AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: ak1234 on March 15, 2008, 21:53:13
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Does any one know if to install a Paxton Style Supercharger on Ak1234 is there a kit. Meaning I could purchase one but which kit would I buy ? Mustang ? I was thinking maybe the factory used one of the off the shelf kits on the SUPER BLOWERS.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Ron
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Ron, you might try John Owen @ malta, they did a few and might give you direct and even know what changes they did between MKIV and SuperBlowers. Other than than that a Mustang kit <do you have speed density or mass air flow or carb> without AC..still be a bit of custom I believe. Jim
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Good idea .. I will try John @ AC. I have an 88 HO 5.0L with EFI I believe that Mass Airflow ? I'm thinking a 88 Mustnag kit should do it ..but I think last time a long time ago it requires an upgrade to the fuel system and the car should be sent to a TUNER to set it up after installed ?
Thanks.
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I have fitted a Powerdyne silent drive supercharger to the 302 in my MK IV that runs at 6 psi. Up to 9psi is available
http://www.powerdyne.com/
I believe it is the same type that was fitted to the superblowers.
Took experts to get it to run properly and complete the modifications to the EFI etc. Now that it does run properly the dyno indicates 450 bhp.[:)]
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Ron, might be mass airflow, might be speed density...the engine installs did not follow the serial sequence, year of mfg or perhaps the serials followed no sequence necessarily. If you have mass airfow, you are ahead. I'm told the speed density has a narrow window of improvement and has to get replaced for upper ranges. The other option is a positive displacement unit aka kenne bell, which yields better boost down low.Jim
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JIm / Ak1440 .. yes powerdyne was the manufacturer ...I'm told the fuel system had to be tweeked or upgraded also and tuned for final peek perfromance.
MAF or MAP not sure how to tell the difference ..is the MAF in line on the air intake ? I looked for a pic so I can look at the motor tomorrow but nothing cearly shows the difference ?
Ron
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Ron, I don't know how to tell visually. there a FORD performance site that might help. But, BA bought motors in somewhat large lots as consumed them slowly, so it is possible you have a speed density. Check the actual build date in the registry under the OWNERS club. Jim
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Ron
Regards supercharging your Cobra, consult " Alan Faulkner Stevens" the official ACOC MK1V Cobra registrar, not only is he conversant with Cobras but he owns / runs Dragon Wheels specialising in restoration of Genuine Shelby Mustangs.
His knowledge is 2nd to none. and access to his reference library will save you a lot of time and energy.
Alans email ;- Faulknerstevens@btinternet.com
Check out advert in Classic and SportsCar magazine.
Good Luck
Keith
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Does anyone have any pics of the motors in SUPERBLOWERS with Supercharger units in place ?
Ron
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here you go............
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn81/jimbothejet/CobrainFranceMay20070024.jpg)
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn81/jimbothejet/CobrainFranceMay20070023.jpg)
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn81/jimbothejet/CobrainFranceMay20070022.jpg)
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn81/jimbothejet/CobrainFranceMay20070006.jpg)
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quote:
Originally posted by ak1234
Does anyone have any pics of the motors in SUPERBLOWERS with Supercharger units in place ?
Ron
I will wilingly send you some photos of my Superblower set up as cars did vary from one model to another.
The car in the photo may be ACSB 7005, which would make it a 1998 model. Mine is 7013 (Oct 1999) and there were problems with the supercharger set up. This was solved eventually, but not by the factory( I wrote an account in ACtion a few years back) and the car does now give out a genuine 355bhp but a number of mods were required to get in going 'on song'.
Send me your e-mail and I will send some photos and an account of the work done to the car if that would be of help.
Regards
Ian Rogers
(Superblower Registrar)
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Ok couple things
The SUper Blowers were supplied by Ford MotorSport.
Also the Super blower cars had head gasket issues at 6psi boost and definately at 9 psi boost.
Power dyne tells me the kit will require upgraded fuel system and other tuning items.
AK 1440 that blower set up was by AC ? The EFI unit I have never seen here in the USA and the blower has an intercooler which I also have never seen on a SUpercharger .. turbo maybe.
Ian Rogers ..thanks I thinkw e are on the same page ... my info came right from the source ... and would love pics of a Factory supercharger. ronmarl@optonline.net
Thanks to ALl for your help
Ron
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ak1234
I should have read your post more thoroughly. The supercharger piccies are of AK1440 an ex US supplied 1993 MK IV with a 302 efi crate engine from the US. So it is not a SuperBlower as such.
I had the powerdyne supercharger fitted in the UK which was not an easy installation. The replacement crate engine was highly modified and the initial detonation problems were solved by the intercooler. The engine also needed a very much upgraded fuel system. In fact it cost a small fortune to get it set up properly. Not sure if it was worth all the hastle it in the end. However, it really flies.....
ak1440
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Jbottini mentioned Kenny Bell – IMO an excellent alternative. Twin screw positive displacement ‘chargers produce substantially more power from zero revs right up the range, whereas a centrifugal blower only starts to work above about 4,000 rpm - useful if your rev limit is 6,500 – 7,000, but the 5.0L is a relatively low revving engine and needs major mods to hold it together much above 5,300. Either way, full potential won’t be achieved unless aftermarket heads are fitted (the exhaust ports are very restrictive on stock heads) together with free flowing inlet manifold. Also, when swapping heads replace head bolts with studs to avoid gasket failure.
I believe the Kenny Bell kit includes bigger injectors and a second pump to cope with fuel demand, and a programmable chip for the ecu plus all the other bit required.
An alternative using a twin screw is to go down the do-it-yourself route and obtain a second-hand Eaton, as used by Jaguar on the XJR – not quite as efficient as a Kenny Bell – but a lot cheaper. (I just happen to have one I might sell!) Get a tweecer to re-programme the ecu to avoid expensive dyno retune and you’re in business!!!
I had intended supercharging my Brooklands Ace, but in the end was forced to conclude there wasn’t enough clearance under the bonnet - damned stiffener in the way.[:(!][:(!]
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Max,
Yes all of these suggestions basically one is better then the other. My original intention was to keep the motor basically stock .. for driveabilty and originality. But I see thats not really possible. With a Centrifical Supercharger its going to take pulling the motor and upgrading it signifcantly along with all the upgrades that always go along with it. My choice would be 9psi boost.
I guess its killing me to cut up a 9000 mile car ..so I think I;m going to stick to my Pantera project.
Thanks All Ron
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ak1234
Before dismissing the idea check out kelly's website http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/mustang50/mustang50.htm
Yes, to get the best out of any supercharger the heads should be changed. But dumping the stock iron heads, which are pretty crap, is a good investment regardless. I was shocked how poorly turned out the stock heads/inlet/exhaust manifolds were - remaniscent of the stuff UK car makers churned out in the 50's. No wonder Superblowers had gasket problems - the spent gasses couldn't get out!
Incidentally, it's better to change heads etc on a low mileage engine - its when an old engine is disturbed that things start going wrone. My Brooklands had only done 2,600 miles when I converted - it turned an old fashioned "cooking engine" into something a bit more lively.
For bags of grunt right through the rev range you can't beat a twin screw blower. Also removing a Kenny and reverting back to stock isn't a problem - it's a straight bolt on kit.
Max
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quote:
Originally posted by ak1234
Max,
Yes all of these suggestions basically one is better then the other. My original intention was to keep the motor basically stock .. for driveabilty and originality. But I see thats not really possible. With a Centrifical Supercharger its going to take pulling the motor and upgrading it signifcantly along with all the upgrades that always go along with it. My choice would be 9psi boost.
I guess its killing me to cut up a 9000 mile car ..so I think I;m going to stick to my Pantera project.
Thanks All Ron
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I hope that you recieved the images of my Superblower set up and the article direct to your direct e-mail address. If not let me know and I will have another go.
Regards
Ian Rogers
Yes all of these suggestions basically one is better then the other. My original intention was to keep the motor basically stock .. for driveabilty and originality. But I see thats not really possible. With a Centrifical Supercharger its going to take pulling the motor and upgrading it signifcantly along with all the upgrades that always go along with it. My choice would be 9psi boost.
I guess its killing me to cut up a 9000 mile car ..so I think I;m going to stick to my Pantera project.
Thanks All Ron
[/quote]
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Ian,
Yes I recieved the pics and the letter you wrote. I also recieved a email from John Owen explaining the same points. The Super Blower needed additional work for it to be fully utilized on 9psi of boost and some upgrades ..which at this point would require altering and adding after market parts. If I was going to do that I could set up a Small block Ford with Clevland heads and pump out substantial amount of horse power naturally aspired 4V that would make this little AC feel like it was on ICE SKATES ... but for now I thank you all for the info ... my thougts were that the origianl SUPER BLOWER was a thought out and sorted out system... but found out it wasnt.
Thanks ROn
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Ron, how about posting John owens email or letter(scan and attach or retype)? Jim
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Ron
Not 100% familiar with supercharging a V8, but Supercharging a Lotus Twincam in the 1970s with blower up to 6Psi one had to lower CR to under 9:1.
Running at 9Psi one had to reduce the CR to 8:1 otherwise you had head gasket problems, So surely your better off fitting improved heads to start with.
I know Ian Rogers spent a lot of money, time and effort to acheive a reliable, efficient and satisfactory solution to the running of his Superblower. I Thought he did all the research and financing himself.
Was under the impression AC Cars didnt want to know or were incapable of resolving the situation. ( Certain components were incorrectly located in the system so would never have worked, is that not true Ian ??)
Would be very interested to read John Owens (AC Cars Malta) advice. any chance of publishing his / there response.
Ian, Did you solve the continuing problems with or without AC Cars help ( and financial assistance ???)
Keith
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Ok,
First I want to say dont turn this into a pissing match. Because Mr. Owens has always been a first class gentlemen with me. I dont speak for no one or do I publish their words. But the message he conveyed was as follows:
The Supercharger kit was the 6psi kit part Number - M-6066-A50 From Ford Motorsport. brackets needed modification. The 6 psi didn't give much of an improvement and the 9 psi caused a few problems with head gaskets.
In any Supercharger application on a gasoline engine the compression ratio plays a part. In this case you should be able to use a Centrifical unit with stock 9 to 1 ratio. The issue as I put pieces together is the cast iron heads, gaskets, head bolts, and such were bone stock and they bolted on 100 hp and expected it to fly.
Ron
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Hi there,
I have been very interested in this particular thread and felt having read it that I could maybe throw in my 2 pence worth. As some of you may be aware, I have bought ACSB 7020. This was the last of the line of Superblowers that AC made, but it was never finished by AC Cars. I am in the process of finishing the car, which is taking forever!!
However, I have a Ford 5.0 1994 engine. I have researched the fitting of a Supercharger (as my Superblower should have) to it and I am aware that AC Cars used to fit a Powerdyne unit through Ford Motorsports. I have read some positive and some negaitive reviews on that particular supercharger. If my memory serves me correctly, it is internally driven by a kevlar belt, which I read is prone to snapping? There were other reliability problems with them also. I have also looked at the othet market leading brands including Vortech, Paxton (I believe have now been bought out by Vortech?)and ATI Prochargers.
From what I have read, Vortech seems to offer a very good and reliable system. It is highly regarded. It is the one which I will eventually go for.
A couple of things I have read and which must be born in mind and which I would like to pass on are as follows. The Supercharger forces a high volume of air into the combustion chamber resulting in a far more powerful,'power' stroke. The compression ratios also increase. I have therefore stripped my engine down and purchased forged internals to cope with the added power. I have also bought forged dished pistons to reduce the compression ratio. I am aiming for late 7:1 or early 8:1 CR. I have bought new aluminium GT-40 heads which flow far better that the stock iron heads. They also have quite a thick 'deck' to prevent warping and cylinder head sealing problems. This is important because its no good having a supercharger creating a ton more air, if it is restricted by the narrow inlet passages. I have also bought Ford Racing SS exhaust headers, again to improve the flow of gas through the heads.
The stock engine computers aren't really capable of dealing with the new engine parametres created by aftermarket improvements and I have read you'd have to have the computer chipped with I think what is called a Tweecer, although I may be wrong on this. I have also heard of better aftermarket computers such as an Anderson PMS which is very capable of refining the engine parametres. I have also heard of Ford having produced an Extreme Performance Engine Control computer, known as an EPEC. It piggy backs onto the back of your existing engine computer but takes over the control at certain points. This is the system I have bought. I can't comment on its ability yet as my engine isn't yet built.
Another thing is that the stock injectors are only 24lb items. The problem with these are that if your engine decides it needs to squirt a load of petrol into the cylinder for a given mass of air, if your injectors don't have the capacity to meet the demand, it will burn lean and could cause pre-detonation. Ive gone for 30lb injectors to cope with lowish boost levels (6-8 lb)So there is alot to think about when putting a Supercharger onto these engines. The above is a very quick and simplified input but I hope it has been of use to you all.