AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => Ace, Aceca & Greyhound Forum => Topic started by: shep on February 09, 2007, 19:51:30
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I have been asked whether Ace Bristols raced in the 50s and early 60s with rack and pinion steering and/or tuned exhaust manifolds?
The FIA homologation papers only show Bishop Cam steering and the standard exhaust manifold. However the papers were not drawn up until 1963, long after the peak of the Ace's competitive career.
The original Tojeiro prototype had a rack as did (I believe) the works Le Mans prototype now owned by Barrie Bird. As cars did not need FIA Papers in those days, there may have been various racing mods which were not officially recorded but used at the time.
Does anyone with a good memory remember what went on?
All the best, Andy.
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Andy,
The first owner of my Ace Bristol (raced in SCCA 1957) did not change the bishop cam, but did change the exhaust, he had a four branch manifold fitted with a straight out the side exhaust system. Was very loud when running, never worried in the 50’s.
The first owner who raced the Ace in the SCCA said the following to me: “Bristol stated that a straight through exhaust could exit exactly as the standard exhaust or under the door. The first option seemed like a no brainer so we left the muffler off put a Racket Buster on the tail pipe for road use.”
Not sure if this helps?
John.
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Thanks John, I think this is the start of a long search, but knowing how racers are always looking for any advantage however tiny, someone is bound to have raced with rack and pinion and a tubular manifold (headers). Using our newfound network of friends maybe it will be possible to find a couple of documented examples to show to the FIA. Engine bay photos of Ace Bristols racing in the 50s would be a major help if anyone has their own archive.
Cheers, Andy.
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Andy,
Let me have a look around, will see what I can find. Does it matter if it is UK or USA, assume not!
John.
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quote:
Originally posted by shep
Thanks John, I think this is the start of a long search, but knowing how racers are always looking for any advantage however tiny, someone is bound to have raced with rack and pinion and a tubular manifold (headers). Using our newfound network of friends maybe it will be possible to find a couple of documented examples to show to the FIA. Engine bay photos of Ace Bristols racing in the 50s would be a major help if anyone has their own archive.
Cheers, Andy.
I presume you`ve checked with Tony Bancroft, I know he has pics of 5BPG (BE212) from the 50`s & early 60`s, also fairly specific listings of it`s modifications.
Nik.
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I just got a steering rack and pinion conversion from Ben Yates. Check the article in the member's section of this website. It was designed with John Tojeiro himself. Maybe he has some info for you.
Gus
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Just been thinking, how do the FIA homologation papers relate to engine change. My Ace use to have a bristol engine [which cracked many years ago], I'm currently putting a hot Zephyr engine into the car [bristol are becoming hard and very expensive]. My man purpose is hill climbs, but I assume certain events (e.g. Le Mans Classic, etc) would want the full papers and correct engine. Does any information exist at summary level to what events require what? [smaller than the blue book / FIA]. Anyway, just thought you guys may have a view?
John.
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I see that some of you are speaking about PIA homologation. I try to get some information about filling demand for FIA registration for an AC Bristol 1959. Is it done by some of you who could give me a copy of his? Many thanks
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Panguo, In the UK I believe we have to apply to the Motor Sports Association for the forms to have our cars inspected in order to gain FIA papers. The rules have changed over the last few years and the basic approval requires that the cars are identical to those raced in period but do not have to prove they have continuous history or were manufactured at that time.
The next step up is to qualify for the FIA papers which can only be issued to cars with history back to the period when the cars were originally manufactured.
I am sure the same thing happens in Belgium. I'm no expert and am going through the process with my Ace Bristol at the moment. Good luck! Andy.
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Andy,
Out of interest, how difficult is it getting the FIA papers today? I'm currently planning on going back to hill climbing [not so big on FIA stuff, other than Saftey]. I might at some point go into track racing but not really my seen at the moment. Just would be interested in knowing what your experience has been, from the thread they seem to be getting very specific?
John.
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Andy
Just a thought, Chris Lawrence raced Aces with great success, he did various modifications e.g. Single 4" leaf springs etc etc... might just be worth envestigating.
In nthe meantime I will dig out a few contacts of some Americans who raced Aces in the Fifties / sixties. in The NorthWest Chapter of the SCCA. Like you I am still trying to get pics and confirmation of the racing History of BEX 333 which was raced in Seattle area from 1957 through to 1964.
BEX333 wore three different licence plate numbers from 1957 to 2000, the number plates relevant to 1950s 60s were :- ARZ913 and LLM106 My Ace Bristol was initially White but during its racing History was painted a Orange red colour, it suffered many front and rear end damage. It was fitted with roll hoop and the front back plates were open up fitted with chicken wire to allow better ventilation whilst racin, great in the dry bloody leathal in the wet!
A Al Doyan worked on my Ace plus Raced his own Ace during the same period.
Will touch base with you over next couple of weeks...... in the meantime If any one has any info on Racig Aces in the Fifties and sixties there are a fair few ACOC Ace owners trying to piece together esarly history and specification.... please share the spoils.. Many of the Guys racing in the Fifties are now in the prime age of 80 plus years... Enjoy! !
Keith L Lessiter
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Keith,
I have a number of pictures of my Ac Ace Bristol from the SCCA in 1957 (including other ace's), let me know you email address and I will email them. I'm also talking to the SCCA guys and getting some info.
My car has had a couple of bad crashes and the first owner sent me some great pictures. The good news each person walked away!!!.
Thanks
John.
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quote:
Originally posted by hawk289
...My car has had a couple of bad crashes and the first owner sent me some great pictures. The good news each person walked away!!!.
....John.
How many of them FLEW away though? [8D]
(http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/500/Ace_Crash.jpg)
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Is anyone actually having success getting anything from SCCA? I've been trying to get early info on BEX450 for a long time, with nary a response (I have the history since 1980).
By the way, one of the period exhaust options was the factory "LeMans"manifold. Rather than 1.5 in downtubes it had 1.75, and the 2 sections were merged at the bottom with one collected outlet. Usually used with a side exhaust.
Lee
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Andy
My Ace Bristol (BEX 375) was raced from 1959 to 1963 with a tuned exhaust. It has the "LeMans" exhaust with six 1.375 to two 1.75 to one 2", a short muffler and the side exhaust. I have period racing pictures, trophies, dash plaques and entrant lists. My father raced the car so I can confirm this is a period manifold.
For people looking for SCCA racing pictures, I got a few from Richard Pelatowski in Florida. He was a photographer in the early 60's and went to SCCA races. He was selling off his negatives to finance retirement. His address was 211 N.W. Jefferson Circle, St. Petersburg, FL 33702. His e-mail was RPELL@AOL.COM. I haven't talked to him in years. He could be a source for some pictures of Aces.
Peter Stanwicks
BEX 375
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Note that a "tuned" exhaust normally suggests equal length runners from each cylinder to the collector.
THe AC "LeMans" exhaust is configured like the street version, ie the outer cylinders have longer tubes than the inner ones prior to the downtubes. It is not tuned in the classic sense.
I've never actually seen a tuned header on a Bristol motor, and would be really interested in a pic if someone has one.
Lee
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We're confusing equal length and "tuned" exhaust.
Equal length is just as described; all the runners are equal length. For practical purposes, the LeMans exhaust is equal length as the runners are with 4% of each other. In essentially straight pipe, this length difference creates negligble difference in flow resistance.
Tuned exhaust was the holy grail of engine builders. The idea was to built exhaust gas velocity and momentum down stream to help scavenge the cylinders. If it worked at all, it was only good at the tuned engine speed. Lower speeds did not produce the scavenging effect and higher speeds just produced more flow resistance.
The period racing exhaust could more accurately be decribed as "practically equal length, possibly tuned LeMans exhaust"