AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: ak1234 on April 04, 2009, 02:18:53
-
Does anyone know which brake booster and master are used on the 1988 Autocraft ? I have to say its a nice slim and compact set up ..I want to use it on my Pantera.
Thanks in advance
Ron
-
Hi Ron,
I suggest you contact Bob Green at http://www.bgdevelopments.co.uk/
I think I'm right in saying Bob supplied the systems to AC and Autocraft.
Good luck - John.
-
Please let us know what you find out. Thanks!
quote:
Originally posted by cobham cobra
Hi Ron,
I suggest you contact Bob Green at http://www.bgdevelopments.co.uk/
I think I'm right in saying Bob supplied the systems to AC and Autocraft.
Good luck - John.
-
I will do that .. yes I seen this site in my search but never emails him ...I will now and let you know.
Ron
-
Ron, please advise me as well, it looks like need one for my car. jim
-
I would also be interested about the result. The brake master cylinder is from Girling. The number is: G 64679152Q123 X
There exits two different versions: with a 7/8" bore and with 13/16" bore. I have the 7/8". So far I have no idea about the brake booster.
Please post your results here.
@Jim: why do you think you need a new one? Is your brake a little bit too weak? I am asking because I think this brake setup has some room for optimisations.
Regards,
Peter
-
FYI - a couple of years ago I had the brake servo or booster removed from my car because I felt the system was over servoed and the front wheels were all too easily locking - even under moderate brake pressure. I had Bob Green Developments modify my system to include a brake balance or bias adjustment dial for front and rear balance. The result is a MUCH harder pedal, but the pedal has much more feel and the car is more settled under braking.
Sometimes I wish I still had a servo but only after I've been driving a modern car for a while.
Cheers - John.
-
Peter, while I haven't isolated issue, I'm loosing brake fluid at each drive. Have to double pump brake as I'm loosing pressure. Have take wheels off and do visual diagnostics for leaks, but I suspect booster or master based on some drips in garage. Also have 3 wheel brake feel, so I could have a frozen caliper perhaps. My thought is to know where to access booste and master before i send her to the shop. Also looking at having rear wheel bearings packed (at 10,000 miles already) have you done that deed as well? Jim
-
Still no luck ... uncovered my car and found a ford sticker on the booster..searched the e net and not found any that resemble the one in my car .. someone has to know where it came from.
Ron
-
Ron, these bad boys can be rebuilt andperhaps a rebuilder would have one lying arround. If we could find John XXXXXfrom Malta , he might know source. Also two English firms who have MV's as parts are same as I was told. Jim
-
The booster may be a Ford Granada/Sierra as I recall. There is a rebuilder in the states that can re-do the booster. I can provide the contact info. The master cylinder can be rebuilt or replaced.
If you have the Ford engineering number off the booster, I may be able to cross it to a service part number. That part would not be avilable in the US, but should be good in the UK as an NOS part or as an aftermarket item.
-
Ron. I would guess that having found a Ford sticker, the part is from a contemporary UK ford model, such as Fiesta,Escort,Sierra,Granada...any chance of an id no stamped anywhere, or a picture so we can have a think about it?
-
Thanks guys I will continue my search ... as I;m not oo familiar witht he UK Ford models I will expand my e net search. The last resort would be to sned it out for rebuild ... I dont want to loose time in the season driving the car.
Thanks
-
quote:
Originally posted by jbottini
Peter, while I haven't isolated issue, I'm loosing brake fluid at each drive. Have to double pump brake as I'm loosing pressure. Have take wheels off and do visual diagnostics for leaks, but I suspect booster or master based on some drips in garage. Also have 3 wheel brake feel, so I could have a frozen caliper perhaps. My thought is to know where to access booste and master before i send her to the shop. Also looking at having rear wheel bearings packed (at 10,000 miles already) have you done that deed as well? Jim
Jim,
loosing brake fluid is indeed a sign to repair the master brake cylinder. The rubbers in the cylinder get leaky over time and the brake fluid runs to the booster and leaves through the booster and cylinder. Sometimes the fuid destroys the membrane of the booster.
I haven't changed the rear wheel bearings. They were ok but the shims for setting up the correct rear end were destroyed. I made a new spacer so I could get rid of the shims. Seems to work.
Regards, Peter
-
Peter,
I'm planning on evaluating brakes this weekend...your observation is in line with mine. As to rear wheel bearings, I need to re-pack, not replace. your experience there could be helpful. do you have more details of that procedure than are on the "rebuilding" site/
Jim
-
John .... not sure your going to want to PACK the rear wheel bearings ... there is a grease fitting on top of the rear upright ..pumping grease into it should take care of that procedure.
Oh ..I foudn the booster ... the boys were correct its from a sierra .. only one problem ..there is one on ebay but he will not ship to the US ... bonehead. The search continues.
Ron
-
Ron. send me the item number & I`ll buy it & ship to you. No problem.
-
quote:
Originally posted by jbottini
Peter,
I'm planning on evaluating brakes this weekend...your observation is in line with mine. As to rear wheel bearings, I need to re-pack, not replace. your experience there could be helpful. do you have more details of that procedure than are on the "rebuilding" site/
Jim
Jim,
here comes a short description of what I did. It's not professional but it worked with the tools I had at home.
The original bearing spacer were made of normal construction steal. That
was to mild. Now, my turner made me spacer using C45 steel. But I guess
this is a german DIN standard. It's an non-alloyed high-grade steel with
a carbon content of 0,45 mass percentage. That should be ok.
So, you need a bearing spacer with a thickness that is a little bit too
big so you can grinding it to the perfect thickness. Of course the
thickness of the two different spacer (left and right) will be different
in general. I think a thickness of 17mm should be ok for a starting
point. The I.D. should be s.t. the spacer has no tolerance on the hub
but you should be able to remove it by hand. The O.D. was 1 7/8".
Step 1: put all the things together (with grease) but without the
spacer and dont use the bolt for the rear drive flange. Press the
flange simply by hand as far as you can but without big power. The roles
of the bearing shouldn't be pressed strongly to the hub carrier. Now,
put the assembled hub into a wheel and measure the torque you need to
start turning the hub. You should use a spring scale for that job.
Please look at the following picture what I have in mind:
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r138/dkp_cobra/Cobra/IMGP3398.jpg)
The idea behind this task is to get a reference value for the torque you
need to turn the wheel when there is no (or nearly) no pressure on the
bearing.
Step 2: put all together with the spacer and the bolt for the rear
drive flange and torque it nearly to it's final specification. The hub
carrier should have a certain tolerance on the hub because the spacer is
to thick s.t. the bearing rolls are pressed to the hub carrier. If you
have no tolerance the initial spacer was to small. How you you test the
tolerance? Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of that and I don't
want to remove the hub carrier from my car. I mounted a leverage of ca.
60cm at the hub carrier and put it into the wheel and torqued the wheel
nut. Now, if you fix the wheel you have the power by the leverage to
check the tolerance of the hub carrier wrt. the hub.
Step 3: remove the bearing spacer and grinding let's say 0,003". I used
sandpaper for that. If you do it by hand you will probably slope it. I
used this simple but effective way:
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r138/dkp_cobra/Cobra/IMGP3518.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r138/dkp_cobra/Cobra/IMGP3519.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r138/dkp_cobra/Cobra/IMGP3520.jpg)
In order to measure whether you really has only 0,003" removed to should
use a micrometer. If you don't have one you get it for some euros at ebay.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r138/dkp_cobra/Cobra/IMGP3517.jpg)
Step 4: repeat step 2 and step 3 until there is no tolerance of the hub
carrier to its hub. (I guees you will repeat this 5, 10 or 15 times).
Please check each time the torque you need to turn the hub carrier and
compare it with your reference value from step 1. It shouldn't increase
too much. You are finished if there is no tolerance and the wheel turns
easily.
Step 5: repeat everything for the other side
-
nikbj68 Thanks and very resonably priced .... Item number: 390048635493
Let me know I will send you the money.
Ron
-
AK1234 Ron, what is Sierra part number for booster?? Have you found master cylinder? I can not locate it with "G" number above. Jim 1113
-
quote:
Originally posted by jbottini
AK1234 Ron, what is Sierra part number for booster?? Have you found master cylinder? I can not locate it with "G" number above. Jim 1113
Jim:
Ford Sierra Mk1 / Mk2 Brake Booster Servo 'Girling'
1982 - 15/2/1993
Ford Part Number 6195975
Art
Another one at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ford-Sierra-MK2-New-G-Ford-brake-booster_W0QQitemZ310116417599QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item483461003f&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
-
quote:
Originally posted by ak1234nikbj68 Thanks and very resonably priced .... Item number: 390048635493
Let me know I will send you the money.
Ron
Hi Ron.
Just checked, and they do ship worldwide, although it`s not in the 'shipping info' on the auction page. If you follow the link to their Ford Parts UK (http://"http://www.fordpartsuk.com/shipping.htm") site there are details, so this would save you the cost of me having to ship it here and then on to you.
The shipping looks likely to be around $50 by my calculations...so maybe armed with a part number you could find the servo closer to home?
Good luck, whichever way this works out.[:)]
-
I emailed them thru ebay and he insists that he will not ship it .. bozo ! Anyway if you get the message in time bid it and I will pay for it and shipping.
Thanks Ron
-
OK Ron....will do. Sorry to have led you astray on what looked like clear information!
-
Root Cause Analysis time.
I found an interesting article about servo problems, and there was this statement attached:
Reproduction of a warning note from AP Lockheed on problems with silicone fluids in braking systems
Silicone brake fluids - beware
Our technical service department is receiving an alarming number of calls from motorists reporting problems with silicone fluids. AP Lockheed neither markets such fluids nor recommends their use with our own or any other braking system.
Virtually all the problems relate to long/spongy pedal, sudden loss of brakes and hanging on of brakes. They reflect certain properties of silicone fluids identified by us over many years and recently ratified in SAE publications, namely high ambient viscosity, high air absorption, high compressibility, low lubricity and immiscibility with water. Research has shown that the relationships between problems reported and properties identified may be expressed as follows:
Long/spongy pedal
o Compressibility, up to three times that of glycol based fluids.
o High viscosity, twice that of glycol based fluids, leading to slow rates of fill and retention of free air entrapped during filling and hence bleeding difficulties.
Sudden loss of brakes
o Air absorption - gasification of absorbed air at relatively low temperature produces vapour lock effect.
o Immiscibility (failure to mix) with water - whilst the presence of dissolved water will reduce the boiling point of glycol based fluids, any free water entrapped in silicone filled systems will boil and produce vapour lock at much lower temperatures (100C or thereabouts).
Hanging-on of brakes
o Low lubricity - in disc brake systems the sole mechanism for normalisation if system pressure upon release of pedal pressure is a designed-in tendency of seals to recover to their "at rest" attitude. Low lubricity works against this tendency.
o High viscocity, exacerbating the above effect.
It should not be assumed, therefore, that the high price of silicone fluids implies higher performance in hard driving or even normal road use.
AP Lockheed glycol based fluids do not contain the adverse properties described above. The recently introduced Supreme DOT 5.1, which exceeds the performance criteria of DOT5, is suitable for all conditions likely to be encountered in modern driving conditions.
It is of course possible that a company that sells millions of pounds worth of 'after sale' replacement brake parts & fluids would be disinclined to embrace a no/low maintenance product, but it is a contentious subject worthy of further examination, at least.
-
One remark concerning the Ford Fiesta brake booster. Before everybody of you starts bidding and buying Fiesta brake booster on ebay please have a look into your car whether you have such a booster. In my quite early MK IV (AK 1029) is a Triumph TR6 booster.
Peter
-
TR6 is a strange choice, having been out of production since 1976...the Sierra part(not Fiesta) was at least a current vehicle at the time(although that doesn`t make finding the parts N.O.S easy now, 20+ years on!!!)
quote:
Posted by Peter DKP: The brake master cylinder is from Girling. The number is: G 64679152Q123 X...I have the 7/8".
Is this the number for your TR6 item or the Ford part, Peter?
-
Sierra, not Fiesta. I am sorry (everybody who drove both know what I mean). My booster has the same dimension as the booster of a TR6. The advantage is that it is no problem to get a replacement.
The number G 64679152Q123 X is stamped on the master brake cylinder. The TR6 I looked today had a different number. So I don't know where it comes from. My contact person at TRW/Girling had no problems sending me the correct repair set for that master brake cylinder.
-
I'll check my master cylinder tonight for a part or casting number (as I think the G number may be) I can't make sense with any American Girling suppliers for a rebuild kit or replacement master, so I may ask you to buy me a rebuilt kit AND a master and send to me.
-
OK. I`ve had a guy cross reference the casting number "G 64679152Q123" and it is actually for a `72-`76 MkI Ford Granada. Original Girling part number 64066627, new reference PMH117.
-
Nik, thanks, i'll check tonight for a casting or pn. jim
-
Jim,
Sorry missed your call today ..I need your cell #. please buzz me back tomorrow.
I will be checking for #'s on the booster and master this weekend with a mirror and flash light as I have yet to remove it from the car.
Thanks Ron
-
Today I recieved the brake booster which was forsale on ebay UK and want to thanks NIK for helping me out and purchasing it and shipping it to me in the USA. Its great to see that one of my fellow AC Owners helped me out and great to know there are still good people on this site.
I would do the same for Nik and any of you of you ever need anything in New York. I'm here to help also.
Nik Again,
Thanks Ron
-
Sadly not actually an AC owner, but still very happy to have been able to help.[:D]
That`s kind of what this whole forum lark is about, right? [8D]