Messages

46

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / Re: Historic photos of AC's!

« on: November 25, 2022, 09:21:57 »

This special-bodied racecar is on display at the Louwman Museum in the Netherlands. It was built by an Englishman, Gordon Rossiter, who used his 21st birthday present (= money) on converting a 1924 AC six-cylinder into this racecar. In 1937 he competed in a number of hill climbs and raced at Donington Park and was clocked at 105mph. It was still racing in the 1960’s when purchased by the museum.

Vehicle not produced, as such, by the factory. The original chassis used not known, engine number F2MB3093 (sometimes recorded as simply 3093).

47

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / Re: Historic photos of AC's!

« on: November 24, 2022, 12:13:43 »

This is Chassis Number 13335. A very interesting car historically. It was exported to Australia in 1926 for use as a demonstrator. It was supplied new with aluminium cylinder head, high compression pistons and three carburettors (but it is not however an S F Edge Special as recorded in the Vintage Register - this car being a high-performance 2/3 seater). The photo shows the owner at the time, Cameron Millar, I believe.

This AC would have been a flyer in its day, a ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’, with a top speed in excess of 75 mph and, dependent on axle ratio, possibly more than 80 mph.

The car came back to the UK, was registered as SV 4587, and was sold by Bonhams in England December 1996 (again the model type was described incorrectly). Since then, it went to ground for many years, the DVLA showing it had not been taxed, nor recorded for historic exemption, between 2000-2018 but, there is good news in that it is now taxed for the road so hopefully we shall see this very interesting car soon.

48

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / Re: Close Coupled fixed head Coupes

« on: November 14, 2022, 13:34:22 »

Looks very different now it's been restored (for sale at https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1483075):

49

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / Re: 1925 AC Six for sale (restoration required)

« on: October 04, 2022, 08:30:25 »

Attached a copy of the patent submission, showing the 'quarterlight' panel that ACOCArch refers to above:

50

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / Re: 1925 AC Six for sale (restoration required)

« on: October 03, 2022, 14:27:38 »

Ace, a 16/60, with an Aero body (from 1935 Sales Brochure):

51

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / Re: 1925 AC Six for sale (restoration required)

« on: September 29, 2022, 18:48:52 »

The taxable horsepower system was discontinued by the British government on 1 January 1947. To refer to an AC Aceca or Ace as 16HP is thus prewar. The two car models are from different decades - 1920's and 1930's - and used the same basic 2-litre engine, rated at 16HP (though improved over those years). As I wrote above, in earlier posting, 'the Aceca was first introduced in 1925 and the Ace first introduced in 1933'.  

52

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / Re: 1925 AC Six for sale (restoration required)

« on: September 28, 2022, 12:55:21 »

To expand on the above:

The UK used an RAC rating formula (formula below) for taxation purposes (known as taxable horsepower). It was originally calculated in inches. Here’s the formula using the AC 2-litre engine; take the bore size (65mm, thus 2.56’’), this then squared (2.56 x 2.56 = 6.55), then multiplied by the number of cylinders (6.55 x 6 = 39.3), then divided by 2.5 (39.3 ÷ 2.5 = 15.7 taxable HP).

UK taxable HP =  D²N/2.5    where D = bore, N = number of cylinders.

To take one model of AC the 16/56 was thus 16 taxable horsepower (to nearest round number) with 56 horsepower produced by the engine. As the stroke was not in the calculation it was natural to design long-stroke engines thus high power output with low tax. So, the AC engine had a 100 mm stroke.

This was the UK system, but there were different formulae in other European countries. In Germany, for example, there was PS based on overall engine displacement. The Mercedes ‘S’ of the late 1920’s was the 26/120/180 model, the last two figures showing without/with the blower (supercharger) engaged.

53

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / Re: 1925 AC Six for sale (restoration required)

« on: September 27, 2022, 11:55:02 »

I have a question. What is the difference between Ace, Aceca, Magma, Aero versions?

Hi Andrey

The first two (Ace and Aceca) were models – the Aceca was first introduced in 1925 and the Ace first introduced in 1933. Later in the early 1950’s these model terms, with the A and C beginning letters, were brought out of hibernation and re-used for new model introductions - the Ace being the well-known two-seater sport car, with soft top, and the Aceca being the closed version (a closed coupe) with a fastback design. The name Ace was then used again for another model in 1993, the Ace Brooklands.

The Magna (note spelling on your posting) was a name used for a new range of models in 1928 - design and engineering was moving at pace and these models had the most modern changes for the time e.g. coil ignition, semi-elliptic springs, even hydraulic brakes as the company neared voluntary liquidation.

The Aero name was used as a design concept by many companies in the 1930’s, not just AC, and is taken from ‘aero-dynamic’ or streamlined (yet some were far from that, being bulky cars). The name Aero was characterised by a roof line that then sloped down to the end of the car, no protrusion of boot lids/spare wheels and so on.  In 1934 Riley advertised their Kestrel model having an 'Aero-Line' design. Additionally, in the pre-war years there were many names used for body types, each having a distinct meaning. Examples being tourer, coupe, torpedo, sedanca, roadster and so on. Aero is yet another.

54

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / Re: 1925 AC Six for sale (restoration required)

« on: September 26, 2022, 18:46:35 »

Hi Colin

Early cars had gravity-feed to the carb, from a scuttle-mounted tank. Later cars had an AutoVac, a vacuum system, off the inlet manifold, that drew fuel from a rear tank. I thought, at first, you had some form of vacuum fuel supply (the tank on the offside bulkhead) or it was a secondary tank (from the scuttle tank). With a scuttle tank, which you clearly have (= filler on dashboard), then the fuel would be gravity fed. The black tank I assume is for the wipers - a vacuum wiper system was not supplied originally, nor is the windscreen-mounted control correct. You'll see the wipers would not work anyway, as the arm is too long and the blade would be overlapping both the upper and lower panes of glass. The bulkhead equipment and electrics will need completely sorting (e.g. the dynamo wiring is poor). Another observation is that the dashboard is lacking a clock, these were supplied certainly from 1924, so the current wooden dash may have been replaced in the past. The horn, mentioned earlier, would have had a button on a steering wheel spoke (i.e. not the centre).

All the above may appear that I'm being negative, but they are minor really -  the car would be a very good, and relatively straightforward restoration project. Of course, we don't know about the engine, that's the unknown at the  moment....

55

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / Re: 1925 AC Six for sale (restoration required)

« on: September 26, 2022, 12:57:36 »

....the car has not been partially stripped for restoration.....

Colin , I wrote this as the water pump, cut-out, ammeter panel switches, horn and the front badges are missing (plus the fuel supply is non-original). Are these parts in the garage somewhere, as it's advertised as being complete? The number plate is covered up - I'm assuming it still carries its original registration (or has this been sold)? I note it's an early car (=1925) so does not have front wheel brakes. It's not an Acedes by the way, that came later, it's an Aceca.

Serial number?

11996

I do have someone who is going to bid for the car.....

56

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / 1925 AC Six for sale (restoration required)

« on: September 25, 2022, 12:43:26 »

I remember this car from 35 years ago! It was owned by a lady named Freda Palmer. It is just the same now, with original colour scheme (Green with red pinstripe) and original seating. It disappeared for some years, looks like some stripping started for restoration though it is said that all parts are there. This was a lovely car and was portrayed on the back cover of the Profile Publications booklet on the AC Six. It looks a relatively easy restoration, to return it to former glory.

It's on Ebay. I don't know the reserve:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374268407817?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20211130125621%26meid%3Db928346200434b8f9434ffdbfcc2ae26%26pid%3D101465%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D275471211656%26itm%3D374268407817%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D3817808&_trksid=p3817808.c101465.m3507

57

ACOC News and Events / Re: AC & Monte Carlo Rally Classique - More Photos!

« on: September 06, 2022, 12:15:27 »

That doesn't look like an AC....

58

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / New book on S F Edge

« on: August 26, 2022, 11:00:34 »

Some time back I advised that a book was underway.

More details now available, with publication this month:

https://www.evropublishing.com/collections/all-books/products/s-f-edge-maker-of-motoring-history

59

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / Re: Close Coupled fixed head Coupes

« on: July 13, 2022, 18:12:20 »

There were twelve of these fixed-head coupes shown in the AC sales ledgers for 1933 and a further two for 1934. It is believed only two now survive, and the other car was in a sorry state (but restorable) when exported to France a few years back. Actually, it is incorrect to say the body type is the same as the Hurlock Monte Carlo car (1933/1934). The car was APC 94 - it had a similar body but with cycle-wings, no running boards, different rear wings and lacked the faux irons. The car for auction has doorsills, the RAC car did not, thus doors and bulkhead were different also.

William Hurlock took APC 94 into the RAC rally and got 4th place in 1933. The car was used by The Motor in 1934 who published a road-test report. The racing driver Enid Riddell entered the car for the Monte Carlo Rally. It's unclear who loaned her the car or if she bought it. They finished, but were 52nd out of some 160 entries. There was not a 'Hurlock Monte Carlo car 1933/1934' but the entry was in the 'newish' Hurlock era and, as said, the same car from the RAC driven by Hurlock.....semantics, I know!

L69 (AXO 270) is the car now coming to auction. It is a 16/66. I believe the RAC/Monte Carlo car was a 16/80. Comparison of bodies are shown below and a photo of L38 (APC 94) from The Motor 1934:

PostScript - further photo added, of the other survivor, sold in 2016 for about £21,000

   

60

Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum / Re: A Six in the Monte

« on: June 14, 2022, 11:30:24 »

Re. the registration plate RO 3856 - the registration letters RO were allocated to Hertfordshire and the four number issue was from April 1925 to March 1928. This likely eliminates earlier than mid-1925 for the car. The car does look so pristine in the photo titled 'AC Montlhery 1926' that I lean to it being photographed when new. I have found an advert from AC, from late 1925, where chassis description says 'steel disc wheels complete with balloon or high-pressure cord tyres' i.e. optional. Admittedly, the tyres did puzzle me, especially for sport and competition use.

Coming full circle then, pulling together all the above reasons in the postings, I think it is a 1926 AC Montlhery with a special body.  Maybe obvious now, but who chose the body and who chose the tyres....well, that's another detective story.