AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: rsfmotors on February 24, 2011, 19:53:08
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Hi iam new to this forum. I am trying to get value for AK1001 with only 8000 miles on it. We found it in a collection in S Calf (San Diego) Its Black on Black 427 side oiler. You can email me at dluce@rsfm.com or just repley. I will have pictures soon.
DL
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Watch out, the car did not come originally with an fe motor. It came with a small block. As such, being an 80's car, it can't be legally registered in California. Also, an FE motor will not fit the Autocraft without extensive modifications to the firewall/foot-well area. You should inquire as to whom made the modifications. As far as value, it really depends on how the car looks and modifications. Anywhere from $45K to $90-100K depending on condition. I have seen so many cars which were complete basket cases. I think these cars are worth more in England than in the States. If you reside in California you should get a pre-1976 car. Otherwise you will have to deal with the smog issue and this car will definitely not pass. The only way it can be registered is to bolt an engine transmission combo from a Mustang of the same year or newer with all the smog equipment installed, and then go see a referee. Lots of work!. Of course, a few other states are much easier. I have had a few cars over the years that could not pass smog and it was a pain. And it's getting increasingly difficult since every smog station is now connected with the DMV on line and the penalties for cheating have been raised substantially.
Use your head not your heart, watch out!
Good luck!
Emmanuel [:)]
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For only 8000 miles a little bit too much rust under the front section:
(http://photos.ecarlist.com/P0/2g/Ty/WQ/R3/b2/Bt/ur/1j/1r/pA_800.jpg)
click here (http://"http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260744273622&viewitem=") for the complete offer
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It was shipped as a roller to Richard Buxbaum (sans engine) and was brought by Donald Cohn in San Diego. At some stage it had a 427 installed. I would assume it was registered in that form in Calif circa 1982-ish? I guess it's worth what anyone is prepared to pay....
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Looks like the car needs someone to love it. Soap, water and a little paint. Have the car inspected. Look at the rubber bushings for cracks. 427's are hard to come by. It should be a blistering ride! [8D]
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Trevor, impossible, 3 ways to register such a car here in California.
1) As an AC autocraft so it has to comply with all smog regulations at the time the car was built.
2) Using the SB100 rule for special construction cars, (kit cars and hod rods, only 100 cars registered that way per year and it has to look like an original etc. Except that when I tried to register AK02 that way, I was told by DMV that AC Autocraft was a bonified car manufacturer and it did not qualify.
4) Register the car in an easy state as a 1965 Ford, and move to California. Increasingly more difficult. DMV has inspectors going to car shows to catch 1932 and 1965 Fords.
I agree, if the price is right, it could be a great project. Anymore photos?
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It is "Autokraft"...with a "K". And there have been several of these types of cars registered in California. Perhaps not totally legal mind you, but doable.
I personally know of an Autokraft era chassis that was registered in Ca. with a hot 351 back in 1985.
and AK1001 did not come with a small block, it came as a roller. As did all of the "Buxbaum" cars.
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I do appreciate it was never easy to register such anti-social devices in downtown California but it was a little bit 'easier' 25 years ago than today (I do keep up with such things via ClubCobra and various good folk such as Lord Muck of Buffalo) And nobody said that all the registrations were entirely legal! As if....
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Hi guys, my Mk4 was properly registered and it had a 351 Windsor. The problem was that it was so lame that I wanted to re-register it as a 1965 kit car under SB100 to do away with smog. That way I could have built a proper engine and modified the car to look like a MK3. Turned out to be impossible so I sold the car. Sorry about Autokraft, I always do it.
Emmanuel.
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
Hi guys, my Mk4 was properly registered and it had a 351 Windsor. The problem was that it was so lame that I wanted to re-register it as a 1965 kit car under SB100 to do away with smog. That way I could have built a proper engine and modified the car to look like a MK3. Turned out to be impossible so I sold the car. Sorry about Autokraft, I always do it.
Emmanuel.
Yes you do, Em.
Based on your ongoing description of your 428 restoration and your numerous threads denigrating your early Mk IV, it appears that you don’t excel at picking very good cars. You may have been more satisfied with a later production Mk IV rather than the pre-production roller that you constantly rag-on about. Why anyone would ever want to make a Mk IV into a Mk III is beyond me. The Mk IV is amazing simply for having been built and then sold in the US. Besides that, the Mk IV it is a much better car than the Mk III… so get over it and get back to your Frua, there's lots of work to be done! [:)]
Art
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I was not trying to denigrate MKIVs, I was talking about mine which was as you said a pre-production. Art I don't know why you are so sensitive. It's a free world out there but really, don't try to tell me that a MKIV is better than a MKIII or any previous Cobra for that matter, this is silly. Just look at prices and you will see which is more desirable. We have gone there before and I don't want to argue any more. And yes, I was willing to spend an INSANE amount of money to turn it into a MKIII. [:D]
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
I was not trying to denigrate MKIVs, I was talking about mine which was as you said a pre-production. Art I don't know why you are so sensitive. It's a free world out there but really, don't try to tell me that a MKIV is better than a MKIII or any previous Cobra for that matter, this is silly. Just look at prices and you will see which is more desirable. We have gone there before and I don't want to argue any more. And yes, I was willing to spend an INSANE amount of money to turn it into a MKIII. [:D]
Agreed, been there before. I just want to point out that there is a difference between a more valuable car and a better car. And turning a MkIV into a MkIII look-alike does not make a MkIII, nor does it increase its value.
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It just would have made it more fun to drive for me!
E
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Originally posted by Mannybox...don't try to tell me that a MKIV is better than a MKIII or any previous Cobra for that matter...
There`s no denying that the build quality on the (production) MkIV`s was definitely better than anything from Thames Ditton, but sometimes, more is less, eh? We know that true comparison is impossible, as the MkIV is of another time, a bit like comparing Grand Prix cars from now & 1966.
(Lights blue touchpaper... stands well back!)[:D]
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Originally posted by ANF289...I just want to point out that there is a difference between a more valuable car and a better car...
Ditto that. Compare the 427S/C to the AC289, those that have driven both will (usually!) say that the S/B-coilsprung combo is the best of the breed, but the values? EVERYONE wants the 427!
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Originally posted by ANF289...And turning a MkIV into a MkIII look-alike does not make a MkIII, nor does it increase its value...
Agreed, you cannot turn a MkIV into a MkIII, but from what I`ve seen, the conversion to MkIII-style does increase value, although it did lead to a fairly heated debate with a dealer once!
I suggested that his MkIV/III was £20k+ overpriced, putting it at MkIV Lightweight money, which he attempted to justify by showing me where the £50k of conversion went. He even said if I could find a MKIV as good or better for sale for less, that he`d give me the difference! I could find as good, and better, but not for sale! Dammit! [;)]
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quote:
There`s no denying that the build quality on the (production) MkIV`s was definitely better than anything from Thames Ditton, but sometimes, more is less, eh? We know that true comparison is impossible, as the MkIV is of another time, a bit like comparing Grand Prix cars from now & 1966. ...
Agreed, but it’s not only the build quality, it's also the ride and handling, all combining to make a better car. Power can be easily added (and to quote MKIV) to make it go “stupid fast”. I personally think the 289 Sports was the ultimate street version of the MkIII, and the MkIV was/is certainly the new and improved version of that. The stock performance of those two cars are surprisingly similar. The 289 Sports did the ¼ mile in 14.4 @ 102 mph (Motor 10/67) (yeah, slow by today’s standards) whereas the MkIV managed a 13.9 @ 98 mph (Car & Driver 9/88) or 14.09 @ 97.8 mph (Motor Trend 7/87) with a federalized FI 302 and a few hundred extra pounds.
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Agreed, you cannot turn a MkIV into a MkIII, but from what I`ve seen, the conversion to MkIII-style does increase value, although it did lead to a fairly heated debate with a dealer once!
True, but in time all perceived added-value will probably be lost when future buyers are looking for a real MkIV and not a replica MkIII. That said, many of us will probably be dead by then! [:D]
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The lightweight MKIV is basically a MKIII with a small block in it. With the right small block, that should be an awesome car. Unfortunately, never came to the states. Would not pass DOT. Too bad, I would have loved one of those. These days, you can make a small block Ford make just as much power as a big block and for less money. But here in California, that must be in a pre 1976 car.
Emmanuel
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Point of Order - some of the pukka Lightweights did cross the pond and forevermore I shall curse the day I turned down the change to repatriate one from Florida. It was beyond mint! Won't tell you the asking price as I'll only start sobbing uncontrolably again....
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Originally posted by Emmanueld...The lightweight MKIV...never came to the states...
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Originally posted by TLegate...Point of Order - some of the pukka Lightweights did cross the pond...I turned down the chance to repatriate one from Florida. It was beyond mint!...
Another 'AKL' (http://"http://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1308")(although not one of the 'pukka 26'!) that was in Florida but was less than mint has been repatriated by a multiple AC owner & contributor to this forum, and is in the process of righting it`s wrongs and becoming my dream car!
Whilst I hope not all MkIV`s get the MkIII treatment I`m glad this one will; it isn`t a quick, cheap swap-job, and not one that many owners would undertake unless there was more than just aesthetics to consider, IMHO. [:)]
SO. Back to the topic maybe, for a moment... What do we think?
The Lightweight I mentioned above had a Buy-it-Now price of $47.5k 2 summers ago, which at the time I thought was about 1/2 price, even with it`s issues. So, is over $100k a bit much for this MkIV, although it is no.'1001', there is an amount of obvious recommisioning that is neccesary, tidying that is desireable & who-knows-what that may not be apparent from eBay? [?]
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Personally I'd only stump up that kind of folding after a very full inspection and I knew its (true) history, it being a Buxbaum car an' all. Caveat emptor and all that stuff.
Hawk Cars have restored a decidedly dead MkIV (the tree won that argument) to MkIII spec in every sense - interior, new bigger footboxes, a mod to get the drivers seat back as far as possible, etc etc. Many original-type bits and it's now a very nice Cobra, saved from the grave. I don't believe the mods detract from its desirability one bit. But wadda I know?
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Your right, Florida is maybe THE place to register a "non DOT, non smog" car. I remember a few year ago they did not ask for anything there. This is where my Kirkham came from as well. To come back to AK02, I was quoted ball park, $70k by what is probably the best shop in the US for Cobras to turn it into a MKIII, i would have had to supply the engine and tranny. Basically, one start with the chassis and builds a new car. The body is different, foot boxes, fender wells, gas tank, doors, dashboard, etc. I had paid $30K for it and considering how much I got for my Kirkham which was painted by the same shop, I may have made money in the deal if I had done it. The whole registration problem here in California scared me and I did not do it.
Emmanuel
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The main problem with the MKIII handling is the weight of the FE motor. I drove a properly sorted Kirkham with an aluminum big block a few years ago and it went like a dream, even in tight turns. So yes any coil spring car with a small block should handle better than an iron BB. When you look at early Corvettes it's the same thing, the big block is rarer and way more expensive but it handles like a pig. The small block is way more fun to drive. A lot of the Cobra collectors here in Southern California will tell you they enjoy their leaf springs small blocks way more than the MKIII. As far as look, it's also way better looking, to my eyes at least.
Emmanuel
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I've had the 'small block in a coil-spring chassis' discussion with many folk including the Kirkhams, claiming that on any given back country road, the small-block car would be as fast, if not faster. David decided to experiment (as he does) and I think he got my point. However, he is a dedicated 'big-block' kinda guy as nothing (for him) beats the sound and visceral thrill of a 7-litre at full chat. In the UK though, such things are about as useful as an ashtray on a Ducatti. Always thought the 427 lump made a better boat-anchor. And they always win the willy-waving stakes ;-)
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Originally posted by TLegate...427 lump...always win the willy-waving stakes ;-)
Until someone rocks up in a Weineck...
(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200603/2006-weineck-cobra-780-cu_460x0w.jpg)
780cu.in, That`s right, 13 LITRES! And Nitroused to take it to 1300BHP!!![:0][:0][:0]
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Your right! Trevor that's why one must have both!!!!!!!! Nothing like the sound of a big block in the morning!
Emmanuel [:D][:D][:D][:D]
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By the time I got to the bottom of this forum, I had forgotten how it started so off I go.
Here in South Carolina, there is no vehicle inspection. I just hosted a car show this past Saturday and had a couple of hotrods with open headers show up. The engine in my MKIV was removed (in Florida) by the first owner(I am the second owner), modified and replaced. It is entirely smog free. I even had the catalytic converters removed. The problem is the roads are flat on the coast but not as bad as Florida. We do have some mountains upsate. I am hoping to buy a house up there soon. Ya'll are luck in the UK. You can cover the country in a weekend and see all your buddys and attend all the events. Here in the states everything is far away. The Amelia Island Concours is this weekend. It is close at 3 1/2 hours south. You pay way too much for petrol but you have no where to go. Pitiful this country and yours is at war in a country with no oil. What happen to conquer and seize.[}:)]