AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Vintage, PVT & 2 Litre Forum => Topic started by: Jam2 on October 25, 2015, 04:04:19
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http://www.prewarcar.com/classifieds/ad186722.html
This must be a very rare car.
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You’re right, a very rare car indeed. I think only three of these Fivet-engined cars are in complete condition (a couple more still survive with serious parts, like the correct engine, missing). Interestingly, three survivors are in New Zealand, and this car has been owned by the Salmson family for 100 years!
This is a unique opportunity to buy a true Edwardian AC, and I hope that it’s soon back on the road again. I wonder how much it is?
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Here's a couple of further known survivors:
(http://www.seabirding.co.uk/images/1913acfivetengine.jpg)
(http://www.seabirding.co.uk/images/1914AC.JPG)
The second car, in NZ, shown here also:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/terryhollis/6855631958
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Is the grey car the one once owned by Bernard Garrett and Stan Moyce. I was talking to Stan the other week and he was saying his car was grey and wondered if it was still around. Does anyone know?
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Apparently it is his old car. Where is it now?
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The grey car, LL6864, was found by Jethro Crabb, who was well-known in veteran car circles, on a farm in Wiltshire. Here’s a photo of the car, as found and being recovered. It was an amazing restoration to bring it to the condition shown in the earlier photo above. I know the car went to Sweden in the 1980’s. I don’t know its whereabouts now, but maybe the relevant registrar could answer?
For interest, a second photo below shows a period shot of a 10hp Fivet-engined AC (behind it is a Spyker omnibus)
(http://www.seabirding.co.uk/images/P1100849bSmall.JPG)
(http://www.seabirding.co.uk/images/SpijkerOmnibusAndAC10hpcarSmall.jpg)
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Thanks for the update and photos (Clive?).
Out of interest, I asked the NZ seller if he had a selling price. He is the grandson of the original owner. He said he was seeking offers and that the highest he had received was £10,500.
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That offer is an insult. I've sent him an email and have circulated the advert to some who could seriously be interested. I hope he doesn't get ripped-off and that this car goes to someone who will appreciate its rarity and historic value.
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Old Crock, I do agree with your comments, I would have thought £20k plus, the history of the car (bought new by the vendors grandfather and restored by the vendors father in the 1990's) is written up in the NZ journal Beaded Wheels March 1998. It had obviously got into a bit of a state and been off the road for many years prior to the restoration, but how many cars have remained with the family for over 100 years.
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I've spoken to a highly regarded motoring historian, who’s specialised field is veteran and Edwardian cars, and he confirms this car to be worth a lot more than that offer. Due to its rarity there are no earlier sales on which to base a current valuation but both he, and I, think it’s got to be upwards from mid-£20k. For those interested in the period there is potential here for a very nice Edwardian car. Maybe the low offer is from a dealer with a customer in mind?
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quote:
Originally posted by BE774
Is the grey car the one once owned by Bernard Garrett and Stan Moyce. I was talking to Stan the other week and he was saying his car was grey and wondered if it was still around. Does anyone know?
For interest, further to the note about the grey car, LL6864, and Jethro Crabb finding the car on a Wiltshire farm, I found an article in the gazette of the Veteran Car Club from the early '60's. It's copied below and I hope you can read it (you may have to download to enlarge?)
(http://www.seabirding.co.uk/images/Crabb1small.JPG)
(http://www.seabirding.co.uk/images/Crabb2Small.JPG)
(http://www.seabirding.co.uk/images/Crabb3Small.JPG)
Note the final sentence in the article 'The AC as restored. What a nice little car'
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As stated by BE774, the owner has had an offer of GBP10500, however they are interested as to what the market sees as it's value
Below restoration article written by sellers father in the NZVCC magazine
Transport would be buyers responsibility
Car has only had light use since restoration
Is presently on display at the Yaldhurst Transport Museum, near Christchursh
It is in good running condition
Radiator drained and pistons oiled for storage
Body and chassis in good condition - see article
Comes with various gearbox and clutch parts
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/uuky0atf23xjm6p/P1.png?dl=0)(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/00hsf8doq63fon2/P2.png?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/d2ukuzp3ga2f0eo/P3.png?dl=0)
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob.Hendriks
As stated by BE774, the owner has had an offer of GBP10500, however they are interested as to what the market sees as it's value
The owner, in this way, will not get ‘what the market sees as a value’ for two reasons:
(1) The last one of these to change hands was more than 30 years ago so there is no current market value
(2) The person who can pay the most will not play his cards, his maximum bid, with an 'open auction' like this. I spoke to two people, both contacted the owner, and both were told of the £10500 offer, so they’re considering simply upping that low offer (who wouldn't?) – that may be the best result for the buyer, not the seller.
If there isn't a realistic bid I would suggest the owner puts this car into a specialist auction, one where veteran/Edwardian car buyers will be in abundance in the audience (and there are such auctions).
Here's that photo of the car (it would look even better with its brass lamps mounted).
(http://www.seabirding.co.uk/images/ACNZ2.JPG)
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Is it more important that the car gets top dollar or that it finds an owner that will cherish it?
Some people love cars, some people like to own cars as things. The two are different. If it fetches a fabulous price I would bet it won't see the light of day.
To many cars in collections nowadays and not enough actually owned by people that care.
Just a thought.
:-)
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quote:
Originally posted by BE774
I asked the NZ seller if he had a selling price...the highest he had received was £10,500.
quote:
Originally posted by Old Crock
That offer is an insult.
I'm told, on good authority, that the owner is still considering a recent offer, from the UK, of £21,500. (Additional costs, obviously involved, to ship the car, NZ to UK of £2000+)
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Lovely....and now back in the UK
(http://www.seabirding.co.uk/images/0026-33-NI_Small.JPG)
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quote:
Originally posted by Jam2
http://www.prewarcar.com/classifieds/ad186722.html
This must be a very rare car.
It is brilliant to see a thread on these very rare cars, the first four-wheeled A-Cs (discounting the Weller).
Marketed as the A-C Model Ten, the earliest known reports were in April 1913. The 10hp Fivet engine was a four-cylinder monoblock watercooled design of 1096cc. The first cars had a central gearbox and worm back axle. LL6864 features this arrangement. The main frame of the chassis was formed from a single length of channel-section steel - the first example of Weller's patent no 2534. The characteristic taper at the front gave a good turning circle. Steering was rack and pinion!
(http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x380/jospr/LL6864%20Steering%20Rack%20Reduced%20More.jpg)
By October 1913 the car had been heavily revised. Changes included a strengthened rear axle incorporating the gearbox. Later, a 12hp model and different body styles were offered. For the 12hp model, the 1327cc Fivet engine had a bore and stroke of 65mm x 100mm. Now - there is another story line!
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Now for sale in the UK at £32750.
Click link for more information:
http://www.prewarcar.com/classifieds/ad198609.html
P.S. Four prewar AC's for sale on the above site at the moment, including the above and a 1937 16/70, 1937 16/80 Competition Sports and a 1927 AC Six.
http://www.prewarcar.com/classifieds/by-make/ac.html
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Pic, below, lifted from a posting above. Couldn't help but notice similarity to a certain politician....of the Labour party!
(http://www.seabirding.co.uk/images/Lifted_000.JPG)