AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: gblue on November 17, 2006, 02:26:45
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what is a pristine 4200 mile ed/black 1987 AC Autocraft worth??
Mahalo from Maui Hawaii
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I own AK1131 a 1986 model. I bought the car in February and paid $65,000. The car had 637 original miles. The engine is a carb 302. It was removed,seriously modified and installed by the original owner. No hood scoop, no roll bar and two out the left rear exhaust. White with a blue stripe. I have seen them range from $40,000.00 $73,000.00 in the past 10 months. I got a very nice car worth the money.
Karl Sauer the registrar for MKIV with SCCA lives in Hawaii. His email is Cobra4guy@aol.com
Good luck,
Fred Mix
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Is the car in Hawaii?
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yes it's on maui.......asking $65k
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Is the car fuel injected or carburetor? Is the car original?
Karl Sauer is the registrar with SAAC not SCCA. Sorry, I got my clubs mixed up.
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car is bone factory stock...carburated with the 302.....no scoop or roll bar....has top and windows ...looks new.....send me your e-mail and I'll send you fotos......
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send me a set to jamesbottini877@msn.com. Thanks, jim
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I like the no hood scoop / no roll bar look. Nice departure from most of the kit cars. Stock is good.
My email is fmyachtshhi@aol.com
Thank you,
Fred
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Fred, an AK is not a kit. Jim
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Jbo,
I think that's what he meant, thats what separates the AK's from the "kits" is the steet car look as opposed to the thousands of "SCs" running around.
But I could be wrong, according to my wife I always am!
Rick
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"she who must be obeyed" is always right...mine is!!! if I misinterpreted the comment I appologise. jim
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Damn,
I thought that "She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed" was my wife!
Or have we all married the same woman?
One wonders.
Mark-Anthony
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MArk-Anthony,
I married Mrs. "Right"...........I just didn't know her first name was "Always"!!!!!!
Rick
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Could it be they all had the same training class or could it be a mutated gene deal?
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I have it now...they went to different schools together!!
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I use to have AK02 with a 351 Windsor, I did not like the car, it had no power and was heavy. I think I paid $39K for it about 3 years ago. I wanted to convert it to a real Cobra MKIII but the car is too different, the body would have had to come off, the dash, the rear suspension and the list goes on, so I sold it and bought a Kirkham with a proper 427 side-oiler motor! I defy anybody to tell the difference with the original Cobra MKIII. I think the problem with the AKs' and to some extend with the new kirkhams is that they try to improve the car and as a result ruin it. A proper Cobra is a basic car, no radio, no heat, light weight, powerfull and very fast! The MKIV has none of these attributes!
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Aloha..I personally like the fact that I can step on the gas and not get into too much trouble like in an overpowered car......I've had stupid fast cars and it's nice to just be able to enjoy the ride.....there's no end to how fast a car you can own......no reason to attack the car that others love just because you have a need for speed.....does that mean a real 289 Shelby Cobra is also not a good car in your eyes?
Different strokes for different folks.....live and let live.....
gregg
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
... I think the problem with the AKs' and to some extend with the new kirkhams is that they try to improve the car and as a result ruin it. ...The MKIV has none of these attributes!
What you have to bear in mind is that the MkIV was built for the times. Not only having to meet more stringent design & build regulations, but compete with 'modern' supercars in the marketplace, where the potential customer was more refined in his requirements.
It was never intended to 'replicate' the original Cobra, but to continue the species.
The Kirkhams are driven by market forces also. If the customer didn`t want the improvements that they make, their stock-in-trade would be 'stock' original, nut-&-bolt identical vehicles as their first models were, rather than the billet CNC equipped(etc, etc)cars that fly out of their doors now.
Of course, if you want a leafsprung 289, you can have one, but at a premium.
Hybrid FiA with Le Mans hardtop for me, please!!![:D]
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This is quite right. When I bought AK1515 I remember Brian Angliss describing the intention with the MkIV Lightweights as being to make a car that drives the way that people recall MkIII's driving. He said then that when people actually drive a MkIII, they get a rude shock! That was in 1994
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The leafsprung 289 is one sweet car to drive, light, agile and fast! I had one, and to this day I regret selling it!
Emmanuel
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Emmanueld
Funny you should say you once owned AK02 as it's currently for sale in europe: www.florentmoulin.com
It is described as a 427S/C (why?) and has 8000 miles on the clock.
As it happens, Hawk Cars can now convert any MkIV to full MkIII spec if required. Maybe best to do the job after you've pulled your pride and joy out of a ditch and get the insurance company to pay the bill? Probably no more expensive than rebuilding it as a MkIV
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I checked the website, it's no longer there! The problem here in California is the smog test, the car was registered as a 1984 and it had anti pollution equipment, a 2 bbl carburator and 2 catalytic converters, I don't think it made more than 140 HP. I tried to re-register it as a 1965 Cobra under our kit-car rule but they refused on the ground that AC is not a kit-car maker! Also the body is completely different, the doors are longer, inside the engine bay it's all fiberglass, the gear box on mine was a T5, it could never be used on any other engine, the rear suspension attachment are different. I saw one of these being rebuilt as a mark III over here in Torrance, it had been totaled and only the registration was used and the rest was from Kirkham! Anyway, Regards
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Emmanueld - So a proper Cobra is a basic car, no radio, no heat, light weight, powerful and very fast! I was unaware until reading your comment that my MkIV had none of these attributes. An interesting opinion to post on the MkIV forum. Out of curiosity, perhaps you could tell me, is the Kirkham Owners website an exact copy of the ACOC website or is it just the cars that they copy so well ?
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Uh Oh......
Rick
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OK Rick,
Point taken. I'll play nice in future - John.[;)]
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Cobham,
I've no problem...I was alerting the masses that a battle was about to begin and to get your stout and pies ready to enjoy!
Rick
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(http://www.manchester.gov.uk/licensing/images/263.jpg)
READY!!!!
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Hi Nick,
Having just started my post-Christmas diet this is a very unfair photo to post.
So tell me, just how like Mallorca is Anglesey ? Very impressed with you getting 39 PH as a 21st Birthday present BTW.
Cheers - John.
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Emmanuald is entitled to his opinion...no matter how far from correct it may be. After all...free speech and all that!
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Nik
Stop photographing your lunch - back to work!! (Unless you're lying on the miles of golden sands of your fair isle, working on that perma-tan of yours....)
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quote:
Originally posted by cobham cobra
Hi Nick,
Having just started my post-Christmas diet this is a very unfair photo to post.
Deepest apologies....me too![:(]
quote:
So tell me, just how like Mallorca is Anglesey ?
Erm. It`s an island. And 3/4 of the locals speak fairly good english! That`s about it really! [:D][:I]
quote:
Very impressed with you getting 39 PH as a 21st Birthday present BTW.
Cheers - John.
Yes. So was I! Just what I always wanted. Even if it only lasted for a day! I had NO idea that my Mum & (then) wife had arranged it all, and Nigel Hulme was SO generous with his time & attention, taking Mum & myself out for longdrives, the first time Mum had actually been driven in it, and allowing me to actually drive it around his property! Totally Amazing. I can still remember every minute....16 years later!!! [8D][8D][8D]
Well, I`d better get back to the permatan work....
Glad you`re not my Boss, Trevor![:p]
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Jim, you said "Emmanuald is entitled to his opinion...no matter how far from correct it may be. After all...free speech and all that!"
I completely agree and have no problem with that. Anybody that loves cars is fine with me especially when they have a preference for Cobras and AC's. I also have no problem with the replica industry, if it wasn't them I would never be able to source the Cobra/ AC/ Shelby parts and accessories. However, ever since I first saw Cobras racing in the late 60's early 70' I have wanted to own one. My MkIV is the realisation of that dream. To read a contribution on this forum that dismisses the entire MkIV model range in a single sentence was something I wanted to respond to.............so I did. Most of the club members that I know, drive either a MkIV, Superblower, CRS, 289 MkIII or Ace, the moderns have between 240 and 360 bhp and none of them could be described as slow. I appreciate that we are fortunate to have a friendly atmosphere in the ACOC and am happy to drop the topic, sit quietly in the corner and grumble to myself as I drink my beer and eat my pie.
I notice Emmanuald has posted a photo elsewhere on this forum of his 428 and his car looks fantastic. With regard to Kirkhams, most people will agree that they are better built than the Cobras that came out of Thames Ditton.
Now whose round is it ?
Cheers - John.
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Cobham cobra,
I agree with you 100% especially as an ex CSX 427 owner. My AK may not be as fast, but it certainly is as enjoyable, maybe more so, to drive albiet for different reasons. Emmanueld is entitled to his extremely misplaced opinions...but that is all they are..opinions. I've had the good fortune to drive 289's, 427's 427 S/C's, ride in a real GT40,deive the Ford GT, Brooklands Ace, Brooklands Aceca and Superblowers as well as enjoy my AK. All great cars for different reasons. The AK's were a continuation and in many respects, except stock raw horse power, an improvementover a 427 street car, but yet are not all that different except in raw hp. One can argue the asthetics of the few boby changes, the widening of the f & r track, the dash boards etc. But the basis concept of the car is intact...slightly updated and in many respects better. Those knowlkedgeable realize the MKIV line is a continuation/evolution of a 427 appreciate them for what they are.. a modern Cobra. Emmanueld's Frua is no more than a 427 frame with a 428 and a new body..beautiful, rare and unappreciated by most. It too is a evolution of a 427 Cobra. Kirkhams are great cars, probably better than original AC's not better in quality vs the MKIV and Superblower. In short I agree, Emmanuald's opinions are his own ..why he chose to post them on an AK MK IV web site, leaves me woundering if we should chip in for an MRI. Jim AK1113
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I am not saying that the MKIV is a bad car! (Although mine was) This why I unloaded it as soon as I could. It was also a very early one, It was supposed to have been one of the two cars (with AK01) used by Ford to federalize the MKIV. Please look at photos and try to put your bias aside, I am just saying this is a pale replica of the original the MKIII 289! As you say, it is my opinion! Maybe later models are better!
I guess the interior was much improved later on, even the body shape was wrong on that one! I took this pictures shortly after I bought the car, we were trying to make it run right!
By the way, before I forget! who cares if it's an Autocraft, Kirkham or even a Shelby! they are all replicas! [:D] I saw and drove one of those new Shelby's made in South Africa I presume, it was an aluminum car and the workmanship was dismal to say the least. What counts is the quality and how close to the original the design is. Over here in the states, A well built aluminum Shelby or Kirkham will sell well in excess of 100 grands, Twice as much as a MKIV!
PS, I enjoy animated conversation! [:D]
Emmanuel
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q271/Emmanueld_2007/AK02/119-1927_IMG.jpg)
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q271/Emmanueld_2007/AK02/119-1936_IMG.jpg)
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q271/Emmanueld_2007/AK02/119-1932_IMG.jpg)
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if I may put in my 2 cents .... all I can say is the " original " cobra's were raw .. not fit to drive on the street. The question is were the Originals ever really fully developed. So which car is really the Best Cobra. The Kits, MKIV, or the new Shelby's ... if you asked me on a sunday afternoon when I go to start up ak1234 and the battery is dead from sitting .. I have to say you'll here echoing of short burst some thing like Piece of %^&$ !! But to me as a 7 year old riding on the back deck of a GT350R, Pantera's and a 427 Cobra of my Dad's those cars were raw ... I would take my MKIV over one of those old chuck wagons any day. Not insult intended.
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
...I saw and drove one of those new Shelby's made in South Africa I presume, it was an aluminum car and the workmanship was dismal to say the least....
Can you elaborate on this? What`s bad; body/chassis, interior fit/finish etc? I didn`t think they made Ali cars in S.A for Shelby.
quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
...PS, I enjoy animated conversation![:D]
Emmanuel
So do we! (as long as everyone plays nice!)[8D]
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If the car was aluminium, it was not built in South Africa. Exactly where the body was made is another issue, but the car was finished in Las Vegas.
Amusing how the difference between the (genuine!) AC Cobra and the MkIV splits people into two camps. When it comes to driving them, you either love one or the other but rarely both. Apart from neanderthals like me who'll drive anything with a V8...
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Originally posted by Emmanueld
I saw and drove one of those new Shelby's made in South Africa I presume, it was an aluminum car and the workmanship was dismal to say the least. [:D]
If the workmanship was "dismal" it was NOT from South Africa![:0] Anyone who has seen what Hi-Tech builds (Superformance, Noble, GT40, Speedway Motors 32 Ford, etc.) knows that neither the old AC nor Shelby ever dreamed of quality and finish such as they provide.
And as Trevor mentioned Hi-Tech does not provide alloy bodys to Shelby (although they HAVE built aluminum bodies, both for Cobras and the AC Brooklands Ace/Aceca range)
Rick[:)]
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The Mark IV was not ment to be a 289. Your comparison here is only good to the proximaty to the 289's CID. The body and frame is clearly that of a 427, 4" tube etc. Animated conversations are fine, but get the facts right. Your car may not have been the best example Emmanual, but after many years of "toys" , not all are perfect; even when they leave the factory. While goood conversation is always welcome, arguing or dispariging for its' own sake is a waste. Have a nice day.
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By the way, when I referred to the AC 289, I did not mean the MKII Cobra, I referred to the AC289 (COB cars) which were build by AC on a 427 chassis in the late 60's , narrow fenders, small block motor and not sold in the US. The Shelby I am talking about was an unpainted aluminum continuation car, panel fit was horrible, the gap between doors, hood was uneven, the amount of work required to paint it and make it look good would be high! The way the gas tank was mounted in the rear was horrible! I am trying to be as unbiased as possible, I have had many cars of all sort and I can tell nice workmanship when I see it. Actually, later Autocrafts are well built, with good panel fit, nice interior, they are just not a real Cobra for me, too civilized!
Emmanuel
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Originally posted by cobham cobra
Originally posted by Emmanueld
Emmanueld quote "By the way, before I forget! who cares if it's an Autocraft, Kirkham or even a Shelby! they are all replicas! [:D]"
Hi Emmanueld,
If I owned a replica I could understand your view, but I own an AK MkIV and I don't consider it to be a replica. As we all know Autokraft and Ford acquired AC and Brian A subsequently bought out Ford. So the MkIV was built by a company that either was licensed by AC or owned part of or all of AC. I view the model as a late twentieth century continuation or evolution of a 60's icon. To me the Kirkham successfully attempts to build a point perfect recreation of the 60's original, but it has no connection or lineage with AC cars. In the UK the Kirkham is (a little) cheaper that an average MkIV while I think a good MkIV or Lightweight traded in the UK last year at between $110K and $140k.
I love classic cars and my cars historical connections have value to me. I live in Surrey, 3 miles from Brooklands where my car was built and about 12 miles from Thames Ditton. I am lucky to be surrounded by AC craftsmen, some of the people that work on my car have been involved with AC for 20 or 30 years. My car was built within the grounds of the historic Brooklands race track, the first purpose build race track in the world http://www.brooklands.org.uk/intro.htm or http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/unitedkingdom/mpc/mpc_unitedkingdom_website/en/home_mpc/MB_World_Brooklands.html (click on "why brooklands" worth a look)[8)].
I may be a little "over the top" in my view and I guess if I lived near a MIG factory in Poland I would see things differently [;)].
John.
Grabs coat and leaves.......Check please [:D]
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John, I guess I have a different viewpoint, I buy a car to drive it and I don't care where it comes from to a point. You Have similar views as the Shelby people over here who say that even COB cars are not real Cobras because they did not pass through Shelby's hands. The facts are that MKIV don't have very good resale value in the US and that even COB cars retail for much less than original Shelbys'. You can put my Kirkham next to an original 427 and I defy anybody to tell which one is the real one and which one is the reproduction (Minus the Serial Number ofcourse). Even the instruments are originals not copies, and the motor is a proper 427 side oiler. The cost of my car is 10% of the cost of an original, A proper 427SC will sell for a million bucks over here now and I get the same sensation when I drive it! If I wreck it I won't cry as much and I have all the parts to repair it! I also have a Frua and all the Kirkham chassis parts bolt on perfectly.
Emmanuel
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Emmanueld, if you are now done trashing the line of this venerable company and obviously don't like them..why not move to clubcobra? Over and out
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Arent we all car enthusiasts ?? with the same car ... thrashing of which car is closer to the original, is crazy .. I think the MKIV was marketed towards the person who wanted to drive a cobra in everyday and not have to overheat in traffic and a 427 Kirkham is marketed towards the person who cant afford the original.
There is a similiar arugument on the Pantera site .. where they state its a cheap mans ferrari ?? The Pantera group is an excelent bunch of people.
I can say, I dont get the whole purpose of thrashing one car or the other. I have have my likes and dislikes of every version of the Cobra kit replica and .. yes the Original. Each version of this car is marketed towards a different customer.
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
John, I guess I have a different viewpoint, I buy a car to drive it and I don't care where it comes from to a point. You Have similar views as the Shelby people over here who say that even COB cars are not real Cobras because they did not pass through Shelby's hands. The facts are that MKIV don't have very good resale value in the US and that even COB cars retail for much less than original Shelbys'. You can put my Kirkham next to an original 427 and I defy anybody to tell which one is the real one and which one is the reproduction (Minus the Serial Number ofcourse). Even the instruments are originals not copies, and the motor is a proper 427 side oiler. The cost of my car is 10% of the cost of an original, A proper 427SC will sell for a million bucks over here now and I get the same sensation when I drive it! If I wreck it I won't cry as much and I have all the parts to repair it! I also have a Frua and all the Kirkham chassis parts bolt on perfectly.
Emmanuel
Hi Emmanuel,
I think that your opinion about a MKIV is a logical consequence from your viewpoint about the usage of a cobra. You want to drive it and it should behave like a "original", i.e. a Shelby cobra.
I started my cobra hobby with the sentence "it should look like a cobra, performance is not so important". Well, after some years of recreation of a kit-car my opinion is different. Now, I think performance is still not so important as long as you have enough, but what is much more important to me is history. Is there a "story" associated with my car which I can tell everybody who ask me "what kind of car is this".
Today, I would drive a Triumph TR6 if I don't have the money for a MKIV before I would spend my money on a kit-car. I know that views are different, especially in europe and USA. I am always astonished about the low prices of MKIV in USA. As someone said before the are much higher here in europe. I believe the reason for that is that in USA most of the people who are interested in cobras distinguish cobras in two classes: cobras made by Shelby and the rest. In europe also this distinction is made but in the way: cobras made by AC and the rest. Well, this is course quite generalised but I think it points in the right direction. Please correct me if I am totally wrong (and apologize my bad english, I would like to say that I am still learning but the truth is that I am much better in programming than in foreign language)
Regards, Peter
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THe wretched CSX/Shelby/Original discussion will haunt the Cobra to its grave and that it a tragedy - it takes place on both sides of the Atlantic by well-meaning enthusiasts, who, deliberately or otherwise, do far more harm than good. Too often, money is at the root of the problem, maybe a little jealousy as well.
I think the fact that the long-term SAAC Cobra Registrar Ned Scudder sold his Shelby 427S/C and purchased an AC289 Sports from the UK (and is more than happy!) speaks volumes.
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Hi Trevor,
Nicely put, pleased you've stepped in to bat. I think I have explained the reasons for my veiw and pretty much said my piece, to repeat it would now bore everyone. I like to think I'm a well-meaning enthusiast, who, (has not) deliberately or otherwise, done far more harm than good
Good luck - John.
Hang on a minute chaps, how about we start a separate forum for all those that like or own or have owned a MkIV, Superblower or CRS ??[;)]
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quote:
Originally posted by cobham cobra
Hang on a minute chaps, how about we start a separate forum for all those that like or own or have owned a MkIV, Superblower or CRS ??[;)]
I'll second that John [:D]
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Yeah, we could call it the "MK IV, CRS and Superblower forum"!!!!! Oh, wait.......we did!
Rick
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Hi Peter,
You said: "Today, I would drive a Triumph TR6 if I don't have the money for a MKIV before I would spend my money on a kit-car. I know that views are different, especially in europe and USA. I am always astonished about the low prices of MKIV in USA."
Well, I think you should have, You would be driving a car which is a quarter the price, about the same performance, from a real car manufacturer (not a replica). you see my point I hope. The truth is, the Kirkham is not a Kit-car, it is sold as a rolling chassis because of US legislation. Cobras' were imported the same way in the 60's to bypass DOT rules.
Most reputable Cobra restorer shops in the US use Kirkham body panels and parts to restore originals because they are so good. Also why does the mark IV sells at good Kit-car prices in the US? It is because it is not a Cobra Just a car that pretends to be. The light weight could qualify as a Cobra, but it can't be registered here for the reasons stated above! I also would like to add that Kirkham now sells Hot-Rods based on the Coil Spring Chassis which further demonstrate how good the design was. They also manufacture complete MKII leafspring chassis and bodies! So owners of real ACs' you now where to go for parts!
To ak1234: "all I can say is the " original " cobra's were raw .. not fit to drive on the street" You obviously have never driven an original Cobra, Even a MKI or MKII is a much better handling car than the Autocraft. Weight has a lot to do with it!
Emmanuel
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A politician once said "when you're in a hole stop digging"..........bored now.
Have a good weekend - John.
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Anyway to end this, If anybody is looking for a particular engine part or else, I would be happy to help!
Emmanuel
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Emmanueld .. very simple .. you dont know me .. I was 5 when I rode in all of the above, race SS FE Comets so I know a little about FE's, drove all of the above and basically have nothing to prove, but speak from experience .. theres only 2 Originals one SHELBY AC COBRA and AC AUTOCRAFT COBRA. The rest are replicas. Thats ok because at SVRA if you raced a KIRKHAM would be a "REPLICA" at NYDMV a KIRKHAM would be a KITCAR. Sorry but the quality of a Cobra doesnt make it an ORIGINAL Cobra. It makes it a good REPLICA.
Last to be so kind ... if you paid the same as a MKIV for your paint job ... drop your car off in NY and I WILL PERSONALLY paint it for 1/2.
In closing whats your POINT ??
Ron
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top of head
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
By the Way, The paint of my Kirkham cost me nearly as much as I paid for the MKIV pictured above![:D]
was the cost of the p***s extension included or excluded?
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quote:
Originally posted by ak1234
Emmanueld .. very simple .. you dont know me .. I was 5 when I rode in all of the above, race SS FE Comets so I know a little about FE's, drove all of the above and basically have nothing to prove, but speak from experience .. theres only 2 Originals one SHELBY AC COBRA and AC AUTOCRAFT COBRA. The rest are replicas. .
In closing whats your POINT ??
Ron
Ron, my point: Dream Dream! The only real Cobras are the CSX2000 and 3000 series, all the others are replicas, the AKs' are not even Cobras, they are too far from the original! I am not saying they are bad cars, but because they had to meet DOT and emission regulations, they have become fat and the original spirit of the car has been lost. But if you like it, fine with me, enjoy and dream you are in Cobra land. Anyway, the price of these cars speak for itself! I think we should change conversation, it starting to look like a Pantera thread![:D]
Emmanuel
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Your right we all have the right to have difference of opinions. One thing we dont agree on is this is far from a Pantera thread ... sorry. That your dead wrong about. No arguements there.
Ron
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as I said before price and quality dont make it an AC. You cant change one thing the serial # of an AC.
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quote:
The only real Cobras are the CSX2000 and 3000 series, all the others are replicas, the AKs' are not even Cobras, they are too far from the original!
Not true. What about the 'COB' and 'COX' cars manufactured by AC for the British and export (excluding US) markets in the 1960s. Are you telling me an AC 289 Sports is not a real Cobra?
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Chafford,
I think these are real Cobras' but according to the Shelby American Automobile Club they are not, here is a quote from SAAC' website:
Quote:
"The definition we use to identify an original Cobra is one which was, 1) built between 1961 and 1968, 2) at the direction of and under contract from Carroll Shelby/Shelby American Inc., and 3) sold by Shelby American or one of its franchised dealers. The only difference between original Cobras and CSX4000 and CSX7000 cars is the time frame in which they were built (1). However, all three factors separate Shelby’s current cars from all the rest of the Cobra replicas, AC MK IVs, COB/COX continuation cars, etc. So, to our way of thinking, the current crop of Cobras are genuine but are not original."
As I said before, to me if the car was manufactured by AC under it's original mgmt it's a Cobra so MKI, II and III qualify, COB and COX cars included. If the car was not manufactured by the original AC company or has been altered, it's a replica or a look alike. A kit-car to me is a vehicle which has been built using a different chassis, components from other cars such as suspensions from MGB or Mustang II but loosely resemble the real thing! I think this is a no brainer.
PS. I think the new Shelby continuation car should be labeled as replicas as well since they were not built by the original AC company, and I have argued that in the past with them!
It is a question of money, Shelby American tries to sell it's cars as real Cobra to maximise their potential buyer appeal. Even the fiberglass cars qualify.
You know, arguing over this is rather silly, let's just enjoy the cars and have fun!
Emmanuel
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Emmanuel, you are tough to figure out, MKIV's ARE genuine Cobra's, (but NOT ORIGINAL), I think we can all agree on that, no matter what you think, you are flat out wrong regarding the MKIV, MKIV's were made by AC, under Ford's blessing, in the UK, and in most cases with Aluminum bodies by very skilled English craftsman. Just because there were some political and legal forces at work with Mr. Shelby in the 80's and his involvement with "another" of the big three, and the political motives behind SAAC, most people agree AC's are genuine, they are even kept track of by SAAC. Anyway, I love my car and you are entitled to your opinion but honestly, some of the things you have said, should maybe not be published on an AC automobile forum.
Regards,
Jan
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quote:
Originally posted by Jan_AC_MKIV_1227
Emmanuel, you are tough to figure out, MKIV's ARE genuine Cobra's, (but NOT ORIGINAL), .......
Anyway, I love my car and you are entitled to your opinion but honestly, some of the things you have said, should maybe not be published on an AC automobile forum.
Jan, What about freedom of expression, here or anywhere else, this is my belief, and I think it is the most logical. I am sure you love your car and so you should.
However, a Cobra the MKIV is not, it was buit by a different company, Autocraft, eventually B. Angliss was able to purchase or use the AC name in the 80s' but not the Cobra name. In addition, the car is so different from the original car, that even a replica it is not. The definition of replica is something which look exactly like the original!
Emmanuel
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Fine, this discussion will be closed by me and you can post whatever you want, be it courteous or not, but MKIV's are not replicas, they are original AC's that Brian built under the AC name, BTW, in Europe the cars were legally allowed to use the Cobra badge, you may need some more study regarding the history of AC and why certain things were done the way they were. For the last time, I am not saying the MKIV is "original" or a replica BUT A GENUINE AC, just like your car.
Regards,
Jan
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Hi Emanueld,
my opinion is: people like USA cars want to buy Schelby's Cobras.
People like Englisch cars want to buy AC Cobras.
Two diverse worlds.
Others people buy Original's Replicas.
Next from China?
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I hear the Pantera group calling "Emmanueld..Emmanueld...please xxx'x come home!!!
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I hear they're saying "isn't it quiet without Emmanueld ?"[;)]
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:)
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I think Braco sums it up well.
Having followed this discussion and similar ones on the Club Cobra site it just confirms to me that there are huge differences in the attitudes to automobiles on each side of the Atlantic.
The US has traditionally believed that quantity is a key ingredient of quality. Hence why Cadillacs and Lincolns were considered "luxury" cars while having a level of quality and handling that was embarrassingly bad. There are relatively few challenging roads in the US and the speeds people are allowed to travel at are ridiculously low. Hence the dragster like ability of an over engined 427 Shelby Cobra is in it's element there.
Over here we apreciate and understand quality workmanship and have roads that can bring out the best in a well balanced chassis. As a result the MkIV which has very high build quality and better weight distribution is more appreciated in Europe.
When discussing the build of my Cobra (which outside of the US it can legally be called due to the agreement with AC and Ford, who own the name) with the AC factory I contemplated having them build a 427 MK3 (replica? recreation?) but was strongly advised against it due to it's lack of suitability for UK driving conditions. Equally if I ever move to the US again I will certainly leave my car here and buy a Shelby or Kirkham over there.
As always it's horses for courses.
This also explains why US manufacturers have had a tragic record when trying to sell their domestic products in Europe and equally why Ford's attempts to sell European cars in the US (Mercur and Contour for example) have also been dismal failures.
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quote:
Originally posted by SB7019
The US has traditionally believed that quantity is a key ingredient of quality. Hence why Cadillacs and Lincolns were considered "luxury" cars while having a level of quality and handling that was embarrassingly bad.
I agree with you that the philosophy of building cars in the United Sates and in Europe has always been different.
I also agree that the handling capabilities of European built cars have often been superior. US roads are much larger with far less turns, so there is less need for a car with good handling.
As far as quality however, up to the early seventies American cars were far superior in quality and reliability to their European counterparts with maybe the exception of Mercedes Benz, in corrosion resistance, engine and drive-train quality, and even construction.
American cars could go 150,000 miles without a major rebuilt with their big under-stressed V8 engines. They also were equipped with power steering, automatic transmission, air conditioning and various electric devices which were virtually unheard of in Europe.
For the price of a loaded Mustang or Camaro in the US, the European customer could buy maybe a Peugeot 404 or a Ford Taunus, hardly in the same league.
The problems came in the seventies with the birth of anti-pollution devices which were crude and inefficient and with the 1973 oil crisis which forced Detroit to build smaller cars. They did not know how and these cars were horrible! It happened in Europe too, remember British Leyland! This is why England has no more automobile industry.
In the last few years however, the quality of US built cars has been improving steadily and they are getting closer to their European counterparts who themselves now have to play catch up with Japanese autos for quality and reliability!
My 2 cents![:D]
Emmanuel
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Oh boy now we have two of them .. cant we get back on task .... PRICES GENTLEMEN ..that was the topic.
SO7019 ...thanks for your opinion. Keep in mind the over priced Rolls Royce that drives like a Mack Truck, and the Boston Tea Party ... LOL we aint going to pay 45% tax out of our salaries and drive 4 cylinders.
Tell me why is the MKV 68,000 pounds in UK = 128,000 aprox US ?? I bought my MKIV in the US for 1/3.
Ron
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quote:
Originally posted by SB7019
There are relatively few challenging roads in the US and the speeds people are allowed to travel at are ridiculously low. Hence the dragster like ability of an over engined 427 Shelby Cobra is in it's element there.
Please come to California Washington State or Colorado, there are plenty of challenging roads. Also we don't have radars everywhere like in Europe. Also what does over engined mean? How could Jo Schlesser win the Targa Florio in 1965 in a 427 Cobra? The 427 was unbeatable at the time, too bad Shelby was not able to get it homologated for the 1965 season. Also, if you think the front is too heavy just get an aluminum 427 FE block from Shelby or Genesis.
quote:
Originally posted by SB7019
Over here we apreciate and understand quality workmanship and have roads that can bring out the best in a well balanced chassis. As a result the MkIV which has very high build quality and better weight distribution is more appreciated in Europe.
Because over here we are just a bunch of red neck and we don't have roads that can bring out the best in a well balanced chassis! Why is that that over 1/2 the production of exotics cars in the world ends up in the US.
Another 2 cents!
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This is fun!
Emmanuel I agree that quality improvements have been steadily made on US cars in terms of reliability and TGW's. However the workmanship - especially on interiors, is still way behind European and Japanese standards. In the meantime the quality of all vehicles worldwide has also been improving (though Mercedes and more recently Toyota have had some upsets). As a result the relative quality gap is still high and, for this and other reasons, imports of US cars to Europe and Asia are infinitessimal. The interesting thing is that England is now building record numbers of cars (and exports many of them to the US) though none of the mass manufacturers are domestically owned. A similar prospect is possible for the US unless Mulally, Wagoner and La Sorda (or whoever replaces him?) drive the progress we are all hoping for.
AK1234. The point I was trying to make is that the price differences are to some extent a result of the differing market needs and expectations. I agree that the Rolls Royce (BMW?) is overpriced, particularly in relation to the Bentley (VW?), but that does not seem to hold back the fact that more are sold in the US than in any other market. Maybe it's because you like to drive trucks for domestic use so much? BTW the highest marginal rate of income tax rate in the UK is 40% and yet when I worked in the US I paid over 50% (including state taxes) plus a much higher level of social security. I did however have the benefit of having 12 cylinder cars while there - but strangely enough they were built in Europe.
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SO7019 ..exactly my point we in the USA appreciate High Quality and not just quantity .. as per the Rolls Bentley you build them we enjoy them .. both of which are driven by a Chaufer and riden by the owner. Like the Cadilac and Lincoln prior to 1973 were high quality and like all four large cars, to afford them money was no worry. The Cadillac and Lincoln were a pleasure to drive and ride.
Never heard of such a fact 50% tax on income .. 33% max and if you are in the upper tax bracket .. your putting more thru your business and paying less tax ... ( with out opening up another can of worms .. BUSH"S TAX PLAN ) LOL
Europe is NOT the only place that produces and appreciates high quality products. For example how many MKIV's are in Euro and how many in USA. We both appreciate the same car in 2 " huge different " world's.
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Emmanuel
I agree there are some nice roads in California, Colorado and Washington State. Thats why I said "relatively few" as less than 1/6th of the population live in these states. If there are no radars in the US how come most people drive at the (55 -65 mph) speed limits?
How could Jo Schlesser win the 1965 Targa Florio in a 427 Cobra when no Cobras were even entered in the race?! The best result was 8th in 1964 by a 289. There was a 427 entered in the 1966 race but it only completed one lap. It is well known that the 427 did not have any track success in any major races as it was totally outclassed by the mid engined cars that emerged around this time. The only truly successful racing Cobras were all 289's - especially the Daytonas.
Why do 1/2 the worlds exotics end up in the US? Because, as Willy Sutton replied when asked why he robbed banks "that's where the money is".
ak1234
I last worked in the US in the mid 90's when the marginal federal rate was 39.6% and state taxes were over 10%. The highest federal rate is now 35% with some state taxes close to 10% with California at 10.3%. The highest rate in the UK has been 40% for over 10 years. Suggest we close this subject or find a forum for tax lovers rather than car lovers - if such a thing exists.
The last time I drove a Lincoln in Europe was a MkIV (no not a Cobra!) in 1973. It was a huge laugh but totally unsuited to the roads around here. Ford sold 6 of them in the UK that year.
If the quality of the pre 1973 Lincolns and Cadillacs was so high can I assume that around 60% of them are still on the road, as is the case with Bentleys and Rolls Royces? Using the same measure of course proves that the Cobra is an incredibly high quality car as I suspect that over 100% of the cars originally built are still on the road!
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So can I assume it's a quiet(wet)day in Essex today then Peter ?[:)]
Cheers - John
PS: I blame you for encouraging the continuation of this thread [;)]
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John.
You can indeed! Blame accepted - but sometimes you can't resist. Do you fancy a beer sometime?
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I never thought I would see this debate on the AC owners's forum.
Is it the car or the man? For the car to be a Cobra, it must be an AC. The new CS continuation series do not have a pedigree only a name. They are kits as all the others are. CS's series 1000 was an AC but few if any have been built. I tried to buy one. No one could produce. Anything else is a copy. Please keep in mind that CS did not build the cars but installed the engines and transmissions, marketed and support a race team with Ford's money.
If it is the man, we all should be driving Lancers.
On this forum, I do not think an AC basher is intitled to an opinion.
I know what I have. ACOC & SAAC know what I have. The Real Thing!
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Thank you, thank you, thank you. Very well said.
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AK1131
I'm not disagreeing with any of the above - but are you planning to attend the next SAAC convention, stand before the assembled multitude at the Saturday night dinner and repeat that out loud..?? (Please check your escape route first.) And before you ask - yes I have.....
But if you are still in the market for a 100% genuine AC Cobra-shaped vehicle that echoes the 427S/C but was made by AC has full AC documentation, let me know as I have one (they do exist)
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quote:
Originally posted by Trevor Legate
....if you are still in the market for a 100% genuine AC Cobra-shaped vehicle that echoes the 427S/C but was made by AC has full AC documentation, let me know as I have one (they do exist)
Woohoo! We (nearly) return to thread topic related discussion! A genuine AC (can we call it a)Cobra for sale?!
Im` sure we`d all like to see a pic or 2.
Please.
Just wondering... if Ford Europe, after making the MkI & MkII Escorts at Halewood in Merseyside had decided to create a new manufacturing entity, Ford UK, to produce the next generation of cars at Dagenham, would they have not been allowed to call it the Ford Escort MkIII, being a different name in a different location?
Autokraft was AC in the 80`s & 90`s.... the MkIV was neither an original, nor a replica, and their values illustrate this, by being significantly less than a `61-`68 Cobra(COX/COB included!), but notably higher than 'all of the rest'.
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Dear Trevor,
Thank you for Cobra First 40 Years. The book is excellent.
When I was a teenager a wanted a Cobra. Not a Mustang Cobra but an AC Cobra. For some, it takes longer to achieve their dreams. I thank Mr. CS for making my dream.
I would like to attend an SAAC convention as a spectator, not an announcer. Afterall, I am a car guy. What I see in SAAC is the fortunate few that have a vintage Cobra or Mustang. Mr. CS did make this all possible but again he is great at marketing and the car is less important. Remember a Shelby Lancer was a CSX but not a Cobra.
Best regards,
AK1131
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quote:
Originally posted by SB7019
Emmanuel
How could Jo Schlesser win the 1965 Targa Florio in a 427 Cobra when no Cobras were even entered in the race?! The best result was 8th in 1964 by a 289. There was a 427 entered in the 1966 race but it only completed one lap. It is well known that the 427 did not have any track success in any major races as it was totally outclassed by the mid engined cars that emerged around this time. The only truly successful racing Cobras were all 289's - especially the Daytonas.
Actually you are right my mistake, I checked and Jo Schlesser indeed ran a 427 but it was a MKII (GT40) and arrived 4th I think! Sorry, my mistake. all these years I thought it was a Cobra.
quote:
Originally posted by SB7019
The last time I drove a Lincoln in Europe was a MkIV (no not a Cobra!) in 1973. It was a huge laugh but totally unsuited to the roads around here. Ford sold 6 of them in the UK that year.
If the quality of the pre 1973 Lincolns and Cadillacs was so high can I assume that around 60% of them are still on the road, as is the case with Bentleys and Rolls Royces? Using the same measure of course proves that the Cobra is an incredibly high quality car as I suspect that over 100% of the cars originally built are still on the road!
You are comparing apples and oranges, Cadillacs and Lincoln were huge cars, not well suited for european roads and 70s' model were not great. However, I grew up in France in the 60s' and they were quite a few US cars on the road. Mustangs, Camaros and even Cadillacs.
I don't know how many RR of that era are still on the roads but my guess would be that most have been junked with the exception of special interest cars (special bodied) and convertibles. Also there is the famous "Master of Darkness" syndrome, Lucas which is famous all over the world. US Cars actually start and seldom catch on fire by themselves!
As far as AC Cobras are concerned I beg to differ on the build quality, They are nice cars but were never built to last. The Cobras are so light that if your driving is spirited the suspensions will need regular servicing and the body will develop stress cracks, also they are not always straight and alignment can be difficult. The Frua is prone to corrosion. Etc.
Emmanuel
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Emmanuel.
I think we are in danger of agreeing with each other. Lincolns and Cadillacs are indeed huge cars not suited to European roads. I originally referred to them as an example of how the requirements of the two continents are so different. This is in turn reflected in the relative values of replica 427's version versus MkIVs on the two sides of the Atlantic.
I also agree on the build quality of the original Cobras and was trying to make a light hearted reference to the air cars etc that exist.
In order to ensure that we can't agree on everything there is an often quoted fact that around 60% of all Rolls Royces ever built are still on the road. I am not sure if the same proportion applies to the Silver Shadow but would be surprised if it is much different. I would be absolutely amazed if the proportion were not many times greater than that of Lincolns and Cadillacs of the same era.
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Ok here goes:
there were up to 2002 10 million cadilac's alone produced, as of that date they hit their 100 year aniversary, they state that the average cadillac travelled aprox 57,000 miles in its life time, thats 57,000,000,000 miles racked up by Cadillac alone. that 57 TRILLION miles. I will bet that Rolls Royce what ever their production figures are and it has to be not even a million cars...they dont even travel 1000 miles on the average per year. Not saying RR is not a good car. But just how good of quality do we need in SUCH AN IMPERFECT WORLD.
So the moral to the story ... they had to be doing something right for 10 million people to buy them ... remember my first statement .. Americans are not all the native indians that live here. matter of fact the indians are all gone. A good percentage of Cadillac owners are Europeons ... so clearify for me do they appreciate quality or not ??? LOL SO I ask again how good of quality do we need in SUCH AN IMPERFECT WORLD.
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One very simple answer to your question of the price of Cobra's on each side of the Atlantic. In the US I observed this fact ... there are at least 3 cobra's at every cruise night, at least 3 at every car show, are they MKIV's, originals, replica's, home builts, someones mom built them ..I dont know but one thing I'm sure of .. there are so many that its dosent make a MKIV stand out. The prices are the same on any Cobra in the USA other then a Shelby Cobra Original in the USA. They are all between 50 and 100 k.
My OPINION.
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Out here in Southern California, a professionally built Kirkham, by the likes of Mike McCluskey will sell upward of a 100K! Around 120K. Fiberglass cars between 20K and 40K. MKIV between 50K and 70K. The main problem with the MKIV over here is the fact that one has to deal with Smog laws. The car does not qualify for SB100 exemption. SB100 was a proposition passed by the California legislature (it was sponsored by a politician who built Hot Rods) which allows 500 specialty constructed cars per year to be registered according to their look or the year of manufacture of the engine. So if your car looks like a 1965 car, it is a 1965 car, thus smog exempt. With a MKIV, you are stuck with an underpowered engine (Specially the early carburated version), catalytic converters, ETC. The magic year is 1975! Any car 1975 and older does not have to be smoged, big +.
Emmanuel
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AK 1234
It seems that we are also in agreement as you are clearly saying (twice) "just how good of quality do we need in SUCH AN IMPERFECT WORLD". That may be good enough for you but BMW, Mercedes, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar, Lexus and many others appear to be setting their sights a little higher. I think the pointing out the fact that Cadillac have produced over 10 million vehicles and Rolls Royce have produced far fewer (less than 100 thousand in fact) does rather amplify the argument about quality versus quantity. BTW 57,000 multiplied by 10million is 570billion which is 570,000,000,000 not 57,000,000,000, which in turn is 57billion not 57trillion.
Having said all that I think I am now going to follow John's (Cobham Cobra) implied advice and back out of this discussion. You are doing such a convincing impression of George W Bush that I'm starting to worry that I might be upsetting someone who is very important. Hope that clearifies the final position of a Europeon!
PS If the American Native Indians are "all gone" who is it that is leasing out their land to the casino operators?
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Emmanuel.
Thank you - I think you have provided a good factual reason for the price differences. We are fortunate over here to not have the same restrictions (though we have plenty of others). As a result Mk1V cars of 350 + horsepower are quite common and at that level the performance is more than sufficient to provide an exhillarating drive. The Lightweights have 345 hp the Superblowers 320 or 350 (depending on which brochure you read) and many of the standard Mk1V's have been uprated by their owners.
It is also fair to say that most of the replicas in Europe are obviously kit cars, unlike most of those in the US (especially Kirkhams and Shelbys) that tend to be more faithfull in looks to the 60's cars. As a result a MkIV will usually stand out from the crowd and be appreciated as a real AC. Replicas tend to sell here in a range from $25,000 to $50,000 whereas Mk1V's are currently being offered at prices that start at over $100,000.
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Emmanueld .. so I ask a second time whats you point .. we talking about smog laws having to do with prices ??? All I can say is my MKIV is a fine car , maybe the one you bought was the lemon of the litter. Heres one for you maybe the rest of us want a drivable MKIV to enjoy and not a loud, leg burning, overheating, rocket that you cant go on a sunday drive for 120k. Not everyone is a would be race car driver. Some just enjoy the shear agility and driveablity of a MKIV.
SB7019 .. you win .. in your world the largest super power in the world mass produces junk. and in your world only European Cars are high quality.
First I dont support Bush .. but if it wasnt for the USA .. you would be speaking german and your kids Arabic.
What I say to you is this conversation is over for me.
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Emmanueld, how many times do you get slapped in a bar on a given friday nite?
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Obviously not offten enough .. LOL
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The oppressive smog laws are not nationwide. For example, a 20 year old car in Pennsylvania can be registered as a "Classic" which requires an annual safety inspection, but no emissions inspection, not even a visual (to see if factory installed emissions devices such as catalytic converters are present). My 1985 Autokraft is registered as a classic. I have no cats, an all aluminum (block, heads, manifold, sump) Roush 351 and certainly have plenty of power. In Pennsylvania, only "real" cars can be registered as classics, to the exclusion of all kit cars, including the Kirkham and component Shelby Cobras. On January 1, 2007, the regulations for kit car registration changed dramatically here and it will be much more difficult to have a kit registered. We'll see if it has any impact on the price of the kit cars. I also understand that it can be difficult to obtain one of the SB100 exemptions in California, as many people are vying for the few that are available each year. I have been told that the SB100 certificate can add 25 to 30% to the price of a kit car. I can't vouch for this figure because I haven't tried to buy a kit car in california, with or without SB100 cert. But, if the percentage is accurate, then the $100,000 Kirkham would only be worth $70 to $75 thousand without SB100. A completed Kirkham sold for around $55,000 on ebay within the last 4 or 5 months. I for one could never understand why someone would spend $120,000 on a kit car when they can have a real car for alot less. I feel that in the long run the Autokraft cars will hold their value better than a kit car. I guess we'll see in a few years. Just my two cents worth.
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
Out here in Southern California, a professionally built Kirkham, by the likes of Mike McCluskey will sell upward of a 100K! Around 120K. ...Emmanuel
I`m pretty certain that McCluskey don`t build Kirkhams.
They build McCluskeys from scratch, or restore original Cobras(including 3 of the original Daytonas!)
or build Daytonas onto original roadster chassis`,
(or allegedly 'lost' 60`s Thames Ditton Chassis` into complete cars...but that was a long time ago, and C.S said they weren`t lost'n'found, later, didn`t he?!)
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Maybe the whole root cause of this thread is that Emmanuel lives in California !! Although my MKIV came from Cali., the original owner still modified it with a Roush 302 (I have the original motor crated with only 500 miles on it), I'm putting out well over 325 hp and now in CT, the car is registered and through emissions, so just because you did not have the resources or ambition to juice up your MKIV, it is not the car's fault, but that of government regulation, but every problem has a solution.
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
I`m pretty certain that McCluskey don`t build Kirkhams.
They build McCluskeys from scratch, or restore original Cobras(including 3 of the original Daytonas!)
or build Daytonas onto original roadster chassis`,
(or allegedly 'lost' 60`s Thames Ditton Chassis` into complete cars...but that was a long time ago, and C.S said they weren`t lost'n'found, later, didn`t he?!)
For the Daytonas you are right! However, they do for 427s' and 289s' ! It does not make any sense to build one from scratch anymore, and who do you think painted my car? [:D]
Emmanuel
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quote:
Originally posted by Jan_AC_MKIV_1227
Maybe the whole root cause of this thread is that Emmanuel lives in California !! Although my MKIV came from Cali., the original owner still modified it with a Roush 302 (I have the original motor crated with only 500 miles on it), I'm putting out well over 325 hp and now in CT, the car is registered and through emissions, so just because you did not have the resources or ambition to juice up your MKIV, it is not the car's fault, but that of government regulation, but every problem has a solution.
You are right, In California we need to change the law. However, what one could do right now is put a modern engine from let's say a Mustang Shelby! But all the smog gear and the transmission has to come with it! Also the paperwork involved is huge!
Emmanuel
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Are we nearly there yet ?
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
...For the Daytonas you are right! However, they do for 427s' and 289s' ! It does not make any sense to build one from scratch anymore, and who do you think painted my car? [:D]
Emmanuel
Thanks, Emmanuel, I stand corrected. [:)]
So is your car McCluskey Blue? WOW, what a colour that is!
John...yes. I think so.[:D]
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
...For the Daytonas you are right! However, they do for 427s' and 289s' ! It does not make any sense to build one from scratch anymore, and who do you think painted my car? [:D]
Emmanuel
Thanks, Emmanuel, I stand corrected. [:)]
So is your car McCluskey Blue? WOW, what a colour that is!
John...yes. I think so.[:D]
Sorry, it's black with old English white stripes!
Emmanuel
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Interesting the different point of views as to what is a real "Cobra". If you go to Google and type in Shelby Autokraft, the first thing that pops up is "Shelby American World Registry-AutoKraft MK IV Cobra". SAAC said Cobra and Autokraft in the same sentence, they said Cobra, they said Cobra! There for it must be!!!
Now for those across the pond and in the states talking about your beer, you might want to try the other Cobra, that is Cobra malt liquor. It the one with the snake on the label not the bull. OhOh hope I don't start a beer war!
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I'm dying to know who paited the car for the reputed 30K...the suspense!!!!
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quote:
Originally posted by jbottini
I'm dying to know who paited the car for the reputed 30K...the suspense!!!!
I just said it! above!
Emmanuel
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quote:
Originally posted by AK1131
...you might want to try the other Cobra, that is Cobra malt liquor. It the one with the snake on the label not the bull. OhOh hope I don't start a beer war!
(http://www.sniffpetrol.com/starscars16.jpg)
Photo courtesy of SniffPetrol (http://"http://www.sniffpetrol.com")
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quote:
Originally posted by jbottini
I'm dying to know who paited the car for the reputed 30K...the suspense!!!!
To be fair, it was more than paint, the car had to be stripped completely, small dings were removed from various spots on the aluminum, The correct material was used on the dash and the panels behind the seats, doors, Etc.. It took months, the car has to sit in primer for a while so as to prevent it from cracking later on, etc. The process is the same as doing an original car. The side pipes were refinished. The result is AWSOME! well worth it to me!
Emmanuel
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
...To be fair, it was more than paint...The result is AWSOME! well worth it to me!
Emmanuel
And that`s what matters.[8D]
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And I'll drink to that.......but maybe not Cobra :-(
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Back to cahapter two of a marvelous tombe' "Cobra, the first 40 years"