the shop. Lead works well but does not last as long as nylon.
Safety wire and pliers
Safety wire is a must when properly installing knock-offs. Use 0.032 wire. A set of safety wire pliers will make the job of installing the safety wire easier. You can buy safety wire and pliers in kits from racing and aircraft supply stores.
Anti-seize
This can be purchased at most automotive parts stores. If you don't use anti-seize, you will experience the following:
Best case: You will ruin the rim and the knock off with galling. It is highly unlikely you will stop at best case.
Worst, and most probable case: You will seize the nut onto the hub and you will experience all sorts of new words in your vocabulary as you CUT THE WHEEL, WING NUT, AND HUB apart to disassemble the whole mess. You will be left with mess on the floor and a big hole in your wallet to fix the mess. You MUST anti-seize the threads AND the face of the knock off where it contacts the wheel face. We even anti-seize the drive pins a little.
Jack
We use a low profile racing type hydraulic jack when we are away from the shop and don't have a lift available.
To remove knock-offs and wheels start with the car on the ground. We leave the car on the ground so that the force from removing the knock offs isn't transfered directly to the bearings. Remove the safety wire from the knock-off. Loosen the knock-offs by hitting them firmly with the hammer. Remember, the knock-offs on the left side (left as if you are sitting in the seats) of the car have right-hand threads; the knock-offs on the right-side of the car have left-hand threads. If you can get a good angle it helps to strike the knock-off on different wings. Once the knock-offs loosens you can then raise the car so that you can remove the wheel and tire.
Installing the wheel, tire and knock-off is basically a reverse of the removal, but it also requires some finesse. Start by applying a thin layer of anti-seize to the drive pins and threads on the hub. Place the wheel and tire on the hub by lining the wheel up with the drive pins and sliding it in place. Apply a thin coating of anti-seize to the threads on the knock-off and the area where the knock-off seats on the wheel. Start the knock-off onto the threads. Remember left-hand threads on the right, right-hand threads on the left. Tighten the knock-off until it starts to touch the wheel. Grab opposite edges of the tire and wiggle it side to side and up and down to ensure that it is seated on the hub and that the drive pins are engaged properly. Tighten the knock-off. Repeat until the knock-off is as tight as you can get by hand. You can give the knock-off a wack with the hammer to ensure that it is seated. Now you can lower the car to the ground and finish tightening the knock-off. To tighten the knock-off, strike the wing with the hammer. You should be able to feel the knock-off turn each time you strike it. When it is seated tightly the hammer will bounce back differently because the knock-off has stopped turning. It takes a little practice but eventually you will get a feel for this. Give it a few more wacks to ensure that it isn't moving anymore. You should not have to use “gorilla” force to tighten the knock-off. The drive pins transfer the force from acceleration and braking to the wheel, the knock-off holds the wheel against the hub.
Now it is time for the safety wire. There should be a hole in one wing of the knock-off. Run the safety wire from this hole to a spoke on your wheel. The wire should be installed in a direction so that it is holding the knock-off tight. This wire does not hold the knock-off in place but it is used to show that the knock-off has not come loose. Please bend ALL safety wire ends over to show you care and to prevent safety wire sized holes in your hands. Besides showing that you care, it looks cool. Never drive a car without the safety wire in place on all wheels. Checking the safety wire on each wheel should always be on your pre-flight checklist. Remove your wheels to clean your hubs and knock-offs and re-apply anti-seize once a year to prevent corrosion (more often if you live in a damp or salty ocean climate)
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As variante of safety wire solution (initially, central nuts was provided for a quick change) I have selected the "Aston Martin solution" (I see it for the first time on a racing Aston Martin car). As a picture is better than ten thousand words (I multipy by ten due to my poor English language), I show my own pin hub. There is made with a 3 mm music wire and I have to confess that several tests was done before to obtain an acceptable result
(http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7333/epingledemoyeuef4.jpg)
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I have always used copperslip to make sure the spinner doesn't seize, which has worked just fine. Although the advice on hammers etc is I am sure right (I too found the Snap-on dead blow hammer totally useless), these things do need a heavy whack to get them off, and there is real danger of hitting the body or wheel in the process. I was taught to use a 3 foot piece of steel pipe like scaffolding pipe to transfer the load. If you do that, then a heavy hammer (I found 5 lb to be enough) would do the job safely, away from body and wheel. I always thought carrying a spare tyre was a bit pointless becasue I cannot imagine how I would ever get the thing off by the side of the road!
Keith
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Correct,
The "dead-blow" hammers do not give enough force to loosen the nut. Can't beat the old lead hammer for this. gives the grunt and "bounces-back" less than others.
Rick
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Funny,
I still have not been able to remove, they are REALLY frozen, I did get the battery out by jacking the car, turning the wheel and carefully removing. The spinner fiasco will continue in the spring.
If anyone is ever passing through CT and wants to have a scotch and try to remove them, please, let me know !!
Jan
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Jan where in Ct if it stops raining I may take a trip ..I have to warn you ...I bent one spinner and contacted ALAN for a replacement. DO you have a lead hammer...
Ron
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Jan, I'll be up your way in acouple of weeks...PM ne with phone or some way to sort out place/time. i'll bring finishline tool if you have a proper lead hammer
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Guys,
thanks for the response, I PM'd Jim, Ron if you want to come up at meet Jim and I, we can bend the spinners together (I hope not). I have the finish line tool and a Thor spinner hammer, I can't find a strong enough steel bar to use with the finish line tool, believe it or not, I bent a steel pry bar already !! (a 5 footer).
Jan
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you've some real frozen spinners...are they all like that?
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My 2 fronts were frozen on pretty good when I bought the car ...as I may have said before .. you need to wack all three wings while rotating the tire and it comes loose .. my bent spinner was when I first got the car ...I had consulted with the local Ferrari guy and he gave me a few tips. Just make sure they get put back with neversieze.
Ron
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I only tried the front 2 and they are FROZEN !
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OK, are the original tires on the car? & how many miles?
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Sorry if I am saying something you already know. When I first did this I assumed they would hold, and then suddenly let go and then be easier. I found that they were REALLY hard for the first whole turn of the spinner, and each whack only moved them a tiny amount. Are you sure they are't moving at all?
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May be I will look like a joker but I dislike to use a hammer or a brass mallet to install or to remove a wingnut. I use my own special tool! It is a piece of iron pipe that one end had been flattened (see picture). If you have steel forged wingnuts on your wheels, you can apply a large torque and if the car is moving (despite the hand brake), ask to your wife to push the pedal brake to jam it. When I install a wheel, I put a nut of grease on the aluminum faces that are in contact with iron (both sides) to limit electrolytique reactions that appears between two different metals, to prevent any corrosion.
(http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4048/specialpipe9wk.jpg)
(http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/6079/removecentralnut8my.jpg)
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Hello, I have just completed a spinner tool with a friend. I have an Elan, however our tool has been designed to work with larger spinners as well. I would be pleased to meet up (I live 3 miles from M25 J10) to see if our tool is compatible with your wheels. Beer would be provided!
The links below demonstrate its operation.
Cheers,
Ian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdKL9iYITss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHxof3v-rPg
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Interesting tool, and I like the use of Youtube to demonstrate. Wasn't so impressed with the fact that the Elan's wheels seem to be on the wrong way round though! The action of driving the car will tend to loosen them, rather than (as in an AC) tighten them!
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wow, i would love to see if that solves my problem, very cool idea
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Ace 4.6,
In Elan circles everyone else's wheels are on the wrong way round! It is something to do with the hub design which I once understood for about 4 seconds. They tighten up nicely though belive me!
Thanks for your interest.
Ian
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian surrey
Hello, I have just completed a spinner tool with a friend. I have an Elan, however our tool has been designed to work with larger spinners as well. I would be pleased to meet up (I live 3 miles from M25 J10) to see if our tool is compatible with your wheels. Beer would be provided!
The links below demonstrate its operation.
Cheers,
Ian
Hi Ian,
I'm in Cobham (J10 - M25) where are you? I have a MkIV with brass spinners. Your invention looks interesting, please let me know if you want to check out your spinner removal tool on a three eared spinner. Is it in production yet and how much is it ?
Cheers - John.
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John. Looks brilliant! If it works on yours can you please sign me up for one as well?
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Hi Peter,
Yes no problem I'll let you know how it goes. I guess it will either work or I'll need some new spinners [:)]
Cheers - John.
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What a well thought out piece of kit! Hope it works on Cobs..... I reckon it would sell pretty well.
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FYI, update on the spinner removal tool. I met with Ian at the weekend and tried his invention on my MKIV. It was not a good enough fit on the spinner so Ian took some measurements and is going to modify his design and we will try again in a few weeks. It looked to be a solid well thought out bit of kit and once it is changed to fit on a Cobra spinner I think it will be a popular solution. Ian gave me a demo on his Elan and it looked really straight forward and simple. Does anyone know what the torque setting should be ? I've been told anywhere from 220 to 400 lbs. Will let you know when we make more progress. - John.
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John. Thanks for the update. Sounds promising and should pay for itself in taking away the need to reburbish the wheels after the battering they take when the copper mallet misses the spinninr and hits the rim. Not sure what the torque setting is. At the moment I just keep bashing away until I either drop from exhaustion or there is no more movement.
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Gregg, that is a brilliant tool, and like all brilliant tools it has a high "why didn't I think of that?" factor. I've seen beautiful machined aluminum sockets over here in Japan designed to accomplish the same job but at seven times the price.
Thanks for posting that!
Rob
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Hi...that looks better than a tool I obtained from Finish Line...Keep all posted...even with "anti seize" the problem never goes away entirely. jim
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I still have not removed my wheels, so I would buy one !
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Japanalysist.....the tool works great for any 3-eared spinner..... I sent one to ALAN FAULKNER-STEVENS and hope to hear from him soon......Gregg
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You may remember "Ian Surrey" posted on this topic in early February and I met with him to test his new spinner tool on my MkIV. The tool did not fit well because "our" spinners are more dished than most other cars, so Ian took measurements and went off to modify the tool. FYI he intends to bring his latest version to the club AGM at the Barley Mow on 22nd April. So if you plan on attending the AGM he would appreciate the opportunity to try the tool on a few of our cars.
Thanks - John.
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Here is the right tool for spinners / central nuts:
Found this past week at Germany's largest historic motor show, Techno-Classica at Essen.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w34/MkIVLux/Spinnertoolc.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w34/MkIVLux/Spinnertoolb.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w34/MkIVLux/Spinnertoola.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w34/MkIVLux/Spinnertool.jpg)
Sold by Oldtimer-Tools in D-31199 Diekholzen (mk@oldtimertools.de www.oldtimertools.com)
High quality tool works with any wrench, and is suitable for deep bedded rims.
They have various models suitable for 2 or 3 eared spinners, respectively central nuts.
For AC Cobras / GT40 and thelike, two sizes are available: somewhat narrower dents for the lighter aluminium spinners, somewhat deeper dents for the large brass spinners. They do not yet have a tool for the AC hexagonal central nut.
Priced at 250 € (inclusive VAT) plus P&P.
Regards
Constant
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Hi Constant,
That looks really good, did you buy one ?
John.
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Hi John,
Yes indeed. I was so convinced when I saw it. I will also buy the tool for the MG spinner & octogonal nut.
Regards
Constant
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Yes thats the one for me.
I presume the CHA 3 is the correct tool for a MK IV with Halibrand wheels.
I have asked them for a quote to send these items to the UK.
1. CHA 3
2. Large ratchet with ¾ " drive in 500 mm length
3. Extension for more leverage - total ratchet length 700 mm
4. Duffelbag with anti-corrosive lining for tools (not the ratchet)
5. Duffelbag with anti-corrosive lining for large ratchet
Hope I can get delivery before blasting down to SW France for the summer.