AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Mk IV, Superblower, CRS and other Continuation Cars Forum => Topic started by: AK1131 on February 16, 2007, 17:06:23
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[8)]Please advise on this car. The dealer told me it had a CSX number.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-Cobra-1977-Mark-IV-289-COBRA-by-AutoKraft-AC_W0QQitemZ270087757691QQihZ017QQcategoryZ6472QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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AK1131, it is likely to be a fake, it is registered as 6F07C347401 which is not an AC number, while Angliss made some Kit cars in the 70's, who is to know? the CSX number if any is definitely not genuine, otherwise the car would be registered under it! Most States DMV have become wise on CSX scams. Stay away! Maybe well below 100K if the car is very nice with all original bits, but consider it as a kit car! and watch out with E-Bay, someone once listed my AC 428 for sale using pictures he had retrieved on the internet! Needless to say, I had a little fun with him.
Emmanuel
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As posted previously...
The VIN is for a 1966 MUSTANG with a 2 barrel 289! This is a very strange situation, Angliss did not make cars in 1977, the VIN is for a 1966. I have seen cars imported using a "donor" VIN and title (1967 Ford rebodied/restored as XXX) but this is dicey at best. While Autokraft may have built this car I would want to see some documentaion as well as pictures/tracings of the VIN plate. Buyer beware...that said a nice 289 original spec car should be worth the low 100's.
Rick
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Edited by - Mark IV on 08 February 2007 18:12:21
ne before....
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Thanks
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmanueld
...watch out with E-Bay, someone once listed my AC 428 for sale using pictures he had retrieved on the internet! Needless to say, I had a little fun with him.
Emmanuel
What did you do? I think I`d be tempted to get a friend to bid against me up to like $1M so he gets hit with eBay sellers` fees, they would go after him pretty hot then, but can you be a non-paying bidder on your own car? I doubt it![:o)][:o)]
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This is actually my car you are talking about. It is 100% not a fake car. It was built by Brian Angliss and Richard Buxbaum in November of 1977. It is not and was never presented as being a Shelby car. When we got the car, it had a CSX vin plate in it but it was removed and the other vin plate was installed. It is for a Ford Cobra but that is the title the car currently has along with it. The car does not have an AC title or vin plate in it. If you have any doubts, feel free to come and inspect the car. We have nothing to hide. It was also previously owned by Bill Jacobs and Dana Mecum
Jimmy Singer
214-893-7812
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Is it still for sale ?
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jimmydfw,
The car may be a genny Angliss/Autokraft car BUT the VIN tag is a problem. It is for a Mustang, not a "Ford Cobra". The only "Ford Cobras" were a Fairlane model in 1969/70 or the SVT Mustang of the 90s/2003. I fail to see how the previous owners change the validity of the VIN. That Elvis owned a Pantera does not make it a GT40!
You have a nice car but it was probably imported using a trick that was popular in the 70s and 80s, send over a VIN tag from a 60's non-emission required cars and attach it to a new build that is then imported as a "rebuilt/rebodied" version of the VINed vehicle. I have seen this done with a Safir GT40 that was given a 1965 Mustang VIN tag and imported as a "1965 Mustang rebuilt/rebodied to GT40 specification" While of questionable legality, this worked.
I would lay off the "Ford Cobra" angle and sell the car for what it is, a very nice Autokraft built 289.
Just my 2 cents...
Rick
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My 2 cents of analysis:
it is advertised as a Mark IV: this it is definitely not!!
Can our chassis specialists have a view of the pics and express their opinion on the correctnes of the chassis as a Mk II or even possibly an Ace?
This would still not solve the VIN n° issue.
http://images.ecarlist.com/cgi-bin/viewall.pl?dir=995_5089#01.jpg
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Same opinion: definitely not a MK IV. The chassis looks like a MKII but the price would be much to cheap for a MKII.
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I tell you what, it looks like a very well put together machine.
Is it just me, or does the chassis plate look like it`s covered in protective film? The stampings are a bit odd, and no engine number? So does that mean that the 'removed' plate has been re-instated? Not having access to a SAAC registry, could someone who has look up the history of CSX2277? Was Brian Angliss scratch building Cobras in `77 or could this have been a rebuild? To tell the difference between a MkII and an Ace is fairly easy, being as this has a steering rack, unless of course the steering was upgraded during a rebuild. How else could we tell? measure the wall thickness of the Ladder rails?
Interesting.
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Brian was capable of building complete cars by 1977 (see Motor Sport, June 1975) and had made both 427s and 289s by then. He could also supply bodies to other people as well and I would not be surprised if at least one had been shipped to the USA. I have no reason to assume this is anything other than an 'Angliss' car, delivered to Buxbaum to finish in the USA. Naturally this would not qualify to use a CSX vin plate, so if it did have one, it would be advisable to remove it prior to selling the car, for obvious reasons.
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Some time ago I ask someone at SAAC about the CSX number given to me. I got blasted. I was told that number belonged to a car in California and SAAC really wanted to know who was using the number. I did not reply. I was simple trying to help.
If the car was represented with a better story and more true facts it would probably sell. Is Brian Angliss still around?
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Brian is retired to New Zealand and stays out of the automotive scene as I understand.
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I still have this car if anyone is interested. www.straightlineautomotivegroup.com jimmy 877-242-2369 ext.702
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmydfw
I still have this car if anyone is interested. www.straightlineautomotivegroup.com jimmy 877-242-2369 ext.702
Hi Jimmy. Not meaning to be overly picky, but NO original Cobras were supplied with inline 6 cylinder engines, they arrived with an empty engine bay, Brian Angliss` Autokraft was never a 'sister company' to AC,your car is not a MkIV by any stretch of the imagination, and from the pictures I see it still bears an AC chassis plate(which although partially obscured appears to be a 'Thames Ditton' one), which if manufactured in 1977, it shouldn`t have, as Autokraft wasn`t granted use of the name at that time. Can you say what chassis number appears on the plate?
(http://images.ecarlist.com/photos/995_5089/640/27.jpg) (http://"http://images.ecarlist.com/cgi-bin/viewall.pl?dir=995_5089#30.jpg")
(Click on the pic to go to a full gallery)
Other than that, I still say it`s a beautiful car. [:)]
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmydfw
This is actually my car you are talking about. It is 100% not a fake car. It was built by Brian Angliss and Richard Buxbaum in November of 1977. It is not and was never presented as being a Shelby car. When we got the car, it had a CSX vin plate in it but it was removed and the other vin plate was installed. It is for a Ford Cobra but that is the title the car currently has along with it. The car does not have an AC title or vin plate in it. If you have any doubts, feel free to come and inspect the car. We have nothing to hide. It was also previously owned by Bill Jacobs and Dana Mecum
Jimmy Singer
From what I can see that definatly look s like an AC vin plate
214-893-7812
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From the photo's ( and couldn't find the vin plate pic's) this is probably a 289 chassis, with a rack and pinion conversion. BA was certainly cabable of doing this in '77...the ? is ...did he? Looks like a nice car all the same. Value is a tough call...eyes of the beholder and all.
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quote:
Originally posted by jbottini
...couldn't find the vin plate pic's...
Jim, look on top of the footbox, obscured by the air cleaner,
You can clearly see a corner of the Chassis plate reading: "AC CAR..."
and just about make out the "THAMES..." in the next line down, despite as Aaron pointed out, that Jimmy states:quote:
JimmyDFW"...The car does not have an AC title or vin plate in it...
[?]
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you are correct I see it, but BA did not (as I understand it) have a "license" from AC in '77. Perhaps, as he was the most respected AC repairer/restorer, he created this car from a AC 289 collision and it ended up as it did. None the less, there is probably a good story here and this should become a hot topic for SAAC, i.e. is it or is it not a Cobra when was the original built , was it a COB or CSX and what is the standing..Whee who, I'll order pies and pints and watch this one.