AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum => Topic started by: rr64 on May 27, 2012, 13:48:25
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Is this a member's car?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Very-Rare-8-X-10-1958-Sebring-AC-Ace-Bristol-/180704464981?pt=US_Racing_Fan_Shop&hash=item2a12d35055
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I assume that the photo was from the 12hr race on 22nd March '58. I wonder why both cars in the photo seem to be No.38. There were 3 other Ace's No.37 (BEX 229): 72 and 39.
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The near Ace does not appear to be race prepared. I'd guess that the "T" is for something like "temporary" allowing the car on the track under the numbers assigned to AC.
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quote:
Originally posted by Jam2
I assume that the photo was from the 12hr race on 22nd March '58. I wonder why both cars in the photo seem to be No.38. There were 3 other Ace's No.37 (BEX 229): 72 and 39.
Nice interesting Black and White Photo.
Ace Bristol number 37 in 1958 Sebring 12 hour was driven by DR Richard Milo in BEX229.
Ace Bristol Number 37 in 1960 Sebring 12 hour could be BEX183...[?][?]
Ace Bristol number 35 in 1960 Sebring 12 hour was driven by Schoeder/Mazzi and could be BEX487.... [?]..[?]
Can any one confirm ID of any of the Ace's raced at Sebring 12hr during late 1950s and early 1960s.[?].
Details, Photos and Photo copy of official race program/s required to complement data in official ACOC Ace Bristol Register..[;)]
Cheers..Thanking you in anticipation.
Keith..[:)]
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Racing ports Cars show 1 AC Ace entered in 1956 (John Dressel) then 3 in 57 with the last one in 1962 (Richard Kingham).
http://www.racingsportscars.com/races/search.html?track=Sebring
John
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Wasn't BEX 183 the Dressel/Pohanka car that crashed badly in the 1957 Venezuelan GP? I have a photo of the crash somewhere, just need time to find it. I am sure it is also in Keith's archive. Not 100% sure about this car's identity but since a few years it is also stated as such in Tony's register.
Jerry
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The entries for 1958 show:
#37 - BEX229 Milo/McClure/Furlong
38 - BEX258 Love/Jackson-Moore/Crowder
39 - UNK Fuller/Tweedale/Briggs/Day
72 - BEX297 Stear/Norris/Harris/Dressel/Woodbury
73 - UNK Casner/Jordan/Campbell
1960 shows 3 factory cars and 1 private entry, #73 driven by O'Sullivan/Proctor/Stevens and with Jack Fernandez listed as entered but did not drive (would this be BEX155?).
The 1960 listing shows photos of the entries.
John
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Jerry.
You are right, BEX183 was the dressel Ace that got hit by Stirling Moss in a Maserati causing it to become airborne hit a tree or lamp standard and split in two.
I too have a photo of Dressel's Ace in two pieces with another Ace or two passing by in the backgound.
Tony Bancroft, Tim Isles, Stephen Phel , Jerry Van Kalleven and I plus various other AC enthusiasts can often marry racing numbers to various Pilots, but cannot ID the Chassis number/s of some of the Aces raced in Period......... Any Info always appreciated, [;)]
John.. (JR Lucke) .
Thank you for the link and info, During your research and ramdom visits to numerous web sites, Can you positively ID any other Aces raced in Period on your side of the Pond .[?] East Coast to West Coast and anywhere in between..[;)].
Cheers... Keith...[:)]..[:)]
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Hi yo'all,
When I spotted the photo I thought it looked a lot like my Ace BEX193 which was shipped to Virginia in 1956. We all dream of racing heritage, but there is something about the NS headlight being higher than the OS one which made me look twice. Subsequently it was owned by A Jackson in 1969, but I don't have any history. As far as the photo goes, having two cars with the same number with one suffixed T, was common as the T Car was denoted "Training" or a spare in case the first failed in qualifying. Andy.
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Andy,
It's interesting to me that you think your car and '38T' may be one and the same. It appears to be fitted with the factory roll over hoop - was your car once so equipped? If your car still has the two flat plates (or signs of them) welded to the horizontal tube in the boot above the rear spring then this could be another clue. If it is your BEX 193 it does look to be in good condition for a '56 car - if it was raced I think maybe it had a cautious driver! But of course it could be straight from the paint shop too.
In answer to rr64's question regarding the second car, car #38, in the absence of any conflicting information I would assume this car to be Bill Love's much campaigned BEX 258 - it certainly looks to have led a hard life. This car is very much a survivor and owned by a Club member.
Tim
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My comment about the "T" car was based on my idea that few Aces were raced with the full size windshield and passenger seat in place.
They did take off the bumpers.
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The Roll Bar looks very similar to the one that was in Ak Miller's Ace that he took to Bonneville and set some land speed records with. Since Ak had stated his car was originally raced at the Sebring in '58, maybe 38T became Ak's car that went to Bonneville. Unfortunately, if the car from the pic became Ak's car, I believe it no longer exists as it was later rebodied as a Devin for Pike's Peak runs where it was identified as a Cobra/Devin.
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/289ace/akcaronly.jpg)
Jay
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Great photograph of Ace Bristol number 38T.
Used for training Practice for the 1958 Sebring 12 hour.
Another picture of the same Ace is to be found in Tony Bancrofts Ace Bristol Racing Book, on page 93. Wearing the same number 38T, same windscreen sticker etc... Has to be the Same Ace!
It was assumed to have been taken at Watkins Glen Ca in 1961,we can now correctly date the photo as having been taken at the 1958 Sebring 12 hour, thanks to the rare 8 by 10 B & W picture that started this thread.
Now..... Can any one ACtualy Identify this Ace ?
Keith .[;)]
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Sebring. I'm spurred on to write this following rr64's link to the '58 Sebring photograph of the Bill Love car and car # '38T'.
Together with Le Mans, the annual Sebring 12 Hours appears to me to have been the highest level of competition that Aces took part in (I'd have to add the 1957 Venezuela GP as well, when six Aces were entered, but this race was unique.)
As is known, Sebring was an annual round of the World Sports Car Championship and run under FIA rules. Aces shared the track with the world's greatest drivers - in no particular order Fangio, Moss, Hawthorn, Behra, Gregory, Bonnier, Von Trips, Collins to mention just a few; you name them and they were there.
That said, it seems to me sitting on this side of the pond that tales (with a few notable exceptions recorded in books by Tony Bancroft and Rinsey Mills) from this great race are few and far between, but perhaps that's because I'm not so well informed.
Anyway, with the aim of stimulating discussion, adding to the subject, producing long forgotten photographs (and perhaps trying to emulate the superb thread run by Louis Monnier on Le Mans), I offer my limited grasp of this race in the hope that those more enlightened than me will be able add to the sum of knowledge that is there already for the benefit of us all.
I believe that Aces were represented in the Sebring 12 hours from 1956 to 1962, but rather than offer my understanding of entries, cars and drivers over these seven years all in one go I'll do it year by year over the next few days.
So, 1956, one car entered, AE 90 (yes, a RHD Ace), racing # 37, entered (and owned?) by Hap Dressel, who went on to run AC Imports of Arlington, Va. There is a good picture of this car in the pits at this link:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Sebring-1956-03-24.html
Co-drivers were down as Bill Woodbury and Frank Pohanka. At the a/m RSC site Frank Pohanka is down as not driving, but I find this a bit strange as Frank co-drove with Hap on a number of occasions.
Contemporary reports suggest that Mr Weller's 'Light Six' never missed a beat, the car only pitting to refresh the vital fluids and coming home a creditable 18th place and 4th in class.
The car exists to this day - here's a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cIOcwB9Rn0
Can anyone add anything?
1957 entries to follow.
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Tim .. ..
Should make a great thread,
If the guys on the otherside of the pond can dig through their family photo Albums, the odd box of photos and racing programms gathering dust in the back of the odd cupboard / draw and in the family archives.
Our US AC owners / enthusiasts and Classic Sports racing enthusiasts, MUST HAVE greater access to material being on the right side of the Pond. Please start digging!!
There should be more info available than of the 24hr Le Mans, so this new thread should hopefully produce even more material than generated in Louis Monniers great thread on "Aces raced at Le Mans 24hr". . [;)]
Knowing Tim's enthusiasm and thoroughness in researching his series of articles "Aces Raced in Venezuela" published in ACtion and his archive material on various Aces raced at Sebring in the mid 1950s through to early 1960s, This thread should run and run,[:p].
If I can add the odd picture or snippet to complement this thread I will.
In the meantime, I look forward to viewing new material and reading how the AC Ace contributed to the History of The Sebring 12 Hr
Keith..[:)]..[:)]
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quote:
Originally posted by shep
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When I spotted the photo I thought it looked a lot like my Ace BEX193 which was shipped to Virginia in 1956..... ...
Have I overlooked something here?
Both cars on the photo are LHD. The register does not mention any conversion from LHD to RHD on BEX193?
What's the clue [?]
Constant
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Sebring 1957. Three cars were entered, all under the banner of 'The AC Car Company'. I'm not certain what that meant - the factory weren't able to provide much sponsorship.
Car #35, chassis BEX 183, was the newly acquired red Ace-Bristol of Hap Dressel as a replacement for the previous season's AC-engined car. Don Cullen and Bill Woodbury were listed as co-drivers, with Ken Richardson and Bob Drake listed as drivers as well but not taking part. (I'm not certain how the system of listed drivers worked - they were often down to drive other cars as well, with Richardson and Drake also entered to drive a TR3.) This car (BEX 183) finished the race in 22nd place and 4th in class - 2 litre TRC Ferraris placed 1st and 2nd in class, so there was fairly stiff opposition! Alas this car was destroyed in November 1957 at the Venezuela GP, with Hap Dressel lucky to escape serious injury.
Car #36 was the Ace-Bristol of Juan Fernandez, Juan Droullers and Lino Fayen. This was a very experienced team. Juan 'Jack' Fernandez imported some 41 Aces and Acecas to Venezuela, and was very active on the national motor racing scene in his Ace-Bristol. Droullers and Fayen were also seasoned AC drivers, and both went on to race more exotic machinery. This car was brought home in 17th place and 3rd in class. I think it possible that this car was BEX 246, a primrose yellow car delivered to Juan Fernandez the same month of the Sebring race. If it was 246 then the car is a survivor for it spent many years in the USA (perhaps it remained in the USA after the Sebring race?) before appearing at a Coys auction in Belgium in 2006.
The third car was #72, BEX 154, and driven by the husband and wife team of John and Evelyn Mull. Both were very active on the SCCA scene - this car is generally attributed as belonging to Evelyn, for John Mull also owned an Ace as well. Unfortunately the car was a DNF, with the problem attributed to the rear axle (half shaft failure?) Maybe someone knows more? I understand this car is housed in a museum somewhere in the USA? Perhaps someone knows the location? For the moment then my understanding is that the car is a survivor, although it would be good to get a fix on it for in addition to its international and SCCA racing history it also happens to be the first Ace-Bristol imported into the USA.
I have some photos of AE 90 and BEX 183 and 246 which I will get help with posting. I do have a picture of the Mulls with their two Aces, but it was not taken at Sebring, so if someone has a picture of car #72 from Sebring '57 it would be good to see it.
As before, any more information, corrections, photos gratefully received.
Many thanks,
Tim
PS Constant, Andy's car has been converted to RHD.
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Here are a few 1956 Sebring pictures of AE 90, posted on Tim's behalf.
Jerry
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/bex316/AC/4418020211_985ff9540d.jpg)
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/bex316/AC/AE901956Sebring12hrHapDressel.jpg)
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/bex316/AC/AE90Sebring56.jpg)
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quote:
Originally posted by tim isles
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PS Constant, Andy's car has been converted to RHD.
thanks for the feedback Tim
Constant
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For and on behalf of Tim, to accompany the above:
Car #35, chassis BEX 183
(https://s5.postimg.cc/agk7v1yx3/BEX183_Sebring.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Car #36, possibly BEX 246
(https://s5.postimg.cc/9ea1ce5s7/BEX246_Sebring57.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://s5.postimg.cc/cxvz29t3b/BEX246_Sebring572.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
and the Mull`s in their Aces, although not at Sebring
(https://s5.postimg.cc/m5o7iysfr/Evelyn_Mull_BEX154.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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the last photo shows the two Aces at Virginia International Raceway in August 1957
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Sebring 1958. It gets a bit more complicated here. I have down that 5 Aces were entered, and that one of them was a class winner. Only four Aces actually took part (the 5th was a reserve entry), and all four finished, coming 15th, 16th, 19th and 22nd O/A. All five entries were attributed to AC Cars Ltd, and I’ve since learnt that the factory would pay for the entries as a means of promoting the marque.
Car #37, chassis BEX 229, was bought new by Dr Richard Milo. The car left the AC factory in December 1956, and whilst Dr Milo does not appear in the results for the1957 SCCA season he, and his wife, took part in a number of races during the 1957 season. For the Sebring race the co-drivers were George McClure and Duncan Furlong (the last mentioned had some experiences racing Aces, having owned from new and raced AEX 93, before exchanging it for BEX 171 which he raced in SCCA events in 1957 and 1958.) At Sebring BEX 229 finished in 19th place O/A and was awarded 1st in class in the GT 2.0 class. This appears strange because all other Aces entered in the race (and as in 1956 and 1957) were entered in the 2.0 Sports class. BEX 229 was competing in this GT 2.0 class with, among others, TR3s fitted with hardtops. However, photographs show the car running in open form, admittedly with the standard windscreen in place rather than a cut down racing screen. There is an aside to this tale in that Dr Milo also owned AE 205, the 1957 Le Mans Ace fitted with a Bristol engine and a modified nose, which was the car he originally entered. There was an accident with the trailer on the way to Sebring, damaging the car, and BEX 229 was substituted as the entry. That said as a modified works racer I would have thought that AE 205 had even less chance of being accepted into the GT class, so I remain unclear why BEX 229 car ran in the 2.0 GT class. Hopefully someone can clarify this? Regarding these cars, BEX 229 is still used in competition today, and AE 205 remains in the USA too.
Car # 38, believed to probably be chassis number BEX 258, was driven into 22nd place and 6th in class by Bill Love, Ray Jackson-Moore and George Crowder. According to the factory records BEX 258 was delivered new to Bill Love and heavily raced by him, but Ray Jackson-Moore worked as an agent for AC cars and so there remains a possibility that a different car could have been used. If it was BEX 258 then the car’s whereabouts are known and it is currently under restoration in England. With regard to the other car in photograph that started this thread, #38T, research continues, help welcome.
Car #39, chassis number unknown, was driven into 16th place and 4th in class by Fred Fuller, Art Tweedale and Tony Briggs. I know nothing of this team or the car. Can anyone add anything?
Car #72, chassis number BEX 297, was the best placed Ace, driven into 15th place and 3rd in (the 2.0 Sports) class by Luke Steer, Mike Norris, and Bob Harris. Interestingly Hap Dressel and Bill Woodbury were also listed, but never drove. The car belonged to Luke Steer – he bought it new – and campaigned it successfully in the 1957 and 1958 SCCA seasons. Tony Bancroft’s register still has Luke Steer as the owner. A decent photograph of this car would be most welcome.
Car #73 was the final entry but it was a reserve and did not race. I note that this car, like # 37, was also entered in the GT 2.0 class. The team consisted of Lloyd Casner who owned BEX 310, Bill Jordan, who owned BEX 264, and Frank Campbell, who owned BEX 263. All three came from Chicago and raced in some SCCA events in 1957 and 1958. Just which car was used would appear to be a difficult call. Of the three cars, only BEX 264 has a recent known owner, and the car is now in Belgium. Again, does anyone have any pictures of the car, whichever one it was, in the pits?
A few photographs will follow.
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Again, for & on behalf of Tim, black & white pics courtesy of Tony Bancroft`s archive:
#37, BEX229:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/5hwpghsjb/BEX229_Sebring58.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
This photo of #37 looks like it was taken from a TV/video clip!
(https://s5.postimg.cc/qesxl6dpj/BEX229_Sebring1958.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
BEX 258 stranded:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/atbm15ovr/BEX258_Sebring.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
and running with the pack!
(https://s5.postimg.cc/7z8gns7av/BEX258.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Unknown Ace #39 in the pits:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/n7ye1i3jb/BEXSebring1958_Fuller_Tweedale_Briggs.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Sebring 1959. The year that an Ace-Bristol won its class at Le Mans. Four cars/teams were entered, again all by AC cars Ltd, but one team did not appear. The American Aces were equally successful, placing 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the GT 2.0 class - which for this year all four teams were now entered, so it seems a rule change had taken place. The event was though marked by a tragedy in one of the teams.
Car # 23 was a factory-prepared lightweight Ace-Bristol, chassis number BE 1055, specially ordered by Lonnie Rix for this Sebring event. His co-drivers were listed as Ed Rahal and George Avent. I point readers towards Rinsey Mills’ superb book ‘AC Six-Cylinder Sports Cars’ for a full account, but the car was destroyed in an accident just prior to the race in which one of the pit crew, Gilbert Johnson, lost his life. The team had a ‘T’ car available. This was Lonnie Rix’s much campaigned Ace-Bristol BEX 257, which had in theory been sold to make way for BE 1055. It was known that Gilbert Johnson would have wished the team to compete, so # 23T was hastily prepared and driven to 24th place and third in the GT 2.0 class. It must have been a very difficult race. BE 1055 was scrapped and the whereabouts of BEX 257 is unknown at the moment.
Car # 24 belonged to Arch Means, an experienced driver who placed 3rd and 4th respectively in the SCCA E Production series in 1958 and 1959. His co-drivers were Charles Kurtz and Ross Wees, both successful SCCA drivers too. The car placed 22nd in the race, which put it 2nd in the GT 2.0 class. The chassis number is unknown to me.
Car # 25, driven by Bobby Burns, Ray Jackson-Moore and James Cook. The experienced Jackson-Moore has been mentioned before but I have no knowledge of Burns or Cook. Whatever, the team proved a successful combination for they brought the car home in 14th place O/A and first in the GT 2.0 class. There is a good photograph of the car (which was light blue in colour with a white interior) in Rinsey Mills’ book, but again, the chassis number is unknown to me.
Car # 81. This was the Bill Love car, assumed again to be his own car BEX 258, entered for a second year, but it did not appear. His co-driver was to be Skip Conklin. When researching past events it is easy to put 2 and 2 together and make 5, but Tony Bancroft recently made me aware of some facts that might be connected. The first was a report in ‘Motor Racing’, a newspaper published in Calver (Culver?) City, California, stating that Gordon Crowder (one of Bill Love’s co-drivers in the 1958 Sebring event), had been involved in a very serious accident with an Ace in November 1958 at Leguna Seca when the car rolled over.
Tony also showed me an article from ‘Autosport’, April 1959, picturing Bill Love at Daytona Speedway sitting in a light coloured Ace with the racing #s ‘81’ clearly visible. So it appears that the car was prepared for the Sebring race and made the trip from his home in California to Florida. Wind forward at least 50 years and restoration has recently started on this car, which has been unused for at least 30 plus years. It is painted a very pale yellow, and has clearly been rolled over in an accident as the main cockpit hoop is bent and has been crudely welded where it had broken. If it was the Love car involved in the November accident then perhaps it was not repaired in time? And perhaps if the car was re-painted then this would be the time after major repairs had been carried out, which might account for why it is pale yellow. But of course there may be no connection, or perhaps the team were placed on the reserve list and did not get a place? The out of sequence racing number suggests they may just have applied late.
So, lots of questions again – pictures, identities of the Means and Burns cars, location of the Lonnie Rix ‘T’ car?
This site gives, among much else, details of the Lonnie Rix team at Sebring:
http://forums.autosport.com/lofiversion/index.php/t96517.html
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#23 'T' car BEX257:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/w2z8c2ac7/BEX257no23_Rix_Rahal_Sebring12_Hr1959.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
#81, Bill Love:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/v0p1tfrhz/scan0008.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Sebring 1960. Four cars entered, of which three finished. All were entered under the ‘AC Cars’ banner in the GT 2.0 class. No repeat of a class win this year, but Aces did place 2nd and 3rd in the GT 2.0 class. (Bristol power did though win this class, in the form of an Arnolt-Bristol, which placed 14th O/A.) I know even less about the cars or their crews so any info welcome. From the pictures I have seen it appears all cars ran the standard windscreen – perhaps this was now a requirement for the GT 2.0 class?
Car #34, chassis number BEX 1147, owned from new and driven by Bob Grossman, together with Mike Rothschild. They brought the car home in 21st O/A and 2nd in the GT 2.0 class. Bob Grossman went on to compete in the 1961 SCCA season (he placed 12th O/A) with this car, which is now in France.
Car # 35, chassis number unknown, driven by Bob Mazzi and Frank Schroeder. The car DNF due to what was described as rear wheel damage. Metallic blue with dark upholstery. Bob Mazzi placed 22nd O/A in his Ace in the 1960 SCCA D Production series
Car # 36, chassis number unknown, fared much better and placed 20th O/A and 2nd in class. Drivers were listed as Bud Hulsey and Harry Washburn, the latter another SCCA driver. The car was red.
Car #77, chassis number unknown, was brought home in 28th place driven by Tony O’Sullivan, Peter Procter (although listed as ‘GB’ I do not believe this was the Peter Procter of Le Mans et al fame), and Jef Stevens. Interestingly Jack Fernandez was a listed driver but never drove – I wonder what the connection was? Car was red with possibly red or beige interior.
Sebring 1961. Three cars entered, all under the ‘AC Cars Ltd’ banner. GT 2.0 class, full windscreens etc. Only two cars started and both failed to finish. Again I know little other than what is recorded in the race results.
Car # 35, driven by Leo May and James Johnson was a DNF due to a heavy accident – I don’t know the circumstances. Chassis number unknown; it was a metallic blue car with beige interior. Pictures show the car as having rolled, with the factory fitted roll over bar deformed just as one would expect the un-braced item to.
Car # 36, driven by Frank Laughton and Robert Bowers. The car DNF but I don’t know why. Chassis number was BEX 426; a red car with grey upholstery. I note Tony O’Sullivan was ‘listed but did not drive’ - he drove car #77 in the 1960 event (which was also red.)
Car # 84 is listed as Did Not Show, which probably means it was a reserve. Drivers were down as Bob Hathaway and Fred Spross. I have no information on this car at all. Bob Hathaway was active in SCCA, placing 16th O/A in the 1960 season in his Ace.
Sebring 1962. Reflecting the fact that the Aces’ heyday was fading and the Cobra era was to follow, there was just one entry, Richard Kingham, who was not apparently sponsored by AC Cars. His co-driver is listed as Bob Kingham. The car was a DNF, with ‘rear axle’ listed as the cause. The chassis number was BEX 1005, and the last known owner is still recorded as Dick Kingham, who owned the car from new. So it sounds as if it has still to be discovered.
A general comment on these last three Sebring events is that it seems a number of the drivers down to compete who do not appear to have been on the SCCA ‘radar’, which one might have expected them to be, given the importance of the race? No doubt they gained their experience in another series. Do these names ring a bell with anyone?
A separate quest for information comes from Tony Bancroft who some years ago was in touch with long time ACOC member and Ace owner Randall Baselt. In the 1990s Randall compiled a register of racing Aces and was extremely well informed. He was a California resident. If anyone knows of contact details for Randall I would welcome them – please just email me directly rather than using the Forum.
So there we are. A very prestigious race for Aces, but with the exception of the Lonnie Rix entry in 1959, AC history has very little on record regarding the exploits of these teams and their cars, the identities of which are in many cases unknown. I would assume there are many more photographs out there somewhere, and lots of tales to be told, for clearly racing at Sebring was quite an adventure. If this very short thread brings no instant response hopefully it will have achieved an increased awareness as to the dearth of information available. If it serves to encourage people to keep an eye out for old photos, a programme etc, or even secures some first-hand accounts from those that participated in some capacity or attended the meetings as a spectator, then it will have been of some use. Please keep looking!
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More photos on behalf of Tim (his text accompanying them), with source credits:
1st one is Sebring '58, the mystery Fuller/Tweedale/Briggs car # 39. Tim noticed from the colour shot we placed of this car that it looks like a 'long boot', which narrows its identity down a bit:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/biuedi29z/sebring56_1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Next one is also Sebring '58, showing car # 37, BEX 229, (Milo/McClure/Furlong) together with car # 72, BEX 297, (Steer/Norris/Harris):
(https://s5.postimg.cc/6wya551bb/Sebring1958_1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
3rd is Sebring 1960, the Hulsey/Washburn car #36. Photo courtesy John E Kelley:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/jbl25gl3r/Hulsey_Washburn60_Sebring.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
4th is Sebring 1960, the Mazzi/Shroeder car #35. Photo courtesy of Dave Nicholas:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/5hwpge5d3/Sebring60_Mazzi.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
5th is Sebring 1961, the damaged May/Johnson car # 35. The photo is attributed to Scott Christie:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/vq7u5rx6f/resized_Image_Handler_1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
6th is Sebring 1962, showing the Kingham car BEX 1005 # 40. This photo is also on the RSC website courtesy of Martin Spetz:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/9r1fimlhz/BEX1005_Sebring62_Kingham.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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From Keith:
Not at Sebring, but this is Evelyn Mull and family (grow-your-own pitcrew?!):
(https://s5.postimg.cc/xjaqtyd6f/BEX154_Evelyn_Mull_No47.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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OK, another handful from the Keith Kollection, again, not from Sebring, but relevant!
Here`s Evelyn Mull in BEX154:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/m5o7iysfr/Evelyn_Mull_BEX154.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Lonnie Rix in BEX257, with Bill Dunno in car 57:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/5hwpgi093/BEX257_Lonnie_Rixno72_Bill_Dunnno57.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Lonnie Rix again in BEX257:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/gu9ay9lsn/BEX257_Lonnie_Rix.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
...and finally for the moment, Bill Love driving BEX258 in 1957:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/b6307dp5z/BEX258_Bill_Love1957.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Oh dear, BEX 258 didn`t get much love after Bill Love!
(http://www.barnfinds.com/sites/barnfinds.com/files/imagecache/large/images/1/1957-ac-bristol-race-car-project-rear.jpg)
(http://www.barnfinds.com/sites/barnfinds.com/files/imagecache/large/images/1/1957-ac-bristol-race-car-project-interior.jpg) (http://"http://www.barnfinds.com/cobra-kin-1958-ac-ace-bristol-roadster/")
Taken from Barn Finds.com (http://www.barnfinds.com/cobra-kin-1958-ac-ace-bristol-roadster/): "This Ace was SCCA raced by Bill Love in the fifties and sixties. The last owner purchased it back in 1974 and it has sat in Texas since then. It looks like somewhere along the line one of the owners attempted to start a restoration by stripping off the paint. The car was originally red with a black interior, but you cant tell by looking at it. The sale includes the car’s original California pink slip. There are no photos of the engine, but Gullwing claims that the engine is correct and that it does turn over. It is missing a few pieces, but it looks complete enough to warrant a full restoration.
It is off Gullwing`s books now, so hopefully is in restoration as we speak!
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A friend of mine just missed out on buying BEX 258 earlier this year, it sold within 24 hrs of appearing on Gullwings website!
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The comments on barnfind.com were all about how overpriced it was @ $89,500...if you factor about the same for restoration(maybe that`s not enough!), you`re stood at $180,000 for a $200k+ car, so someone obviously thinks the sums add up.
Although the sellers said the engine is correct & turns over, where is the gear lever?
Here`s a front end view too:
(http://www.barnfinds.com/sites/barnfinds.com/files/imagecache/large/images/1/1957-ac-bristol-race-car-project.jpg) (http://"http://www.barnfinds.com/cobra-kin-1958-ac-ace-bristol-roadster/")
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BEX258 is a good restoration project especially with the racing history. I saw a file of over twenty pictures from Gullwing and all the parts were present and correct, even a spare cylinder head.
Also, although the car had obviously been stored for a long time, it had not been subjected to the normal V8 conversion with all the attendant modifications.The chassis although covered with suface rust
also appeared straight and unmolested. Al in all I think the price for this car was just about spot on hence the quick sale.
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T is certainly for "Testing" or practice only.
#38 in 1958 was the Love/Jackson Moore that came 22nd.
It's obviously a different Ace from 38T
Cheers
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I see a paragraph about BEX 1147--I used to own this car. I bought it about 1972 and at the time I was told that it was originally purchased from Grossman motors but I had no idea it had racing history. It did have a small windsreen that could replace the stock one and also had a roll bar. The windshield was curved like a Cobra rather than flat like most other Bristols. Here is the real kicker--I sold it for $1900!!!
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Hi Mike & welcome to the forum!
Keith(BEX333) the master archivist came across your old mount at the Le Mans Classic in 2008 and took this photo of the old girl:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/yaht5qjs7/DC3_B6_F8_D-_D37_A-4053-_A44_B-332_DF8993902.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Sorry you sold the Ace when you did, my Dad sold his Cobra in 1973 for £2500, it`s now worth £1.5M+ !!!
Oh well, it`s only money!
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That is the one--I have seen that picture before. I put those rear view mirrors on when I had it since it only had the small one on the dash. It was marooon back then and the registration said it was a 1962 but most likely that was when it was first registered. At that time a potential buyer contacted the AC factory and found out it was made in 1960 and was originally green.I have lots of pictures if anybody is interested. Thanks for posting!!
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Mike.
Welcome to the Forum, Would be interested in a few period pictures of BEX1147 when owned by you in the 1970s.
Could you please email pictures and I will forward to Tony Bancroft the official ACOC Ace Bristol Registrar..[;)]
Pity you were n ot aware of it's earlier racing history, do you by any chance have any other data on history prior to your ownership.[?]
my email : keith dot lessiter at faac dot co dot uk
Cheers for Now
Keith..[:)]
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Mike, it would be great if you could start a BEX1147 thread with photos (instructions HERE (http://"http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=145")) and stories of your time with the the Ace.
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nikbj68</i>
Reposted picture , please scroll down below the following two pictures... .. ;)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/Tim%20Isles%20Sebring%20Ace%20pics/BEX258BillLove1957.jpg)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Oh dear, BEX 258 didn`t get much love after Bill Love!
(http://www.barnfinds.com/sites/barnfinds.com/files/imagecache/large/images/1/1957-ac-bristol-race-car-project-rear.jpg)
(http://www.barnfinds.com/sites/barnfinds.com/files/imagecache/large/images/1/1957-ac-bristol-race-car-project-interior.jpg) (http://"http://www.barnfinds.com/cobra-kin-1958-ac-ace-bristol-roadster/")
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Taken from <u><font color="blue">Barn Finds.com</u></font id="blue"> (http://"http://www.barnfinds.com/cobra-kin-1958-ac-ace-bristol-roadster/"): "<i>This Ace was SCCA raced by Bill Love in the fifties and sixties. The last owner purchased it back in 1974 and it has sat in Texas since then. It looks like somewhere along the line one of the owners attempted to start a restoration by stripping off the paint. The car was originally red with a black interior, but you cant tell by looking at it. The sale includes the car’s original California pink slip. There are no photos of the engine, but Gullwing claims that the engine is correct and that it does turn over. It is missing a few pieces, but it looks complete enough to warrant a full restoration.</i>"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It is off Gullwing`s books now, so hopefully is in restoration as we speak!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<b>Nik</b>
<b>BEX258.. .. To be loved again</b>..[;)]
<font color="green"> Pictured above, <b>BEX258</b> in Period and as recently Bought by a True AC enthusiast, who has owned, restored and maintained various AC's over the years.</font id="green">
<b>Car now in really good hands and serious restoration in progress</b>, priority in maintaining originality where ever posiible..[^].
A future 100 point car that will be used, [;)] As intended when it originally left Thames Ditton in March 1957 heading for sunny California..[:)].
Hopefully regular reports will appear on the Forum.
<b>Keith</b>..[:)]..[:)]
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Regarding BEX 1147 I don't have any other info about the past history before I bought it other than it came from Grossmans. It did have disc brakes and a roll bar at the time and the small "Brooklands" windscreen. When I bought it the engine was not running too well which turned out to be a rotted head gasket. I did the job myself after contacting the AC factory and arranging the purchase of the gasket set. I remember getting the price in pounds and shillings and going to my local bank to get the exchange rate and sent a check. A funny story about when I first brought the car home--It was about 40 miles from my house and I went there to get it with my brother and my girlfriend planning to tow it with my brothers 1957 Mercury with a rope. We could not find any place to attach the rope so we decided I would drive it even though it was not registered or insured. I was able to get it up to about 35 MPH tops and we had to take a few different highways and go over a toll bridge back into Queens. I was going from one highway to the next around the exit ramp that I was not familiar with making a right turn and when I turned the wheel we found out that the seats were not fastened to the floor and not only did my girlfriend come flying into my lap but the drivers door flew open at the same time!! My brother was riding behind us and was cracking up!! We did make it home though!!
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Tim
In response to a recent group email sent to various US ACOC members reference Information on the Team Pellandini Ace Bristol.
I have received the following from:-
Jerry Rosenstock (BEX229)......
.
.
Hi Keith
Sorry, I do not have any information for you. I do have one person, with whom I will do some follow up. If it leads to anything I will get back to you. There are some miscellaneous AC's floating around California. I have had several owners talk to me about theirs , I usually point them to the ACOC. So I really have no solid leads for you.
I read the link and the information. Really very enlightening and worth while reading.
I have very little information about my BEX229 other than the Sebring Class win.
The second owner when he joined the ACOC stated he was a flag worker in the East USA and saw my car
running many times. However I have not been able to substantiate that information. If in your quest, you find some information I would very much appreciate hearing from you. Dr. Richard Milo was the first owner who raced the car, he lived in Ithaca, New York. The second owner/flag man was M.L. Bennett also from Ithaca New York.
Good luck hunting for Pellandini Ace Bristol and History of Aces at Sebring in 1950s/1960s...
Best regards
Jerry Rosenstock..
BEX229
Cheers
Keith ...[:)]..[:)]
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December 93 ACtion extracts posted on Keith's behalf.....
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm274/bryanmo/KL_page3.jpg)
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm274/bryanmo/KL_page4.jpg)
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.
Bryan.
Thank you for posting the letters of Richard Cramer & Frank Schroeder as published in the December 1993 issue of ACtion. Vol 17 # 8 ..[;)]
Hopefully a ACOC member, AC enthusiast or Classic/Historic Sports Car Racing enthusiast reading and following this thread, Knows of
FRANK SCHOEDER or a relative of Franks and has access to Franks archive of period racing photographs and racing data..[:p]..[:)].
(Or can confirm tel number and / or email address so Tim and Jay can follow up in due course..)
To complement this thread on Ace Bristols raced at Sebring with the potential bonus of material relating to other AC Ace Bristols raced during the mid 1950's, late 1950's and early 1960s, throughout the
USA..[;)]
Keith..[:)]
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.
.
Copy of Letter Published in ACtion Vol 14, No2 page 4
January 20th 1964.
Mr Randy Smith (Secretary)
The AC Owners Club Ltd
3630 East 56th Street
Tulsa 35, Oklahoma.
Dear Mr Smith.
Thank you for your letter dated January 1st 1964, regarding AC Owners Club.
My particular AC was one which the factory raced at Sebring in 1958. It has a large gas tank and a 4" filler- the whole bit.
When I first acquired it, I dropped a 327 Chevrolet in it with the chevrolet 4 speed, used the standard ENV and Axles, stepped on the gas very lightly and had
absolutely no problems. At the same time, I can assure you I never punched it until I was way past the wheel spin stage.
My first project was to throw away the lousy steering set up and install rack and pinion from Morris Minor.
Next stage was to throw the front end away and install a standard Ford Fairlane strut type suspension, utilizing drum brakes with a Lincoln aluminium Drum,
11" x 3 1/2". For the rear I installed Corvette Stingray centre section, made steel fabricated hub carriers, using stub axles with permanent lubricated ball bearings,
instead of their mickey mouse taper bearing set up, with .007 to .001 clearances. I made up spicer half shafts using 13-10 U joints all the way.
So far this has proven to be a very rugged chassis, as I have never had any problems.
Now I run the 289 High performance stock engine around town, When I go racing, I use anything from 221 to a 350 cubic inch job, all based on Fairlane blocks.
It depends on how fast I want to go on which engine I use. I have Ellborn Fuel injection which I feel does a very fine job. I use standard 289 cam and kit,
and I do use Chevrolet fuel injection valves throughout in stadard 289 cylinder heads, ported. For compression I use deflector type pistons.
I use standard Chevrolet 4 speed transmission with the short tail.
All in all I find this to be a very enjoyable car.
In one recent trip to Bonniville, I put up an average speed of 100 miles per hour for 780 miles, most of this in Nevada where there are no speed limitations.
Some stretches of road I achieved an overall average of 126 mph. needless to say, I would not have felt very safe with the standard components,
even though my car still tips the beam at 2040pounds, using 50-50 distribution.
I plan to run this car for the Pikes Peak Hill Climb this year (1964) and I am now in the process of dumping the body in favor of a Devin fibreglass,
so about the only thing from AC I will have left will be two pieces os 3" tubing!
I certainly enjoyed your letter, and enjoyred reading your monthly bulletin.
A K Miller
Ford Performance Advisor.
But such tubing, and where are they now ? Ed.
Chassis Number ...[?]
Does any of this Ace exist... [?] , What became of the Body...[?]
Fasinating reading but I'm left speechless....[:0]...[:(]
Keith..[;)]
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I wonder if the Devin featured in #6 here is the car? It has a 427 Ford engine. The seats look like AC items.
I can find several photos in period but nothing describing the car.
http://www.devinspecial.com/devin-specials.html
Additional commentary on his Devins:
http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/RonCummingsAkMiller.html
AK Miller was quite well know in US racing/hot rod circles.
Best wishes for the holidays Keith.
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.
John.
Thank you for a very interesting (new) link.
I emailed Devin Contact ( Kreg Jones) and also emailed Jim the Custodian of " AK Miller Devin" .. Gallantracing@hotmail.com
We wait in anticipation..[;)]
I take this oppotunity to wish you, All ACOC members and contributors to the ACOC Forum
Merry Christmas
and a
Happy, Healthy & Prosperous
2014
Keith..[:)]..[:)]
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..
Bloody Hell, that was quick , I wish all leads were as prompt and positive.[:p]..[:)].
.
.
Keith,
Thanks for the information. I was not aware of that. I'll post it soon. I was in contact with his mechanic once, a while ago. I'll see if I can dig up his info.
I heard that Carol Shelby asked Bill Devin to build him a car and he turned him down. This was pre AC Cobra.
I'll let you know if I can find anything out. Do you have any early pictures of the car?
Thanks,
Kreg Jones
.
.
Interesting that Shelby was turned down by Bill Devin..
Keith..[:)]..[:)]
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Another response from Kreg Jones:-
Keith
I found this:
The fifth car carried the Devin SS body on an AC Ace frame with Frank Kurtis independent front and rear suspension. Yes, Frank was a big fan of independent suspension. The AC was purchased from Sterling Moss after Moss had put a rod through the Bristol block. Ak had been racing the AC with a small block Ford motor close to six months before Shelby had AC build his prototype Cobra. After running the car awhile, Ak mounted the Devin body. Later, Frank Kurtis offered to replace the suspension with a Kurtis design using mostly Ford parts.
Kreg Jones
Sent from my iPhone 5s
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.
Kreg.
Thank you for the new information, I will give Stirling a call this afternoon..[;)].
Cheers
Keith..[:)]
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.
Reply posted on behalf of Kreg
.
<b>Keith</b>
Ak had no idea where his five Devin bodied cars where. Except one car, I think it was the
Miller-Hanson Special red Olds powered car, was flipped by a later owner at a Drag Race strip ??
Ak was a Devin body dealer. Bill Devin came by to visit Ak just before Bill passed away.
One Devin was old into the country of Chile.
The car is Ak Miller's first of five Devin bodied specials. This car was Chevrolet powered.
That's all I have.
<font size="2"><b>Kreg Jones</b></font id="size2">
P.S.
<font color="green">Your question reference ID of 1958 Sebring Ace Bristol.
/ AK Miller Devin, has been posted on the Devin Forum. . </font id="green">
<b>Kreg.</b>
Sent from my iPhone 5s
.
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Keith, I thought somewhere I'd seen a photo of an Ace with a very ugly cone attached to the grill.
This is the Ford powered Ace at Bonneville.
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/competition/pics/bonneville_miller1.jpg
I read somewhere that AK at one point switched to Ford power from Chevy because his employer Ford took a dim view of his racing with their competitor's engines.
John
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.
Keith..
The info I have sent you was cut and pasted from some old emails. This info is from various sources / members and although in the public domain, I prefer you give credit to Devin Enthusiasts in general. (not just Me)
If we found the car and owner I would gladly put them In touch.
"I believe this is the car. This picture is from 64."-Kreg
I found it online. ...
Nik.... can you please post picture on my behalf...thank you
.
Lots of conflicting info on these cars. From research in Hot Rod coverage articles:
1. First car built 1958 with tube frame, 340" Chevy and $295 Devin kit body. 1st place
2. New car for 1959 with Olds engine and similar body. 1st place
3. 1960: same car, 4th place.
4. 1961: same car, 1st place
5. 1962: Same car but with new SS-style Devin body, 406 Ford. 1st place
6. 1963: Same car as 1962, 427 Ford. 1st. Miller also entered an AC Ace with a 289 driven by Dan Morgan. DNF
7. 1964: New car with AC chassis (from Morgan car?). New Devin SS body. 330" sbf engine. 2nd.
8. 1965-66 Same car as 1964 but with 427 Ford. 1st both years.
Corrections? Where are the cars now?
Kreg Jones.
Sent from my iPhone 5s
Kreg & Devin Enthusiasts.
We all love our classic/historic Sports cars especially those with competition /racing History.
In order to confirm and build accurate record of/on individual cars we need to seek and share data whilst it is still available from those who raced in period e.g 1950s and 1960s. Unfortunately many pilots are now either 80/90 years old or no longer with us, plus
the old grey cells can often unintentially distort facts. Then accurate history of our cars is lost forever.[;)].
Any new information on Racing Devins which materialise from this thread will be shared with you and your members.[;)]
With only two small pieces of Ace Chassis left, there is little chance of confirming ID, However maybe some one knows what became of the Aluminium Ace body when AK MIller discarded it for the Devin Fibreglass Body.[?]..[?]
Keith..[:)]
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Keth, There was a time I thought AEX125 may have been Ak's Bonneville car and I did some research into Ak and his Ace. Unfortunately, Ak had passed a year earlier and while I could not talk to him, I did talk to his mechanic Jack Lufkin who was still working in the place that was Ak's old shop. According to Jack, Ak installed the Ford V8 well before Shelby built his first car, and the body change to the Devin occurred 1964 or 1965. Jack was not aware of where the body went, but it definitely no longer in the shop in 2006.
As an FYI, here is a picture of the 427 powered Devin bodied "Cobra" crossing the Pikes Peak finish line in '66. I use the term Devin bodied Cobra since I found many period articles that referred to the car that way.
http://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/motorsports/1966-pikes-peak-hillclimb/
Jay
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Originally posted by AC Ace Bristol: "I believe this is the car. This picture is from 64." I found it online-Kreg . ...
And here is the photo:
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/Devin_zps810dfaad.png) (http://"http://s134.photobucket.com/user/nikbj68/media/Devin_zps810dfaad.png.html")
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Here is a photo of the Ace at Bonneville as referenced in the letter from AK. It is from a 10 page or so article in Rodder's Journal (issue #32). THe article mostly deals with his hot rodding and Pan America road race escapades with his hot rod sports car "El Caballo".
(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc497/jrlucke/AKMillerAce.jpg) (http://s1214.photobucket.com/user/jrlucke/media/AKMillerAce.jpg.html)
I did see (on the Cobra forum?) a comment from a former neighbor kid who recalled seeing 2 Ace's in AK's garage one being the Ace which received the V8 treatment. He also recalled Carol Shelby visiting on various occasions and AK giving Shelby rides in the Ace around the neighborhood. The sight and noise of the car were quite impressive to the neighborhood kids!
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quote:
Originally posted by slotcarone
I see a paragraph about BEX 1147--I used to own this car. I bought it about 1972 and at the time I was told that it was originally purchased from Grossman motors but I had no idea it had racing history. It did have a small windscreen that could replace the stock one and also had a roll bar. The windshield was curved like a Cobra rather than flat like most other Bristols. Here is the real kicker--I sold it for $1900!!!
.
.
Mike.
I received email this evening from Phillipe Laurent (16/02/2015) ACOC Club France member who is the new owner of BEX1147 and is researching it's History which hopefully will include data on Sebring Aces.[;)]
He would like to get in contact with you.
If you are interested can you please confirm your email address..[?] and I will pass it on. In the meantime I will send email request via the ACOC forum...[;)]
Philippe is joining the ACOC so should in the long term hopefully complement this thread and the Ace Bristol Register with new material...[^]
Keith..[:)]
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim A
I'd guess that the "T" is for something like "temporary" allowing the car on the track under the numbers assigned to AC.
I believe the 'T' stood for 'Training' - a designation widely used in Formula 1 and other classes, well into the 1970s, where a second car carried the race car number during 'practice'.
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Here's a great photo from Sebring in 1960 showing Duncan Black driving our very own John Abel's Daimler SP250, chasing down the Ace of Mike Rothschild/Bob Grossman.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/6wya55ogn/image.jpg1_zpsetkokzkm_1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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.
.
Nik
The Photograph is even better when you note, Ace Bristol # 34
(BEX1147) is ahead of the Daimler SP250.. Still a great Picture
one of many From John Abel's Daimler 250 Archive..[^]
BEX1147 was owned and driven by Bob Grossman and co driven by Mike
Rothchild, Finishing 21st Overall and 2nd in 2.0 litre GT class..[;)]
Ace Bristol Register confirms BEX1147 now resides in France.
Keith..
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Posted on behalf of Tim Isles
Further to a series of email with Nik & Keith and numerous visits to collections of period racing photos. Have resulted in new information to complement this thread.[:)]
.
Gentlemen,
Keith pointed this link out to me on the Stanford Collection website. I had not seen the pictures before. One of them shows all four Aces entered lined up for the 1960 event...[;)]
https://revslib.stanford.edu/?f%5Bmarque_ssim%5D%5B%5D=AC&page=2&q=albert+R+bochroch&utf8=%E2%9C%93
.
A very good collection of New Material.... ;)
Tim Isles.
.
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Great picture of BEX 1147. Still had that same exhaust and roll bar when I owned it in 1976.
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quote:
Originally posted by tim isles
Sebring.
Can anyone add anything?
Peter Dechert' and Hap Dressel's personal accounts of the 1956 Sebring were reproduced in ACtions dated August 2007 and May 2008. Dressel's car (#37) was perhaps the final period International race appearance of Weller's light six engine.
See earlier post regarding the 'T' prefix to race entry numbers.
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Hello
Iam Laurent PHILIPPE the owner of BEX 1147, the car is in France ;
Thank you
Very nice picture . I am looking for all nperiod pictures of BEX 1147
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Nice photo of the Daimler and Ace in same Photo, Duncan raced in 1960 and 1961 a lot against the Ac Ace. Laurent if you go to Le Mans Classic, may bring the Daimler down next year.
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Why not , will be very nice to see both cars there .
It depends if I race there with another car ?
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Originally posted by AC Ace Bristol
BEX258.. .. To be loved again...recently Bought by a True AC enthusiast...
Car now in really good hands and serious restoration in progress, priority in maintaining originality where ever posiible..[^].
A future 100 point car that will be used, ;) As intended when it originally left Thames Ditton in March 1957 heading for sunny California..:).
Hopefully regular reports will appear on the Forum.
Keith..:)..:)
Well, how's this for an update?!
(https://s5.postimg.cc/q3bh8af87/image.jpg1_zpsd0eijchs.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://s5.postimg.cc/hl213y0zr/image.jpg2_zpsxajslkww.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
BEX258 now looking stunning in it's original colour, a true credit to the owner who has completed a fabulous restoration on an Ace with so many stories to tell. 8D
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.
.Potential Sebring lead.
Can anyone following this old thread and or living on the West Coast please follow up this lead, (Not passing the buck, easier for someone more
local and in the same time zone... ;)
Found this potential source of information which could yield more information on the Ace Sebring Cars, plus other racing Ace Bristol's in Period.
Extract from " The AC Exchange " Winter 1996/97 .. .. .. Ron Leonard publication
Janos R Wimpffen of "Motorsport Research Group ,LLC is compiling a reference book on the World Sports and GT Championships. He has a list of
specific details needed to complete the AC section of this book. Requests for first names of known AC Drivers, Chassis numbers / color .. photos etc
in the 1958 Sebring race head this list which includes specific information needed on specific on some European and South American races.
Contact: Janos L Wimpffen, 9255 151st Avenue N.E, Redmond, WA<98052
phone 206-869-1831; fax 206 869 1226..
Please note. .. ... Extract copied word for word.
A long shot for sure, as this was origonaly published 20 years ago , But surprising what can materialise from those dusty archives.. ;)
If you don't ask, you don't get. Any additional information on any Ace Bristol racing in period , Appreciated .. :)
Hopefully some AC members and Classic Sports Car Racing enthusiasts follow up this potential lead.
Good Luck and thank you in anticipation.... :)
Keith
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Keith, interestingly he seems to live on Whidbey Island not far from Martin Rudow (Sports Racing Cars books) and within 50 miles or so from me. I'll try to get in touch with him.
John
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.
.
John
Thank you, Much appreciated .. :)
I sent a email to Tim Isles yesterday and he in turn spoke to Tony Bancoft whom confirmed that he furnished Janos with photo graphs, and racing data ,e.g. Copy of Sebring race program & race result sheets back in 1996, When he was researching and co writing Ace Bristol Racing along with John Mclellan.
Any new information on any period racing of Ace Bristol 's in USA would complement the history files of present Custodian's and help update the official ACOC Ace Bristol Register. Especially appreciated by Tim Isles & Tony Bancroft who are continually adding new material to the Ace Bristol Register.
John , Thank you for your kind offer to follow up this lead... ;)
Keith
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Keith,
Here is your West Coast follow-up!
The book Janos was researching was entitled Time and Two Seats.
It is a fantastic book, highly recommended. Unfortunately, it is long out of print.
Many Aces are listed in the book.
Here is a link to Amazon for the book for those interested.
https://www.amazon.com/Time-Seats-Decades-Distance-Racing/dp/0967225205
There are 4 volumes of photographic books that accompany the two volume Time and Two Seats books.
Light reading! :)
Bert
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.
Bert
Thank you for your prompt response, Tim Isles confirms Tony Bancroft has a copy, I will give him a call tomorrow and arrange to beg, borrow or steal
these two volumes.
Seriously I will arrange to view both volumes along with Tim Isles, I am led to believe that majority of the photos relating to Ace Bristol's in these
two volumes were supplied by Tony Bancroft back in 1996 when Janos was compiling racing data in preparaion for publication.
Thank you for the link. ;) and good luck with your Ace Bristol ( BEX239 ) restoration .. :)
Keith
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Keith,
You're welcome!
The interesting thing about Janos is that he is a professional researcher and really knows how to stuff the book full of facts while making a very readable story about each race. The books cover the history of the World Championship for Sports Cars from 1953 until 1992. He is also very good at putting each race into context in regards to the current rules and the state of race car development at the time. There is an excellent forward by Phil Hill if I remember correctly. (my books are stuffed away in another room that I can't get to just now because of a project my wife is doing)
To illustrate how thorough Janos was, I used to work with a fellow who competed at Sebring in 1985 and 1986 with a car of his own design. The car was called an OVS, which were the initials for O'Brien (my friend) and Van Steenburg, his partner, and of course, no one has ever heard of this car. Janos described the car and even had a picture of it in his book. After I showed Larry O'Brien the photo of his car, he went and bought the book the next day!
The body for BEX239 is coming along very slowly, I must attend to that. The nephew of the original owner, Gordon Crowder, came by the house last weekend to view the car for the first time in nearly 60 years. He was impressed that I had progressed to the point I am and he promised to deliver the horns he took off the car when it was wrecked 60 years ago!
Bert