AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: Superarnie Mk2 on December 04, 2012, 20:05:18
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Dear all,
As some of you may know, I have a part built AC Superblower.I am considering removing the door cards and converting the inside of the doors to a more retro looking mark 3 style. My initial assessment leads me to conclude that the side impact bars would need removing and the rear latch/lock mechanism would need replacing. I believe structural modification is required on both the door and body to accept the new latches. Has anyone completed this conversion and if so would you be able to pass on your advice. Images also would be a great help.
Many thanks
Gary
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Hi Gary,
You are opening a can of worms I assure you! It is tricky.
These are the only pictures I've got of my previous car where we performed this procedure.
I can assure you it is possible and looked fantastic when it was done, but it is difficult and if you are doing this yourself you will wonder why you started.
I haven't got a pic of the finished product or the door jam and I had professionals do the job, so I can only quote them.
Have fun!
The door before work started.
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt244/ak1023/2008_0205cobra0006.jpg)
We made a template for the hinge.
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt244/ak1023/2008_0205cobra0013.jpg)
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt244/ak1023/2008_0205cobra0012.jpg)
A plate was welded to reinforce and stiffen the door and the catch fitted.
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt244/ak1023/2008_0205cobra0005.jpg)
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt244/ak1023/2008_0205cobra0004.jpg)
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt244/ak1023/2008_0205cobra0003.jpg)
This was what we copied. 39PH.
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt244/ak1023/2007_0219COBRA0001.jpg)
Getting it all aligned and fitting so it shuts properly and looks correct is time consuming, but I think the effect of those doors adds a lot to the car. I was never happy with the panelled door and so it was worth it for me, but that is purely my own opinion.
Good luck with your project!
Regards,
Nick
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Hi Nick, thanks for taking the trouble to post those images and advising me of the issues around the conversion. Below is an image of the inside of my door (I hope), which is very similar to your own. I was hoping to saw across the hinge (vertically-ish) leaving approx 2-3 inches of hinge attached to the side impact bar and continue to cut straight through and into the side impack bar, leaving a 2-3 inch portion of side impact bar in place securing the door to the hinge. It wouldn't be perfect, but not too far off. I wondered if the welding of the remaining side impact bar to the door frame would be strong enough to support the door???
I appreciate the work involved at the other end of the impact bar and feel my local fabrication shop could manage that work.
My big concern is what is required on the body/chassis latch fitting side, as the body structure of the Superblower (and maybe the mark 4's as well), is different to the Mk3's and Mk4 lightweights??? I will try to post images of the lightweight structure in due course. I have attached an image of the Superblower structure for now.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Superblower%20Build%20Body%20Preparation/Superblowerbodyprep008.jpg)
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/Superblower%20Build%20Cockpit%20and%20Trim/Superblowerbodyprep214.jpg)
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The door jam of the lightweight is completely different. On the standard MKIV it is as you have pictured and the door pin has to be precise. That is one of the major difficulties. There is no tolerance there.
Heres the Lightweight door jam pictures:
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt244/ak1023/IMG_0272.jpg)
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt244/ak1023/IMG_0271.jpg)
As you will see the construction is completely different. The mechanism can be adjusted here and that makes life so much easier. Up down side to side. Just undo the bolts and move around. With the pin fixed in the door jam it meant that the lock was the only moveable and adjustable item.
Your door jam is different again. I'd try and leave it as close to where you are now as you can. It looks like it is much closer to the original than an early MKIV. The opening mechanism on an earlier car is from a lever in the door panel.
Hope that helps.
:-)
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just a silly question : is it possible to keep the hinge "as is", as well as the side impact bar, and "hide" it behind the door pocket, and just delete the door handle system on the bar, replacing it by a leash to operate the door jam ?
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quote:
Originally posted by French Frie
just a silly question : is it possible to keep the hinge "as is", as well as the side impact bar, and "hide" it behind the door pocket, and just delete the door handle system on the bar, replacing it by a leash to operate the door jam ?
That is in fact possible. I had that change made to my Mk IV because I did not like the Ford Capri look of the original door opener. It requires certain modifications of the mechanism but is far less cumbersome than the work described by Nick.
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great ! would you be kind enough to show some pics of the result ?
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I will do my best, Olivier. I remember having seen a description of how to post pictures in the forum not too long ago but cannot find it anymore. Could you help with this? To speed things up you could also send me your e-mail address, I would then mail you the pics.
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here's the thread : http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2560
but, as offered by email, I can post them for you on the forum [;)]...
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here are the pics from Jürgen :
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/3847/accobra021.jpg)
(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/9577/accobra027.jpg)
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9566/accobra033.jpg)
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Jürgen, I was rather thinking of something like that (sorry for the 4-year-old sketch ) :
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6495/accobra027modified.jpg)
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I think that would also be possible, a downside could be that in such case the impact bar is clearly visible and may also affect the usability of the pocket.
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Thanks to all who have contributed so far. It has certainly raised a few issues and options/dilemma's. I have considered French Frie's idea of placing a pocket in front of the side impact bar and modifying the rear lock mechanism but as 302 EFI has mentioned, I think you will either be able to see the top edge of the impact bar or see the lines of the impact bar behind the leather pocket.
I am still of the mind to stick with my first thought to cut the existing hinge length down and cut through the impact bar. I have heard that Big Al from Thunder Road has completed door conversions. I'd be interested to see any images of the conversions he has done, especially in the area of the locking mechanism. Can anyone assist?
Nick, the images you have posted show the part of the latch mechanism which attaches to the jam. It appears to be a threaded shaft with a securing nut. I wondered if that could fit directly into the hole in my jam (see my picture) and secured with the nut. I suppose though it has to have some rotational flexibility?
Many thanks
Gary
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Hi Gary,
Yes it could, but the door needs to be lined up some how. Whether you do that with a moveable lock or a moveable pin part of the mechanism is up to you, but as you can see the Lightweight is done with the moveable pin on the door jam. I tend to think thats the easiest way.
Have you had a word with Gerry Hawkridge? I heard he did conversions as well. Worth a chat??
Reagrds,
Nick
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Thanks Nick.
I've done a little research on this subject and found this;
http://tommysak427.blogspot.co.uk/
What has been done is a little crude, but it has given me food for thought.
I am guessing the 'pin' part which fits into the jam, would be firmly fixed giving no flexibility for adjustment. In which case, I think there would have to be some adjustability in the door mounted lock??.
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You'll need some adjustment somewhere as the door will move over time.
Getting the "Shut" was the most difficult thing to achieve. It needs to be precise.
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Well folks, I have decided to take the plunge and modify my doors!
I have given some considerations to the issues raised so far in this thread. I think if I was to go with 100% originality, it would be very costly indeed. The hinges would need to be re-engineered together with the receiving hinge brackets on the doors. The rear door lock jam/frame would be a massive undertaking because on the original cars the structure was tubular but on the Mk 4's and Superblowers, it is a rectangular box section. I have therefore gone for what I consider to be a good compromise. I will log down what I have done in the following frames so if anyone in the future considered doing this, they could give see at least one method to consider for themselves.
First of all, I measured the length of the hinge 'strap' on my friend's lightweight. It was 2 1/2 inches in length.I therefore cut my hinge straps down to that length. At this same juncture, I cut away the side impact bar. The following image shows this work. I drilled and tapped a third securing hole on the remaining hinge strap and fitted countersunk bolts.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/P1060906_zps60b8918e.jpg)
The following image shows the hole left in the door jam once the locating spigot of the original lock mechanism was removed. As you may be able to see it's not quite circular. I therefore used a reamer to make it perfectly circular with a diametre of 16mm. I then made the decision to fit the new locating spigot. The item has been shown earlier in this thread by REV. It is a tapered spigot which locates in the door lock, with an inch and a half 5/16th UNF threaded portion. I had a stainless steel 16mm bush made which fitted snugly in the reamed hole. The length of the bush was sufficient to fully but up against the rear of the rectangular box section frame. The bush was centrally drilled to received the 5/16th UNF portion. Using the bush then as a guide, I drilled a small hole through the hole in the bush, into the rear plate of the rectangular box section and tapped it witha 5/16 UNF thread. The locating spigot was then pushed through the bush, turned in the rear thread of the box section until tight. The whole assembly at this point was very firm and secure. To finish this area off, I placed a 5/16th UNF locknut on the exposed thread of the spigot which was visible in the wheel arch. Hope you follow!
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/P1060896_zps4fccef30.jpg)
I was then able to hang the actual lock onto the locating spigot in order to gauge to location for the mounting plate in the door.
I removed the rear lock mechanism from the door and most of the surrounding lock support framework. I retained some of the surrounding structure to ensure rigidity to the door, if it had have been all cut away the tubular door frame would be heavily weakened. As I completed this process the side impact bar was also taken away.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/P1060907_zps5d9a6612.jpg)
I then had the lock mounting plates fabricated with 3mm mild steel plate. It was bent to shape and to replicate that on my friends lightweight. Once it was fettled to ensure an exact fit to each door, it was welded into place.This was a tricky process because I was concerned the aluminium skin of the door would melt. To help reduce this risk, the outside of the door skin was placed onto a large cotton cloth and soaked in freezing cold water. Immediately after a small section of welding was done, it was also instantly quenched in water. It seemed to work as the outer skin is perfectly intact. The lock mechanism was attached to the locating spigot to ensure alignment was right for the support plate. As far as adjustment is concerned, there is none in the locating spigot, that is fixed and rigid. However there is lateral adjustment on the lock mechanism. I purposely made the mounting plate no quite as deep as it needed to be, so that if necessary I could pack washers between the lock and support plate. Additionally the lock is bolted to the plate by 4 slightly oversized hole allowing for a small amount of rotational flexibility to marry up against the spigot.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/P1060918_zps0fda6c8f.jpg)
So there you have it. All that's left to do is repaint the door frames, carpet the inner door skins and have a leather pocket professionally trimmed and fitted.
For some reason Photobucket won't let me attach the final image. I will add another item to this thread with it on. Hope this has been of some value.
Gary
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As promised.
The overall look.
One thing I forgot to mention above is that the side impact bar which attaches to the hinge will have an end cap welded to it to finish it nicely.
As I mentioned at the start, it's not perfectly oroginal, but I think it's close enough!!
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/P1060919_zpsa3185a61.jpg)
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Looks quite good to me. Thank you for posting.
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Great job.... Well done!
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great Job, indeed, and very tempting ... but the welding job frightens me, even though a friend of mine is a professional welder !
IIRC, Rev said that his door was plunged in water when welding ... but my understanding is that, in your case, the door was left on the car, right ?
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Very well done.
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If you start to modify the car why not a real door lock fake?
Could be a fabricated cover from stainless steel in the way the original looks but with a cutout for the MK IV pin. The levers off the MG locks adapted to the MK IV mechanism, Done!
Together with the before mentioned door pocket it will look for sure old style without welding and cutting anything.
Just an idea....reversable any time if you want....
Uwe
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French Frie,
In the last of the above images I've posted (the one that shows the finished door)the steel plate was temporarily 'self tapped' to the door lock mechanism and the door was closed against it, to ensure correct height and correct angle alignment. The bracket was then 'tac' welded into place just to hold it. The door and plate in its entirity was removed to the bench and the welding/quenching began!
Hope this makes sense!