AC Owners Club Forum

AC Owners Club Forum => Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum => Topic started by: tim isles on October 28, 2011, 11:14:43

Title: AE 65
Post by: tim isles on October 28, 2011, 11:14:43: For those that missed it, a very tidy looking Ace crossed the block at R&M's Battersea auction on Wednesday. I think it may have been a late entry to the sale.

   http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=LF11&CarID=r237&fc=0

   From the photos the car looks to be in very nice original condition. It's still got its original rare UMC engine, as well as all the early features like the different over riders, the 'Monza' fuel cap, a boot lock that needs to be opened with a T key, single round tail lights (OK, these are slightly larger than the originals, but they were almost impossible to see), reflectors on the boot, glove box without a lid, and for the real purist, inner front wings built using a radiused curve as opposed to the crease used on later cars!

   It has some competition history, and a certain entry for the modern MM, should the owner wish to go down that route. Incidentally this a factor that sees a lot of interest in early AC-engined Aces at the moment. I'm told it sold, but have not been able to confirm the figure.
Title: AE 65
Post by: ANTOINE PRUNET on October 29, 2011, 00:16:27: Tim,
   The Ace was indeed a late entry, in replacement to an Alfa Romeo 1900 Zagato with some issues to be solved.
   For this reason the AC (which is officially reported as sold for £125.000 all incl.) does not appear in the catalogue. but pictures might be be appreciated here.
   Thanks for your contribution.
Title: AE 65
Post by: tim isles on October 29, 2011, 14:54:29: Thank you Antoine. I'll get some help with uploading the pictures from the catalogue and hopefully they will appear shortly.
Title: AE 65
Post by: Bill P on October 29, 2011, 16:59:03: Some pictures from RM Auctions website which I shall withdraw if there are copyright problems
   (http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5287/ae65a.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/ae65a.jpg/)

   (http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7666/ae65b.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/196/ae65b.jpg/)

   Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Title: AE 65
Post by: nikbj68 on October 30, 2011, 00:47:05: A couple more from Tim of AE 65:

   (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/AC%20Ace%20AE%2065/LF11_r237_03.jpg)

   (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/AC%20Ace%20AE%2065/LF11_r237_04.jpg)

   (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/AC%20Ace%20AE%2065/LF11_r237_09.jpg)

   And finally, looking quite incongruous against that backdrop:

   (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q113/nikbj68/AC%20Ace%20AE%2065/LF11_r237_13.jpg)
Title: AE 65
Post by: ANTOINE PRUNET on November 01, 2011, 17:55:53: Thank you so much Tim and nikbj68.
   Very attractive presentation IMHO.
   Isn't £125,000 a record price for a non-Bristol Ace ?
   Cheers
Title: AE 65
Post by: Robin A Woolmer on November 01, 2011, 20:16:01: They will get even more expensive when the AC engine cars go past the Britol cars! am looking forward to it.

Robin
Title: AE 65
Post by: jrlucke on November 04, 2011, 02:33:01: Currently showing on Classic Driver at Houtkamp Collection in Amsterdam for $240k US.

http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/find/4100_results.asp?sorderby=dtSubmitDate&fc=13&action=simple%5Fsearch&lmanufacturer=%2A&next=4100%5Fresults%2Easp&bsubmit=true&lmostrecent=200&lCarID=1836749
Title: AE 65
Post by: tim isles on November 04, 2011, 08:04:43: Antoine, sorry for late reply, no, not a record but they are not getting cheaper. It appears the Houtkamp collection value it higher.
Title: AE 65
Post by: ANTOINE PRUNET on November 04, 2011, 11:53:23: Hi Tim,
   As far as I know AE65 was SOLD £125k by RM on Oct. 26.
   Yes Houtkamp is ASKING for more but only asking.
   So in my opinion £125k is still a record price PAID so far for an Ace. Of course I refer to auction sales only.
   Incidentally was Houtkamp (who is mute on the serial nr.) the final and succesful bidder at RM's?
   Cheers,
   Antoine
Title: AE 65
Post by: Gus Meyjes on November 04, 2011, 12:00:32: What an incredibly pretty looking car. The colors are fantastic, in my opinion. I wish I had a trip to the homeland planned in the next month, as I usually do. I would go check it out.

Gus
Title: AE 65
Post by: tim isles on November 04, 2011, 12:39:02: Hi Antoine,

   Auction, yes, possibly, although AEX 138 sold a couple of years ago (R&M again) for I think $193K. At that time the £/$ rate was not as high as it is today so on conversion it worked out at around £135K. But these are vagaries of the exchange rates so difficult to compare. Whatever, it was another lovely car.
   I do not know who was the final bidder as I only got to hear about the car from someone who attended the auction. I'd guess that Houtkamp will not have it for long.
   Tim
Title: AE 65
Post by: ANTOINE PRUNET on November 04, 2011, 18:38:29: Hi Tim,

    In euros, AEX138 at RM/Phoenix (21 Jan 201) made 136,675 € (was 192,500 $) vs 143,640 € (was 125,000 £) for AE65 at RM/London (26 Oct. 2011).
   Vagaries of the exchange rates yes. But with a slight edge for AE65 not even taking into consideration the fact that Lhd cars usually command rather lower prices than Rhd ones, IMO.
   This also confirm your saying: "they are not getting cheaper"... Bonsoir,
   Antoine
Title: AE 65
Post by: bex316 on November 04, 2011, 22:12:00: Gus,

   In fact I will check it out next Saturday. I made an appointment with Houtkamp today.
   So far I have only sold them a car once but never bought from them [;)]
   Hope it is still around by that time!

   Jerry
Title: AE 65
Post by: Jim A on November 05, 2011, 20:05:31: Darn this dyslexia! The note says LHD, but the car says RHD.
Title: AE 65
Post by: AEX 31 on November 13, 2011, 08:47:11: Does anybody know if this car actually had the single round tail lights from new?

   It seems that some earlier cars have the rectangular tail lights, AE 64 and AE 61 have these if I'm not mistaken.

   It would be interesting to find out when the change was made, or if there was an inconsistency from AC's side?

   This is the first time I've managed to log in to the forum, I'm based in Sweden and I'm the proud owner of AEX 31 since 12 years!

   Regards

   Jonas
Title: AE 65
Post by: bex316 on November 13, 2011, 13:07:27: Hello and welcome Jonas,

   It might be there was no fixed changeover point, i.e. no specific chassis number. The change could have taken place more or less gradually which happened ofter.
   On the other hand, some early Aces might have been converted to the later rectangular lights.
   Wouldn't the shape of the hole in the body be different on a round taillight car? This would be round I suppose?
   I don't think any cars with reactangular lights would have been converted "back" to the earlier round lights, unlike the other way round.
   I had planned to go and see AE 65 so I could probably find out more about its details but the seller didn't have time to see me this weekend and in the meantime the car seems to have been sold already.
   I hope I can still view it this coming week but I have my doubts.
   Surely Tim Isles can tell you more about this subject.

   Jerry
Title: AE 65
Post by: AEX 31 on November 13, 2011, 15:01:00: Hi Jerry,

   And thanks for your reply. I would expect that you are right about this. However if there is anybody else out there with any info (or period photographs!) about this it would be interesting to hear.

   If you do see the car it would be interesting to hear if there are
   any traces of any previous rectangular rear lights.

   Thanks.

   Jonas
Title: AE 65
Post by: tim isles on November 14, 2011, 09:50:40: Jonas,

   Following up on Jerry's point, it's my belief this car is quite possibly, numerically, the last one fitted with the round tail lights; this despite the fact that some earlier (by chassis number) cars were fitted with the rectangular items. This came about because AE 65 was ex-works in January 1955, whereas AE/AEX 55-64 all left the factory at least two months later, and I know that some of these had the later lights.

   Like Jerry, I believe the same goes for all the other changes - long boot to short boot, optional discs, chrome on brass radiator grill to alloy etc. It appears the changes took place by date, not chassis number, and as above, this is because the cars did not leave the factory in strict chassis number order. To illustrate this point it's worth noting that the last cars to leave the factory in 1957 (20 December) were AEX 221 and BEX 389. Despite the difference in the chassis numbers, both cars would have been finished to the same specification and, for instance, the optional disc brakes could have been fitted to both cars.
   Tim
Title: AE 65
Post by: AEX 31 on November 15, 2011, 07:07:28: Tim,

   Thanks for the very interesting information. Do you know if any list revealing the actual delivery dates of the different chassis numbers have ever been published?

   Regards

   Jonas
Title: AE 65
Post by: tim isles on November 15, 2011, 08:01:48: No, not delivery dates, only ex-factory dates. Some cars went direct to owners, other were kept in showrooms until sold. Tim
Title: AE 65
Post by: ACOCArch on November 15, 2011, 10:08:01: quote:
Originally posted by tim isles

No, not delivery dates, only ex-factory dates. Some cars went direct to owners, other were kept in showrooms until sold. Tim



   Further to Tim's response, for some cars the Factory Ledger includes an invoice number and a second date, which it is believed was taken as the start of the guarantee period. This could be the date the car was taken by the first owner.

   Unfortunately, for AE65 this information was lost in the copying process.