Mk I 428 body restoration/ New Mk II 428 ?

[Classicus]

As always I'm definitely no expert but thinking back to Derek Hurlock and his early attempts to find a UK body supplier for the 428 before deciding on Frua, he apparently had also been considering one or two other suppliers as well such as Coventry Body Panels, or some closely similar name. In the end it was unfortunately low quality rust prone Italian steel which will I presume always pose a long term restoration problem ? Especially now that all 428's are some 30 to 40 years old and obviously are not going to last for ever.
   
   Looking ahead and in the interests of their long term preservation coupled with originality, I'm wondering what future options owners might consider and go for regarding a possible replacement body when their old one becomes just too difficult or expensive to keep restoring any more ? Go for top quality steel or aluminium or.... ? Then perhaps approaching AC themselves (wherever they're based now) to make them ?
   
   Be interesting to hear any owner's thoughts and views on this.
   
   Thanks []
   
   Cass

[Emmanueld]

I don't see a possibility of making a replacement body for a car that was made in such low numbers, repairing the current one is the only option. If that is not possible because the car is too far gone, then the Cobra body make the most sense! Emmanuel

[Classicus]

Why not a factory Mark II 428 ? Then there'd be plenty of modern and improved bodies to go round for everyone especially those who can't find or afford a Mark I ? Plus no need to wantonly destroy yet another original and valuable 428 either !

[runt]

Now THAT is an interesting thought; and there would be a market, going down the single vehicle route as opposed to 'volume' production might likely be the way forward..?
   As Cass says, keen to hear the views of the more seasoned AC people on this one.
   
   Paul/runt.[]

[nikbj68]

It`s hard enough finding a bodyshell for anything more exotic than an MGB, isn`t it? What about someone splashing a mould off one and making fibreglass bodies, or taking the old steel ones away, stripping to bare metal, repairing & then galvanising, before paint?
   Like Manybox says, in situ repair is the only viable option for most levels of resto work.

[Classicus]

When I win the Lottery and if there was the option, I'd be really torn between a restored Mk I fastback and a new aluminium bodied Mk II one ! Obviously the modern Mk II wouldn't have the rust and heating problems, have all the very latest modern gadgets and so on but there's just something about owning the original of anything. Like a clean First Edition book by one's favourite author with an excellent unmarked dust jacket. Priceless ! []
   
   It makes me wonder what Derek would do in this situation too, I'm sure he would have at least thought about a Mk II version. And whilst I know next to nothing about Cobras isn't there a parallel here as well ? Original 60's cars and brand new ones - Mk 1's up to Mk 4's.... ?
   
   Cass []

[cmaddox3]

quote:Originally posted by Classicus
   
As always I'm definitely no expert but thinking back to Derek Hurlock and his early attempts to find a UK body supplier for the 428 before deciding on Frua, he apparently had also been considering one or two other suppliers as well such as Coventry Body Panels, or some closely similar name. In the end it was unfortunately low quality rust prone Italian steel which will I presume always pose a long term restoration problem ? Especially now that all 428's are some 30 to 40 years old and obviously are not going to last for ever.
   
   Looking ahead and in the interests of their long term preservation coupled with originality, I'm wondering what future options owners might consider and go for regarding a possible replacement body when their old one becomes just too difficult or expensive to keep restoring any more ? Go for top quality steel or aluminium or.... ? Then perhaps approaching AC themselves (wherever they're based now) to make them ?
   
   Be interesting to hear any owner's thoughts and views on this.
   
   Thanks []
   
   Cass
   

   
   In terms of bodies which might be adaptable, the two that most immediately come to mind [ at least for the fastback ] are the Superperformance's Brock Daytona Coupe:
   
   and the AC Mamba:
   
   Which have the benefit of at least being in the right ballpark for the mechanicals.
   
   But I haven't put too much thought about it beyond that.
   
   --  Chuck

[nikbj68]

Dontcha just love that Mamba sketch....nice to give us the choice between the angled 'Porsche' style nearest headlight versus the 'traditional' upright light on the far side! Is it mocking us, sticking it`s tongue out in "Nyah nyah" fashion?
   To the best of my knowledge, there was only 1 Mamba built, and I don`t think it was actually completed....was it? Pity, `coz it is quite a nice shape, whilst admittedly being an easy design to have achieved, a Coupé back end stuck onto a CRS front. []

[Classicus]

As this for me is all very new and exciting technical territory, and personally speaking I shall always be totally hooked on Frua's beautiful original and unbeatable design,  I wonder how much it would roughly cost to build a one-off aluminium, externally still the same but modernised underneath, prototype copy of the Mk 1 Fastback and Convertible ?
   
   Using presumably the same method of construction to finally produce one finished to the same high standards as this example below, as I can clearly see the new Mk II 428's delicious silver aluminium body in my mind now.
   
   
   
   So nice to dream isn't it, yet hopefully someone from the factory might read this thread soon and start to get interested in the whole principle of a second new luxury 428 as well, as I gather similar concept top market luxury styles are a really solid niche market these days.
   
   For example if prestigious Bugatti can do it, though apologies but this one's not my cuppa at all....
   
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bugatti_Veyron.JPG
   
   ....then I'm quite sure prestigious AC, who I think have also been around for about the same length of time and already have the marketing benefit of the fully race tested Cobra chassis, can in my opinion do a much better job with a far more street practical, economical and every day ultra cool nostalgic Retro car by contrast. [8D] [8D] It just has to sell like hot cakes ! []
   
   Please ?
   

[nikbj68]

quote:Originally posted by Classicus
   ...then I'm quite sure prestigious AC, who I think have also been around for about the same length of time and already have the marketing benefit of the fully race tested Cobra chassis, can in my opinion do a much better job with a far more street practical, economical and every day ultra cool nostalgic Retro car by contrast. [8D] [8D] It just has to sell like hot cakes ! []
   Please ?
   
   

   Agreed, a great idea, but I believe that a project like that would be significantly beyond the factory`s current capabilities. Interesting that your clearly "MkIII" Cobra body pic is titled "Aluminium Ace Body", Do you know where/who made that?

[administrator]

The ACOC has in stock quite a few original Frua body sections which are available if parts of a body shell really need replacing.  They are listed on the Acedes Spares stock list on that page in the Members' Section of the website.
   
   From what I have seen of Fruas in the past, it is the bottom 12 - 18" that rots badly, and although it's a big job it can be satisfactorily repaired, especially as the body is not structural.  It's no worse than the 'Pagoda' Mercedes which are now suffering from near-terminal front bulkhead rot.  The bulkhead corrodes from the inside out and by the time the unfortunate owner realises, his car is near to falling in half.

[Classicus]

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   

   Agreed, a great idea, but I believe that a project like that would be significantly beyond the factory`s current capabilities. Interesting that your clearly "MkIII" Cobra body pic is titled "Aluminium Ace Body", Do you know where/who made that?

   Plenty of market research would be needed before any major or minor financial decisions or commitments could be made naturally, but how about the much less expensive single vehicle route that Paul/ runt suggested to begin with ? Based on up-front firm orders instead....
   
   (Edit: Years ago I vaguely remember reading about a similar situation possibly pre-war with another car altogether. I forget which but one of their dealers decided to commission a similar follow-up prototype for the director's use using it as a test-bed/ demonstrator in the meantime. Can't remember what happened but for what it's worth the underlying principle's quite interesting.)
   
   Bit lost where the main factory is these days, the old Brooklands track site or Malta ?
   
   As for the pic I added "Aluminium Ace Body" into my Photobucket file as I'd forgotten the original name ! [:I] I'd run a quick Google search and found it on http://www.ndmetal.co.uk/the_cobra_gallery_NC.php

[Classicus]

quote:Originally posted by administrator
   From what I have seen of Fruas in the past, it is the bottom 12 - 18" that rots badly, and although it's a big job it can be satisfactorily repaired, especially as the body is not structural.

   Is there anywhere one can find drawings of the Frua body itself as I've never found anything down the years - how it's all put together ? This non-mechanical side of things is definitely getting more interesting by the day ! [8D]

[runt]

quote:Originally posted by nikbj68
   
It`s hard enough finding a bodyshell for anything more exotic than an MGB, isn`t it? What about someone splashing a mould off one and making fibreglass bodies, or taking the old steel ones away, stripping to bare metal, repairing & then galvanising, before paint?
   Like Manybox says, in situ repair is the only viable option for most levels of resto work.
   

   
   Nik; for some of us,this could be the ticket into Frua ownership; the last thing we'd want would be to offend any owners/admirers of 428 cars, but this could be called the 'AC Owners Club 428 series two..'[]
   Fi-glass wizards on here, please respond..!
   It's such a gorgeous car and held in such high regard that I think a 'replica' market may exist?
   Taking on board the administrators comments re the structure not being problematical, and the parts availability; good news,we can at least assume that most original cars should survive.
   
   Chuck, I did wonder what became of the Mamba; stunning!
   
   Paul.[]

[administrator]

Andy Shepherd made moulds from an original to build the lightweight composite (fibreglass? - not sure what it's made of) body shell for his fearsome black 428 racer.  If someone asks nicely he might make another!  I understand the car has been out on the track again recently for the first time in quite a while.
   
   Again, join the club if you want to know - there was an article on progress on the Mamba (slow due to other commitments) at the curent AC factory in Malta in the club mag a couple of months ago.