AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => General Forum => Topic started by: Chafford on July 16, 2011, 10:17:54
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Search me! Surely if everyone is honest, it MUST be a 2006 car. Sure the owner could transfer a period registration number, and if he be cheeky enough fit black and silver plates. The danger is that PC Plod can pull him over and make life difficult. 1966...... Never!
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I asked the same question, suggest you contact the Cobra Registrar who provided a comprehensive response to me.
Terry
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From Wikipedia: "From the late 1980s onwards, Carroll Shelby (Shelby Automobiles, Inc.) and associated companies have built what are known in the hobby as "Continuation Cars"; Shelby authorized continuations of the original AC-bodied Shelby Cobra series. Produced in Las Vegas, Nevada, these cars retain the general style and appearance of their original 1960s ancestors, but are fitted with modern amenities. Initially the car everyone wanted in a Continuation was a 427 S/C model which was represented in the CSX4000 series. This was meant to continue where the last 427 S/C production left off, at approximately serial number CSX3560 in the 1960s.
The initial CSX4000 series cars were completed from some suposedly left over 1960's chassis new old stock as well as newly manufactured parts. However, all chassis that left AC's are accounted for in their records and there was not a batch left over! Given the value of the vehicle many "extra" cars have appeared over the years, even some sharing the same chassis number. Gradually as the vintage parts supply ran low, newly constructed frames and body panels were obtained from a variety of suppliers. The production of chassis numbers CSX4001 to CSX4999 took roughly 20 years and many different business relationships to complete."
That is consistent with my recollection as to how the "continuation" series came about. Since they were 1960's vintage chassis they were titled as such.
John
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The car canot be legally registered as a 1966 car in the UK as there was no 'original' (COX 3361) vehicle.
The answer to the original question, as with many questions of vehicle paperwork, is that it's registered in Belgium, which is one up on Panama. What it is registered as I do not know.
It didn't sell.
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The Coy's estimate for this car was £180-200,000 but only reached a best bid of £100,000 probably from a Blenheim angel!
Mileage quoted as 365 actually 436.
Strange how these auction houses continually misrepresent!
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Originally posted by Chafford
Can someone explain to me how this 2006 427 continuation car could be registered as a 1966 car?
Are the manufactures getting away with registering these cars as 1966 cars due to them being built to 1960`s spec cars ?
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See my answer above.
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About 4 years ago on the Lavant Bank at the Goodwood Revival a chap had a Cobra he'd got from Shelby in the States and it was registered as a tax exempt 1966 car though was patently brand new...
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some states in the US have adopted a law that was drafted by SEMA (specialty equipment manufacturers association) SEMA represents the roughly 30 billion dollar aftermarket equipment manufacturers market.
These states have either passed the law in it's entirety or modified it, but essentially it allows a person to title a car in the year it represents: ie a 1932 Ford Deuce hotrod, built in 2011 represents a 1932 car and can therefore be titled as such. The title allows only limited use on the vehicle, just as one would expect from an owner driving his classic on a limited basis.
If the Cobra was obtained in the US, it could be it was already titled here as a 1966 and that the title simply transferred when imported into the UK.
Gus
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quote:
Originally posted by Gus Meyjes
some states in the US have adopted a law that was drafted by SEMA (specialty equipment manufacturers association) SEMA represents the roughly 30 billion dollar aftermarket equipment manufacturers market.
These states have either passed the law in it's entirety or modified it, but essentially it allows a person to title a car in the year it represents: ie a 1932 Ford Deuce hotrod, built in 2011 represents a 1932 car and can therefore be titled as such. The title allows only limited use on the vehicle, just as one would expect from an owner driving his classic on a limited basis.
If the Cobra was obtained in the US, it could be it was already titled here as a 1966 and that the title simply transferred when imported into the UK.
Gus
I believe you mean register (license) the vehicle. The title will most likely read something like 'special construction'. Shelby has to market the new Kobras as component vehicles thus he lists them as 1965 models.
This way the police would know they are looking for something that looks like a '32 Ford instead of a 2008 Ford [;)]
"but essentially it allows a person to REGISTER a car in the year it represents: ie a 1932 Ford Deuce hotrod, built in 2011 represents a 1932 car and can therefore be REGISTERED as such."
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We bought this car from Brooklands Motor Company, and it is indeed a 1966 AC Cobra 427. This car even has FIA papers, and is the last car
built at the Frimley factory. It is a proper AC, and it has a correct british V5. It is not registered in Belgium and it never was
before.
If you have any questions about COX3361, please email me or Steve Gray, so you get correct information about this fantastic machine.
We are real AC enthousiasts, and beside the MkIVs we sold or have in stock, we are really proud to have this 427 in our showroom as well.
Koen Poschet
Albion Motorcars
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Maybe this will throw some light on the European registration of brand new "1960s" registered Cobras - from the "Classic Cars for Sale" site
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page.php/carno/144175
"The car we are proud to offer is a Cobra 427 S/C built by Shelby with a fiberglass body. The engine is a full aluminium Shelby 427 with aluminium heads, forged cranshaft, Holley carbs, that has been dynoed at 500 HP. The gearbox is thevery user-friendly 5-speed Tremec. This car has just been sorted and has never been driven apart from the setup. It is a brand new car available immediately. Why wait two years for your custom built car, when you can have this Cobra now !"As a Shelby, the car is registered as a 1965 with an original VIN, and is delivered with a manufacturer's statement of origin from Shelby, certifying the car is a 1965 model. This is truly unique in the Cobra world, as only the CSX6000s are delivered with a COC, a VIN compliant with the original ones, and can thus be registered in Europe (including France) as 1965 Shelby Cobra. And as a Shelby built Cobra, the car is listed in the Shelby registry.This stunning Cobra is now available in France with its French registration.
So there you have it, a genuine certified 1965 fibreglass cobra!
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RE COX 3361, CLAIMING TO BE A ‘1966 AC Cobra 427’
Period (1962-69) Cobras are exceptionally well documented, both by the ACOC and the SAAC. Both clubs have operated Cobra registers for over 30 years and the information in both registers is consistent, both registrars cooperating very closely.
COX 3361 is not a 1966 AC Cobra 427:
1. Neither the ACOC nor the SAAC record it as a period Cobra.
2. COX 3361 is not recorded in the AC Factory Ledger. (Several copies of AC’s Factory Ledger are in frequent use, and a transcript of the entire Cobra section has been published by Haynes (ISBN 85960 849 3).)
3. In period, AC never issued a ‘COX 3361’ car number for an AC 427 or any other AC vehicle.
4. The vehicle cannot have a ‘correct British V5’ recording it as a 1966 vehicle. If Koen Poschet emails me an image of the car’s V5 (rstainer@radcothouse.co.uk) I will advise him how the V5 does not accord with DVLA requirements.
Robin Stainer
ACOC Thames Ditton Cobra Registrar
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Chafford,
I address Koen Poschets post: “it is indeed a 1966 AC Cobra 427”.
Let him reply to it, rather than introduce material irrelevant to the statement he makes.
Please also desist in posting advertising material on our website.
Non-members who do not exercise restraint may lose the opportunity to participate in the ACOC’s forum.
Robin Stainer
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quote:
Originally posted by rstainer...Please also desist in posting advertising material on our website...
Robin, whilst I agree that advertising one`s own items is 'poor form' and should be reserved for the SMALL ADS (http://"http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/ac_ads.asp") section of the ACOC website and ACtion, it is useful to members(and non members) to have links to items or vehicles posted and discussed, for example suitability of alternative spare parts, or the authenticity or provenance of a vehicle. Also online auction items which may be missed by interested parties.
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MORE DISCUSSION NOT LESS
As a "newcomer" to the marque and potential purchaser of another vehicle it is extremely important to understand the implications of buying the "wrong" AC - a very expensive mistake with almost every machine in the 50k - 100k price range - the information of what constitutes a "CORRECT" chasis or vehicle is not easily gleaned from the chassis data in the Cobra book or even from some of the conflicting comments on this site!
As can be seen from just this one thread - and a prettty straight forward thread at that, one mans legally registered 1966 AC Cobra is another mans kit car - so please lets have more discussion not less on what's going on out there in the real commercial car world.
Mr Strainer please remember that not all Cobra owners have the total factual recall that you have presumably assimilated over many years in the club and for many enthusiasts todays prices completely prohibit purchasing a 1960s Thames Ditton built machine. The temptation to purchase any vehicle that may have the required legal "trade" qualifications is very strong. Such is the power of the marque!
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If you become a member you can access the members section which has all the chassis data from the factory, you can then also contact the respective Registrar
It not a high cost considering the investment you are considering!
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And you can sign up electronically now!!!
Gus
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Which "factory", the "old" one, the "new" one, an "acceptable" one the "other" one? When is a chassis number original or accepted or part of some other register? Why are CRSs acceptable but Mk VIs not? Are the rules always the same or it is just some moving feast?
and PS I am a member.
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Which factory, the "old" one, the "new" one, the "other" place or any that the owners of the trademark choose to produce the brand in? And as for chassis numbers - the Cobra book provides no explanation for the newer sequences or a guide to continuation numbers and please tell me why a Mk IV CRS Cobra is acceptable to the club and a Mk V not?
PS I am a member! [:)]
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Mike,
You are hitting on a point that I've been trying to make in the recent past as well. Whether the powers at be in the ACOC like it or not, history on AC continues as we speak. ACOC can choose to record it or not. I am in favor of recording it, as long as it is done with respect to all matters AC. I have no need for a club that treats certain cars as the ugly step children. I think ACOC would benefit from adopting the approach that SAAC has taken.
I don't quite understand any objection to that within the ACOC, as I don't see how in any way it would detract from the cars that are currently registered.
Gus
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To buy or not to buy? That is the question! If you just won the lottery, that is not a problem because you have all the buying power you need to ensure the car and history are perfect. If your budget is restricted, then you need to buy very wisely, and cross check all the history with the registrar before parting with your hard earned cash. Remember, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is! There is a right price for every model and if you believe you can buy a Thames Ditton Cobra for 100k, then you will be disappointed. Once you find a car which fits your budget, you must ensure you are buying exactly what is described, and that it is recognised by the Club Registrar. If there is any doubt, the risk is all yours! If you can't afford the car of your dreams, then look for a less expensive substitute at a price you can afford, and do all your homework again. That way you will eventually own an appreciating asset. When you win the lottery, you can always go back to plan A.