AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => General Forum => Topic started by: Mark IV on December 08, 2006, 17:53:58
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Please draw your own conclusions, I offer no comment..........http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/12/08/project-kimber-previews-new-smart-based-ac/ ...
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark IV
Please draw your own conclusions, I offer no comment..........http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/12/08/project-kimber-previews-new-smart-based-ac/ ...
Is this really the future for our beloved marque?
(http://images.leftlanenews.com/content/dec7-ac.jpg)
The AC name licensed to a re-badged cast-off? Oh dear.
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Ignoring the issue of using an AC badge (to avoid being rude) why oh why did they use the 'Ace' name YET AGAIN..?! Is it beyond the whit of man to come up with something new?? So that will be at least four Ace models out there - how many more? This displays a total lack of imagination.
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quote:
Originally posted by Trevor Legate
Is it beyond the whit of man to come up with something new??
On advise of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer that question.[:0]
Rick (keeping his mouth shut....NOT easy!!!)
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark IV
quote:
Originally posted by Trevor Legate
Is it beyond the whit of man to come up with something new??
On advise of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer that question.[:0]
Rick (keeping his mouth shut....NOT easy!!!)
Come on Ricker.... we`re not talking a specific Man here..... get it off your chest! [:p][;)]
Kimber failed to resurrect the MG line and although Daimler Chrysler have big plans for their 'current' Smarts, including breaking the US market, the version that Kimber have taken on will have a target audience for whom the AC name and reputation mean little, if not nothing. Is it (speculating, not stating a fact, thanks, counsel!)possible that the licensing of the AC badge is intended to keep the Maltesers afloat? [?]
How`s about a name brainstorming session. I`ll kick off with:
- AC Appendix
- AC Divot
- AC Bullfrog
- AC Capricious
Pray continue.
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Hours of fun Nik - how about a small Festive prize for the winner?
* AC Revival
or keeping the ruddy 'A' thing going:
* AC Afterthought (too close to home?)
* AC Anticlimax (a bit Freudian)
* AC Alien (a bit Sigourney Weaverish?)
and so many more....!!!
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I, for one, hope the Kimber project comes to fruition with the AC badge on the bonnet.
Let it be called an Ace. The AC Ace name will not suffer and if anything will add more to the past as well as to the future. It will bring the model, its history and the marque back into a high profile. Well, if it goes pear-shape, so what, we will we all say 'I told you so'. But until that happens it has my thumbs-up.
Nik, if it a licensing issue for the Malta team, well good luck to them, if it means the Mk V will develop and we see it on our roads I cannot see anything wrong with that. If it was your business and someone wanted to license your brand name I'm sure you would not pass it by.
I don't know any young petrol-head who the Kimber AC would appeal too that does not know the name AC. I'm sure the Kimber promo material will give some sort of history.
Terry
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quote:
Originally posted by terry3000me
I, for one, hope the Kimber project comes to fruition with the AC badge on the bonnet.
Let it be called an Ace.... It will bring the model, its history and the marque back into a high profile. ...it has my thumbs-up.
Nik...If it was your business and someone wanted to license your brand name I'm sure you would not pass it by.
I don't know any young petrol-head who the Kimber AC would appeal too that does not know the name AC....
Terry
I too hope it`s a success, and indeed, the licensing of the name is (I presume)good for 'AC', but I would guess a lot of potential cutomers aren`t 'Petrolheads', based on the fact that some of the (admittedly, not many) Smart owners I know fall into the category of 'Don`t really want a car, but if I must have one, it should have a low environmental impact and might as well look a bit funky too...' sort of thing.
I used to think that any publicity was good publicity, but the recent AC-related stories(Connecticut move, Malta move etc) all seem to have a negative bias.
It would be good to see things moving in a positive direction.
The best publicity for AC I`ve seen recently is the M&S Credit Card ad, several people asking me what the gorgeous car is, Ace Bristol being the answer!
For the benefit of those who can`t watch UK TV, watch it here:
http://www.tellyads.com/show_movie.php?filename=TA0914&advertiser=Marks%20&%20Spencer
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Many thanks for the link to the M&S advert. I tried without success to record it as it was my car they used. I think I'll wait to see if the new Ace materialises and comment after seeing in the flesh.Tony Michaels
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Don't make too many assumptions about Smart owners, nikbj. There are some lurking here... Like me - I have had many great cars over the years, including two wonderful AC's. But one of the most fun cars I have ever had is (well, actually the wife has it unless I can prise the keys from her!) a Smart for 2 cabriolet. Brilliant car, brilliant piece of clean sheet design and great fun!
Keith
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Tony, I`ll trawl through some stuff I`ve recorded, I`m sure the ad is there somewhere, and if it is, I`ll send you a copy on DVD. Qutie a few people asking if it`s a Healey or (of course, had to happen) Cobra, in fact M&S told someone that it`s a `64 Cobra, but unfortunately won`t be for sale in stores!
Keith, apologies about the generalisation!
I had a Smart as a holiday hire car a few years ago and I did like it, not tried the Roadster though. I`ve seen a Brabus one, now that`s a cracking little thing!
It looks like Kimber are closer to getting this together than they were with the MG project, now having Gordon Murray on board to lead the design team, but there have been no updates on their website since August...http://www.projectkimber.com/
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Question?
If I "licensed" the AC trademark to put on, say a re-badged" Perdua, would it be a "real AC"?
I know coming from me that this sounds like a smart-arse question, but it begs a real point. If the survival of AC depends upon being produced and sold as a brand with no AC DNA or production content, is it an "AC"?
Also while "Project Kimber" features the AC logo now on the website, I have seen no press release from them regarding the brand nor any further PR flak from AC's "dear leader" regarding this deal. One would think they would be promoting it. I guess I just don't understand. Over to you Trevor.
Rick
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Rick, would you be the "AC Smart-Ace" Registrar? [B)](pronounce it how you like!)
It does seem a parallel discussion to the Shelby Dodge Charger issue, no?
If the licensing deal is between Kimber & 'Acedes Holdings, LLC', rather than 'AC Cars Manufacturing(Malta)' or 'AC Advanced Vehicle Technology Ltd.' maybe the income won`t directly impact the Malta production line....
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Oh thanks Rick..!! Poisoned chalice time. Funnily enough, you just beat me to the "DNA" observation - my thoughts precisely. I have just got back from a little light Christmas shopping (it's the wife - she expects pressies!!) and a black Smart Roadster drove past and I pondered in my wisdom - exactly what part of that is an AC? (To the average auto enthusiast, slapping a prancing horse badge onto a Mazda MX5 ain't gonna turn it into a Ferrari)
I also agree regarding the deafening silence emanating from Malta about this magnificent deal. Strikes me as odd, but there you go. Much of the AC history post-1996 has been a trifle odd. Not that I am criticising, being a humble snapper and writer who knows nothing of high finance and the dark art of shifting money around. Those are some of my thoughts - I assume this forum exists to permit people to think out loud, especially those who really did care for the business once known as 'AC Cars Ltd'. But we live in different times now, like it or not.
Another thought Nik - I wonder if the Project Kimber folk think they are recreating the right Ace, having seen the M&S ad? No, probably not, but I know which car will have more style....
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quote:
AC Advanced Vehicle Technology
Now THERE is an oxymoron![:D]
Thanks for the registrar offer, but I think I'll pass. I would rather be the Mamba registrar, only one mock-up to count and keep track of![:0]
Rick
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Isnt this just like every other successful venture in auto history .. one mans design, someones name and someone elses money ???
What comes to mind ?? GT40, Pantera, Shelby Mustang, AcCobra ???
Just my 2 cent observation ??
Ron
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(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o66/upload12/ac-ace-s.jpg)Found some additional images and info from http://www.channel4.com/4car/ft/smart/roadster+coupe/5594/1
I wonder how the Smart owners club feel about this concept?
On the DNA theme is it something that can be consodered as child from a marriage between two companies?
Terry
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o66/upload12/ac-ace-i.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o66/upload12/ac-ace-badge.jpg)
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quote:
On the DNA theme is it something that can be consodered as child from a marriage between two companies?
Smart provides the basis of the car, the engineering, the powertrain and AC provides the emblems.
Rick
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Thanks for the link & pics Terry.
I do like the look of it.
And have you heard one of those 3-cyl engines? Rorty!
Interesting 'assumption' by the C4 journo:
".'..The plan is to develop the brand. Under the licensing agreement reached with AC other iconic names from the company's archives can be made available.' That could leave the way open for names such as Cobra, Aceca or even Greyhound to return...."
And another thought. Will it be confusing having two cars on the market called the 'AC Ace'...being as AC themselves are currently offering the 'Ace Classic' ?
quote:
Originally posted by Mark IV
Question?
If I "licensed" the AC trademark to put on, say a re-badged" Perdua, would it be a "real AC"?...Rick
Along the lines of Daewoos now being Chevrolets?
"Wow...I`ve got a Matiz, I feel like a Corvette owner..."[:I]
(http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/motability/images/matiz.gif)
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Dear Mamba Registrar - good point. AC will step foward and provide 0.0001% of the vehicle (or less). Sounds like money for nothing to me.
Having said that there has been no publicity, naturally that illustration appears on the cover of the current issue of AutoExpress and the same press release is reguritated with Autocar. It is worth noting that the 'boss' of Project Kimber has pointed out that the deal has NOT been finalised as they are waiting confirmation that one final investor will hand over the contents of his Post Office savings account and the car 'might' be built next year and it 'might' be built in Wales, in the old Panasonic factory. So all this remains conjecture.
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quote:
Originally posted by Trevor Legate
Sounds like money for nothing to me.
Money for nothing, and your chicks for free.........
Rick[:D]
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#...Custom kitchen deliverieieies...#
Ahem....
If the Panasonic site is a no-go, we`ve got the empty Wells-Kelo (Hedstrom) toy factory up for grabs in North Wales....not suggesting in any way that the Smart IS a toy....
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Coming up Aces
Brit group plans to sell Smarts with AC badges
By JULIAN RENDELL
AutoWeek | Published 12/11/06, 3:24 pm et
Smart’s Roadster and Coupe may be saved from oblivion by a British group call Project Kimber that plans to build and sell the cars with the AC Ace badges.
U.S. sales are part of the revival plan, which hinged on a recently completed deal with Mercedes-Benz for the rights to the Smart Roadster, and financing that the group says is “in the final stages.”
Kimber plans to build up to 7000 Aces annually starting in autumn 2007. The cars will be built in either Great Britain or in Asia, depending on investor requirements.
Key personnel already lined up include Gordon Murray, former technical director for McLaren Cars, as technical advisor, and Keith Helfet, ex-Jaguar designer, as styling consultant. Murray’s knowledge will be vital in designing the scissors doors, which will be used on high-end Ace models (shown). Pricing is expected to range from £12,000 ($23,000) to £19,000 ($37,000).
Kimber’s plan calls for using a Mitsubishi 0.7-liter turbocharged three-cylinder engine making around 100 hp, the same output as the Brabus Roadster.
Kimber will use the AC name under license from Al Lubinsky, who says his own plans for an AC factory in Connecticut are on ice. Lubinsky had hoped to build and distribute three models (“Pond Hopping, Ambitious AC plan calls for U.S. factory,” June 13, 2005).
“We still have an offer on the table from Connecticut of some funding and a factory, but we have to keep our options open,” Lubinsky says.
Once again, please tell me why anyone would pay a royalty for the AC name? "factory plans on ice"...yeah, that's a nice way to put it.
But maybe it's just me.....
Rick
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Why is Murray needed to design the scissor doors - the hinges are available off the shelf at a cost of circa £1200 each. They slide the door out and back and then flip up. They can be retro-fitted to some TVR models.
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Trevor,
Better question is "why is Murray involved with this?"
I would love to be a fly on the wall when Gordon meets "Dear Leader."
Rick
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark IV
Trevor,
Better question is "why is Murray involved with this?"
I would love to be a fly on the wall when Gordon meets "Dear Leader."
Rick
....and the in-depth technical discussion will undoubtedly go on long into the night.
I was talking to the owner of an indecently rapid (non-original) 'Cobra', and he assured me that although the asthmatic little Smart roadster engine lacked forward momentum, its ability to go round corners should not be underestimated!! This is in its pre-'AC' incarnation of course. Or should it be the Project Kimber Ace?
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Interesting to note that Mr.Lubinsky is suggesting that the Connecticut plans are "on ice"...is that the first 'official' announcement that the plans are not going ahead? Will there be a similar announcement regarding Unique Performance anytime soon?
AC are front page news in Auto Express:
(http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_422/car_photo_211179_13.jpg)
The whole slant of the story is very much that AC are back with a new model, but nowhere other than Rick`s quote from Autoweek have I seen mention of the possibility of Asian manufacture, merely uncertainty as to the final location of the factory.
I popped into a SMART dealership on Monday, just to see if they knew anything more,(which they didn`t... just a copy of Autoweek!)and I reckon if I`d had £7500 cash in my pocket, I could have driven home in a high-spec Brabus For2, sticker price £10,999! He offered it to me for £8995, then £8000 without much pushing, before I made it clear I really wasn`t buying!
Let`s hope the allure of the AC badge increases desire.[:p]
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Hello to everybody, I am mika and for many years now owner of a smart roadster coupé. My third roady is now a Smart roadster brabus xclusive coupé. I am very interestet in the following AC Ace-roady. I look forward to the car show at Geneva in March 2007 to see the AC ACE live.
(http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/26016560885.jpg) (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3431538)
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hi
im am racing driver from switzerland and i am de winner from de street car championship in de CH, in de smart coupe.
more? - www.feusiracing.ch
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Hi Mika and Racer, welcome to the ACOC forum,
Mika, Cool graphics on the side of your car,
and Hugo, congratulations on your Victory!
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hello and i'm mitschka, a other person from switzerland. i drive since April 2003 a roadster coupe. we dream for a future for this car....
(http://www.marcello.li/Bilder/smart_signatur.jpg)
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I was sad to see the demise of AC after over 100 years of existence and regrettably cannot see much hope for it's resurrection with the MkV.
Had dinner with one of the Kimber principals last night who is still reasonably optimistic about getting the project off the ground. If the only realistic way to keep the marque going is through Kimber then I, for one, applaud the move and wish them every success. Would doubly do so if this can then lead to the development of more "grunty" cars that more faithfully follow the AC tradition. That, of course, would be the really risky stage. It is one thing to adapt an existing design that someone else has poured huge amounts of development dollars into and another to start from scratch. Again, lets hope they get in a position to be able to make that call.
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Just wondering - if (if, if, if) the Kimber thingy actually happens, which company is AC - the one in Wales(?) or the one in Malta. They can't both be - can they..????
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Well, there is a real gap in the market for another "true Brit" sportscar for the domestic market to replace the loss of TVR and line up with Morgan, Marcos, Noble, Caterham etc.
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Trevor.
Or maybe one in China??
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quote:
Originally posted by Trevor Legate
Just wondering - if (if, if, if) the Kimber thingy actually happens, which company is AC - the one in Wales(?) or the one in Malta. They can't both be - can they..????
A similar situation to the early 80s when AC were building the ME and Autokraft the AC MkIV under licence?
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quote:
Originally posted by Trevor Legate
Just wondering - if (if, if, if) the Kimber thingy actually happens, which company is AC - the one in Wales(?) or the one in Malta. They can't both be - can they..????
Trevor,
The "real" AC is the one that provides royalty checks to a certain South African native (two guesses, and J. Price is not one of them)
"AC" has made more income in the last few years from video game licensing than from building motorcars! Of course, this also works for Harley-Davidson as they make more form licensing than screwing together motorcycles, but at least they really do build bikes!
Rick[}:)]
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Rick
I think you may be right and there is much to be said from sitting back and collecting royalty payments, or so they tell me - just ask Paul McCartney & Co. We should all be so lucky. So should Mr.Price, who tried to keep the "AC" name alive.
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Does anybody know exactly: will the new AC ACE really be exposed at the car show in Geneva march 2007? in the homepage of this car show nothing is mentionned about the new AC ACE (smart roadster replica).
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Mika, I'll eat my hat if we see a new Ace before the summer.Has the investment package been completed? (www.projectkimber.com)
Terry
PS I'm going to Geneva show on Thursday 15 March, happy to meet anyone for a lunch time beer.
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we have been in Geneva yesterday. It's disappointed, we didn't have seen the new AC ACE. When do we get new informations on the homepage projectkimber?
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You guys' are dreaming! AC is dead! I hope I am wrong!
Emmanuel