AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: ANF289 on September 03, 2015, 18:46:51
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FYI:
http://www.rmsothebys.com/lf15/london/lots/1987-ac-cobra-mk-iv/1076745
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Expected £120000-140000, sold for £61,600.
Not a real good estimation.
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Oh wow, someone got a bargain! I would have thought £75k-£95k with commission would have been realistic!
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
Oh wow, someone got a bargain! I would have thought £75k-£95k with commission would have been realistic!
Not really, I think it's true market value. It looks like US and European prices are equalizing.
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This car was black, but with a brown interior and also LHD, not a popular combination for the UK market. It's been advertised for around 12 months at least and I'm not clear if its actually UK registered. Prior to acquiring AK 1500, I enquired with the vendor, a trader apparently, who said he paid £80,000 for it and was asking £105,000 I think. At least it sold at auction, a rare thing. The other MK IV at Silverstone Auctions earlier this month didn't sell, but that was an auto.
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A very nice car in fantastic conditions (as far you can see on photos).
O.K. the brown interior a little rare.
To my knowledge you have to pay the “buyers premium” (commission) to Sotheby’s which is 25% on top of the hammer price plus sales tax of 20% on the total amount .
Therefore the buyer’s price finally was £92.400 equal to 127.000 Euro which is an incredible high price for continental Europe.
MkVs have been sold the last 3 year between 80.000 to 100.000 Euros on the Continent.
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Ouch! I was guessing at 15% commission, and hadn`t allowed for sales tax; that and a high £-€ rate certainly make it an expensive car in Europe!
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As an example: A year ago or so this car was offered for 95.000US$ now marked as sold
http://www.rosnermotorsports.com/1985-autokraft-ac-mark-iv-cobra-roadster.htm
Some hard negotiation and cash in your pocket and you may end up with let say 85.000 US$.
Build 1985 it is deemed as an vintage car with an reduced import tax of 6% in the Netherlands plus shipping (max. 3000 US$) you would have ended with a final buyers price of 83.500 Euros !!
3-5 years ago you could find some nice MkIVs for US$ 60.000-70.000 in the market, a lot of them found their way to the EU. These days are over, as the US-Sellers are now really aware of the European market prices.
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Yes, I remember how much the REV paid for AKL1408 (http://"http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1545"), as you say, those days are gone!
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Oooohh look at this!
Found the car I mentioned above again.....now in Switzerland.
http://www.autoscout24.ch/de/d/ac-cobra-cabriolet-occasion?allmakes=1&index=6&st=2&typename=cobra%2c%2c&vehid=3214364&vehtyp=10&returnurl=%2fde%2fautos%2falle-marken%3fallmakes%3d1%26st%3d2%26typename%3dcobra%2c%2c%26vehtyp%3d10%26r%3d5
Ok, not imported as a vintage car, therefore more import tax payed. I estimate buyers price than was approx. 100.000 Euros (inside Switzerland)………….. but look:
The car is now offered for 183.000 Euros - nearly doubbled the Price !!!
This is why car traders have a such bright smile in their face !
As all traders playing the same game, potential buyers more and more believe this level is the real market price on the other hand MkIV-Owners are quite happy with such a development.
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quote:
Originally posted by Hobo
... on the other hand MkIV-Owners are quite happy with such a development.
Only, if they want to sell the car. If they want to use it such a development is not good: the insurance fee rise and the car gets into the focus of professional thieves.
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quote:
Originally posted by Hobo
Oooohh look at this!
Found the car I mentioned above again.....now in Switzerland.
http://www.autoscout24.ch/de/d/ac-cobra-cabriolet-occasion?allmakes=1&index=6&st=2&typename=cobra%2c%2c&vehid=3214364&vehtyp=10&returnurl=%2fde%2fautos%2falle-marken%3fallmakes%3d1%26st%3d2%26typename%3dcobra%2c%2c%26vehtyp%3d10%26r%3d5
Ok, not imported as a vintage car, therefore more import tax payed. I estimate buyers price than was approx. 100.000 Euros (inside Switzerland)………….. but look:
The car is now offered for 183.000 Euros - nearly doubbled the Price !!!
This is why car traders have a such bright smile in their face !
As all traders playing the same game, potential buyers more and more believe this level is the real market price on the other hand MkIV-Owners are quite happy with such a development.
Yes this is the car Rosner were selling and was previously purchased at auction in the US. I also enquired after this too, when they were asking $95,000 USD and the $/£ rate was 1.6. They also had it over a year. Unfortunately the car wasn't exactly 30 years old and 30% UK Duty and Vat would have been applicable. That plus shipping killed the deal. Also the federalised lights and bumpers would cost a lot to delete if you didn't like them.
Incidentally, with UK Auction prices Vat is levied on the commission, not the entire hammer price!!! I also imagine the £61,600 includes all that, as auction houses like to maximise their results.
At this level the difference between what the vendor receives and what the buyer pays is around £15,000. Quite a nice hourly rate isn't it [:D][:D][:D]
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“………………..Unfortunately the car wasn't exactly 30 years old and 30% UK Duty and Vat would have been applicable. That plus shipping killed the deal……..”
Yes, exactly this was the situation. However – and in my opinion - when I saw the car I thought that a tough and serious interested potential buyer should store the care inside the USA at a safe place until it gets 30 years old. Storage cost for a few month would be far cheaper than import tax of 30% + VAT(in the UK) or 20% in Continental Europe.
“……………..Incidentally, with UK Auction prices Vat is levied on the commission, not the entire hammer price!!!.................”
Interesting detail I could to learn today………….many thanks!
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".................Only, if they want to sell the car. If they want to use it such a development is not good: the insurance fee rise and the car gets into the focus of professional thieves............."
Yes Peter,
I hear the masters voice………
…………however, if you own a MkIV – and you own a very pretty one - you are getting richer and richer based on non-realized “marketprices”.
Paying some more insurance duties is the consequence……..always a matter of your luxurious problems.
If it is properly insured, do not care about thieves, with exception that there are some emotional aspects which can not be reflected in money.
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here's the video of the auction :
https://youtu.be/d7B2Oc8yiFI?t=1h38m50s
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BTW, the car sold for £55,000, so about £82,500 with fees and taxes (€113,000), which doesn't seem bad to me, regarding the LHD and belgian plates ...
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So hammer price was £55,000... I`m still saying bargain!
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quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
So hammer price was £55,000... I`m still saying bargain!
I know dealer asking prices are almost double this figure and lets not forget that the poor old vendor got a lot less than the £55,000 hammmer price. I think the disparity is a reflection of a difficult Mk IV Cobra marketplace, where nobody (barring most owners)is clear on how to categorise the cars.
As in all rare objects of desire, find a motivated seller and you can pick one up for half what some might pay. Never been any different. On the other hand if you have £110,000 in your pocket you'll also soon find one for that.
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....exactly the point.
A legally registered MkIV in Belgian (EU), LHD and than sold for £55.000 equal to €75.000 !!
It needs some free advertisments in "mobile" or "autoscout" only and the car would have been sold in minutes with this price, even higher.
Sorry, but if the vendor shows such a low profile in marketing of his beauty or does not want be bothered with potential buyers the result of sale via an auction is nothing but fair.
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quote:
Originally posted by AC Ventura
quote:
Originally posted by nikbj68
So hammer price was £55,000... I`m still saying bargain!
I know dealer asking prices are almost double this figure...
Dealer asking price is really irrelevant. Hammer price is irrelevant also; the cost was £82,500 (or about $127,000). This is significantly greater than the mean verifiable sale price (currently about $95,000 or £61,688) that I’ve seen. The low is about $65K (~£42K back in 2006) and the high was the Dingman Mk IV at $170,500 (~£110K). The latter may be higher since I don’t remember if that value included the buyer’s premium. Thus, £82,500 in the current market doesn’t seem like a bargain to me.
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For goodness sake ! The car quite as clearly shown on the video was hammered down for £55,000. Add 10% buyers premium of £5500 plus 20% Vat on that (£1100) and it all adds up to £61,600 and that figure is exactly what's on the original posers link
The car cost the new owner £61,600 not £82,500. As you say on par with LHD asking prices, so nothing remarkable either way really.
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Thankyou for clarifying that for all.....the maths is not difficult and i have been following the thread wondering who is following which auction ...........lets us all hope the new owner is very pleased with what looks like a bargain..........anyone who needs the maths explained please send me a PM and let that be the end to a thread that has got out of control which is not the norm on this forum.
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Certainly does seem to have quickly found a new owner!!!
http://www.ddclassics.com/car-sales/AC-Cobra-Mk-IV/11296.htm
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Quite expensive Mk IV in Switzerland: www.autoscout24.ch/3214364.
228'000CHF is quite challenging a price.