AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: ak1234 on July 17, 2011, 03:06:41
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On my 1988 MKVI where is the fuel pump located. My car has 9k miles on it and has been sitting for a few years I wne to start it and started and ran no problem ... the next day went to start it and now it jsut cranks ...
Ron
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...... no one knows where the fuel pump is located ? hmmm now if they only had a manual for this car life would be much easier.
Ron
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On later cars the fuel pump is located on a bracket just to the left side of the differential. It is a standard Mustang one. Will e mail a picture to you. Not sure if the same applies to earlier cars?
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that is where it is on most MK IVs while you are there, please change all rubber fuel line pieces>
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Yes! The fuel line on mine was overlong so was just folded in half, restricting the amount of fuel and eventually it just split, pouring fuel out over the exit to Brooklands Motor Circuit and stranding me. A very kind RAC man replaced it for me against the RAC rules on fuel line repairs at the roadside.
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Wow, lucky it did not spray over your exhaust!!!
Gus
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Ok so its an inline under the car near the center differential ..damn after I took the bulkhead behind the seats and trunk carpet off ...
But thank Gentslet me see now if I can get her running and try to enjoy the car after sitting sonce 2005.
Again Thanks
Ron
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Ok so I finally got around to jacking the car up and inspecting the fuel pump ... checked for power and nothing ... with the key ON the pump should have power ....right? Then I refered to the OWNER MANUAL and it doenst mention anything about a ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP ... the wiring diagram also mentions nothing about an electric fuel pump ?
Any help would be greatly apreciated
Ron
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The Superblowers were fitted with a Lucas Pump- Pt. No. FDB700. That same pump was fitted to older Land Rovers as well. Not sure if that same pump was fitted to the Mk4's though.
Below is an image of the pump- not the best, it may help to identify if yours is the same.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/Superarnie/ACSuperblowerPartsPictures1531.jpg)
Regards
Gary
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quote:
Originally posted by ak1234
Ok so I finally got around to jacking the car up and inspecting the fuel pump ... checked for power and nothing ... with the key ON the pump should have power ....right? Then I refered to the OWNER MANUAL and it doenst mention anything about a ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP ... the wiring diagram also mentions nothing about an electric fuel pump ?
Any help would be greatly apreciated
Ron
Ron,
Take left rear wheel off and you will see the electric fuel pump attached to the rear bulk head just right of the C clamp on the exhaust pipe(1st pic). 2nd pic shows close-up of mounting bracket, and 3rd pic shows pump head with wiring.
There are 2 filters on fuel injected cars: a 20 micron Fuel Filter (NAPA 3012) at the tank outlet and a 3-10 micron Fuel filter (NAPA 3097) located opposite from the fuel pump on the passenger side. Clogged filters can stop your pump. Changing them may solve your problem, otherwise the pump may have died.
Fuel Line Flow Diagram: Gas Tank - 2” fuel hose - 20u Fuel filter - 10” fuel hose - copper tube (runs width of bulkhead) - 3” fuel hose - 3-10u Fuel filter - 14” fuel hose - copper tube (runs width of bulkhead) - 12” fuel hose - Fuel Pump - 10” fuel hose - copper tube - Engine.
To change filters:
1)Siphon gas from tank.
2)Clamp hose descending from In-line 20 micron Fuel Filter (NAPA 3012) @ tank outlet, detach hose at copper tube, and drain remaining gas into gas container.
3)Detach fuel hose from 3-10 micron Fuel filter (NAPA 3097) and drain remaining gas into container. (Here's a good point to remove and test pump.)
4)Replace filters and all old hoses [NAPA 4219LC Fuel Hose PCV/EEC 5/16 inch (8 mm)]
5)Refill gas tank.
Note that fuel injected cars use high-pressure hoses downstream from the pump
Art
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/anf289/P1130380.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/anf289/P1130392.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/anf289/FuelPump-378.jpg)
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ANF289
Many thanks ... and thats exactly what I have on my car ... but I;m not sure we have gotten to that point yet.
I do notice in your pictures ...you have a red wire bypassing the plug ?
Quick question? should the pump have power when the key is on ? Is there a fuse or a relay in the fuse panel ? Which relay or fuse operates the pump.
While I;m down here working on this pump .. I;m going to replace some of this rubber hose and clamps .. but what really troubles me is the use of COPPER TUBING.
Anyway before ripping this car part .. I need to trouble shoot the electric ... but the owners manual doesnt show any electric to the fuel pump ... i did notice there is an extra ice cuber relay in the fuse box.
R
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quote:
Originally posted by ak1234
ANF289
Many thanks ... and thats exactly what I have on my car ... but I;m not sure we have gotten to that point yet.
I do notice in your pictures ...you have a red wire bypassing the plug ?
Quick question? should the pump have power when the key is on ? Is there a fuse or a relay in the fuse panel ? Which relay or fuse operates the pump.
While I;m down here working on this pump .. I;m going to replace some of this rubber hose and clamps .. but what really troubles me is the use of COPPER TUBING.
Anyway before ripping this car part .. I need to trouble shoot the electric ... but the owners manual doesnt show any electric to the fuel pump ... i did notice there is an extra ice cuber relay in the fuse box.
R
Ron,
My pump has power when the key is on. However, the previous owner put a TEC3-r engine control system in the car, and I assume that explains the red wire bypassing the plug. Fortunately I haven’t had a reason to explore the wiring.
You are correct, my Owner’s Handbook (like yours)appears to be for an earlier carbureted car, and not a fuel injected 302. The diagram on p. 29 clearly shows an air cleaner for a carburetor. There is no mention of wiring for a fuel pump (I assume the carbureted cars have a mechanical pump). What’s interesting is that the Mk IV Owners Handbook posted at: http://rides.webshots.com/album/31597373CwUCdBYNFd shows a fuel injected engine on p. 29, and refers to a fuel pump (#22), a fuel pump relay (RY1), and a fuel pump fuse (#20, 20A). Apparently the factory was a little late in getting their handbooks up-dated. The copper tubing is a whole different story!
Art
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quote:
Originally posted by ak1234
Ok so I finally got around to jacking the car up and inspecting the fuel pump ... checked for power and nothing ... with the key ON the pump should have power ....right? Then I refered to the OWNER MANUAL and it doenst mention anything about a ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP ... the wiring diagram also mentions nothing about an electric fuel pump ?
Any help would be greatly apreciated
Ron
Hi Ron,
a fuel pump should be driven by a special fuel-pump relay which is triggered by the ignition coil (!). The normal behaviour is that ignition is switched on (not started so far) the pump begins to run and after one or two second the fuel pump is switched off. During engine running the fuel pump is switched on of course.
The idea is that in a case of an accident and if the engine is stopped but the ignition is switched on no fuel is pumped into the hot engine bay.
Nevertheless, this start behaviour (start pumping and stopping if engine is not started) depends on your ignition system. I switched to a MSD 6AL ignition box and the fuel pump relay did start only when the engine was running. After inserting a further MSD sub-box for this special purpose the fuel-pump relay starts and stops again. You can use this signal also for old electrical tachometer.
But I really don't know whether you have a fuel pump relay in your car. In the owners handbook I found a fuel-pump relay in the wiring diagram.
Best regards,
Peter
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Mine was set up on AK1113 so that when key was turned to " on" position fuel pump would pressurize sysyem and stop. Then I turn key to start and all is good. This was the same on CSX3327 as well as it had an electric fuel pump.
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.. looked around the local auto stores and no one has the filters so i ordered on line ... ANF289 or Anyone else ... would you happen to have the Pump Part # ? Also the part # of the little silver relays?
Thanks Again for everyones help.
R
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.... ok so i changed the filters and hoses, but still no luck. What I did find out is there is no #20 fues in the fuse box ..its an inline fusible link ... it comes off the acessory post on the start solenoid. That post never gets power ? Is it supposed to have power when the key is turned ? or jsut when turned to crank ? I did switch around the relay ... but still no sucess.
Is it possible the starter solenoid is bad ?
Ron
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Does any one have the woring diagram for the Fuel Injection version ...possibly in a PDF format or even a TIF file ..
Ron
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On a separate point to your fuel problem. Yes the starter solenoid can give problems. I believe it’s sourced from a Mini and is just not up to the job. I had my one changed for a Mustang unit. It’s also worth checking the quality of the connection from the battery isolator to the solenoid as it looked good on my car, but when the connection was undone there were not many strands of wire making contact.
Another reason for considering a better solenoid is because “if” they go wrong they can force the starter to have continual engagement with the flywheel. This has happened to me and at least one other owner. The first I knew it had happened was upon returning from a drive and smelling and hearing a very hot and unhappy starter motor spinning like crazy.
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Ron, as the car used to start,I assume ; as it has miles on it, it is properly wired. Does the fuel pump pressurize system; by several "clicks or ticks" then stop when turning key to first position? When the key is then turned to start does engine turn over, but not start? Jim
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Jim,
I turn the key and nothing happens, no clicking, no hum from the pump, nothing. I swapped around the relay for the pump its good, I noticed a 20 amp inline fusible link which I think is what refered to in the EFI wiring diagram ... didnt replace it yet ...because it connects to the secondary post on the solenoid which is located in the passenger foot box and that post never seems to have power.... but of course the center post does .. which goes directly to the pos side of the battery. I checked power at the pump when the key is turned..nothing. I'm thinking the starter solenoid is bad ?
Thanks for the help ... Ron
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COBHAM ... thanks for the input ... it think your correct its the solenoid .. I had the same problem on a company vehicle and we changed 2 starters and it turned out to be the battery cable connector was corroded ... I will change both .. thanks Ron
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I do not know if it can be of any help, but here's a thread on a Mustang forum that explains quite well how the pump/relay work:
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=110487&highlight=1986
HTH
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OK ... I know its been a while but I made progress. The ground to the solenoid mounting bolt was loose which prevented the motor from turning over, I replaced the existing LUCAS 4ST 4 terminal solenoid with a std ford part and now the motor turns over but still don't start ..no fuel the pump gets power when I turn the key .. but the pump doesn't engage. So I removed the pump Bosch Part # 9 580 810 006 which seems to cross reference to a 9 580 254 984 ... and now I will go to the Auto Parts store and get the new pump.
Ron
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...... i searched everywhere and cant find the damn pump and solenoid in the states ? Anyone have a source in the US ?
Ron
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Ron, is the pump sending fuel to FI?
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...the pump was seized ... i removed it took it apart and you can see it was in one position for a long time ... so I put it back together and it works ..but I;m not comfortable with re crimping the pump with RFI where it runs at a high pressure ... so a new pump is in order.
Ron
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Best plan!
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... hit a road block the BOSCH pump 9-580-810-006 is not the same diameter as the replacement 9-580-254-984 ... there for dont fit in the bracket mounting ... I have to Call BOSCH tomorrow. I also cant find the GPM and Pressure of the stock pump to compare it to ? Not good Spring is coming.
Ron
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A bit late but maybe helpful, for my last EFI projects I used to order fuel pumps and all needed hardware directly from WALBRO.
Here the sides for intank and inline use: www.walbrofuelpumps.com www.inlinefuelpumps.com/ the dimension for the inlines are found here: http://www.fuel-pumps.net/500.html
Westcott
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The Walbro 255lph pump has recently been fitted to my car. When wrapped in some dense foam it fits into the same mounting as the original pump. Let me know if you would like me to e mail some photos of the installation.
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... the goal was to replace the existing pump with an exact replacement. So with that in mind I checked the specs on a 1988 Ford Mustang 5.0L EFI motor and came up with 95LPH then researched only 52MM diameter pumps which fit in the original bracket195mm long with the correct fittings on each end ... only one BOSCH pump out of the 2 still made cross references correctly. I just couldnt come to terms with altering the existing mount. They did a great job silencing it from noise and vibration ... unlike the other Fords in the USA ... but it all work out well. The route of the failure was the gasoline sitting in the pumps since 2006. I guess now the gas goes bad after a short period of time.